Shangounchained
Banned
They haven't sold even half the originals and I don't care about sales I care about gaming and quality for what I get if u want good sales then u should worship n praise micro transactions!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Microsoft: Scarlett games will work across the whole Xbox family
- Thread starter bitbydeath
- Start date
- News
Ar¢tos
Member
Zen2 allows a high number of NPCs with complex AI that simply isn't possible on Jaguar. It's something that can't just be scaled down, requires redesigning and gameplay retuning. Is MS going to spend game in doing this for every first party game the whole next gen? Or are they simply going to avoid simulations that would be impossible to scale down to simplify the process? (sacrificing some of the next-gen impact of the titles)
01011001
Banned
they could make an internet connection necessary and run physics and AI through a server.
but that's a very convoluted way to make potential single player games run on old hardware
I still think what they mean is a native integration of xCloud into the Xbox One Dashbord so you can easily start a Scarlett game right from your games library but it then throws you into a stream of the game
Last edited:
Ar¢tos
Member
That makes more sense.
Pimpbaa
Member
Hope this just means MS developed titles because even the X with it's Jaguar cpu cores is one hell of a lowest common denominator (especially compared to Ryzen cores) plus the SSD in Scarlett. They'll dump this idea when Sony's PS5 exclusives show a significant advantage (those that maximize ryzen and the ssd). Probably after the first year.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I shed a tear listening and watching this beautiful Youtube video explanation. I wish more people would understand the "why" behind Star Citizen and how it's being developed with PCs "ONLY" in mind. It's doing things no other game on Planet Earth is doing.
Blood Borne
Member
Genuine question for people who don’t see any issue with this.
Do you agree that at some point “minimum specs” would have to increase?
if no, please explain why.
If yes, please explain why.
Do you agree that at some point “minimum specs” would have to increase?
if no, please explain why.
If yes, please explain why.
look at the video.
And they also takes so long because they have to optimize everything. Especially with consoles you need to optimize until the last drop. Getting a game into alpha is not a huge breaker. Getting to optimize a game however takes a ton of time. If they do not have to worry much about streaming etc. it will also be much easier to develop for.
SubZero_Wins
Member
Guess that Scarlett games will just run 720P or less on OG Xbox
Rolling_Start
Banned
I was talking about RDR2 - you attributed frame rate problems (presumably on PCs with SSDs) to HDDs.
RDR2's frame rate troubles on PC aren't caused by the game being able to stream from a mechanical HDD. If they were, the X1X would have problems maintaining regular frame times, and these would be eliminated on PCs with PCI-E SSDs and very fast CPUs (faster at transfers and faster at decompressing). It's the other way round though - high end systems are running into frame time variability issues. The problem for RDR2 lies elsewhere.
Star Citizen is designed around SSD transfer speeds, and has a crazy high minimum LOD. The frame rate improves on SSD because the game stalls less. But if a game runs well on a slow mechanical HDD (fast travel aside), then a PCI-E SSD machine with a stupidly fast CPU shouldn't be running into problems streaming data.
I think all of us have said support for one would have to be dropped to a cloud device at some point. For me fall 2021 be good time for scarlet only games. Third parties might be 2022 before they move on. Also people forget about PC for third parties like they are going to enforce PCI-e SSD as minimum requirement for games. So it will be a long time before any game outside a sony only exclusive is made around the SSD.
DemiFiend_
Banned
Okay boomer
DemiFiend_
Banned
LOL, homeboy can't afford consoles. Get a job you neet
NickFire
Member
I honestly believe that they view Scarlet as necessary to going multi-platform eventually (beyond just PC and Xbox). If they rested on their laurels since X can already do 4k, then they would be watching from the outside for the next few years while funding all the new studios they bought to make 1st party games for game pass. Scarlet keeps them relevant while they make gamepass more attractive to people who weren't swayed enough to buy an S or an X. If it sells like hot cakes then they can switch strategies back to hardware sales being a big deal again that they are willing to report on. But if not, it keeps them in the fold as a major player, keeps revenue coming in while these studios are working on big games, and maintains a bit of leverage for future negotiations (by denying Nintendo and Sony the ability to say you need us more than we need you since you have no where else to sell your games for console audiences).
Back to the main topic - I agree 100% that their approach will hold development back. I'm just of the opinion that financial benefits make it inevitable in the beginning of the cycle in today's age. I do hope that Sony takes your view for their first party games though, because ultimately I want to play games that blow my mind in a year from now.
