adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
When the slide says people are spending 50% more on games when subbed, compared to people who don't sub, what else do you think it means ?
When the slide says people are spending 50% more on games when subbed, compared to people who don't sub, what else do you think it means ?
RevGaming
Member
How many games you bought each year in 2014-2017 vs 2019-2022? Specifically on Xbox.
Ask your friends who joined Gamepass. How many before and after subbing. Compare.
Correlate it with the 50% MS says.
Just answer. How many each year for those years?
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ZehDon
Member
The DirectStorage video was interesting. The comments about not being able to replace the base Win32 IO calls 1:1 is interesting, because it means we'll need to see developers create bespoke implementations. The host commented that doing so will typically results in slower IO performance, so Dev's will need to do a lot of experimenting I suspect. We might not see the payoff for DirectStorage for a while.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Nothing like a little microsoft game pass information to get a certain section of Gafs members knickers in a twist.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
But why do you need my sample data when those slides already have sample data for you to observe lol.
In my particular case, I have been subscribed to GP since the Series X came out so I don't have a point of reference of a timeframe where I was without GP this generation, if you're interested in that knowledge.
But Kingfey, as another example, has said many a times in this and other topics that game pass has allowed him to be able to make more informed purchasing decisions.
I realize console wars have no bounds, but the arguments against Gamepass are just sad.
kingfey
Banned
How many games do you buy a year?
RevGaming
Member
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It means the people who have GamePass subs buy the most games.
It does not mean that GamePass is the cause of that.
One easy way of showing that the correlation is likely a causation would be to provide "before an after" numbers.
MS hasn't done that... despite saying people do "before and after" play more games, they have not said they buy more, or increase their overall spend.
I dont' get why you guys are arguing this so much. It's pretty basic stuff.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ok, but that directly contradicts the other point some folks like to make, that xbox owners with GP subs just wait for the games to come to the service, they don't buy anything.
This shows directly the opposite. Whether GP is the direct cause or not, we don't know that, but we do know empirically that people who are subbed to GP spend more than people who aren't, DESPITE being subbed to the service.
I am not sure why some users on GAF feel the need to hold MS responsible to divulge these kind of numbers related to exact purchasing, spending and dollar amounts before and after.
Has any other console manufacturer revealed these kind of stats ? Relating to PS Now or Nintendo's online ?
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
And I agree; Xbox regularly outpaces it's installbase difference in 3rd party sales against Sony. Granted Sony also sells more 1st party games, so that accounts for how Xbox often "outpaces" but people on Xbox are still buying games, and GamePass members are the most hardcore of the base.
"Xbox gamers don't buy games" is just fanboy drivel.
Don't get me wrong it's fine that MS doesn't release numbers. I said earlier I don't think it's some grand conspiracy.
I'm just super curious as I am fascinated to see how well the business model is actually working.
I'm not here bashing MS for not putting out that fact, just wishing they would.
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I assume they have the data to compare sub vs not for the same individual.
Craig of War
Banned
ErRor88
Member
Forspoken dev says one-second game loads are now a tentative reality on PC
Microsoft DirectStorage + NVMe
www.theverge.com
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Of course they do; I wish they'd say the average spend change.
Mister Wolf
Member
Fess
Member
Why is this happening?
Meanwhile at my end I'm about to close in on 1.5 years without spending a cent on Xbox except the GP subscription cost.
onesvenus
Member
Meanwhile I've bought more games and dlc I ever did. Funny how stats work, isn't it?Why is this happening?
Meanwhile at my end I'm about to close in on 1.5 years without spending a cent on Xbox except the GP subscription cost.
Fess
Member
I'm having more games than I can play through Gamepass, didn't buy a single game during 2021. I nearly bought Tunic though but then it arrived on GP.
Edit: However, I'm one of those constantly complaining about Microsoft's lacking games output this year so to be fair I guess it could be a problem I've somewhat created myself.
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What does this have to do with Gamepass?
All indications are that Xbox is increasing funding for AAA titles, not decreasing. Take Hellblade 2, for example.
Craig of War
Banned
They are increasing they have like 30 plus games in development we already know like half of them and most are AAA multi million budget
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Curiosity can work as a means of grabbing attention, I agree with that. But WOM as a means of creating a sense of curiosity isn't the only means and I think for a lot of games in particular, can't effectively be the only means of creating it or generating interest in the game. Traditional marketing methods can be specifically curated to tell stories of their own, or tell a certain lifestyle or "vibe", that can inspire people, including many normal folks, into the product.
