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[Banjo64]

It is in a case of proving irrationality.

It’s already been pointed out ITT that there’s a strict application of the judicial review standard of “irrationality.”

Many of you are pointing to the fact that the EU has similar concerns around cloud and saying that kills the chance of appeal. But then turn around and say other regulators decisions have no bearing on the CMA's appeal process.

That’s not me dawg.

I'm not saying there's hope for a successful appeal, I personally think that ABK will bounce out with their $3B come July.

Agreed.

 

[TheGodfather07]

It is in a case of proving irrationality.

Many of you are pointing to the fact that the EU has similar concerns around cloud and saying that kills the chance of appeal. But then turn around and say other regulators decisions have no bearing on the CMA's appeal process.

I'm not saying there's hope for a successful appeal, I personally think that ABK will bounce out with their $3B come July.

But there are avenues Microsoft can take if ABK decides to extend and see the appeal process through. Barring a bomb shell illegality accusation, arguing irrationality is Microsoft's best chance at winning their appeal. EU having the same concerns around cloud and FTC suing to block lessens the chance at a successful appeal. But if the US courts decide a block isn't appropriate and every other regulator decides that no concessions or behavioral remedies are sufficient, that's something Microsoft can use to say the severity of CMA's remedy is irrational.

the CMA's concerns were totally valid and not at all irrational. Microsoft barely have a leg to stand on and no amount of paid shills will change that.

 

[Nothing1234]

The CMA think the 10 year deals handed out like candy by Microsoft are not iron clad and contain what I guess are exit clauses. Is that irrational?

 

[demigod]

Isn’t Jez an American?

 

[Nothing1234]

Isn’t Jez an American?

British living in Germany.

 

[Banjo64]

British living in Germany

Worst British export since James Cordon. Sorry Deutschland.

 

[Ogbert]

No it's not. If I want someone to represent me in Court or at the Police Station I'd hire a Solicitor. (UK)

A solicitor is a lawyer. The term is used interchangeably. A barrister is the UK term for the legal advocate who represents an individual in court. Just to make things nice and clear, solicitors can take a series of short qualifications to act as ‘solicitor advocates’, which allows them to present items in court as well (usually small claims stuff).

So it comes down to convention. You tend to find that ‘high street’ legal professionals, who work on probate, conveyancing and contract work refer to themselves as solicitors. If you work in a bigger company on litigation and larger deals, it’s lawyer.

Topher - that bloke will help you draft the necessary agreement to sell or lease a large block of flats.

 

[Edmund]

Lmao what is our boy doing tagging Rishi Sunak on twitter?

 

[Nothing1234]

Lmao what is our boy doing tagging Rishi Sunak on twitter?

Absolute headcase.

 

[Heisenberg007]

To avoid further confusion:

• Solicit -- offer one's or someone else's services as a prostitute.
• Solicitor -- a member of the legal profession qualified to deal with conveyancing, the drawing up of wills, and other legal matters.
• Solicitittytator -- a person who finds solace in titties.

 

[Ronin_7]

Microsoft will be acquiring Activision Blizzard in late July to early August.

Can't acquire based on UK laws while acquisition is blocked or awaiting CAT trial to complete + further decision from CMA (Next Summer probably).

 

[PaintTinJr]

Lmao what is our boy doing tagging Rishi Sunak on twitter?

When I watched that, it was like the attempt on M scene in 007, when she thought it was hyperbole that Spectre had a man everywhere - including the room.

/edit

The questions asked by the MP in the blue suit had no bearing on the CMA "steer process" as they were all redundant based on their legislative duties of the CMA he should already be knowledgeable about, and the only beneficiary of answers to those questions - suspiciously - would be Microsoft, raising major concerns - for viewers like myself - of them being "cash for questions", which for anyone in the US unfamiliar with UK lobbying restrictions is serious misconduct for an MP, resulting in them being removed as an MP and potentially being charged in a criminal court as it is deemed corruption.

IMHO Senjutsusage should rather be concerned that no one explains the video in his tweet, the inappropriate context of those questions by that MP to anyone on opposition benches for them to report the issue to the leader of the house for investigation to cause the government more problems. Astroturfing could get a lot of exposure in the UK if an MP lost their seat for this blocked deal.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Can't acquire based on UK laws while acquisition is blocked or awaiting CAT trial to complete + further decision from CMA (Next Summer probably).

"Wait till next year." (for the acquisition)

 

[Astray]

Just curious, if Starfield comes out and is amazing, would you view that as a success for Phil/Xbox? Or would you say Phil/Xbox had nothing to do with Starfield being a great game?

