Microsoft implies DirectX 12 functionality will work on Xbox One

Chettlar said:
Clever things never lose it. Things like that that have only existed for a year or less are forced and unfunny. There's a clear difference. Banderas.gif is hilarious because it's classic. You're joke is not classic.

Of course not, but nobody (in this thread at least) are seriously saying that it will be the Second Coming. Let's disregard redditors for a moment, shall we?

There has to be some sort of difference. If devs can already code to the metal, then what can MS possibly have to sell dx12 on?
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My last words on this humor subject: Only classic things are funny? This means they are not funny before they become classics. So every classic has, by that definition, a period of being not funny - hence it can't become a classic. Paradox time!

Please don't be angry at me for not having such an advanced and impeccable sense of humor as you yourself obviously has (I'm still learning the ropes on this new Internet phenomena). Now I know that Gold membership is not funny, but Banderas is. Thank you for teaching me!

Agree to disagree?

Aaaaaand back on topic:
My point is, that in my opinion, Microsoft can sell DX 12 on its new features, one of which is coding to the metal. This has a large impact on PC performance, but not so big an impact on console performance.
 
Chettlar said:
I guess then I would wonder why MS is suddenly concerned with helping out PC gaming. They didn't seem concerned about that last gen. Why would they now? Sure, they switched to x86 but both they and Sony said that that was for the developers. The fact that PC games also use x86 had nothing to do with the decision directly.

So why do they suddenly care? Wouldn't they want to discourage PC gaming? (I mean, I would think no, but since everything MS does lately seem like a war on PC, this seems like a random step in the opposite direction if you look at it from that stand point.
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Because if people can use DX12 for everything (Phones, PC, Consoles, Cats) then they are more likely to make games on it, if they make games on it they are more likely to port it other platforms, if they port it to other platforms then Microsoft has more games on the XB1.
 
KidBeta said:
Because if people can use DX12 for everything (Phones, PC, Consoles, Cats) then they are more likely to make games on it, if they make games on it they are more likely to port it other platforms, if they port it to other platforms then Microsoft has more games on the XB1.
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So you're saying in the event that devs make a game for PS4 and PC that then devs would be further encouraged to port to Xbone?

Isn't PC usually the one getting left out? Xbox is practically always getting a port. Why does the Xbox One need this? Devs are going to do it anyway.

Fangrim said:
My last words on this humor subject: Only classic things are funny? This means they are not funny before they become classics. So every classic has, by that definition, a period of being not funny - hence it can't become a classic. Paradox time!

Please don't be angry at me for not having such an advanced and impeccable sense of humor as you yourself obviously has (I'm still learning the ropes on this new Internet phenomena). Now I know that Gold membership is not funny, but Banderas is. Thank you for teaching me!

Agree to disagree?

Aaaaaand back on topic:
My point is, that in my opinion, Microsoft can sell DX 12 on its new features, one of which is coding to the metal. This has a large impact on PC performance, but not so big an impact on console performance.
Click to expand...

Some things become classic and some don't. Classic things stay funny after a long period of time. Banderas.gif is a classic because it's still funny. Kind of a truism here.

Positive things like that that are genuinely funny stay funny. Aside from being negative, your thing is not clever in the least, so it was never funny to begin with. Lame jokes are lame. This is the kind of joke that works best on "It's funny because it's true." Unfortunately, it's not true. At all.

Sorry. I just keep seeing it around and it seem people are more interested in making a "smart" post than actually contributing.

/rant.
 
Heretic said:
Lol this is such a stupid comment.








E3 should be really fun this year!
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I'd say it's more of an ignorant comment. I'm like the poster above, and trying to understand why all of a sudden Microsoft would be interested in helping PC gaming again. Everything they've done since the Xbox 360 released has either been for the betterment of their own console, or an attempt to gain more control over the PC space (paying for GFWL online). Now they're teasing that the Xbox One is going to utilize DX12, which is to be expected, but I have a hard time believing these improvements are focused on the PC.
 
I look forward to this talk mainly because misterxmedia has been rewriting his bullshit around it being the key to uncork the dgpu secret sauce. It's like reading a mental breakdown and this is looking to be the event that will fry his brain for good.

