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[Stink]

seems over for Microsoft.

 

[Shiggy]

Now, these above quotes indicate a lack of understanding of 'barrier to entry'. It is the $400 price tag that dictates that 360 appeals to hardcore, simply because it is really only the hardore that can justify the entry price.

We simply DO NOT KNOW, whether the 360's current/upcoming library appeals to casuals at a more acceptable casual price-point. Which is why Microsoft *need* to drop the price prior to the release of Halo 3 and GTA IV.

I would agrue that the 360 library DOES appeal to casuals, just not enough to bite at the current price.

Howeve, I have a strong feeling that MS are NOT going to drop the 360 price until Sony makes the first move with PS3 - which would be a gargantuan mistake. They need to demonstrate that they want to be the market-leader, not follower.

We already said that the X360 price is cheaper (Core) or 50 Euro more expensive than Wii, still, the Wii sells much more in Europe. I think we are able to say that the 360 doesn't appeal to casuals, what is not only caused by the price, but by the game.

 

[westical]

We already said that the X360 price is cheaper (Core) or 50 Euro more expensive than Wii, still, the Wii sells much more in Europe. I think we are able to say that the 360 doesn't appeal to casuals, what is not only caused by the price, but by the game.

Err, since when was the Core 360 cheaper than a Wii? Or do you meant in certain stores in certain countries?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Do you guys do math?

For wii to catch x360, given a 3m gap, the wii needs to outsell the x360 by nearly 400k EVERY MONTH until end of December, worldwide. That's to draw equal.

Now, that is absolutely do-able. To do so the Wii has to cover 200k in Japan, 100k in US and 100k in Europe every MONTH WITHOUT MISSING A BEAT.

This also assumes -- no system sellers, no price drops, and no large discrepancy between the differences in # of consoles sold over the holidays.

Yeah, the Wii will do that and then some.

I would also like to echo the "no shit, Sherlock" sentiment about Microsoft stuffing the retail channels to reach their 10m sell-through target.

I like the 360, I want a 360, but the current price of the thing is holding it (and me) back from really breaking out and selling big. Maybe a lot of the casual gamers will be too enraptured by the Wii/whatever to get one, but there are enough people who would buy a 360 if it weren't at it's current price. Regardless of the library.

 

[quest]

We already said that the X360 price is cheaper (Core) or 50 Euro more expensive than Wii, still, the Wii sells much more in Europe. I think we are able to say that the 360 doesn't appeal to casuals, what is not only caused by the price, but by the game.

It might not appeal to the casuals of the european markets. We do not know if the game library will appeal to the NA casuals yet because of price. The Wii might as well be at the magical 199 mark in NA thanks to the free game. If the 360 is not selling 350-400k units a month in NA when the premium is 199 dollars then you are right. It is going to be another year before we find out since the premium is not dropping 200 dollars this year.

 

[starship]

I don't think there's the need to do this, just look at the DS

I agree with you that there'd be no need to do this, but if Nintendo feels there's such a need (after possible 360 price cut or decreasing the Wii sales), they can easily afford it. I'm sure Nintendo will sell everything they produce till the end of 2007 at least, with or without price cut.

 

[steinmc]

We already said that the X360 price is cheaper (Core) or 50 Euro more expensive than Wii, still, the Wii sells much more in Europe.

Well, nobody wants the Xbox360 Core in Europe. That`s the reason,why so many stocks does not sell the core anymore in Europe. People buy the Xbox360 Premium, so it is very interesting, what happens, if MS drops the Price of the Xbox360 premium.

 

[Subitai]

No news here. MS definitely overshipped to retailers.


As far as Wii catching up to 360, the way sales rates are tracking, the Wii should. However, it is too early to predict the way MS Entertainment group is responding/will responde to the success of the Wii. It might be it is more profitable for them to let Wii take the lead by 5 million units over the next 3 years. I work in retail around Seattle and I get random MS guys in every so often. The last few have clearly been concerned about how to shrug off the FPS image of 360 especially in the face of Wii's popularity with traditionally non-gamers and more importantly tradionally casual gamers - especially their gfs/wives. Basically casuals aren't following hardcores to 360 like they did with PS2 and PSOne. So now what do you do if you're MS Entertainment?