I genuinely think that if Starfield was amazing, Phil wouldn't be making the comments he's making about it never moving the console shares.

He's putting in the excuses in advance.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I genuinely think that if Starfield was amazing, Phil wouldn't be making the comments he's making about it never moving the console shares.

He's putting in the excuses in advance.

This is actually a very valid point. And there are several pieces of evidence that point to this theory being true:

• The last showing wasn't great. The scope and vision look great, but the visuals, animations, bugs, and combat give Redfall vibes.
• Phil said that they couldn't help Arkane as much but did help Starfield because "Starfield was early on in production." So does this mean that Redfall had more development time than Starfield?
• Jason Schreier reported last year that Bethesda devs defined Starfield's state as "Cyberpunk-ish."

Or perhaps he has been putting Series X in the servers for xCloud (in anticipation for ABK), and that's why he knows that Series X won't sell as much even after Starfield because there won't be many available.

 

[Astray]

This is actually a very valid point. And there are several pieces of evidence that point to this theory being true:

• The last showing wasn't great. The scope and vision look great, but the visuals, animations, bugs, and combat give Redfall vibes.
• Phil said that they couldn't help Arkane as much but did help Starfield because "Starfield was early on in production." So does this mean that Redfall had more development time than Starfield?
• Jason Schreier reported last year that Bethesda devs defined Starfield's state as "Cyberpunk-ish."

Or perhaps he has been putting Series X in the servers for xCloud (in anticipation for ABK), and that's why he knows that Series X won't sell as much even after Starfield because there won't be many available.

I just think that if this was a great game he would be talking it up, it's basic marketing really.

The fact that he never actually talked up his biggest game of 2023 during that whole interview speaks volumes to me about how he actually perceives it.

 

[freefornow]

And once again Jez makes me put away my Lifetime Green Rat Club membership card in the drawer.
Sigh!

 

[Heisenberg007]

I just think that if this was a great game he would be talking it up, it's basic marketing really.

The fact that he never actually talked up his biggest game of 2023 during that whole interview speaks volumes to me about how he actually perceives it.

Do you think they will delay it?

Starfield was just rated. That's only a few months for full-on optimization and fixing bugs.

On the other hand, Final Fantasy XVI has been in optimization and bug-fixing for nearly 6 months now. And Starfield will have many more intricate systems than Final Fantasy XVI and, therefore, increased probability of bugs.

After Redfall, will Phil Spencer want to release another buggy game at launch, just a few months later?

 

[IllegalLemon]

On a fundamental level, MS isn't a media company. They have never created anything unique nor do they know how. They are fundamentally not a creative company, from day 1 of the company's founding, they were either copying or licensing someone else's creation. This is true of the original MS-DOS all the way to today's MS products.

Sony started out as a consumer electronics company but were famous for creating many innovative and iconic products. The first portable music player can be attributed to Sony, as the original Walkman. This invention revolutionized how people consume music, and the today commonplace idea of listening to your headphones instead of blasting music for everyone to hear can be directly traced back to the Walkman. They were instrumental in developing the original CD as well as all the other important physical media format. They also acquired movie and TV studios, and managed them reasonably well over the decades while gaining competence in mass media creation, and of course eventually launched the first Playstation and then spent decades learning how to create the mass media known as video games.

On a fundamental level, Sony has gained competence at creative disciplines and media production, something that MS has never done because quite frankly MS never needed to. MS is primarily a company which maintains several critical monopoly products which are essential for the world's computers functioning. There's no need to invent, create, or innovate when it comes to things like Windows, Office, and Azure. Just keep doing the same thing they have been doing for decades and keep the money spigots well maintained. This is anathema to something like video games where you must constantly be inventing, creating, and innovating to bring new experiences to gamers who are media consumers.

I don't disagree with your reasoning. But I do however believe that constantly playing it safe with regards to the products they already have isn't always going to work in their favour. Sometimes innovation can be a good thing in any space or industry. Purchasing Start-ups by making false promises of a better future to the employees and then moving to shut them down because they supposedly didn't work with your philosophy or vision is not an excuse. Why purchase them and fuck over their independence in the first place? Microsoft can be creative sometimes, but they lack the drive and motivation to turn that creativity into something meaningful.

Sony got where they are in the music and movie industry through humble beginnings, just like everyone else. Today, their audio production products and movie mastering equipment are heavily praised and sought after by producers. Does that mean that they haven't made their fair share of mistakes and mishaps? Absolutely not. But they got where they got through steadfast dedication and unyielding motivation.

Did they not make acquisitions and purchases of their own, related to startups with novel ideas and creative concepts? Of course not, every big company does that. But at least the purchases that they made, stuck around for relatively long periods of time, enough to see the fruits of their labour and creative ideas materialise, most of those acquisitions are still around today and better than ever. And yes much like Microsoft, Sony also shut down a fair bit of the start-ups and studios they bought, albeit a much smaller number compared to Microsoft, who seems to be hunting mostly for the patents, trademarks and registered IP's of their purchases, than the actual talent.

Microsoft has the creativity, they just lack sufficient drive and motivation to make it happen. Being lazy and using only wealth and power to make things happen won't always work in their favour and they've been able to do most of the things they do because of extremely lax & loose regulations in their territory, a thing even the UK is trying to avoid, by strengthening their regulatory & merger laws to prevent big tech companies from having their way by flexing their infinite war chest to do so.

 

[harry mason 1989]

He feel so embarrassed to be British
Cuz the cma blocked a video game deal
These people man

 

[KungFucius]

I genuinely think that if Starfield was amazing, Phil wouldn't be making the comments he's making about it never moving the console shares.

He's putting in the excuses in advance.

Are you kidding me? Fanboy glasses smear reality I guess. He made a comment about market share not shifting do to a big release. Doesn't that make sense by itself without having to attach some bizarre secret meaning to it about him not having confidence in the game? Big releases have never shifted things dramatically, they create a little bump for the small fraction of the market buying the system because of it.

 

[Bernardougf]

FTC (for now) blocked the deal, the fact that the decision is going do court dosent change this, if the court overrules FTC the court will have approved the deal and not FTC ... if FTC had approved there would not be a court case and the deal would be automatically aproved in the US (correct me if Im wrong in this assumption).

So as of now 2 of the 4 BIG/NEEDED regulators effectively blocked the deal and 01 approved with remedies.

Other small insignificant regulators who MS/ABK DONT give a fuck to even mention on (outside twitter posts by lulu) on their agrrement should not be mentioned as a "support case" either IMO.

 

[Nothing1234]

I don't disagree with your reasoning. But I do however believe that constantly playing it safe with regards to the products they already have isn't always going to work in their favour. Sometimes innovation can be a good thing in any space or industry. Purchasing Start-ups by making false promises of a better future to the employees and then moving to shut them down because they supposedly didn't work with your philosophy or vision is not an excuse. Why purchase them and fuck over their independence in the first place? Microsoft can be creative sometimes, but they lack the drive and motivation to turn that creativity into something meaningful.

Sony got where they are in the music and movie industry through humble beginnings, just like everyone else. Today, their audio production products and movie mastering equipment are heavily praised and sought after by producers. Does that mean that they haven't made their fair share of mistakes and mishaps? Absolutely not. But they got where they got through steadfast dedication and unyielding motivation.

Did they not make acquisitions and purchases of their own, related to startups with novel ideas and creative concepts? Of course not, every big company does that. But at least the purchases that they made, stuck around for relatively long periods of time, enough to see the fruits of their labour and creative ideas materialise, most of those acquisitions are still around today and better than ever. And yes much like Microsoft, Sony also shut down a fair bit of the start-ups and studios they bought, albeit a much smaller number compared to Microsoft, who seems to be hunting mostly for the patents, trademarks and registered IP's of their purchases, than the actual talent.

Microsoft has the creativity, they just lack sufficient drive and motivation to make it happen. Being lazy and using only wealth and power to make things happen won't always work in their favour and they've been able to do most of the things they do because of extremely lax & loose regulations in their territory, a thing even the UK is trying to avoid, by strengthening their regulatory & merger laws to prevent big tech companies from having their way by flexing their infinite war chest to have their way.

Fumbles with GTA3, Spider Man(or a Marvel game of their choice) and Genshin Impact has me looking at them sideways. It’s like they cannot pick a future pop culture success.

 

[Bernardougf]

I just think that if this was a great game he would be talking it up, it's basic marketing really.

The fact that he never actually talked up his biggest game of 2023 during that whole interview speaks volumes to me about how he actually perceives it.

Or maybe phil spencer is so out of touch with gaming reality that he thought Redfall was a banger and Starfield is a piece of shit ... soooo.. theres hopium in the air

 

[harry mason 1989]

FTC (for now) blocked the deal, the fact that the decision is going do court dosent change this, if the court overrules FTC the court will have approved the deal and not FTC ... if FTC had approved there would not be a court case and the deal would be automatically aproved in the US (correct me if Im wrong in this assumption).

So as of now 2 of the 4 BIG/NEEDED regulators effectively blocked the deal and 01 approved with remedies.