That said with the insane money spent designing the Xbox chip it would be stupid if Microsoft didn't put a few dx12 hooks in there but who knows. Could be why Microsoft is so far behind in sdk quality, dx12 team is behind schedule.
 
MS are doing Direct 12 as reactionary move to Mantle, they still want DirectX to be the de-facto API for game development, and Mantle popularity is rising, so they're copying its features and adding them to DirectX 12.
 
Chobel said:
MS are doing Direct 12 as reactionary move to Mantle, they still want DirectX to be the de-facto API for game development.
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That makes a lot of sense, sure.

Still doesn't explain why MS would go to the effort of putting it on the Xbox One, though. This stuff costs money.
 
Chettlar said:
That makes a lot of sense, sure.

Still doesn't explain why MS would go to the effort of putting it on the Xbox One, though. This stuff costs money.
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Because porting PC games from/to xbone should be easier if they share the same API. Xbone already is using DirectX 11.x, if DirectX 12 is supported too, it should make any PC game code (Whatever DirectX version) easily portable to xbone.
 
KidBeta said:
Because if people can use DX12 for everything (Phones, PC, Consoles, Cats) then they are more likely to make games on it, if they make games on it they are more likely to port it other platforms, if they port it to other platforms then Microsoft has more games on the XB1.
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Falls in line with the belief of what Windows blue is trying to accomplish with Windows, RT, Windows Phone, and XB1 operating systems. A more unified system that allows app use across platforms.
 
Chobel said:
Because porting PC games from/to xbone should be easier if they share the same API.
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Yes but what I said earlier:

"So you're saying in the event that devs make a game for PS4 and PC that then devs would be further encouraged to port to Xbone?

Isn't PC usually the one getting left out? Xbox is practically always getting a port. Why does the Xbox One need this? Devs are going to do it anyway."

Seriously, when have developers ever not made a game for a console because the console took money to port to? The PS3 is the only one I know of and the Xbox One isn't anywhere near as hard to develope for as that. Heck, it's likely easier than the 360. Sure this would be great for devs, but what does MS stand to gain from it? Devs are going to port their games anyway, and if they don't, it will be for other reasons. So why is MS doing this?
 
Chettlar said:
Yes but what I said earlier:

"So you're saying in the event that devs make a game for PS4 and PC that then devs would be further encouraged to port to Xbone?

Isn't PC usually the one getting left out? Xbox is practically always getting a port. Why does the Xbox One need this? Devs are going to do it anyway."

Seriously, when have developers ever not made a game for a console because the console took money to port to? The PS3 is the only one I know of and the Xbox One isn't anywhere near as hard to develope for as that. Heck, it's likely easier than the 360. Sure this would be great for devs, but what does MS stand to gain from it? Devs are going to port their games anyway, and if they don't, it will be for other reasons. So why is MS doing this?
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Because people are generally less apprehensive about doing something if it costs less money, which it will if you don't need to rewrite most of your engine to use a new API. Think about it as the ultimate personification of lazy developers if you really want too :P
 
Chettlar said:
So you're saying in the event that devs make a game for PS4 and PC that then devs would be further encouraged to port to Xbone?

Isn't PC usually the one getting left out? Xbox is practically always getting a port. Why does the Xbox One need this? Devs are going to do it anyway.
Click to expand...

PC has the largest library of exclusives and indie games, I don't doubt Microsoft wants some of that on the Xbone if only to compete with Sony's efforts with small developers (which happens to lead some of those games to be PS4+PC only).
 
Chettlar said:
Yes but what I said earlier:

"So you're saying in the event that devs make a game for PS4 and PC that then devs would be further encouraged to port to Xbone?

Isn't PC usually the one getting left out? Xbox is practically always getting a port. Why does the Xbox One need this? Devs are going to do it anyway."
Click to expand...

It could work both ways, from Xbone to PC or vice versa. And in the future expect that every game will coded in PC first then ported to PS4/Xbone, so instead of coding xbone version from scratch, they use PC code and optimize it to work well.

In general it means less time and less money to develop Xbone and PC version.
 
KidBeta said:
Because people are generally less apprehensive about doing something if it costs less money, which it will if you don't need to rewrite most of your engine to use a new API. Think about it as the ultimate personification of lazy developers if you really want too :P
Click to expand...

I know. I'm asking for examples of developers not ever doing this because of porting difficulty. To my knowledge there are none. The examples we have like octodad were for other reasons. Nothing to do with porting costs.

