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Microsoft cooking 360 figures? *Rumors*
- Thread starter Lagaff
- Start date
schuelma said:
Tell me, if the PS3 was $250...which console would sell better, the Wii or PS3?
It's all about perceived value, and I'll say it again for the hundredth time, once the PS3 hits a mass market price...it'll sell like hotcakes...this case, sell like hotcakes in Japan.
Nightstick11 said:
Yeah I saw, you made a dumb statement that cannot be supported by evidence.
I'm not surprised...you've been doing that this whole thread.
So you're implying to me that if MS copied the Wii's controls that Wii has no chance...interesting.
You're acting as if gamers are not interested in the PS3 and 360. That is not the case. It's just that a lot of people see it beyond their wallets at this point. That will change in a year or two, and people will adopt them very well.
Partially because consoles like the 360 have a better games library.
The 360 and PS3 had some great sales starts as well, when compared to previous consoles.
Yet, you claim they will disappear in two years.
Why? What is the crux of your argument? That gamers aren't interested in the PS3 and 360.
Which is a crock of shit.
They all started at non-mass market prices, garnered developer support, and once they hit mass-market prices...BOOM sales skyrocketed.
This...is fact.
Your assertion that the Wii selling well is indicative of the market being uninterested in the PS3 and 360, is total bullshit.
My assertion that the PS3 and 360 is not selling as well as the Wii because of their prices is far more reasonable. Ask any gamer here...the PS3 and 360 are appealing to them, but the price isn't. Once it hits > $250, a lot of apprehensive gamers will be on board.
Haunted
Member
I was referring to 'not quoting anything = replying to the OP'.Hcoregamer00 said:What does arguing the wii is overpriced have to do with anything?
Exactly
Usually, I'd agree, but if done reasonably, I have nothing against the discussion branching out in a thread. This thread? Pretty much a cluster****.
In a way, this kind of reminds me of the early GC vs. Xbox sales battles where GC was basically stomping the Xbox. Now, I'm not saying Wii will have a GC like slump and get decimated. I'm trying to say that anybody making any long term projection about how things will be 5 years are ignoring so many factors it's idiotic. You can't guess what will happen in a few years based on the first few months. What if ppl really do get tired of the controls (either of them, the waggle and the traditional)? What if the graphics problem catches up to Nintendo when the 360 is equally as affordable? IMO, those 2 are the biggest variables in this battle. Nintendo made a currently lucrative but potentially dangerous bet in the long run, because you can't predict how ppl will react to certain factors. Same with MS. At this point, they better hope that when their suped up graphics becomes mass market priced, that people will choose the 360 as the superior choice.
Anybody who believes the battle is already over is an idiot. As they say, it's not over until it's over.
Anybody who believes the battle is already over is an idiot. As they say, it's not over until it's over.
schuelma said:
1. Japan has been for the last few years far more of an outlier in terms of gaming tastes compared to the Western markets. It's also the only market where Wii Sports isn't a pack in. You can't determine the relative strength of that one title world wide based on that. I could counter argue that 360 software sales have been crushing the Wii in the US.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Haunted One said:
The playoffs started Monday and he's supporting the future 2007 Stanley Cup winners.
909er said:
I'd dispute that statement. Wasn't Brain Age and Nintendogs only going to cater to the Japanese? True, the DS is currently much more of a monster in Japan than the U.S, but I'd say going by the latest NPD the U.S is catching on. And hasn't the console world wide leader always won Japan?
Second, you're right- because its a pack in its hard to measure its impact in Europe and NA. That said, how else would you account for the unprecedented hype, mainstream media, and demand? Zelda?
StevieP said:
Well you really showed me. I feel the pain.
I think I see the light now. You see guys, while the Wii gets crazy popular games like Boogie, Harry Potter, 2D games from SNK the 360 and PS3 are stuck with the likes of Virtua Fighter, Devil May Cry, Grand Theft Auto, Sega Rally, Ace Combat, etc. How can they possibly compete with such a quality list of titles like those you showed there?
That right there is truly the future of this generation!