You're not gonna go on as originally planned if Wii has done 2/3 of what you have in 4 months and PS3 has crippled Sony's cash flow. Either they get out a waggle control mini game pack and keep up or they don't and start falling behind. All the other stuff MS can do to compete with Wii is relatively moot at this point.

 

[later]

As far as I know it's still 399 in Belgium (Europe), 429 with gears included.

 

[Haunted]

Err, since when was the Core 360 cheaper than a Wii? Or do you meant in certain stores in certain countries?

Yes.

 

[KeithFranklin]

yeah that's MS biggest problem they tried with Viva Pinata but it didn't work.

Honestly what did people expect Viva Pinata to do? I am not saying it is a runaway sales success story, but as for what it was supposed to do for the casual gamer.

Viva Pinata came out during the holidays and the 360 was the lead console over the holidays. Did people expect Viva Pinata to boost the 360 by 100K units per month (In the US) this year so that the 360 stuck with the Wii?

I find the whole casual game argument to be silly the 360. The whole definition of Casual gamers is being changed around in this thread to mean people who purchase Wii's. I always thought the Casual gamers were the people that purchased the sports games, the movie tie in's, the huge blockbuster games (Like GTA), now its the games that Mom plays with junior.

I still believe a huge amount of Wii sales are from Nintendo faithful. After all look at the Zelda tie-ratio. As for Wiimote games they havent set the world on fire except for the pack-in. Most of the new 3rd party games are PS2 games that were quickly ported and given some Wiimote functionality. I believe that sooner or later this will catch up with the Wii in the press. The Wii is not going to get the hype from the press this fall. Still at this point the Wii's best 2 games are simply GCN games with some touchup paint.

Price does matter and if you dont believe that your a fool. The 360 is staying ahead of the XBOX even though at this time the XBOX was $200 (Would soon drop to $180) and every holiday had 2 games free with every console. This fall when the 360 is cheaper and Halo 3 and GTA IV hit (Not to mention all the great other games that came out this year as well) the press is going to give the 360 the hype. The press (Not the analysts) will hype the 360 as the console to get not the Wii when the Holidays hit and look what that did for the Wii this year.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I believe in Santa Claus and unicorns.

 

[StevieP]

I still believe a huge amount of Wii sales are from Nintendo faithful. After all look at the Zelda tie-ratio.

So the Wii's gonna stop selling as soon as it reaches 21 million, right? My God, GAF is hysterical sometimes.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well considering it's 20x the 360 numbers and higher than PS2 numbers I would say they are not so bad.

The last (only) time PS3 sold 20 times the Xbox 360 in Japan was... launch week. Two-thirds of its weeks it's sold 5x as well as X360 or less.

Since launch it has only sold more than twice as well as PS2 on five weeks, and sold less than PS2 on two weeks.

 

[FightyF]

As was mentioned about ... 450 times... the price of the 360 is not the biggest issue. You can get it CHEAPER than the Wii in Europe, but people by and large are purchasing the Wii in comparison to the 360. Why? Because it's appealing to the casual market. MS has good third party support, but the majority of games that are coming from this support have hardcore appeal (Alan Wake, Mass Effect, DMC4, etc etc) - these probably won't be selling very well to casuals. The one or two games that MS has in its library that CAN appeal to casuals (Viva Pinata, for instance) bombed and the only titles that will have any effect on the casual market are the upcoming Halo and GTA. The only problem is that after the holidays, what will continue to appeal to those same casuals?

First off, the price drop is not official and isn't universal. Secondly, there are NO STATS that would demonstrate that the Wii is outselling the 360 after the price drop.

So I can say:
The 360 is outselling the Wii, after it had it's price drop.

And you can't really dispute it.

MS can get its price down this fall, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii continued to sell out and outsell the 360 if Nintendo raised its price to $300. It's white-hot for a reason, and it has everything to do with casual market appeal, not Nintard appeal. And until Sony drops its price (which I highly doubt they will anytime soon) I think MS is sitting fine-and-dandy at their current $400 pricetag. Why lose $25/system at $299 when you could be making $75/system selling at $399? Remember, the XBox division's goal this year is to be profitable, not charitable.

MS was making $75 on each 360 sold last November, FYI. By this time they could be making more.

Your argument regarding casual gamers is weak. Historically casual gamers are the ones who buy consoles for only a few games, usually sports sims.