Advertising, traditional advertising, it can work as a very creative medium because the best type of marketing tends to be heavily creative-driven. Games are heavily creative-driven products, since their purpose is entertainment. WOM works as a supplemental means of marketing, but it's like Twitch streaming when it comes to gaming. You may have a game that becomes viral because of popular streamers playing it, that's WOM. But there's at least one streamer out of that lot, the source, who was probably sold on the game due to seeing it through a traditional advertising route.
Yes and no. One of the reasons Netflix grew in subscriptions is because people knew they could get shows like The Office and Breaking Bad on it. Stuff they already knew about, stuff they knew about beforehand due to catching it on tv, probably through traditional advertising means.
People weren't subscribing to Netflix just because it was a streaming service offering good value; they knew it also provided movies and shows they already cared about due to seeing those works previously, or seeing marketing for them through traditional advertising means.
Now this is all subjective opinion, and something of a reach. At the very least, you'd get a lot of people who would consider Returnal and R&C as quality as Ori, and you can't shortchange the importance of visual fidelity (or even the perception of higher quality from pricing) in aiding the overall experience. I also personally don't think a game's length should be indicative of its quality; a short game of five hours but leaves an impact through the experience holds more value to me than a long game of fifty hours worth less than the sum of its parts.
And just speaking more in the general market of things, whether you think it a good or bad thing, most people automatically have a perception of higher quality for any type of game that isn't 2D or 2D-like. It's been this way since 1995 more or less once 3D became mainstream in console gaming. Same as how 3D CGI films have an inbuilt perception of being higher quality and value than a 2D animated film these days by many people (at least in the West), and it's basically been that way since the early 2000s'.
That's not me making a judgement of quality on the Ori games, but I also don't agree it's fair to try saying Returnal and Rift Apart aren't quality (or as quality as the Ori games) by metrics which really don't matter.
I still want to clarify that even in those cases, WOM alone is an inferior means of fully effective advertising, even for the big games. First off you have to consider that a lot of the mainstream still don't know what GamePass is; even if they find out, the way Microsoft handles advertising, relying almost 100% on WOM and social media to propel games in the service, isn't going to be particularly effective for a lot of those people.
Take Twitter for instance; if you aren't in a friend group or circle where a group of people are spreading awareness via WOM on a game, you aren't going to know about it anyway. If that circle isn't large enough, that game isn't going to start trending on social media. TBH I have seen games trend on Twitter, but I've never seen any GamePass titles trend there. Maybe I haven't seen enough, but that's been my experience.
It's because of stuff like that why traditional advertising is still a necessity IMO, and will always remain that way. And more importantly, getting back to what my original point really was, even among those "in the know", I just feel that a lot of games that are on GamePass or would be bound to go there in the future (especially as Day 1 releases) would benefit a lot from being focused on in a way where marketing can do an onion layer-like peeling of features or elements of the game, with gameplay updates showing those features, over the course of a few months leading up to launch.
Craft a story around the gradual reveal of the game itself, up to the game's launch. Again, I think they're doing a decent job with Starfield in this regard, though holding out gameplay until a very specific time isn't ideal IMO. My thing is, Microsoft could do this with all of their big games. I don't see why seasonal updates for games that are say a year out from release, can't be done, since they're games which would've already been revealed earlier.
pasterpl
Member
Look-alike modeling is a process that identifies people who look and act just like your target audiences. look alike are not non VP members as some in this thread trying to spin it. It is more complex, lookalikes usually means user group showing similar behaviours to the main group. Eg. People playing similar/same games but not via gp, people playing similar/same amount of games, people spending similar/same amount of time playing games etc. if they would mean non-go users they would simply say so.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
whats crazy is, how good direct storage is but let's be honest. As long as you have SATA SSD you are golden, who cares about 1.9 seconds vs 3.7 I barely had time to check the far left NVME screen and the SATA drive had loaded.
Direct storage will be a game changer for PC. I want it now!
onesvenus
Member
Wether people buy games or not, Microsoft is lacking games this year, at least for now
Jimmyisback
Banned
People continue to be triggered by postive game pass news. Unbelievable.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Why is this happening?
Meanwhile at my end I'm about to close in on 1.5 years without spending a cent on Xbox except the GP subscription cost.
The beauty of diversity
Thirty7ven
Banned
Except sample sizes will be a ridiculous comparison. At 25 million GP subscribers in a system with the lowest software attach ratio, with 55 million total users? I'm supposed to believe the other half will be just as active? Sell me a bridge. Make it cloudy. Make me think I'm buying the river flowing underneath it.
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kingfey
Banned
Except PS still has psnow at 3m for 8 years. You might need to work on your logic a little bit.
Thirty7ven
Banned
What are you even talking about? PSNow is a failure, who said otherwise???
LAL models beyond a certain seed size doesn't really change that much. How do you think this is working, specifically the analysis?
kingfey
Banned
Its because Console users dont jump on a service fast. Same as how psnow is still at 3m. General Xbox players are still skeptical about this service.
It took bethesda and last E3 to get 7m users.
It wont grab xbox users that much, until they get the games they want. So numbers would be low.
These other people will prefer buying games, instead of the subscription service.
Riky
$MSFT
Sony are doubling down on it very soon.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I'm assuming they aren't comparing a thousand people.
kingfey
Banned
They are comparing before gamepass and after gamepass.
People before gamepass buy games. People after gamepass increase their buying habits.
The more games that you are exposed, the more your buying decision become better.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I don't really understand what you are saying, but if you think it's possible for 100% of Xbox users to buy into gamepass, then that's extremely far fetched.
PS+, which you need to play online only reaches half or less than half of PS userbase.
Xbox Live we don't know because MS again stopped reporting numbers other than "users" that include people who play Minecraft on PlayStation and PC for example.
MS buys Acti to convert PC/mobile users into gamepass. Their Xbox gamepass userbase doesn't have that much room to grow and they can't sell consoles fast enough to help it.
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Fess
Member
They are, but I mean I could've bought some multiplats. The Xbox is just in a weird spot for me, for better or worse it has become my living room Gamepass box, and this year hasn't been so exciting on Gamepass so far. Tunic is awesome though!
Yes and it's not for the first time in a MS video.
Not specifically towards yourself but if it doesn't harm you, I would suggest just ignoring it cause its not for you.
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GymWolf
Member
Yeah i know it's not the first time, this shit is fucking hilarious, why in the hell i would want to ignore it??
Do you ignore free comedy gold?
Bit weird to find it funny given its something to help a blind person who might find it engaging but you do you.
kingfey
Banned
That is impossible, because 1/5th of xbox users are still kids. It won't match the overall all xbox users.
Gamepass is alone on pc too. That 25m is total of pc+Xbox. Not all xbox. So you have 30m+ whatever the split of gamepass is, that is not subscribed to gamepass.
That is due to SP gamers, and F2p gamers not needing ps+ to play it. Kudos to Sony for that. Much better, than forcing online function on f2p games.
Xbox live at this point, means nothing. Like you stated, all xbox games would require xbox live account to play it. Its not an ideal solution to determine the number if xbox users.
Gamepass is all about what it offers. People sub it for different reason. RPg, racing, Horror games, etc. And the idea of paying $15 a month to access those games.
As for room to grow, they have PC. PC players join gamepass to play to those gamepass pc games. That is why gamepass is 25m right now.
For the future, most xbox users might sub to the service, but the push for higher numbers would come from the pc side.
All of call of duty games would drop on the service. This should increase the pc gamepass users.
One key to note, is that people will still buy games. MS cant afford all the games on their store to put it on gamepass. As long as that option exist, games will sell. Gamepass also have buying option. So you can buy the games you want. 3rd party games leave after 1 year. People will have the option to buy it.
Only way these can stop, is if MS is stupid enough to remove the buying option.
RevGaming
Member
RevGaming
Member
Stop spreading lies. It doesn't say that. Learn how to interpret stats. You had a day to get it.
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kingfey
Banned
So you are still dumb about it. Guess, you have hard time understanding it.
RevGaming
Member
It doesn't say people spend more after subbing LMFAO.
It just says the people who sub are more frequent spenders.
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kingfey
Banned
So where do people spend their money on?
RevGaming
Member
They don't LMFAO.
That's the point lol.
It doesn't say since they save money with gamepass, they buy more games out of gamepass.
You're making stuff up.
They aren't spending more. They're probably spending less since they get the games. Why would they spend more if they have more games for less????
They can spend less and still spend 50% more than non GP users. That's the whole argument.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
So you're basically saying they're outright lying with this info ?
Do you have anything to back up what you're saying ?
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