So, it sounds like a great reason, but I can't think of a single example of this happening specifically for that reason.
 
scitek said:
I'd say it's more of an ignorant comment. I'm like the poster above, and trying to understand why all of a sudden Microsoft would be interested in helping PC gaming again. Everything they've done since the Xbox 360 released has either been for the betterment of their own console, or an attempt to gain more control over the PC space (paying for GFWL online). Now they're teasing that the Xbox One is going to utilize DX12, which is to be expected, but I have a hard time believing these improvements are focused on the PC.
Click to expand...

Now that you have actually explained your concern, I can see why you made the earlier comments. I agree to a certain extent that they don't have the best software when it comes to meeting the needs of a pc gamer which is why they axed GFWL. The issue is that you are trying to compare DX11 with GFWL, which is trying to fill the needs of two entirely different sets of people. Microsoft made a misstep with GFWL, as better services were already available, but if we look at the amount of software they provide for professional use, no company even comes close. Developers chose to use DX11 and DX## because either that is what the engine they licensed runs on, or they purposely decided to build an engine around that api. Microsoft would have no interest in even labeling it DX12 or making a big release preview of DX12 if there were not new features that are made available on the pc side of things. Also, with the uncertainty around the Xbox division and Microsoft stating that they have continued interest in the pc, I fail to see why they would decide to cater an api specifically for the Xbox One with little regard for pc. Additionally, pc gaming is not going anywhere, and the need for a better api has been shown by developer's interest in Mantle. Remembering that AMD is not the most software savvy company with all the issues with drivers that they have in the past, it isn't hard to imagine that a software company like Microsoft would be well equip to develop an api that better suites pc gaming in general than mantle, although AMD does have the added benefit of specialized knowledge regarding cpu processes. Little gain was seen in the initial release of Mantle outside of low-mid end AMD CPUs, possibly some intel cpus as well. Microsoft may be able in DX12 to create a more generalized solution that helps increase performance for all cpu and gpu process, not just when graphical processes become bottlenecked in the CPU, which seems to be the case in the early implementation of Mantle.

Mantle is most likely going to lose relevance after Microsoft releases DX12 Carmack and Sweeney on the matter
 
Chobel said:
MS are doing Direct 12 as reactionary move to Mantle, they still want DirectX to be the de-facto API for game development, and Mantle popularity is rising, so they're copying its features and adding them to DirectX 12.
Click to expand...

I think DirectX 12 was probably in development for a long time man...
I mean it's not exactly surprising that another DirectX version is coming haha
 
IcyRhythms said:
Doesn't anyone feel like(I mean even just a little bit)

If the Xbox One has had "secret sauce" in DX12, wouldn't this have been a selling point for the hardcore/tech heads? Why wouldn't MS have mentioned this from the beginning?

Am I really to believe they didn't want to mention how the Xbox One is much better than the PS4 because MS wanted to wait until they were ready to talk about DX12 in full?
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Yeah its "very very" hard to believe MS would purposely not discuss or disclose and let the consumer know of all the strengths that sets it apart of their rival right before and during the first month of launch of their console. There is no way MS has been mysteriously hiding certain aspects of its console like some believe MS has not revealed all of its hidden power to the gamer/consumer yet, its like going off the deep end in thinking and rationalizing reality and besides MS to do such a thing it would just be disastrous marketing and wasted potential of sales.
 
Chobel said:
Because porting PC games from/to xbone should be easier if they share the same API. Xbone already is using DirectX 11.x, if DirectX 12 is supported too, it should make any PC game code (Whatever DirectX version) easily portable to xbone.
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This.. I don't think with gpgpu we need new gpu hardware implementation like we got with Tesselation on dx11 hardware. Could be interesting if some devs will implement their renderings pipeline in GPGPU :p

I will wait for the DX12 presentation/leaks and decide what my next project will be. I just wished ms would tell what other API like for concurrency/threading they use on the X1 that is shared with win8 or win32. So i could plan ahead and have an easier time porting some code when they release the native X1 SDK.
 
I am enjoying the crazies on Twitter tonight. TimDog is hilarious.

This is going to be such a disappointing gen for him if he's constantly expecting a giant jump for the xbox.
 
Garrett 2U said:
I think DirectX 12 was probably in development for a long time man...
I mean it's not exactly surprising that another DirectX version is coming haha
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They started developing it less than three months ago. There were no DX12 planned last Autumn.
I think that everyone who's saying that DX12 is a reaction to Mantle are right.
Another interesting question is where Nvidia is standing in the DX12 development effort. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's actually them who pushed MS to have Mantle-like DX extension.
 
illustri0us said:
Ok but that's still huge... Could've just gone off the shelf like sony, there's gotta be more to it somewhere
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What do you mean 'of the shelf ' ?

LR_41.jpg


because i'm looking at the Ps4 motherboard and it's a technical marvel. An assembly like this takes a lot of experience and customization on many levels, so i'm itching to hear your explanation.
 
I find it hard to believe that MS never intended to make another version of DX.
 
gofreak said:
If it's a revision aimed at overhead reduction it may not have a new feature set requirement. And you don't necessarily have to have a feature compliant gpu to use a later version of DX as the driver anyway.
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right. DX10 cards can run AvP in DX11 mode. It just doesn't use the DX 11 specific features when you do that. it's still running in DX11 though.
 
kensama said:
There is someone who see this article ---> http://gamingbolt.com/dx12-may-allow-xbox-one-to-save-gpu-time-render-ray-tracing-superfog-and-custom-effects ?

If anyone can comment on this article?
Click to expand...


In fact, the API won’t have anything to do with increasing the resolution to whatever the standard is these days. However, what it can do is free up GPU resources through efficient hardware acceleration. So effects like ray tracing, superFog or whatever custom effects we may see down the line will be implemented and thus allow for an improved frame rate and resolution now that the GPU is free for those tasks.

This passage should tell you everything you need to know about this article.
 
LooseLips said:
Interesting. What on earth could they accomplish that is so revolutionary in less than 12 weeks? Do you have a source for this?
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Let's wait for GDC for features reveal. But I strongly suspect that it'll be a "thin" API layer in much the same way as Mantle and Xbox/PS APIs are. It would be rather stupid if that'll be all that's going to be new in DX12 so I hope that we'll get some other new features...
 
I can't see this doing much for Xbox one. If they are targeting efficiencies then that could be good for PC, but Xbox should be using low level drivers already.

As for ease of porting, well isn't that already pretty straightforward for devs?
 
Chobel said:
Previously MS said there will be no more versions after DirectX 11.2.
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dr_rus said:
They started developing it less than three months ago. There were no DX12 planned last Autumn.
I think that everyone who's saying that DX12 is a reaction to Mantle are right.
Another interesting question is where Nvidia is standing in the DX12 development effort. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's actually them who pushed MS to have Mantle-like DX extension.
Click to expand...

Oh interesting, I didn't know that.
Definitely seems a bit reactionary then!
 
TimFL said:
Just because they did a lot of experiments with the tech doesn't mean that it'll appear on the XB1 (anytime soon). You know, companies do R&D all the time? Doesn't mean it will ever be feasible to introduce something like that, atleast not with the current infrastructure.
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I wasn't implying DX12 has real-time Raytracing features, just posting something Phil Spencer said about it.
 
I need to correct some info that I said before.

AMD are the ones who said that there will be no DirectX 12, not MS. My bad guys.
 
le.phat said:
In fact, the API won’t have anything to do with increasing the resolution to whatever the standard is these days. However, what it can do is free up GPU resources through efficient hardware acceleration. So effects like ray tracing, superFog or whatever custom effects we may see down the line will be implemented and thus allow for an improved frame rate and resolution now that the GPU is free for those tasks.

This passage should tell you everything you need to know about this article.
Click to expand...


Yeah but for example Killzone: Shadow Fall already used some ray tracing, etc... in accordance with the Guerilla PDF.
So i don't understand why to axe on this with DX12.


Jessie.Bristol said:
As for real-time Ray Tracing, Phil Spencer did say this: https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/439673026699751425
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I know it. ;)


Metalingus5150 said:
Well their source is a post on reddit.
That should tell you something.
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Yeah for me this is bullshit, but some people in France are like Misterxmedia followers and believe that DirectX12 will improve by a huge gap the performance of the Xbox One :D


Chobel said:
This article is a joke, right?
Click to expand...

We can consider it like that for me ;)
 
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