I don't think MS has to be that concerned if grandmas and grandpas start buying the Wii en masse, because, as I said earlier, it's not going to draw 3rd parties away from the 360, in the same way the Xbox drew 3rd parties away from the GC.

 

[MikeB]

After all the antitrust cases against Micrsoft, which M$ sadly bought off. I find the following allegation most worrying. IMO a repeat offender should be punished heavily. I don't understand why the US governement didn't and doesn't do more. Is it because Microsoft funded Bush's campaigns?

"They simply say, "Well, we have a big consumer product launch of Windows Vista and Office 2007 coming up on January 30. Those who don't take XBox 360s might have some trouble getting inventory of those products." And given that those products are pretty much guaranteed to sell in the millions of units for the year at price points of hundreds of dollars, most retailers will just take the XBoxes and call it a day."

 

[mabuza]

wait so ms is now making money on the 360? since when

 

[schuelma]

First off, the price drop is not official and isn't universal. Secondly, there are NO STATS that would demonstrate that the Wii is outselling the 360 after the price drop.

So I can say:
The 360 is outselling the Wii, after it had it's price drop.

And you can't really dispute it.

It's not much, but the Wii more than doubled the 360's sales in the U.K last week- 25K to 11K.

 

[starship]

wait so ms is now making money on the 360? since when

Since never. Afaik Microsoft still loses money on the hardware.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Do you guys do math?

For wii to catch x360, given a 3m gap, the wii needs to outsell the x360 by nearly 400k EVERY MONTH until end of December, worldwide. That's to draw equal.

Now, that is absolutely do-able. To do so the Wii has to cover 200k in Japan, 100k in US and 100k in Europe every MONTH WITHOUT MISSING A BEAT.

This also assumes -- no system sellers, no price drops, and no large discrepancy between the differences in # of consoles sold over the holidays.

Wii is currently outselling 360 by around 600k a month worldwide, and production of wii is increasing by 20%, so expect that to grow to ~800k/mnth. Wii will pass 360 at current rate no later than the end of september, and at 20% increased rate, no later than august, its INEVITABLE. Also lets do some nice math here, as of end 2006 360 shipped 10.4mln worldwide, that means 6mln US (based on 4.5mln sales) 3mln europe and 1.4mln elsewhere. We know that as of the end of february 360 was at ~5.1mln here, assuming canada is 10% of US that makes it 5.6mln, assume the same sellthrough for europe and you get 2.5mln there for 8.1mln, 200k in aus and 400k in jpn = 8.7mln, worldwide, as of the end of feb for 360. SIMPLE MATH FOLKS. Ill be generous and say 9mln actually sold through as of end february. Wii as of end march was OVER 6mln sold through, so its less than 3 million behind already. Wii has sold 2mln to date in europe, only 500k behind 360, after 4 months there, vs 14 months for 360. Wii should be ahead of 360 in europe by the end of april. Its already tracking over 200k/mnth in japan, and in europe its tracking at 500k/mnth based on sales so far. In the US its tracking around 500k as well on average. Meanwhile 360 is tracking at 400k/mnth WORLDWIDE.

 

[KeithFranklin]

wait so ms is now making money on the 360? since when

According to iSupply last November the 360 Premium costs ~$325 to manufacturer. That is 6 months ago. Component prices should drop since then as well.

http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

 

[Beer Monkey]

According to iSupply last November the 360 Premium costs ~$325 to manufacturer. That is 6 months ago. Component prices should drop since then as well.

http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

Don't forget the monstrous attach rate and the lockout of unauthorized third party accessories. Talk about printing money...

 

[gcfan2k5]

DOUBLE POST WTF????????????

 

[gcfan2k5]

According to iSupply last November the 360 Premium costs ~$325 to manufacturer. That is 6 months ago. Component prices should drop since then as well.

http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=6919

they arent accounting for the component cables, or the wireless controller or the headset included with the premium, or the wired controller for the core, or for the R&D cost involved in designing the machine, they are breaking even at best, and losing money at worst, the xbox division is still tracking in the red quarter to quarter.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Don't forget the monstrous attach rate and the lockout of unauthorized third party accessories. Talk about printing money...

Talk about printing money, nintendo just posted 2.2 BILLION DOLLARS IN PROFIT for the last fiscal year, thats more than every other video game publisher combined i believe.

