Microsoft buying Nokia Devices and Services

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It also kinda proves how unviable windows is as a platform now.

Nokia, which was getting like a billion + a year from microsoft to use the software, sold its entire mobile business, once the biggest out there, for only 5 billion bucks... thats so stupid.

But then thinking Nokia would make a smart move this late is kind of like expecting blackberry to turn it around.

It seems to me, that with their still considerable market share, any other number of companies would have been willing to pay more to get that. From the Chinese up and comers, to the big boys.
 
GCX said:
MS didn't buy Nokia's patents at all, just a license to use them.
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I thought I read somewhere where they are getting the design patents to the phones, just not the hardware tech patents.

According to the two companies, Microsoft will purchase Nokia’s Devices & Services business for around $7.2 billion USD; the deal is expected to close in early 2014. This includes the Lumia brand and products, along with the company’s thousands of patents and licensing agreements with Qualcomm and others. Microsoft will be taking Nokia’s Mobile Phone business, too, which includes its successful low-cost Asha line (which, ironically, does not run Windows Phone).
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It's not quite clear.
 
Hmm, so if I'm reading this right. MS have not licenced the Nokia brand for smartphones. Only for "Mobile Phones" which Nokia put in a different category to smartphones from what I remember. I must be reading it wrong, because that would mean new WP devices from them would have to be sold under the Microsoft brand, but regular phones and Asha can still be sold as Nokia. I guess the board want to get away from the WP association if this is true.

Nokia have also kept all of the patents and agreed not to release their own phone using the Nokia brand until 1/1/2016. Since they hold the patents making a new devices division for them would be very, very easy, they could actually buy a ready made start up that they have seeded like Jolla and release their phones under the Nokia brand from 2016 since they still hold all of their patents. I'm not saying they will choose to do this, but it is a possibility.

Elop goes back to Microsoft, now the division head and Julie reports to him. Also now the bookies favourite to become CEO.

There will be reaction later in the day from Nokia employees who won't want to jump over to MS so that will be interesting.
 
markot said:
It also kinda proves how unviable windows is as a platform now.

Nokia, which was getting like a billion + a year from microsoft to use the software, sold its entire mobile business, once the biggest out there, for only 5 billion bucks... thats so stupid.

But then thinking Nokia would make a smart move this late is kind of like expecting blackberry to turn it around.

It seems to me, that with their still considerable market share, any other number of companies would have been willing to pay more to get that. From the Chinese up and comers, to the big boys.
Click to expand...

I find this interesting that you said Windows. How so? Are you saying this basing it on what you think the market demands are for Windows 8 and Windows Phone alone?
 
Totakeke said:
I thought I read somewhere where they are getting the design patents to the phones, just not the hardware tech patents.



It's not quite clear.
Click to expand...

It's a licence:

As part of the transaction, Nokia will grant Microsoft a 10 year non-exclusive license to its patents as of the time of the closing, and Microsoft will grant Nokia reciprocal rights related to HERE services. In addition, Nokia will grant Microsoft an option to extend this mutual patent agreement to perpetuity. Of the total purchase price of EUR 5.44 billion, EUR 3.79 billion relates to the purchase of substantially all of the Devices & Services business, and EUR 1.65 billion relates to the mutual patent agreement and future option.
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http://press.nokia.com/2013/09/03/n...oft-in-eur-5-44-billion-all-cash-transaction/

MS are not buying the patents.
 
mrklaw said:
why is it any worse than samsung galaxy running google android?

I think it'd be a mistake to have 'windows lumia' - Nokia is a much stronger brand than MS in many major growth markets like India and China. Hopefully they'll keep that. If you want to simplify the branding I'd actually tone down the windows part, but I doubt they'd want to do that

is there any indication that this means MS won't continue third party licensing? i.e will we stop seeing HTC windows phones?
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Them not being able to label their future smartphones as Nokia seems to be the weakest part of this deal.

I don't thin MS plans to stop licensing. It's always been more about whether OEMs want to license and give a shit about the platform.

I hope the design team stays intact. I've loved 90% of Nokia's recent designs across all categories.

I also love how this deal has been made using offshore cash.
 
hipbabboom said:
I find this interesting that you said Windows. How so? Are you saying this basing it on what you think the market demands are for Windows 8 and Windows Phone alone?
Click to expand...

Nokia went from top dog to dead dog.

Nokia was getting billions from microsoft to help them, but still decided to cut off the arm and carry on without.