Other small insignificant regulators who MS/ABK DONT give a fuck to even mention on (outside twitter posts by lulu) on their agrrement should not be mentioned as a "support case" either IMO.

I still think China will block the deal imo

 

[Bernoulli]

it's over, there is no appeal on the math because the CMA covered themselves with this, their conclusion is not based on numbers but on a lot of arguments juste like the EC

We recognise that market share data may not be particularly informative to
assess relative strength in this market. Cloud gaming services remain in their
infancy and, as such, static measures of market share are unlikely to
accurately reflect the relative strengths of different cloud gaming services
providers. We also note that cloud gaming service providers may face some
degree of competition from out-of-market constraints, such as from PCs and
consoles. These constraints are not captured within our market share data,
meaning that market shares may understate the constraints on cloud gaming
providers. We therefore treat our market share estimates for cloud gaming
services as indicative only and interpret them alongside qualitative evidence
on the competitive landscape.

 

[Bernoulli]

I still think China will block the deal imo

No China needs AI and cloud computing they will approve just for those they don't care about gaming
And even if China blocks the same folks here will say it's all part of the plan and Microsoft will leave the UK, China and the US

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/26/mic...edance-collaborate-on-ai-project-kuberay.html

 

[Heisenberg007]

I still think China will block the deal imo

I hope so. But I don't think they will. Xbox has 0 presence there -- in consoles and cloud. It'll be a tough argument to block the acquisition there.

 

[Elios83]

I hope so. But I don't think they will. Xbox has 0 presence there -- in consoles and cloud. It'll be a tough argument to block the acquisition there.

In China it's all political.
If they see the acquisition as a threat for the expansion of their own gaming companies and certain companies like Netease lobby against Activision they could block.
If they see the opportunity to keep a good relationship with Microsoft as a positive for their interests or to get some big investements in return they'll approve.

 

[Astray]

Are you kidding me? Fanboy glasses smear reality I guess. He made a comment about market share not shifting do to a big release. Doesn't that make sense by itself without having to attach some bizarre secret meaning to it about him not having confidence in the game? Big releases have never shifted things dramatically, they create a little bump for the small fraction of the market buying the system because of it.

Wtf is fanboyish about what I said? How can one be a fan or anti-fan of something that hasn't been released yet?

Big releases have historically shifted console units in the gaming space, look at the impact of GOW Ragnarok for example. So the idea that a 11/10 Starfield won't shift units is simply wrong.

 

[noise36]

it's over, there is no appeal on the math because the CMA covered themselves with this, their conclusion is not based on numbers but on a lot of arguments juste like the EC

They literally manufactured a cloud gaming market that isnt really the cloud gaming market then used their fantasy to kill a deal that has little to do with cloud gaming.

The size of the market is wrong, the value of the market is wrong, the participants of the market are wrong, their predictions of the future of the market are wrong.

You are right though this deal is likely dead, CMA has no real checks and balances. ABK/MS only hope would be a political intervention, which is unlikely, to waive through the appeal and lock out the ivory tower lunatics at CMA to reset things.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Wtf is fanboyish about what I said? How can one be a fan or anti-fan of something that hasn't been released yet?

Big releases have historically shifted console units in the gaming space, look at the impact of GOW Ragnarok for example. So the idea that a 11/10 Starfield won't shift units is simply wrong.

In a world where Redfall is a 9/10 for some outlets, a 11/10 might not be enough to sell anything...

 

[Bernoulli]

They literally manufactured a cloud gaming market that isnt really the cloud gaming market then used their fantasy to kill a deal that has little to do with cloud gaming.

The size of the market is wrong, the value of the market is wrong, the participants of the market are wrong, their predictions of the future of the market are wrong.

You are right though this deal is likely dead, CMA has no real checks and balances. ABK/MS only hope would be a political intervention, which is unlikely, to waive through the appeal and lock out the ivory tower lunatics at CMA to reset things.

 

[Ar¢tos]

They literally manufactured a cloud gaming market that isnt really the cloud gaming market then used their fantasy to kill a deal that has little to do with cloud gaming.

The size of the market is wrong, the value of the market is wrong, the participants of the market are wrong, their predictions of the future of the market are wrong.

You are right though this deal is likely dead, CMA has no real checks and balances. ABK/MS only hope would be a political intervention, which is unlikely, to waive through the appeal and lock out the ivory tower lunatics at CMA to reset things.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Ultimately the only difference between the EC and the CMA decisions is whether or not the 10 year license remedy solved the problem they both had with the future cloud gaming. Vestager says that if they didn't think the remedy would work then they also would have blocked the merger.