 

[KeithFranklin]

they arent accounting for the component cables, or the wireless controller or the headset included with the premium, or the wired controller for the core, or for the R&D cost involved in designing the machine, they are breaking even at best, and losing money at worst, the xbox division is still tracking in the red quarter to quarter.

Oh certainly the components cables, wireless controller and headset cost more then $75 to manufacturer. My bad.

Um I dont believe they need to pay anyone per machine a charge for R&D. Those losses were charged 2 years ago. There isnt an XBOX division. The XBOX group is in the same divison as a couple or other new investments (including the Zune which launched during the previous MS fiscal quarter). The FY07 Q3 results come out on April 26th. Now since the vast majority of 360's sold during this quarter were included as expenses in the last quarter it will be very interested to see how the Entertainment and Devices divisions did this quarter since they appear to be draining the supply. Machines now profitable, lots of software sales including very successful 1st party titles and not manufacturing a great deal of new hardware (Zune or 360).

 

[gcfan2k5]

Oh certainly the components cables, wireless controller and headset cost more then $75 to manufacturer. My bad.

Um I dont believe they need to pay anyone per machine a charge for R&D. Those losses were charged 2 years ago. There isnt an XBOX division. The XBOX group is in the same divison as a couple or other new investments (including the Zune which launched during the previous MS fiscal quarter).

R&D costs are to be accounted for by your division as a whole, the cost still hasnt been accounted for, and month to month the home entertainment division which is 99% xbox as far as revenue, is tracking in the red, its only EVER had ONE profitable quarter, which was the halo2 release. They sell the 360 to distributor. (who then sell it to retailers) for WAY less than 400 bucks, you can BUY a premium from wholesalers for around 365 - 370 bucks, and they sell them at a markup as well, id imaging 300 - 330 is what microsoft sees per 360, certainly not enough to cover the manufacturing costs of the unit and all that comes with it.

 

[KeithFranklin]

R&D costs are to be accounted for by your division as a whole, the cost still hasnt been accounted for, and month to month the home entertainment division which is 99% xbox as far as revenue, is tracking in the red, its only EVER had ONE profitable quarter, which was the halo2 release. They sell the 360 to distributor. (who then sell it to retailers) for WAY less than 400 bucks, you can BUY a premium from wholesalers for around 365 - 370 bucks, and they sell them at a markup as well, id imaging 300 - 330 is what microsoft sees per 360, certainly not enough to cover the manufacturing costs of the unit and all that comes with it.

MS does not sell 360's for that low of a price to wholesalers. The big box retailers get the machines directly from MS. Not to mention the fact that retailers dont make much if anything on selling hardware. This is the reason last year my firm had the darndest time purchasing 250 of them. The retailers wanted us to also purchase games from them, because they wanted to make something on the deal. A retailer we do a great deal of work for wouldnt sell them to us because they wanted to make some profit and they wouldnt just selling us the machines.

 

[gcfan2k5]

MS does not sell 360's for that low of a price to wholesalers. The big box retailers get the machines directly from MS. Not to mention the fact that retailers dont make much if anything on selling hardware. This is the reason last year my firm had the darndest time purchasing 250 of them. The retailers wanted us to also purchase games from them, because they wanted to make something on the deal. A retailer we do a great deal of work for wouldnt sell them to us because they wanted to make some profit and they wouldnt just selling us the machines.

I can purchase a 360 premium for under 375 dollars brand new from any number of wholesalers, at the very least they are making 10 bucks on them, so 365 as a fair estimate, assuming 330 bucks to manufacture the hardware itself, there is then cost for the controller headset and cables, packaging, shipping and the labor cost involved in all of these processes, they arent making money on these things, otherwise the division would be in the black and it isnt, even with game sales as good as they are it isnt in the black quarter to quarter...... this should indicate a major loss SOMEWHERE, and as the 360 is 99% of that division revenue wise, its gotta be the hardware.

 

[KeithFranklin]

I can purchase a 360 premium for under 375 dollars brand new from any number of wholesalers, at the very least they are making 10 bucks on them, so 365 as a fair estimate, assuming 330 bucks to manufacture the hardware itself, there is then cost for the controller headset and cables, packaging, shipping and the labor cost involved in all of these processes, they arent making money on these things, otherwise the division would be in the black and it isnt, even with game sales as good as they are it isnt in the black quarter to quarter...... this should indicate a major loss SOMEWHERE, and as the 360 is 99% of that division revenue wise, its gotta be the hardware.