Nokia was the only windows phone player in town, and it couldnt cut it.
 
zomgbbqftw said:
Hmm, so if I'm reading this right. MS have not licenced the Nokia brand for smartphones. Only for "Mobile Phones" which Nokia put in a different category to smartphones from what I remember. I must be reading it wrong, because that would mean new WP devices from them would have to be sold under the Microsoft brand, but regular phones and Asha can still be sold as Nokia. I guess the board want to get away from the WP association if this is true.

Nokia have also kept all of the patents and agreed not to release their own phone using the Nokia brand until 1/1/2016. Since they hold the patents making a new devices division for them would be very, very easy, they could actually buy a ready made start up that they have seeded like Jolla and release their phones under the Nokia brand from 2016 since they still hold all of their patents. I'm not saying they will choose to do this, but it is a possibility.

Elop goes back to Microsoft, now the division head and Julie reports to him. Also now the bookies favourite to become CEO.

There will be reaction later in the day from Nokia employees who won't want to jump over to MS so that will be interesting.
Click to expand...

This could really be interesting.
 
mrklaw said:
why is it any worse than samsung galaxy running google android?
Click to expand...

Because it is not a great simple branding effort. Samsung Galaxy is basically the focus point for Android as it stands.

Microsoft is basically enterprise for the world. Strict branding on their side will probably only benefit and strengthen the line for business. If you look at their slides it seems like this is their angle.
 
I see this purchase as a realization from MS that they can't be the "Windows" of mobile world, Android's got that locked for good. So they're going after the iPhone money.
 
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25897074&postcount=257

27670053246b8832ceb5e1i-called-it.jpg


ANGRY BIRDS PLEASE SAVE US

edit: Forgot Clash Of Clans. Dear Clash Of Clans, if Angry Birds fails, please save Finland.

Thnx,

Pete.
 
Some places are saying Microsoft have bought the Lumia brand, so I guess they will try and sell WP devices as Lumia or Microsoft Lumia. I think they should stay away from the Microsoft branding in Europe and sell them as "Lumia" only. Nokia is what's popular here, not WP. Without the Nokia branding on new WP devices from MS it will be a much tougher sell, and slapping Microsoft onto them will make it even more difficult.
 
zomgbbqftw said:
Hmm, so if I'm reading this right. MS have not licenced the Nokia brand for smartphones. Only for "Mobile Phones" which Nokia put in a different category to smartphones from what I remember. I must be reading it wrong, because that would mean new WP devices from them would have to be sold under the Microsoft brand, but regular phones and Asha can still be sold as Nokia. I guess the board want to get away from the WP association if this is true.

Nokia have also kept all of the patents and agreed not to release their own phone using the Nokia brand until 1/1/2016. Since they hold the patents making a new devices division for them would be very, very easy, they could actually buy a ready made start up that they have seeded like Jolla and release their phones under the Nokia brand from 2016 since they still hold all of their patents. I'm not saying they will choose to do this, but it is a possibility.

Elop goes back to Microsoft, now the division head and Julie reports to him. Also now the bookies favourite to become CEO.

There will be reaction later in the day from Nokia employees who won't want to jump over to MS so that will be interesting.
Click to expand...

what do you think about that from a branding point of view? I think it'd be a mistake to remove nokia branding from lumias - in many markets like India where the Nokia brand is strong, they might encourage sales of lumia *despite* it being a windows phone. remove that and you have a nice phone with an MS badge? The value of the nokia brand is huge, and it seems to be being ignored - NSN is a business to business venture, HERE is hardly even Nokia branded, and they won't be making phones?
 
Warm Machine said:
Because it is not a great simple branding effort. Samsung Galaxy is basically the focus point for Android as it stands.

Microsoft is basically enterprise for the world. Strict branding on their side will probably only benefit and strengthen the line for business. If you look at their slides it seems like this is their angle.
Click to expand...

Samsung Galaxy is basically Android these days - I'd agree with you.
Nokia Lumia is basically windows phone these days - whats the difference?

I'm not sure people buy 'an android phone', they are more likely to want 'the new samsung galaxy'. Likewise with Nokia - do they really buy 'a windows phone' or 'that new Lumia 920'?
 
mrklaw said:
Samsung Galaxy is basically Android these days - I'd agree with you.
Nokia Lumia is basically windows phone these days - whats the difference?
Click to expand...

The difference is Samsung Galaxy is a strong brand that's moving a shitload of phones and Nokia Lumia is not. Microsoft is hoping their branding and marketing can help change that.
 
zomgbbqftw said:
Some places are saying Microsoft have bought the Lumia brand, so I guess they will try and sell WP devices as Lumia or Microsoft Lumia. I think they should stay away from the Microsoft branding in Europe and sell them as "Lumia" only. Nokia is what's popular here, not WP. Without the Nokia branding on new WP devices from MS it will be a much tougher sell, and slapping Microsoft onto them will make it even more difficult.
Click to expand...

Yes MS owns the Lumia branding and for their sake they should rename Windows Phone to Lumia, as you said without the Nokia branding things will get tougher.
 
markot said:
Nokia went from top dog to dead dog.

Nokia was getting billions from microsoft to help them, but still decided to cut off the arm and carry on without.

Nokia was the only windows phone player in town, and it couldnt cut it.
Click to expand...
Let's make he assumption that everything you said about Nokia is true. How does this mean the Windows platform is no longer viable. After all, the windows platform comprises more than Windows Phone and certainly more than Nokia.

But that said, I still have some problems with your assumption. What was Nokia's trajectory before Windows Phone? wasn't the feature phone market already being harmed by the smart phone? Nokia also being device and services company, would joining the Android market have strengthened or weakened its core portfolio? The N9 was interesting but was a feature DNA-based phone OS really have been competitive? We are all optimist and would like to believe there's some alternate reality where a Microsoft-free Nokia would have flourished but I doubt that getting there would have been anything close to a sure thing.

Still being optimistic, I want to believe that MS contracting the cycles for most of its product lines along with having actual device DNA within the company may be the deference they need to accelerate themselves in a market where they're growing at a snails pace.

An acquisition making sense or a planned takeover are two extremes but I think the truth is probably somewhere in the rational middle.
 
So basically they're gonna sell windows lumia or ms lumia phones. Whose gonna buy that? Branding is important and Nokia is a huge one.
 
zomgbbqftw said:
Hmm, so if I'm reading this right. MS have not licenced the Nokia brand for smartphones. Only for "Mobile Phones" which Nokia put in a different category to smartphones from what I remember. I must be reading it wrong, because that would mean new WP devices from them would have to be sold under the Microsoft brand, but regular phones and Asha can still be sold as Nokia. I guess the board want to get away from the WP association if this is true.

Nokia have also kept all of the patents and agreed not to release their own phone using the Nokia brand until 1/1/2016. Since they hold the patents making a new devices division for them would be very, very easy, they could actually buy a ready made start up that they have seeded like Jolla and release their phones under the Nokia brand from 2016 since they still hold all of their patents. I'm not saying they will choose to do this, but it is a possibility.

Elop goes back to Microsoft, now the division head and Julie reports to him. Also now the bookies favourite to become CEO.

There will be reaction later in the day from Nokia employees who won't want to jump over to MS so that will be interesting.
Click to expand...
Eh, where does it say that Microsoft didn't buy the phone patents. It says in all the reports they did. From what I've heard they are only licensing the Nokia name for specific phone models and the Here Mapping services
 
Guess Who said:
The difference is Samsung Galaxy is a strong brand that's moving a shitload of phones and Nokia Lumia is not. Microsoft is hoping their branding and marketing can help change that.
Click to expand...

Nokia is a stronger brand than MS in the mobile phone market. Lumia isn't a strong brand, it is becoming stronger because it is Nokia Lumia. I don't understand why Nokia didn't also sell their name to MS. The parts they are keeping - HERE and NSN don't need the brand value of nokia. NSN is B2B and can survive a rebrand easily enough, and HERE used to be Nokia maps until they rebranded *away* from Nokia (tiny 'powered by' notwithstanding)

that is the most confusing part for me. MS want the devices, but not the brand. Maybe that is their arrogance or assumption that they don't need it, but I think they do
 
Wait, so Microsoft can't use the Nokia name anymore on their phones? Didn't I read something about a 10 years license to use the Nokia name?

Wow, this will turn out even worse than I expected then.
 
Riddick said:
Wait, so Microsoft can't use the Nokia name anymore on their phones? Didn't I read something about a 10 years license to use the Nokia name?

Wow, this will turn out even worse than I expected then.
Click to expand...

Microsoft is acquiring Nokia's Smart Devices business unit, including the Lumia brand and products
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looks like lumia only for smartphones...

Microsoft is also acquiring Nokia's Mobile Phones business unit, which serves hundreds of millions of customers worldwide, and had sales of 53.7 million units in the second quarter of 2013. Microsoft will acquire the Asha brand and will license the Nokia brand for use with current Nokia mobile phone products
Click to expand...

but Nokia name for asha? Seems an odd split.