Shangounchained
Banned
I didn't say I can't afford a console infact I don't care if scarllet is 1000$ just make one don't confuse us with pro versions it's not a console tradition
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
This right here is the real story. Not some bullshit about the One holding back Scarlett. Consoles have become more and more PC like over the last couple of generations. First they stopped being plug and play, with updates, installs and HDDs that would inevitably need replacing / upgrading. Then they moved over to the same x86 architecture as PC. Then they were talking about 100% backwards compatibility (afforded to them by said move to x86). Now they want new titles to be scalable so they can run on a wide range of their (semi)proprietary hardware.
Last edited:
nikolino840
Member
Could be not,some PC games,like witcher 3,have options to make the world more heavy like more or less NPC,or Better hair,lights whatever like the Nvidia options...or make a depth of field to render more in the distance..add more or less grass or particles
Make different 3d models like Rise of the tomb Raider xbox360VSxboxone
If they do on PC they can do for Xbox,Is the same work
Shangounchained
Banned
I hate this strategy Microsoft should have stuck to pc and scrap the Xbox business cause it doesn't make sense, I hate console pro versions
Golgo 13
The Man With The Golden Dong
“Work” being the key word here. Needless, idiotic amounts of needless work. Any idea how hard it is to OPTIMIZE (which is required for console release because of specific sets of specs for different hardware) 5 different versions of a video game? 4 of which have different GPU’s, 3 of which have different CPU clocks, 3 of which have entirely different CPU’s and GPU’s all together?
You might not realize this, but a table of 3 nerds in Microsoft shirts don’t sit at a table, flip a switch, and make this all magically work — this is THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF WORK from multiple teams, millions of dollars, lots and lots of hassle. Game development is stressful, risky, and difficult as is. The simpler it can stay, the better for everyone involved, generally. And this just makes Things x100 more complex.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
One thing that some of the cheering people are claiming, is that MS is trying to turn Xbox into a PC. But you can tell they have no idea what PC gaming is, because right now Xbox is getting all the down sides of PC gaming (unspecific hardware setup), all the down side of Console gaming (closed garden with no true modding). AND lose the high quality 1st party games coded to the best hardware.
For a few days now, people who don't play on PC had been pretending they know PC gaming, and try to argue that MS is doing the smart thing to mess up the core of a game console. And I am a sucker for trying to argue with them up to now.
Shangounchained
Banned
Problem of today's strategies, they keep using the word diversity on everything and the gaming industry is infected aswell, everytime o look at ms interviews they keep saying
"broader audience diversity diversity diversity, our system will be broader to a wider diversity and we bring u Xbox one X for inclusive diversity with 4k resolution to attract a wider diversity" they are so lost ever since they came with the TV TV TV pitch when realising Xbox one and now they lost the plot they want there hands everywhere they just can't focus on real gamers, just fucking make one next gen Xbox and call it a day we didn't ask for diversity diversity fuck!
"broader audience diversity diversity diversity, our system will be broader to a wider diversity and we bring u Xbox one X for inclusive diversity with 4k resolution to attract a wider diversity" they are so lost ever since they came with the TV TV TV pitch when realising Xbox one and now they lost the plot they want there hands everywhere they just can't focus on real gamers, just fucking make one next gen Xbox and call it a day we didn't ask for diversity diversity fuck!
Shmunter
Member
Because it has pc cpu and GPU bits? An android phone is more of a personal computer than a closed fixed hardware console.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Companies only use buzzwords like that when they have nothing good to say. Sony and Nintendo are just saying "we have good games and people are buying our hardware. We plan to do the same thing in the future". There was no need to embellish anything.
Since Sony is keeping quiet, Microsoft is trying to take advantage of the uncontested airtime. It isn't like they are failing at that; Stadia basically gifted Xbox an opponent they could beat up with ease. The X-cloud reveal is one of those few recent times when MS had something to cheer about. They had something to offer that was clearly superior to a young upstart competitor. Google might as well be the early Santa that gifted MS free good pr.
Shangounchained
Banned
Microsoft have failed real gamers I think they gave up and let Sony and Nintendo take the helm I think Microsoft is now focusing on diversity and casual gamers hence the non availability of proper first party games like PlayStation's library, Microsoft's 1st party is kiddish girly soft and rubbish loon at gears it's softened up forza n so forth it's Xbox has become a rainbow machine it's a pretend pc! It's even better to own a pc now than getting a Xbox because I'll play the same games anyway and even with better quality, they've lost the plot this time around I swear if I hear them say diversity one more fucking time I won't buy their new console!
The talk back in the days was processing power ram and games not scoobydooby doo stuff!