Care to share some links that show where I can purchase a 360 for $375 from a wholesaler.

Here is link about some linked wholesale 360 prices.

http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGurHuddGu08210326

 

[gcfan2k5]

Care to share some links that show where I can purchase a 360 for $375 from a wholesaler.

Here is link about some linked wholesale 360 prices.

http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGurHuddGu08210326

Links would be difficult considering most wholesale/dropshipper websites that consumers could make use of come with a monthly fee before you can view inventory/prices. I bought my (2nd) 360 premium brand new 4 months ago for 371 dollars including shipping, take that however youd like, but 360 ISNT making money, the division is heavily in the red and games are selling fine, it can only be the hardware causing that. That link shows what one particular retailer pays for the items, that doesnt neccesarily apply to all retailers, as most of them move more volume than some of the wholesalers/dropshippers consumers use for their small business can handle.

More to the point though i showed evidence that microsoft is cooking (legally or illegally, dont know dont care) the figures for 360 up to be about 3 million higher than they actually are currently. People actually BELIEVE MS sold 10.4mln as of december and are at over 11.5m now sales wise, when the truth of the matter is they are at 9 - 9.5mln at best based on sales.

 

[KeithFranklin]

Links would be difficult considering most wholesale/dropshipper websites that consumers could make use of come with a monthly fee before you can view inventory/prices. I bought my (2nd) 360 premium brand new 4 months ago for 371 dollars including shipping, take that however youd like, but 360 ISNT making money, the division is heavily in the red and games are selling fine, it can only be the hardware causing that. That link shows what one particular retailer pays for the items, that doesnt neccesarily apply to all retailers, as most of them move more volume than some of the wholesalers/dropshippers consumers use for their small business can handle.

So your talking about a wholesaler purchasing club which you pay a fee to join. They make thier money in other ways and sometimes take a loss on a product to show value to members. The last quarter the whole division was in the red, but they we all know they overproduced on 2 products which means they pay for the production that last quarter and will see revenue in future quarters. MS expects FY08 to be profitable. That doesnt mean that FY07 Q3 and Q4 will be in the red. Like I said it will be interesting to see what happened in FY07 Q3 when MS announces results on April 26th since they probably only produced XBOX 360 elites in FY07 Q3. Nearly all the 360's sold in this past quarter were paid for in the previous quarter.

 

[KeithFranklin]

More to the point though i showed evidence that microsoft is cooking (legally or illegally, dont know dont care) the figures for 360 up to be about 3 million higher than they actually are currently. People actually BELIEVE MS sold 10.4mln as of december and are at over 11.5m now sales wise, when the truth of the matter is they are at 9 - 9.5mln at best based on sales.

Something that all other manufacturers do. At least MS shipped means in transit to retailers not in transit to distribution centers. Both Sony and Nintendo have done the exact same thing in the past. Nintendo shut down production of GCN one quarter simply because they shipped so many the previous quarter. Sony produced a measly amount of PSP (I believe this was 2006 fourth quarter (Not fiscal) because they had overproduced so much to boost PR statements about sales. So get off the high horse about how bad MS is.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Something that all other manufacturers do. At least MS shipped means in transit to retailers not in transit to distribution centers. Both Sony and Nintendo have done the exact same thing in the past. Nintendo shut down production of GCN one quarter simply because they shipped so many the previous quarter. Sony produced a measly amount of PSP (I believe this was 2006 fourth quarter (Not fiscal) because they had overproduced so much to boost PR statements about sales. So get off the high horse about how bad MS is.

The difference is MS touts shipped as sold,to try to bullshit its way into higher numbers on paper, nintendo only announces SOLD TO CONSUMERS, not shipped, and i didnt say shit about sony one way or another. The only reason they announced shipped this past year is because for them shipped and sold are the same, since DS and now wii arent keeping up with demand. Even nintendos PR statements have always used sold to consumers data, and when they use shipped data they clearly state shipped, not sold.

 

[KeithFranklin]

The difference is MS touts shipped as sold,to try to bullshit its way into higher numbers on paper, nintendo only announces SOLD TO CONSUMERS, not shipped, and i didnt say shit about sony one way or another. The only reason they announced shipped this past year is because for them shipped and sold are the same, since DS and now wii arent keeping up with demand. Even nintendos PR statements have always used sold to consumers data, and when they use shipped data they clearly state shipped, not sold.

Oh MS is so evil.

I find it so funny that in this industry the only firm that has ever been convicted of bad things is Nintendo. The only player that is making a profit on the hardware (Talking consoles not handhelds, I dont pay attention to them) is Nintendo. Yet they are held up as the good guys by so many of you. Here in a industry where traditionally the profit is made on the software and hardware is sold at cost or for a loss. Nintendo sits making around $100 per console sold. You guys say way to go Nintendo. In other words your cheering them for taking extra money from you.

It will be interesting to see if other people experienced what I did last week when a neighbor stopped by. My son was playing Call of Duty 3 on the 360 in the family room. The neighbor said damn COD3 on thier Wii doesnt look at all like that. Well I said Nintendo sold you a basically a GameCube souped up a little with a new controller. That is the truth and they are making a killing off of that fact.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Oh MS is so evil.

I find it so funny that in this industry the only firm that has ever been convicted of bad things is Nintendo. The only player that is making a profit on the hardware (Talking consoles not handhelds, I dont pay attention to them) is Nintendo. Yet they are held up as the good guys by so many of you. Here in a industry where traditionally the profit is made on the software and hardware is sold at cost or for a loss. Nintendo sits making around $100 per console sold. You guys say way to go Nintendo. In other words your cheering them for taking extra money from you.

It will be interesting to see if other people experienced what I did last week when a neighbor stopped by. My son was playing Call of Duty 3 on the 360 in the family room. The neighbor said damn COD3 on thier Wii doesnt look at all like that. Well I said Nintendo sold you a basically a GameCube souped up a little with a new controller. That is the truth and they are making a killing off of that fact.

The truth is the wii has three times as many transistors as gamecube had, and is running 50% faster, if nothing else was changed, its over 3 times as powerful, it has over three times as much fast memory, and that doesnt matter. Nintendo makes profit on everything it does, thats what a business is SUPPOSED TO DO, and when they give me a machine for roughly half the price of the nearest competition, thats doing me a favor, they couldve charged more for wii if they wanted. (360 premium with a game would run me at LEAST 420 bucks, add in wifi thats another 100 bucks for 520 bucks to get the same basic value out of the machine featurewise.) or 300 for a core plus 40 for a memory card plus 100 for wifi plus 20 for a game = 460 bucks, and you only get 1/8th as much storage as nintendo gives you with wii by going that route.

 

[schuelma]

Oh MS is so evil.

I find it so funny that in this industry the only firm that has ever been convicted of bad things is Nintendo. The only player that is making a profit on the hardware (Talking consoles not handhelds, I dont pay attention to them) is Nintendo. Yet they are held up as the good guys by so many of you. Here in a industry where traditionally the profit is made on the software and hardware is sold at cost or for a loss. Nintendo sits making around $100 per console sold. You guys say way to go Nintendo. In other words your cheering them for taking extra money from you.

It will be interesting to see if other people experienced what I did last week when a neighbor stopped by. My son was playing Call of Duty 3 on the 360 in the family room. The neighbor said damn COD3 on thier Wii doesnt look at all like that. Well I said Nintendo sold you a basically a GameCube souped up a little with a new controller. That is the truth and they are making a killing off of that fact.

So paying 250 dollars for a console and a packed in game= Nintendo ripping me off, but paying 400 or 600 dollars equals great value?

Good thing the rest of the world doesn't think like you


And my God how spoiled you sound! "The company is supposed to LOSE money when they sell me their console, not actually make a profit! What are these businesses thinking" :lol :lol

 

[gcfan2k5]

So paying 250 dollars for a console and a packed in game= Nintendo ripping me off, but paying 400 or 600 dollars equals great value?

