Support NeoGAF

[Diablohead]

Uh...shouldn't this have been expected?

For a console? not really, would this be the first time a console has had an update to improve something like this?

 

[jaypah]

Why do people bring misterxdingsbums into the discussion? Must it always be console wars bullshit that we have to dig through before I can read some legit and interesting posts from people like gofreak or Nirolak? Ugh....

Sorry Feef. I usually try to leave the stuff that happens outside of GAF where it is. Couldn't really help that one.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Ah yes, "it's all in good fun".
First thing that always comes up, like a Swiss clockwork.

Wait, you were actually serious with that first post of yours?
You find it difficult to distinguish joke posts about misterXmedia and "real" tech posts? Because I really think that's solely on you, not on the thread.

 

[scitek]

Never heard of a company putting out stuff that under performs compared to the competition and then having software that makes it performs better.

Spoiler

AMD CPUs and Mantle? (ignoring that they cost less than intel)

How is that gross, that is just good housekeeping of their product line.

I'm apparently sounding mentally unstable at this point, but what if there are exclusive features? Regardless, I don't think it'll catch on like they'd like simply due the widespread adoption of DX11.

 

[grkazan12]

So what do we say boys, exclusive to Windows 9? Yay or Nay

 

[derFeef]

Wait, you were actually serious with that first post of yours?
You find it difficult to distinguish joke posts about misterXmedia and "real" tech posts? Because I really think that's solely on you, not on the thread.

Uh, what? No.
I question the need for bringing those things up in the first place, because they are of no relevance. Not wanna derail further, though.

 

[Giant Panda]

From what we know, Xbox already has less overhead which seems to be the main feature of DX12, so I'm not sure if this will really make much of a difference, but I'm no expert.

 

[Green Yoshi]

I heard some rumors that the Xbox One had problems with DirectX 11 and uses its own API.

 

[jaypah]

I heard some rumors that the Xbox One had problems with DirectX 11 and uses its own API.

Really? Where did you hear that?

 

[domlolz]

Explain this to me like I'm five years old

A five year old wouldn't give a shit

 

[Qassim]

To be fair, it'd be odd if it didn't at least to some extent.

 

[Bsigg12]

I heard some rumors that the Xbox One had problems with DirectX 11 and uses its own API.

The SDK was behind at launch and may still be for all we know. It's something with time that will be worked out.

 

[le.phat]

When Panelo was talking about MS not giving up 30% because they invented DX, he was probably referring to DX12. Watch he will have the last laugh after Xbone games start running on DX12.

I'm sure that was exactly what he was talkibg about. 50% better hardware means nothing ib the face of directX!

 

[gruenel]

How many will relapse and go back to denial stage after reading this news?

People on reddit are already creaming themselves because of dat secret sauce. So many dreams will be shattered (again).

There is no doubt in my mind something they are planning required extremely low latency ram.
I am extremely skeptical that MS used ESRAM on a very expensive custom SoC as simply a bandaid for not wanting to buy faster ram.

Sony fooled a bunch of people at E3 with a slide that said DirectX 11.2 Feature Set. But really they only have access to PSL (their version of OpenGL), equivalence is a debatable topic.

I think you can bet your ass there will be Xbox One demos of DX12. They've been taking shit for resolutiongate and it seems like they are coming out swinging.

When the gaming community was wowed by Sony showing 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM we all assumed they were just upping the anty and bringing a more superior system to market. Now it's starting to look like compensation for what they knew MS was going to bring to the table. If this turns out to be bunk fine but you have to admit that something is definitely going on inside the X1. This may be the biggest 180 of them all.

Yes, possible performance increases aside... This PROVES that the X1 GPU is not the same 7000 series as the PS4. We knew AMD had a large custom deal with AMD and we know the PS4 is extremely similar to production parts (and advantage for them at launch for sure). But... The inclusion of DirectX 12 means that MS is still holding some cards close to their chest, that we don't know 100% of the story, and that while MS obviously launched early - there is a long term plan in place.

The DirectX team is brilliant. I wonder if we'll see tiled resources and further ESRAM utilization benefits?

(posting this just for your entertainment guys, don't be mad at me!)

 

[Iced_Eagle]

I heard some rumors that the Xbox One had problems with DirectX 11 and uses its own API.

No, it still uses DirectX 11. In August they announced that they created a new slimmed down graphics driver called Mono DirectX.

Details: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=642427

In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if DX12 is based off a lot of this same work.

 

[scitek]

Could DX12 possibly run DX11 games better? Or would they have to be built from the ground up for DX12 be able to take advantage of any new optimizations?

 

[justsomeguy]

So are they going to keep their underpowered console in the graphics race by manipulating the software side of things? Gross, if so.

What are you talking about? Genuine question.

 

[Guymelef]

People on reddit are already creaming themselves because of dat secret sauce. So many dreams will be shattered (again).


(posting this just for your entertainment guys, don't be mad at me!)