"Had we found a concern...cloud gaming is 1-3% of the gaming market. It's a small market. But had we found that a concern could not be solved, well the merger could not go ahead. That will of course go for any other merger."

Both EC and CMA acknowledge that the current cloud gaming market is small. That didn't matter to either one of them. They both were looking at the future of the market. EC says they think they have a good solution. CMA disagrees. It is what it is.

But the EC market worries don't match the UK or US worries, because Xbox's failure to fight for EU consumers with equal offerings- needing localized products - is consistent across Microsoft's entire business. The default language installed in Windows for all SKUs AFAIK is English (US), so no need for us to guess which two markets are automatically served and targeted by default with every Microsoft product and strategy as a result of that. Even the location of Microsoft's cloud infrastructure in the EU favours better experience(lower latency) cloud gaming on average by UK gamers compared to all other EU regions, so the concerns of a 10year deal not being enough in the UK represent our treatment as a first class customer by Microsoft, and it is no surprise that matches the FTC stance in the US, but not the CADE

 

[Pelta88]

ABK/MS only hope would be a political intervention, which is unlikely, to waive through the appeal and lock out the ivory tower lunatics at CMA to reset things.

Who is going to tell him?

 

[Dick Jones]

They literally manufactured a cloud gaming market that isnt really the cloud gaming market then used their fantasy to kill a deal that has little to do with cloud gaming.

The size of the market is wrong, the value of the market is wrong, the participants of the market are wrong, their predictions of the future of the market are wrong.

You are right though this deal is likely dead, CMA has no real checks and balances. ABK/MS only hope would be a political intervention, which is unlikely, to waive through the appeal and lock out the ivory tower lunatics at CMA to reset things.

How is an appeal to see if the CMA carried out their work properly, isn't a real check and balance? Tell me you know nothing about Administrative Law without telling me

 

[mrmustard]

Big releases have historically shifted console units in the gaming space, look at the impact of GOW Ragnarok for example.

What exactly did GOW Ragnarok do? PS5s would also have been flying of the shelves if they had bundled it with Hello Kitty Online instead.

 

[Topher]

lol......self-loathing over fucking video games. Priceless.

 

[Three]

What exactly did GOW Ragnarok do? PS5s would also have been flying of the shelves if they had bundled it with Hello Kitty Online instead.

It sold systems. Look at ToTK and Switch sales in Japan too where we get detailed console numbers.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Who is going to tell him?

So many user name changes for one side of the discussion around these big announcements, using the same script points, how can we tell if the user making that point is naively genuine? or a knowledegable astroturfer?

 

[mrmustard]

It sold systems. Look at ToTK and Switch sales in Japan too where we get detailed console numbers.

Yeah, but the Switch wasn't sold out all the time. PS5 games from release to end of 2022 are very bad examples. Yoshida could have rubbed every PS5 in shit and they would have been sold out.

 

[Astray]

So many "gamers" rushing in to tell us all that great games don't matter. Amazing state of affairs.

 

[Pelta88]

So many user name changes for one side of the discussion around these big announcements, using the same script points, how can we tell if the user making that point is naively genuine? or a knowledegable astroturfer?

This thread is an alt farm.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yeah, but the Switch wasn't sold out all the time. PS5 games from release to end of 2022 are very bad examples. Yoshida could have rubbed every PS5 in shit and they would have been sold out.

ToTK released and now Switch is again outselling PlayStation, which has been consistently outselling Nintendo Switch and Xbox in 2023.

Great games sell consoles. Period.

 

[mrmustard]

Great games sell consoles. Period.

Agreed, just saying GOW was a bad example because the consoles would have been sold out no matter what.

 

[Thirty7ven]

All this batshit craziness online just to have COD on GP and hope it’s a silver bullet for Xbox.

The most bipolar community of fans I’ve ever seen online.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Agreed, just saying GOW was a bad example because the consoles would have been sold out no matter what.

I know a few people, especially PC gamers brought a PS5 just to play Ragnarok.

It's likely many people were holding out on buying a PS5 till the game released.

But I see what you mean, it's very likely PS5 would have sold out regardless.

 

[mrmustard]

I know a few people, especially PC gamers brought a PS5 just to play Ragnarok.

It's likely many people were holding out on buying a PS5 till the game released.

But I see what you mean, it's very likely PS5 would have sold out regardless.

Thank you, finally someone gets it.

 

[GHG]

Lmao what is our boy doing tagging Rishi Sunak on twitter?

They're all doing it. Him, Jez, Florian and anyone else part of the circus.