Good thing the rest of the world doesn't think like you


And my God how spoiled you sound! "The company is supposed to LOSE money when they sell me their console, not actually make a profit! What are these businesses thinking" :lol :lol

I agree, just because sony and microsoft cant compete while making profit, doesnt mean nintendo should suddenly start bleeding money out of its ass for the hell of it, if nintendo can win (and they are winning) and make more money doing it (and they are, to the tune of 2.2bln/year profits) more power to them. Wii is a much better value for the buck in terms of features and if you arent a spoiled little graphics whore, wii is more than fine considering its capable of larger worlds, and better graphics across the spectrum than anything we saw last gen (mario galaxy is proving this).

 

[FightyF]

Since never. Afaik Microsoft still loses money on the hardware.

Stop right there!

And head over HERE...you gots some splainin' to do!

So paying 250 dollars for a console and a packed in game= Nintendo ripping me off, but paying 400 or 600 dollars equals great value?

Good thing the rest of the world doesn't think like you

You aren't factoring in the differences in hardware.

That was probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on GAF since I started posting in '97.

 

[jimbo]

It's not much, but the Wii more than doubled the 360's sales in the U.K last week- 25K to 11K.

I think the part that needs to be pointed out is last week. If it's the first week of Wii shipments in who knows how long, does it really mean anything? What about the weeks where there were NO Wii shipments?

 

[LAMBO]

You can't blame Nintendo for pricing their product well and MS and SONY going totally insane with their pricing. I don't care what is under the hood of a console, i'm not paying $600, or $400 +accesories and online fees. I doubt the next xbox and psx will be so expensive.

 

[schuelma]

You aren't factoring in the differences in hardware.

That was probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on GAF since I started posting in '97.

And I personally do not care about the differences in hardware enough to pay 300-400 more for a game machine. And judging by the sales numbers, more people agree with me, pure and simple. Its all about priorities. If someone is dead set on going HD, then yeah the PS3 and 360 are decent values. If someone just wants to play video games for an hour a day, paying 250 dollars and being able to play right out of the gate is the better value.


For the 80% of the country that has a standard TV, how in the hell could the PS2 or 360 premium be considered a better value?

 

[schuelma]

I think the part that needs to be pointed out is last week. If it's the first week of Wii shipments in who knows how long, does it really mean anything? What about the weeks where there were NO Wii shipments?

Well, Nintendo has stated they've sold 2m in Europe...if that's true there is no way the Wii isn't consistently outselling the 360.

 

[StevieP]

Keith, here's something that may shock you. Nintendo isn't making over $100 per Wii (around $40, FYI), and it isn't duct-taped Gamecubes, contrary to what you and the rest of GAF want to believe. CoD3 looks like a PS2 game because Activision and Treyarch CHOSE the path of laziness, not because that's what the Wii's capable of. Did your neighbour also comment on how clunky your analog controls were?

Look it's no secret that I'm an EAD/IntSys whore, nor that Nintendo is making money on their platform, nor even that the Wii's GPU won't be pushing the same amount of polys that the 360/PS3 ever will, but what does it matter when Nintendo is greatly outselling both of its competitors combined? All on the backs of the casual consumers that Sony and MS have failed to attract with their high-powered expensive consoles. That's the bottom line.

 

[professor_t]

The truth is the wii has three times as many transistors as gamecube had, and is running 50% faster, if nothing else was changed, its over 3 times as powerful, it has over three times as much fast memory, and that doesnt matter. Nintendo makes profit on everything it does, thats what a business is SUPPOSED TO DO, and when they give me a machine for roughly half the price of the nearest competition, thats doing me a favor, they couldve charged more for wii if they wanted. (360 premium with a game would run me at LEAST 420 bucks, add in wifi thats another 100 bucks for 520 bucks to get the same basic value out of the machine featurewise.) or 300 for a core plus 40 for a memory card plus 100 for wifi plus 20 for a game = 460 bucks, and you only get 1/8th as much storage as nintendo gives you with wii by going that route.

Wow, it's three times more powerful? I guess the games didn't get the memo.

 

[KeithFranklin]

The truth is the wii has three times as many transistors as gamecube had, and is running 50% faster, if nothing else was changed, its over 3 times as powerful, it has over three times as much fast memory, and that doesnt matter. Nintendo makes profit on everything it does, thats what a business is SUPPOSED TO DO, and when they give me a machine for roughly half the price of the nearest competition, thats doing me a favor, they couldve charged more for wii if they wanted. (360 premium with a game would run me at LEAST 420 bucks, add in wifi thats another 100 bucks for 520 bucks to get the same basic value out of the machine featurewise.) or 300 for a core plus 40 for a memory card plus 100 for wifi plus 20 for a game = 460 bucks, and you only get 1/8th as much storage as nintendo gives you with wii by going that route.

Not going into what you need for your setup (WiFi and all). For a machine that has so much more power none of the games really show it (Not even the Nintendo first party titles). In fact the two best games for the Wii are just GCN games (Zelda and SPM).

The industry (Even Nintendo in the past) sold the consoles for cost or loss. What I get for $400 is far more than what you got for $250. In fact you got $150 worth of product (The way this industry has traditionally worked) for $250. Plus you got a tech demo of a game. And look Nintendo is doing it again with WiiPlay and another Wiimote. Nintendo faithful going gaga over the sales of WiiPlay. When in fact we all know people are buying a 2nd controller and getting a little bonus. Maybe the sales of Whacked on the XBOX should be adjusted because it came with the first XBOX live starter kit.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Wow, it's three times more powerful? I guess the games didn't get the memo.

Developers got caught with their pants down, they didnt think it would sell like it is, so they didnt bother to support it, they are paying the price for that mistake as we speak, games will start rolling out that go beyond what cube or xbox could do later this year, early next year, mario galaxy for a start is significantly better in every way than any last gen game.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Not going into what you need for your setup (WiFi and all). For a machine that has so much more power none of the games really show it (Not even the Nintendo first party titles). In fact the two best games for the Wii are just GCN games (Zelda and SPM).

The industry (Even Nintendo in the past) sold the consoles for cost or loss. What I get for $400 is far more than what you got for $250. In fact you got $150 worth of product (The way this industry has traditionally worked) for $250. Plus you got a tech demo of a game. And look Nintendo is doing it again with WiiPlay and another Wiimote. Nintendo faithful going gaga over the sales of WiiPlay. When in fact we all know people are buying a 2nd controller and getting a little bonus. Maybe the sales of Whacked on the XBOX should be adjusted because it came with the first XBOX live starter kit.

Super Mario Galaxy is phong shaded, with per pixel lighting, bumpmapping all over the place, textures that are way beyond any last gen game in terms of resolution, polycounts far exceeding a typical last gen game, normal mapping on some surfaces, and much much more, in worlds that appear to have extremely long draw distances. It sounds to me like devs were just lazy, things will start to change later this year.

 

[PkunkFury]

The industry (Even Nintendo in the past) sold the consoles for cost or loss. What I get for $400 is far more than what you got for $250. In fact you got $150 worth of product (The way this industry has traditionally worked) for $250.

I can't believe this is still going on. You know we live in a capitalist society. The market dictates the value of products, not the components inside of them. The Wii is completely sold out at 250 dollars a console, and people are still lining up to buy one. Please give us one sane reason why Nintendo should have sold the hardware for less

By this same token the market has dictated the PS3 is not worth 600 dollars. The technology inside of it is in fact less valuable then people on this board realise

 

[schuelma]

Not going into what you need for your setup (WiFi and all). For a machine that has so much more power none of the games really show it (Not even the Nintendo first party titles). In fact the two best games for the Wii are just GCN games (Zelda and SPM).

The industry (Even Nintendo in the past) sold the consoles for cost or loss. What I get for $400 is far more than what you got for $250. In fact you got $150 worth of product (The way this industry has traditionally worked) for $250. Plus you got a tech demo of a game. And look Nintendo is doing it again with WiiPlay and another Wiimote. Nintendo faithful going gaga over the sales of WiiPlay. When in fact we all know people are buying a 2nd controller and getting a little bonus. Maybe the sales of Whacked on the XBOX should be adjusted because it came with the first XBOX live starter kit.

You expose yourself with the tech demo comment. Well maybe not expose yourself as its your honest opinion...but anyways, what people on this board are largely failing to realize is that to the world at large (basically everyone outside of this board), Wii Sports isn't merely a "tech demo"- its an interactive experience they've never had before when playing video games. It's a complete and total killer app. To them (well me, I guess) Wii Sports has GREAT and substantial value. It gives me an experience I cannot get on any other system and is worth a lot more than 20 or 30 bucks or however much Nintendo would charge for the game.