That's what i was saying...
Prepare for MS PR + fanboys = PS4 GPU obsolete.

 

[Chobel]

People on reddit are already creaming themselves because of dat secret sauce. So many dreams will be shattered (again).

(posting this just for your entertainment guys, don't be mad at me!)

I'm reading the comments there, and this is the best one

When Microsoft comes out with their Cloud ray tracing technology that they're working on. Xbox One will have the most graphically impressive games by far.

 

[oflaherty01]

I'm apparently sounding mentally unstable at this point, but what if there are exclusive features? Regardless, I don't think it'll catch on like they'd like simply due the widespread adoption of DX11.

I'm confused as to what you are even arguing for anymore. True DX11 wasn't the most widely used tech other than implementation in a few triple A titles, and wasn't important because older consoles did not support the tech, and even lower end newer hardware might not make full use out of the feature. It is, however, different if they are programing specifically for a machine that can implement it. It is becoming the base, while DX12 will become the new high end with both better optimization and new features arising out of that. Who knows what DX12 will bring, but if it offers the optimizations and the low level access that developers want, then it will become a dominating factor. That said, who knows to what extent the Xbox One will be able to take advantage of the tech, however it seemed like the Xbox One was never suppose to release until March anyways, so ya. Everyone wanting Microsoft to succeed keeps pointing to the Imaginary rabbit they apparently hide up their ass, maybe they do, maybe they don't, it is anyone's guess.

Spoiler

Schrödinger's Rabbit

Also, your profile pic doesn't help the mental image that comes to mind when you say that you are sounding mentally unstable... just a thought.

 

[Sarobi]

Secret sauce.. it's coming.

 

[Dictator93]

For a console? not really, would this be the first time a console has had an update to improve something like this?

most likely, the xb1 DX is basically DX12. Since we know DX12 is about driver over head and multithreading.

 

[jaypah]

That's what i was saying...
Prepare for MS PR + fanboys = PS4 GPU obsolete.

Stick to GAF? Sure, you may find a fanatic here and there but that's life.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

People on reddit are already creaming themselves because of dat secret sauce. So many dreams will be shattered (again).




(posting this just for your entertainment guys, don't be mad at me!)

And reddit has the nerve to talk shit about gaf?

 

[UnluckyKate]

Penello was teasing this when he said they invented DX ! These are the final drivers ! Xbox One redeemed ? It all makes sens now haha

 

[AstuteClass]

Oh my god, guys!

Xbox 1 + DirectX12 = 13

PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10

13 - 10 = 3

Half Life 3 confirmed!

 

[Colbert]

I would see it more as a "We have an easier time maintaining our framerate at the target resolution we were at anyway."

900p -> 1080p is 50% more pixels which means you would need 50% more hardware power for the per pixel calculations.

That resolution gap actually comes in large part due to this since if you look at the raw hardware, that's what you're seeing.

Imagine a smoother experience (less drops) at the same resolution than a different resolution in most use cases.

Mathematics isn't one of your strengths, isn't it?

if 1080p eq. 100% then 900p --> (1600x900)/(1920x1080)=0.69444... = 69.4% means thats only 30.6% less pixels/difference.

No need for exaggerations ...

 

[stryke]

Mathematics isn't one of your strengths, isn't it?

if 1080p eq. 100% then 900p --> (1600x900)/(1920x1080)=0.69444... = 69.4% means thats only 30.6% less pixels/difference.

No need for exaggerations ...

 

[LukasTaves]

Mathematics isn't one of your strengths, isn't it?

if 1080p eq. 100% then 900p --> (1600x900)/(1920x1080)=0.69444... = 69.4% thats only 30.6% difference.

No need for exaggerations ...

Now, do the other way around XD

(Start with 900p being 100%)

 

[AstuteClass]

lol... just LOL at this comment on Xbox Reddit

I was expecting MS to hold cards close to there chest like they did with the 360. Sony is hardware, and hardware is kind of static. MS is software, and software could be updated.

 

[Kinyou]

That's interesting. Has the Xbox One even made use of the DirectX 11.2 tiled resources yet?

 

[Chobel]

Mathematics isn't one of your strengths, isn't it?

if 1080p eq. 100% then 900p --> (1600x900)/(1920x1080)=0.69444... = 69.4% means thats only 30.6% less pixels/difference.

No need for exaggerations ...

Please be joking.

 

[Chettlar]

Either DX12 is compatible with DX11.1 or DX11.2 hardware, or the Xbone's graphics hardware was designed with DX12 in mind.

The former seems more likely. DX12 will likely be an optimization of previously added features (perhaps accessible combinations of unexplored stuff in 11.2) as opposed to "NEW FEATURES OMG." Maybe Microsoft was feeling a lack of adoption for DX11.1 and DX11.2 so they're rebranding the whole package.

Another idea: DirectX is also more than just Direct3D, so there could be less of a 3D-features focus.