PS: You just proved my point. The Wii will get the majority of easy to do ports, shovelware, spin-offs and every once in awhile a solid original title while the 360/PS3 continues to get the games people outside of GAF cares and know about.
Haunted One said:Alright then.
One thing only: I really wouldn't use NeoGAF users as a barometer for the mass-market appeal of any console.
You're right so how about we ask the 120+ million gamers that passed on Nintendo consoles, TWICE, the past 2 generations in favor for the types of games found on the Playstation and PS2....the ones which will continue to appear on 360/PS3?
Are they a loud enough voice/large enough barometer for you?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Haunted One said:
jimbo said:
My point is different games work better on Nintendo. In my opinion, Sonic and Mario is going to sell a hell of a lot more than those titles you listed.
And BTW- Wii got the good Sonic this time around.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
jimbo said:
They are not the mainstream.
You can't expect hardcore gamers of any type be a proper indication of how casual gamers think, the people who buy a majority of the consoles and games.
jimbo said:
So what? The Wii is building a huge user base in a short amount of time. It's almost caught up to the 360. You really think that isn't going to lead to developers shifting to the Wii? Honestly? I forget, but what is your opinion on why the Wii is going to die? Is it games, or price drops by its competitors, or what?
What does the discussion of Nintendo and Sony running rampart in the last few pages got to do with Microsoft cooking 360 figures or not? Arne said it reasonably well at the start of the 3rd page that the thread should've been closed due to no real means of discussion towards the original post.Haunted One said:
Nevermind, you answered your own question.Haunted One said:Usually, I'd agree, but if done reasonably, I have nothing against the discussion branching out in a thread. This thread? Pretty much a cluster****.
Barbacoatl
Banned
Boogie sucks? Damn GAF, I should have known
so, according to jimbo (ninja edit heh), the 360 and ps3 are stuck with the same stuff we been playing for years (plus the 'oh so crispy' hd textures) because it's the kind of fix non-gaffers crave?
You're right, ace combat will sell out.
ftr, ace combat is great. jimbo, not so much.
so, according to jimbo (ninja edit heh), the 360 and ps3 are stuck with the same stuff we been playing for years (plus the 'oh so crispy' hd textures) because it's the kind of fix non-gaffers crave?
You're right, ace combat will sell out.
ftr, ace combat is great. jimbo, not so much.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
schuelma said:
Yes, no boobies and loli raping means it is a kids game.
schuelma said:
Yes I really do. The Wii will get BETTER support than past Nintendo consoles. But that's all she wrote folks. It won't get better support than the 360/PS3.
1. The Wii is 2nd. There's currently no need to switch. It has still to pass the 360.
2. Unlike you, developers do think about what will happen when the 360 and PS3 gets price drops. They also think about what the current 360 line-up will do for its user-base when games like Halo, GTA, BD hit.
3. The Wii still has to prove it can be the first console since the SNES that can actually provide GREAT third party sales. The 360, at 6.5 million units was DOMINATING software charts with pretty much every release, first party or third party. The Wii at 6.5 million units doesn't do this except with first party titles.
No I don't think the Wii will die. I think it will do well.
Trip Warhawkins said:Boogie sucks? Damn GAF, I should have known
so, according to schuelma, the 360 and ps3 are stuck with the same stuff we been playing for years (plus the 'oh so crispy' hd textures) because it's the kind of fix non-gaffers crave?
You're right, ace combat will sell out.
ftr, ace combat is great. schuelma, not so much.
Edit- ok good..didn't think your post applied to me. :lol :lol
jimbo said:
1. It's second and gaining about 500K a month on the 360.
2. Fair enough, but Nintendo can match or exceed any price cut.
3. Agreed. I would argue that because so many developers were late to the party, 3rd parties haven't given Wii owners any truly blockbuster third party games to play.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
what is mass market price though? $199?
It's going to be a very long time before that happens - 2009? 2010? 2011? the 'war' will be over by then... the Wii will be at some crazy sales figure by that time.
I doubt developers are going to sit waiting for years for the PS3 to finally take off, they'll hawl ass to where the money is.
It's all well and good saying "well, IF the PS3 was $250..." - it's not, and there's a reason it's not. I don't think you can argue percieved value on the strength of an hypothetical situation which either ignores the fact that sony would be commiting suicide or would remove mean the exclusion of components that would have given the machine it's perceived value at that price point.
Yes, it'll get there eventually - but most likely it's going to be 3-4 years before it hits mass market and , as i've said, that might be too late to help.
All this is also ignoring the fact that Nintendo probably have the most room to waggle a price cut... i hear they have a huge back log of GCs and literally thousands of miles of tape just ready to go into a new factory at the drop of a hat.
schuelma said:
1. Can I see the detailed, solid data you used to come up with this wonderful fact? And also the guarantee the Devil/God gave you that this will continue while you're at it.
2. Great but the GC did too. This isn't simply about the 360/PS3 being more expensive than the Wii, or the Wii being cheaper than the 360/PS3. This is about the 360/PS3 being far away from a mass market price. It has nothing to do with the Wii's price point, but their own. There have been plenty of consoles that were more expensive that sold more than the cheaper console. There's never been a console priced at over $299 that sold into a mass market. There's also never been a $399 console that's sold as good as the 360.
3. And again, I'm not asking for the games to be coming out in the next couple of months. But simply an announcement of a port of games like DMC, VF, Ace Combat, Oblivion, Lost Planet, GTA, Assasin's Creed, MGS, FFXIII, Sega Rally, Phantasy Star, Dead Rising, Ninja Gaiden, Dead or Alive, Bioshock, Half-Life, and so many more would be nice.
You know, you are a funny little boy.Fight for Freeform said:
$400 is the price point for customers not the amount of money Microsoft earns per console. You know why? Because retailers don't sell goods for nothing, iirc 20% - 25% of the MSRP are for retailers, also factor in shipping costs and you will end up at $300 or less per console for Microsoft which is obviously less than manufacturing costs for each Xbox 360 console (according to iSupply about $325.)
jimbo said:
1. Well, in Japan its gaining 250-300k a month so far. In N.A for January and February its gained over a 100K. No one knows for sure in Europe but if Nintendo's statement of selling 2m so far is true then its really outpacing the 360 there. And until the holiday season, what is going to change fundamentally to alter the picture? The Wii is doing all of this in spite of having a weak library compared to the 360.
2. My point is, if the Wii gets down to 150-100..I'd say that's at even more of a mass selling price.
3. Sad to say, its going to be very hard to port those games down to the Wii. What I think we'll see is most publishers making a HD big budget game and a Wii one.
DCharlie said:
Eh, it remains to be seen if the Wii will even outsell the X360 this year after a price cut and Halo 3.
PS3 will get a 360 port.
Sony should thank MS. X360 is gonna save the PS3 from losing a ton of support like the PSP has against the DS.
I still don't see why we are comparing the PS3 to the Wii. They are not on the same lifecycle. IN fact you could say Nintendo is behind because by the time they offer a HD system Sony will have millions head start.
Wonderdave
Member
Mass market price differs from product to product even within the same market. The PS3 could hit mass market as high as $399 but I'd say about $299 for the PS3 while the X360 mass market price will likely hold at $199. Using the $299 figure, its not unreasonable that the PS3 could hit Mass market price before the X360. The Wii isn't a factor, it's already at mass market price so lowering the price won't have as great an effect on market penetration.
schuelma said:
1. Lots of things. The Wii itself speaks for this. It was an over night hit. The Elite. Price drops. An insanely popular must-have game. Anything can happen that can change things way before the holiday.
2. And my point is it won't matter if the Wii's cheaper. What matters is the 360 and PS3 being affordable. The GC, DC, Xbox were ALL cheaper than the PS2 at respective points in their lifetime, but they still got rocked by it. At $299 and under people can AFFORD it. At +$399 there are literally people out there that WANT a 360 or a PS3 but simply not have the money for it. Again the Wii's not outselling the PS3/360 because it's cheaper, rather the 360/PS3 aren't selling as well as they could because THEY are expensive. Being cheaper than the others, where all consoles are at a sub 300 price, won't give the Wii the sales advantage its having now.
3. I agree.
PS: I'm done for the night folks. The wife's calling. Good show though.