CeeJay
Member
Cross-play, cross-progression, play anywhere, gamepass across console and PC are all made possible or at the very least simplified when you bring PC and console closer together. If it wasn't for this initiative, we wouldn't have MS bringing all their first party games to PC in the first place. I love been able to play something like Sea of Thieves on console on my TV and then move onto my laptop when the TV is being used by the missus. Now I even have the option to also move onto my phone using Xcloud if I want. All from a single gamepass subscription. I can now play couch co-op again with my son without us having to be playing in different rooms and using headsets to talk and we get our own screens. There are a lot of positives to all of this that you fail to see that are in place right now yet are running with the fear that Scarlett might be hampered by the XB1 which at this point is purely conjecture.
GymWolf
Member
Real life western probably.
Rolling_Start
Banned
It'd look like shit unfortunately, becuase the budget for the game would be tiny, because it wouldn't have sold in meaningful numbers.
So you wouldn't have the artists, the programmers, the technology leaders who are probably the very best in the business. Hundreds and hundreds of people working for years.
The hardware on its own does nothing. You need to have the userbase that can support the hundreds of million of dollars of development that RDR2 cost. Maybe if you could hit a Star Citizen style crowd funding bonanza, and spend those hundreds of millions over several years and still not have a game for the mass market. Maybe you could pull it off then. Except ... because you didn't have access to the target hardware for most of development, you'd still not be an ideal fit for that hardware.
Development always lags behind the latest hardware.
Mass Shift
Member
Agreed. And launching with their flagship IP, going crossgen with Halo Infinite is just good common sense. It's also important to let existing Xbox gamers know they won't be locked out of the experience and that when/if they upgrade to Scarlett there won't be any additional cost. Their saves and progress will just scoot over.
No need to purchase a remaster.
Last edited:
Shmunter
Member
Good move for what exactly? Perhaps for those that don’t want to move to Scarlett but want a new game. Such a move does nothing at all to usher in a next gen system.
if Sony comes out and announces e.g. Horizon 2, Uncharted 5 etc as PS4 & PS5 titles I’ll be the one starting this sort of thread using very colourful language Indeed.
There is no defending cross gen games in the context of a new gen system.
Rolling_Start
Banned
Well for one thing you get a larger player base than you otherwise would, and people on the new system will be indirectly selling it to people on the old.
These games, like Halo Infinite, also serve as bridge in terms of connecting "friends lists" as the generation transitions. You want to do everything you can to keep these people together.
You also get to have a longer dev period and larger budget than a standalone launch game can realistically have. More scale, scope, polish and content.
If PS5 has an exclusive launch title as expensive and development intensive as Halo Infinite I will shit my pants.
That's not to say there are no downsides by any means, but there are certainly some advantages for the new system.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
You are still thinking like a 3rd party studio.
i am not sure how many times I have to repeat this, you can ONLY sell the new system, if the people on the old system feel they are missing out by not buying. We know that as a fact because Xbox1X and Ps4Pro exist, and they both sell way worse than their cheaper counterparts. And everything you say just suggest that you don't want next gen to start, you don't want new games.
And the only reason you can convince yourself that you don't want new games, is because you haven't seen the new games yet. When Horizon 2 get showcased on PS5, you can go ahead and tell us how you prefer the game doesn't exist if you want. Sony will go ahead and sell the next gen console like they are suppose to.
Rolling_Start
Banned
I'm trying to put myself in MS's shoes. And if I do that I can see why they're doing what they're doing.
You can repeat it as many times as you like - and you'll be missing a huge part of the big picture each time.
You sell the new system if people want what it has to offer. I have no doubt that there will be games built around Scarlett in due course, but the huge library and huge increase in fidelity and fluidity will be reasons to upgrade from day one.
Next gen is about tools, assets, engines, budgets and development time every bit as much as it is about the parts in a console. On the software side next gen is a transition that takes time.
What you're missing is that MS also release their games on their Windows operating system. And they have an additional business model that they're investing in massively, which is Gamepass, and unless your key games can reach a suitable part of your anticipated subscriber base, those hundreds of millions you're spending on development are squandered.
You have no idea what I want, or why I want it. You can leave that out of your world-building.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And THIS is the part about Gamepass that I hate to death! Business-wise.....you're right, but it's a stupid plan.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Not sure what to make of this. I guess it really depends on how they approach it to make people want to upgrade their console.
Journey
Banned
Seriously!!
"“Work” being the key word here. Needless, idiotic amounts of needless work." To get these games across all of Xbox.
Someone actually said that in this very thread. Omg, how terrible that they have to work hard for gamers, nobody wants to work and nobody wants the overtime pay. What happened to the Lazy devs, or it's all about the consumer, now everyone seems to be worried about the poor developers or MS pockets in paying extra to make this happen, more like Fake concerns to fit their narrative. We should be praising MS for getting their games across all platforms instead of forcing you to get on their new system like others have done with games that could've easily been cross gen.