I think the latter is likely. *shrug* You gotta remember the whisperings shouting from the roof tops about MS originally planning to launch in 2014 anyway.

 

[AstuteClass]

You guys gotta read up some of this reddit comedy gold

The way I think of it, is that Sony is brute force horsepower with the PS4, while Microsoft is brains over bronze. I firmly believe, graphics- wise, in the long run the X1 & PS4 will be at least equal, and X1 may even overtake PS4 in time. Microsoft is arguably a far better hardware, and definitely software developer than Sony.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

So much talk of misterxmedia and reddit. What's the point? Isn't that why we post here?

 

[Colbert]

Now, do the other way around XD

(Start with 900p being 100%)

Other way around:

if 900p eq. 100% then 1080p --> (1920x1080)/(1600x900)=1.44 = 144% --> 44% more pixels, still not 50%, not even rounded

So there is only the discussion left what we take as the base. To be honest I don't care.

If we make comparisons at least the numbers should be accurate. My opinion.

 

[Bsigg12]

So much talk of misterxmedia and reddit. What's the point? Isn't that why we post here?

Yea, it's pretty dumb. Were like 2 weeks out from the GDC talk so no reason to start pulling that nonsense in here.

 

[Mr Swine]

So if DX12 adds similar tech like Mantle then we need to buy DX12 cards to get to use that right?

 

[Shosai]

What are you talking about? Genuine question.

Improving a consoles graphics API in the middle of a console war is cheating! CHEATING!

lol... just LOL at this comment on Xbox Reddit

Aside from maybe the grammer, the post is accurate. Sony is a hardware company, Microsoft is a software company first and foremost. The strengths and weaknesses of the past two consoles have made this fact very apparent.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Could DX12 possibly run DX11 games better? Or would they have to be built from the ground up for DX12 be able to take advantage of any new optimizations?

That's not how it works. DX is a library. A game will have to be built to take advantage of the library. Any existing games won't see any benefit. Only games that are built for DX12. However, based on the short descriptions where the one of the objectives for DirectX 12 is to eliminate overhead and allow devs to code closer to the metal, the DX12 version of a game will likely perform better than the DX11 version.

Another extremely common misconception I'll call out, DX12 games won't be "prettier" by virtue of using DX12. What DirectX allows is the ability for developers to create better looking games by adding features and increasing performance. It's not like if you port your game from DX11 to DX12 that it will instantly look better. An initial port of a DX11 game to DX12 is expected to look basically identical, and then you can work to add the new features allowed by the API. However, it may perform better right off the bat though (which gives you even more headroom for adding fancier VFX).

So if DX12 adds similar tech like Mantle then we need to buy DX12 cards to get to use that right?

You typically have to buy a new GFX card that fully supports the new DX version anyways, so yes.

However, typically the latest generation of cards before the new generation of cards typically support a subset of DX12 features. However, I think it's not likely that current cards will be able to be supported by this new system DX setup to allow devs to code "closer to the metal". That sounds like there will be driver changes involved so cards can report more information about their hardware to the driver, DX12 and the game itself so it can take advantage of that.

there are crazy people on both sides

Exactly... Just let the crazy ones be crazy and laugh at how the others are crazy. I tend to ignore them and move on.

 

[bidguy]

And reddit has the nerve to talk shit about gaf?

there are crazy people on both sides

 

[mr2t]

It just blows my mind how desperate these people are now.

They really believe Microsoft is going to be able to implement real time ray tracing for millions of people with the cloud.

 

[Shin-Ra]

12 is nice and round but not as balanced as 11.

Microsoft is brains over bronze.

Dead.

 

[Chettlar]

However, typically the latest generation of cards before the new generation of cards typically support a subset of DX12 features. However, I think it's not likely that current cards will be able to be supported by this new system DX setup to allow devs to code "closer to the metal". That sounds like there will be driver changes involved so cards can report more information about their hardware to the driver, DX12 and the game itself so it can take advantage of that.

Sooooo, it's a good thing I've been waiting to get a new card?

Also, is it likely that the cards from AMD and nVidia coming this year (they are, aren't they?) will support DX12?

 

[...Scatter...]

I'll be interested to see what innovations come from DX12. Best case scenario would be to make current top end effects "cheaper" to use.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Penello redeemed?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Man, i haven't visit that site in a while (i feel guilty i gave him clicks before); what's new up there?

Something about one layer of the soc having a dx11.2 gpu and x86 cpu, another layer with an arm cpu and dx12 gpu, third layer with a dgpu and the move engines and 128mb of esram.

 

[Deadpool_X]

Brains. Over. Bronze.

*mic drop, walks out*

 

[Doffen]

Hopefully they will show some new games with this announcement.

 

[Chobel]

Something about one layer of the soc having a dx11.2 gpu and x86 cpu, another layer with an arm cpu and dx12 gpu, third layer with a dgpu and the move engines and 128mb of esram.

Now there's a third layer?