Nokia will continue to own and manage the Nokia brand.
Click to expand...
 
mrklaw said:
Nokia is a stronger brand than MS in the mobile phone market. Lumia isn't a strong brand, it is becoming stronger because it is Nokia Lumia. I don't understand why Nokia didn't also sell their name to MS. The parts they are keeping - HERE and NSN don't need the brand value of nokia. NSN is B2B and can survive a rebrand easily enough, and HERE used to be Nokia maps until they rebranded *away* from Nokia (tiny 'powered by' notwithstanding)

that is the most confusing part for me. MS want the devices, but not the brand. Maybe that is their arrogance or assumption that they don't need it, but I think they do
Click to expand...
Nokia is a valuable brand and it might become handy in the future. It gives the company some background and history, there's no point in giving it to MS just like that.
 
mrklaw said:
looks like lumia only for smartphones...



but Nokia name for asha? Seems an odd split.
Click to expand...


Aha, I missed the word "current" in that sentence, thanks.

So what, they think Europe will buy a Microsoft Lumia phone when they weren't buying the Nokia Lumias to begin with? This is going to be a disaster.
 
mrklaw said:
looks like lumia only for smartphones...



but Nokia name for asha? Seems an odd split.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is weird, but what would happen if Nokia Asha branding moves to low end WP devices and Lumia is for the High-end phones?, that way they could sell the Nokia name in emerging markets with phones akin to the Lumias 520 and 620 which are the ones selling in mass, and market Pureview Lumias as the premium brand
 
Riddick said:
Aha, I missed the word "current" in that sentence, thanks.

So what, they think Europe will buy a Microsoft Lumia phone when they weren't buying the Nokia Lumias to begin with? This is going to be a disaster.
Click to expand...

Lumia brand is doing fairly well as a whole in Europe. Latest figures was WP taking 8.4% of all smartphone sales here, growth in almost every country.
 
f0lken said:
Yeah that is weird, but what would happen if Nokia Asha branding moves to low end WP devices and Lumia is for the High-end phones?, that way they could sell the Nokia name in emerging markets with phones akin to the Lumias 520 and 620 which are the ones selling in mass, and market Pureview Lumias as the premium brand
Click to expand...

I can't see them getting WP devices down to Asha pricing though. Would be good if they could I guess. The whole point of Asha is an entry level smartphone for developing markets. MS sees is as an on-ramp to windows phones (kind of what Nokia probably sees it as too), but I don't know how much patience they'd have there. If they don't MS brand them, why keep that low margin business?
it's all very confusing
 
Riddick said:
Aha, I missed the word "current" in that sentence, thanks.

So what, they think Europe will buy a Microsoft Lumia phone when they weren't buying the Nokia Lumias to begin with? This is going to be a disaster.
Click to expand...

Lumia is growing in Europe, if anything.
 
Riddick said:
Aha, I missed the word "current" in that sentence, thanks.

So what, they think Europe will buy a Microsoft Lumia phone when they weren't buying the Nokia Lumias to begin with? This is going to be a disaster.
Click to expand...

No, you don't understand.

Lumia sales/WP was being held back by the terribly slow pace of Nokia's hardware development.

Now that MS is in charge, they'll finally force Nokia to keep up with MS' rapid speed of OS/app development, and their phones will run circles around the competition.

It's all good.
 
kharma45 said:
Lumia brand is doing fairly well as a whole in Europe. Latest figures was WP taking 8.4% of all smartphone sales here, growth in almost every country.
Click to expand...


It's doing decently at best and that's mainly because it's a Nokia phone not because it's a Lumia. Believe it or not Europeans still liked Nokia.
 
Seems like balmer wants to completely corrode the value of the company on his way out. What a waste of money.

That money could have went along way to fixing the Xbox one problem.
 
kharma45 said:
Lumia brand is doing fairly well as a whole in Europe. Latest figures was WP taking 8.4% of all smartphone sales here, growth in almost every country.
Click to expand...
But that wasn't due to the "Lumia" part of the brand but the "Nokia" part. I'd even argue Nokia phones were sold because they were Nokia phones and despite they had WP on it.
 
Well no reason to be mad really. Nokia had two ways to go out and this was the other. I'd rather see them get bought than wither away.

PetriP-TNT said:
edit: Forgot Clash Of Clans. Dear Clash Of Clans, if Angry Birds fails, please save Finland.

Thnx,

Pete.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's all about Supercell these days!
 
Irminsul said:
But that wasn't due to the "Lumia" part of the brand but the "Nokia" part. I'd even argue Nokia phones were sold because they were Nokia phones and despite they had WP on it.
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. More likely sold because of Nokia and when they used WP they realize how nice it really is regardless of people trying to tear it down.
 
Tabris said:
Almost all of the old cellphone manufacturers have now been bought

HP buys Palm
Sony buys Ericksson
Google buys Motorolla
Microsoft buys Nokia

Apple buys RIM?
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Apple buying RIM would be worth however many billion they spent, not because it would improve their phones but just for the meltdowns on CrackBerry.
 
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