I have a questions for all of you complaining, can you explain why my friend, who's an avid fan of the Gundam series, was forced to purchase a PS3 at launch to play Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire?
Last edited:
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Seriously!!
"“Work” being the key word here. Needless, idiotic amounts of needless work." To get these games across all of Xbox.
Someone actually said that in this very thread. Omg, how terrible that they have to work hard for gamers, nobody wants to work and nobody wants the overtime pay. What happened to the Lazy devs, or it's all about the consumer, now everyone seems to be worried about the poor developers or MS pockets in paying extra to make this happen, more like Fake concerns to fit their narrative. We should be praising MS for getting their games across all platforms instead of forcing you to get on their new system like others have done with games that could've easily been cross gen.
I have a questions for all of you complaining, can you explain why my friend, who's an avid fan of the Gundam series, was forced to purchase a PS3 at launch to play Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire?
Your friend wasn't forced to buy anything. They made a choice.
Journey
Banned
Yea, the only choice available was the PS3 when he could've easily had played this on PS2 if this idea was in place back then. But the point I'm trying to make here is, you CAN bring games to the new consoles while still making them available to the older platforms without having to affect the quality of the Scarlett version, clearly in the case of Gundman, being exclusive to PS3 only did not help it look any better than your average PS2 game, in fact some assets look like PS1.
Last edited:
Mass Shift
Member
I don't know. I mean it's just talk, and I can understand a few things where concerns might be valid. But I have to agree that some of this does feel like too many negative narratives are being strung together all at once.
Even things that clearly demonstrate goodwill are being treated with unnecessary suspicion.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You can't do everything you just said. It's literally not possible, unless you design the game to not take full advantage of the Scarlett console.
Well I hear a large contingent bitch about 1440x60fps. This solves that issue. If the hook for scarlet is 4k 60fps while xbox one gets 30fps and at less detail and effects ect. So there is an upside depending on how you look at it.
Journey
Banned
We'll just have to wait and see. People also said it was impossible to bring PowerPC architecture games to Xbox One, and voila, the geniuses brought BC to Xbox One. Games generally come to PC now a days, save for exclusives, those said games trickle down to lower platforms, so I fail to see how these games like Cyberpunk making it to Scarlett looking it's best on consoles, can't trickle down to the other platforms below at lower resolution/texture detail/framerate.
cireza
Member
Ask Nintendo maybe ? There first party have almost never been the most impressive games on their consoles.
Shmunter
Member
Nintendo games are the highest rated games not just on their own platform, but in the industry. Games as a product are a sum of their parts, not just one particular aspect.
01011001
Banned
from what universe are you?
because in this one right here your statement is demonstrably false... also THEIR*
It starts with Mario Bros 3, a game that took the NES hardware and used it to the fullest, almost no NES game comes close to its scope, detail and polish.
F-Zero, a launch title that brought a 3D-esque racing game running at 60fps to a console that noone was expecting 3D like experiences on.
then later, Yoshi's Island, cuting edge 2D graphics with textured 3D elements, morphing sprites, at 60fps.
Ocarina of Time and especially Majora's Mask, 3D action adventures with big worlds, ans in the case of Majora, high detail environments.
then there's Wave Race, with its 3D water mesh that dynamically creates waves of different kinds depending on the track...
on to the GameCube, and you start strong with Luigi's Mansion, with its extremely detailed world that dynamically reacts to your weapon... it had real time shadows and reflections that looked unbelievably good for its time.
and you had Wave Racer Blue Storm, which yet again had the best water simulation of any game at the time of release...
On the Wii you had Mario Galaxy which looks so outstandingly good that the 480p resolution holds back the true potential of what Nintendo stuffed in this game in terms of art, effects work and clever tricks to simulate more demanding rendering techniques and all that at 60fps with basically no dips.
Wii U, and we have Wind Waker HD, 1080p, real time shadows with drawdistances greater than even in many modern games and overall stunning lighting.
Mario 3D World, basically no loading times due to it being tailored to almost completely fitting into the Wii U's RAM, perfect 60fps with beautiful art and effects.
and of course Smash Bros 4 which runs at 1080p at a near perfect 60fps.
Last edited:
Celcius
°Temp. member
Backwards compatibility is a good thing but not making games exclusively for Scarlett is not.
They may as well call it the Xbox One Next or something (leave xbox one in the title).
It makes sense though... they just released the elite controller 2 towards the end of the xbox one's life... but if next-gen is just an upgrade but still runs the same games then using the same controller is no problem.
They may as well call it the Xbox One Next or something (leave xbox one in the title).
It makes sense though... they just released the elite controller 2 towards the end of the xbox one's life... but if next-gen is just an upgrade but still runs the same games then using the same controller is no problem.
Last edited: