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[Gaspode_T]

Where were those PC gamer MS employees when it was decided to put all multiplayer behind the pay wall, or netflix, youtube, etc. They let us down before. Though I have a 360 and kinect, it never touched my home network. I should have bought games for it but since I didn't want to pay to play online it was undesirable to me (got it as a xmas gift). At least I can play it offline though, I should get Dance Central, it should be mega cheap by now.

Well, some of them were probably happily playing LoTR Online or WoW Some of the most hardcore gaming nerds I have ever met are on the Windows team, but they are busy...building...operating systems...

Seriously though the company has like over 70,000 software engineers or maybe at least I can say 70,000 very technical employees safely. That is too many people to boil down to one statement in regards to anything. Every team is focused on their own life an death struggle so nothing is as simple as it seems, when it comes to work for the most part people have a lot on their plate and a lot to worry about, but when strange policy decisions get made I often do see it get escalated and called out in pretty heated way (sometimes it is after the fact, but at least internal escalation is somewhat effective). Sometimes it is the other problem where affluent Microsoft employees tend to have strange requirements that don't represent the average consumer, so we don't want internal feedback to ever dominate a team's feedback pipeline because that could be even worse. Reference: http://www.stepto.com/2008/11/the-redmond-reality-distortion-field/

My best friend in the world actually never hooked up his 360 to his home network and I couldn't imagine why, I tried for years and years to convince him to do it and I even bought him a wireless router through amazon.com and sent it to him, but then the wireless router has lots of drops and his quality of ISP is just not the same as what I was used to when I was living in Seattle. So there is a little bit of regional ISP quality issue that really does exist in the world. Now within the last 12 months he is finally doing the "Netflix on Xbox" thing but he still complains about it to me when it disconnects, so next time I visit him I am going to have to debug to see what the problem is. This sort of life experience is why I would never say something like what Adam Orth said. It is a terrible user experience to be using something and then suddenly be dropped out of it, I hope anyone designing devices would understand that.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Not at all. That crap was bad. However, if you think shouting mcdonalds at a TV screen is the same as spying on people in their own homes, then you have serious issues

Do you even realise what you're saying? How would Sony know you're shouting at the TV and gesturing along? A camera right? A PSEYE perhaps?

You're also veering into conspiracy theory territory. It's not believable by any stretch of the imagination that MS will be spying on people through Kinect. They don't have the manpower, resources, etc. It requires people to ignore the incredibly negative fallout that would result from such actions, not least court cases that would essentially see the company buckle under the financial and legal pressures it would face.

It's just a ridiculous claim to make.

EDIT. Hold on, your the guy who praised MS for being open & honest regarding always online while implying Sony was deceitful. Yeah I see this conversation will turn into a head/brickwall job

Nope, I suggested that if always online was going to be a requirement going forward for the vast majority of games and if the rumours were true, MS were being more upfront about their motivations whereas Sony were being more vague.

It's a valid position to hold based on Sony's past actions, but if you feel you can't continue this discussion, I won't take up any more of your time.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Do you even realise what you're saying? How would Sony know you're shouting at the TV and gesturing along? A camera right? A PSEYE perhaps?

You're also veering into conspiracy theory territory. It's not believable by any stretch of the imagination that MS will be spying on people through Kinect. They don't have the manpower, resources, etc. It requires people to ignore the incredibly negative fallout that would result from such actions, not least court cases that would essentially see the company buckle under the financial and legal pressures it would face.

It's just a ridiculous claim to make.



Nope, I suggested that if always online was going to be a requirement going forward for the vast majority of games and if the rumours were true, MS were being more upfront about their motivations whereas Sony were being more vague.

It's a valid position to hold based on Sony's past actions, but if you feel you can't continue this discussion, I won't take up any more of your time.

It's definitely tin-foil hat territory.

 

[FStop7]

Could it be that always online means this?

https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/320508592929271808

Yes, it could.

It could also mean no Internet = no game.

Nothing is official yet.

 

[Hasney]

Wondering if Gies is Arthur's real surname or if he just adopted it after everyone says "Arthur... Jeeze" after everything he says.

 

[Live Free or Die]

Just read all the updates. Holy crap! What the... That .gif lol Wow.

 

[Ding-Ding]

Do you even realise what you're saying? How would Sony know you're shouting at the TV and gesturing along? A camera right? A PSEYE perhaps?

You're also veering into conspiracy theory territory. It's not believable by any stretch of the imagination that MS will be spying on people through Kinect. They don't have the manpower, resources, etc. It requires people to ignore the incredibly negative fallout that would result from such actions, not least court cases that would essentially see the company buckle under the financial and legal pressures it would face.

It's just a ridiculous claim to make.

So does games like Skyrim actually be classed as spyware when you shout a command that the game follows. Thats not exactly miles removed from shouting a command at an advertisement.

Yet you put that in the same bracket as a camera that watches the room at an OS level and can terminate a session if someone not licensed walks into a room.

I just have no words.

 

[Revven]

Wow, caught up from last night, almost 20 pages!

Jeeesusss. Nothing stops this train.

 

[Valkyria]

I hope this guy doesn't lose his jobs. We all make mistakes, an apologize should be more than enough.

 

[Boss Man]

I understand people bringing the spying thing up in passing, because yeah it's good to be aware of things like that potentially happening. Kind of like when you see a shooting star and think about how an asteroid could hit the Earth.

But to actually believe that MS will be running some kind of illuminati lizard spy system with the Kinect is pretty bonkers.

 

[Makonero]

Interesting

Spoiler

satire

article: here.

“We believe the next Xbox will set the gold standard for pro-consumerism despite what naysayers may think,” argues Mattrick, “We have never locked anyone out of expected console features except for Xbox Silver members. Of course, there will be critics regardless of the choices we make, but that’s part of life. However, all of this is speculation right now so all those critics are wasting their time, wasting our time to address these non-complaints, and wasting your time for having to worry over nothing.”

 

[Haunted]

I hope this guy doesn't lose his jobs. We all make mistakes, an apologize should be more than enough.

Not sure if his bosses would accept an apology so easily. Going off-message and unintentionally divulging a major feature about Durango (and possibly interfering with their planned marketing) on his public Twitter account will definitely have some repercussions.

 

[awm8604]

What a nightmare. Microsoft can't be this stupid.

 

[itsgreen]

Wondering if Gies is Arthur's real surname or if he just adopted it after everyone says "Arthur... Jeeze" after everything he says.

It is, its Dutch afaik or German, he probably can't pronounce it though, yes. Yes I am saying he can't say his own name correctly.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So does games like Skyrim actually be classed as spyware when you shout a command that the game follows. Thats not exactly miles removed from shouting a command at an advertisement.

Yet you put that in the same bracket as a camera that watches the room at an OS level and can terminate a session if someone not licensed walks into a room.

I just have no words.

You're choosing to focus on one aspect that suits your argument, what about the aspect of the patent that demands people get up and gesture along with the ad? Isn't that then also watching the room at a software level to ensure the user carries out these movements?

You're positing one overly negative scenario for one and attempting to paint a more positive and less intrusive scenario for the other when both essentially do the same thing at their core, if we follow the line of thought that they are spying on us. Which I maintain is ridiculous.

 

[Valkyria]

Not sure if his bosses would accept an apology so easily. Going off-message and unintentionally divulging a major feature about Durango (and possibly interfering with their planned marketing) on his public Twitter account will definitely have some repercussions.

Yeah I know, but losing your job for such a thing...I would feel really bad.

 

[Ding-Ding]

You're choosing to focus on one aspect that suits your argument, what about the aspect of the patent that demands people get up and gesture along with the ad? Isn't that then also watching the room at a software level to ensure the user carries out these movements?

You're positing one overly negative scenario for one and attempting to paint a more positive and less intrusive scenario for the other when both essentially do the same thing at their core, if we follow the line of thought that they are spying on us. Which I maintain is ridiculous.

Here is the difference, Sony have already said that the camera is not needed for the console to function.

All the latest rumours suggest that durango does require kinect to function.

So if both are correct, one is an option, the other isn't

 

[RedNumberFive]

You're choosing to focus on one aspect that suits your argument, what about the aspect of the patent that demands people get up and gesture along with the ad? Isn't that then also watching the room at a software level to ensure the user carries out these movements?

You're positing one overly negative scenario for one and attempting to paint a more positive and less intrusive scenario for the other when both essentially do the same thing at their core, if we follow the line of thought that they are spying on us. Which I maintain is ridiculous.

Yup, get ready for Nu-ads! Another consumer-centric innovation from Microsoft!

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2013/Jan13/01-07NUadsPR.aspx

 

[wildfire]

The patent to see how many people are in the room with Kinect if/when watching a movie and charge for those extra individuals.

That's an interesting scenario and while it is certainly one that can happen, you're implying that MS will be spying using Kinect and that's how any hackers will breach your privacy. It's simply too far fetched. They don't have the resources to pull off such a feat.

I was definitely accusing of MS spying with my first comment but I was willing to meet you all the way and assume MS won't spy on us.

It's already been established in tech news that web cams have been compromised and people have been figuring this out because hackers haven't been able to get around that problem that the activation light for most of them can't be turned off while they are spying.

But all of these intrusions have to be done at an individual level. Anyone who successfully cracks MS networks and is less forthcoming than Superdave is going to be able to manipulate far more cameras at once than is currently possible if MS's next xbox gains traction.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...e-men-who-spy-on-women-through-their-webcams/

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Not sure if his bosses would accept an apology so easily. Going off-message and unintentionally divulging a major feature about Durango (and possibly interfering with their planned marketing) on his public Twitter account will definitely have some repercussions.

He doesn't actually divulge but it's rather what his tweets imply (perfectly timed with the Kotaku story that games will need to be online to start) along with the comment #dealwithit as well as his position is why this story has blown up.

His sacking shouldn't be a surprise if it does happen, he's caused a significant amount of negative press for MS with his comments. Severe action needs to taken, if only to serve as an example to others that this is what happens when you run your mouth on twitter.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Yeah I know, but losing your job for such a thing...I would feel really bad.

Why? Sweet Billy here is an adult, and should know better. Microsoft shouldn't need to indulge his childish antics.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Here is the difference, Sony have already said that the camera is not needed for the console to function.

All the latest rumours suggest that durango does require kinect to function.

So if both are correct, one is an option, the other isn't

That's beside the point. Having Kinect as mandatory doesn't automatically mean every patent they've taken out in the past will be implemented, just as the patents Sony have taken out won't necessarily be implemented.

Nor does it mean they will be spying on people, it's simply too ridiculous to take seriously.

 

[Valkyria]

Maybe losing a job it's not such a big deal in America, but in my country is a really big deal, it's a motive for shame.

 

[soundahfekz]

Maybe losing a job it's not such a big deal in America, but in my country is a really big deal, it's a motive for shame.

are you saying he shot himself in the foot?

 

[Reiko]

Maybe losing a job it's not such a big deal in America, but in my country is a really big deal, it's a motive for shame.

Today Adam learned from Microsoft that Internet is Serious Business™

BTW... You forgot to say that you are an expert.

 

[bigol]

Interesting

Spoiler

satire

article: here.

There will be a lot of surprises for gamers on launch day.
hmmm

 

[shinobi602]

Maybe losing a job it's not such a big deal in America, but in my country is a really big deal, it's a motive for shame.

Well, I'm an expert in American culture and I can tell you it is downright not shameful here, you know?

 

[bigol]

Interesting

Spoiler

satire

article: here.

it seems a fake article to me

 

[Fistwell]

Well, I'm an expert in American culture and I can tell you it is downright not shameful here, you know?

Well, of course you would say that, you single-handedly fucked his career over. How do you even live with yourself?

Spoiler

lol

 

[Ding-Ding]

That's beside the point. Having Kinect as mandatory doesn't automatically mean every patent they've taken out in the past will be implemented, just as the patents Sony have taken out won't necessarily be implemented.

Nor does it mean they will be spying on people, it's simply too ridiculous to take seriously.

You really cannot see the dangers of an always online console with a always connected camera can you (always online is bad enough itself)

Will MS use it to spy, probably not. However can MS guarantee that not one single employee will abuse the system?. Can MS guarantee that no hacker can penetrate their system or use flaws in others as what happened with EA and FIFA?.

The decision for always online and an always connected camera should not be microsofts choice, it should be mine. Take this road and I only have one option available to me and thats telling MS where to shove it!

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Yup, get ready for Nu-ads! Another consumer-centric innovation from Microsoft!

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2013/Jan13/01-07NUadsPR.aspx

Not comparable to the patent Sony took out.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/24/sony-patent-wants-to-make-advertising-more-interactive/

And while we're on the subject of a company's mindset when taking out patents, what were Sony thinking when they took out a patent for game interrupting ads?

http://www.destructoid.com/sony-patents-plan-to-interrupt-games-with-commercials-228023.phtml

What should worry everyone is that Sony have form in this regard. Forced ads into the load screen for Wipeout HD which just so happened to lengthen the load time so you were forced to watch the entire ad.

This is conveniently forgotten when people talk about how terrible MS are with their ads. At least they've been upfront about ads since very early in the 360's lifespan. Sony, well Sony took a more underhanded approach, which ultimately failed, but what should worry people is that they even attempted it in the first place and that they've since taken out a patent that interrupts your gameplay to show you an ad.

You really cannot see the dangers of an always online console with a always connected camera can you (always online is bad enough itself)

Will MS use it to spy, probably not. However can MS guarantee that not one single employee will abuse the system?. Can MS guarantee that no hacker can penetrate their system or use flaws in others as what happened with EA and FIFA?.

The decision for always online and an always connected camera should not be microsofts choice, it should be mine. Take this road and I only have one option available to me and thats telling MS where to shove it!

I can't speak for the EA/FIFA incident as I know precious little about it.

I can understand the worry, what I'm arguing is that it's simply not a realistic worry nor is it something that will ever likely happen. They won't have invested in the resources to remotedly activate Kinect and livestream everything that happens.

 

[shinobi602]

Well, of course you would say that, you single-handedly fucked his career over. How do you even live with yourself?

Spoiler

lol

 

[DigitalOp]

But to actually believe that MS will be running some kind of illuminati lizard spy system with the Kinect is pretty bonkers.

Facebook was a billion dollar company at first.

Yet they still got caught

This isnt some shocking revealing idea people are pulling out of their ass. Data Mining & Privacy is double edged sword working simultaneously in your favor and against.

Yes, there is no proof. But thats when common sense falls in line. If Microsoft sells millions of durango while opening a direct line of sight into your living room, You think the US government wouldn't be the LEAST bit intrigued in that kind of technology?? You think Facebook would go out their way to protect the data of milions if the government (Or anyone at that) approached them with a blank check?? Its millions of people around the world quite literally "checking in" and revealing intimate details about whats going on. Thats quite a tempting and alluring concept. And we all know that Knowledge is Power

The argument is about principle. People like me are trying to nip this in the bud BEFORE it becomes a reality, even worse.. An everyday norm.


Let me tell some people some things... You just might not believe it...

A) Politicians fail us everyday in America. Sometimes before they even win office. Their campaigns are funded by Super PAC groups, wealthy donators from "anonymous sources" and behind the scenes lobbyist. When they win office, they cater to the people who spent the money to get them there, NOT the general public as you may go on believing. SHOCKING, I know.... Its called Capitalism

B) The US government is the reason why we even have the internet in the first place. Thank the Pentagon!

C) Companies sell your data ALL THE TIME. They don't have to tell you. The media doesn't have to know about it. They don't have to notify anyone before they pull data. They don't have to do anything really. 10 times out of 10, You already gave away that consent when you clicked that little 'Accept' button on the Terms and Agreement page that NOBODY read. (Not even me lol)

D) The Patriot Act. Quite literally, Its constitutionally legal for the government to spy on us. All that talk back in 01-Now about the general public's phone being wiretapped, That was real. Nuff said.


Its about opening that gateway into full on grey matter. The technology exists now. You argue they wouldn't use it. I argue WHY WOULDNT they use it? They both work in tandem, as much good it does, who's to say its not being used for ill means. That's MY argument


Call me what you want. Psycho, Lunatic, Conspiracy Theorist, Blah blah. I consider myself a 'conscious' citizen. I keep my eyes open everywhere I go. Because at the end of the day, The only person who's gonna look after me and my family IS ME.

EDIT: And Im not saying MS will use their tech for this purpose, But if they get approached by anybody who can handle that blank check... What do you think they would do? Defend your data and Consumer Rights in Privacy? Lol.....

 

[ironcreed]

 

[DopeyFish]

Interesting

Spoiler

satire

article: here.

He's talking too much and saying too much which makes me think fake

 

[Mandoric]

Not comparable to the patent Sony took out.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/24/sony-patent-wants-to-make-advertising-more-interactive/

And while we're on the subject of a company's mindset when taking out patents, what were Sony thinking when they took out a patent for game interrupting ads?

http://www.destructoid.com/sony-patents-plan-to-interrupt-games-with-commercials-228023.phtml

What should worry everyone is that Sony have form in this regard. Forced ads into the load screen for Wipeout HD which just so happened to lengthen the load time so you were forced to watch the entire ad.

This is conveniently forgotten when people talk about how terrible MS are with their ads. At least they've been upfront about ads since very early in the 360's lifespan. Sony, well Sony took a more underhanded approach, which ultimately failed, but what should worry people is that they even attempted it in the first place and that they've since taken out a patent that interrupts your gameplay to show you an ad.

The difference here is that MS's implementation is live and in the wild, while Sony's implementation is a patent filing from the labs that also patented playing soccer games by strapping two Moves to your feet.

 

[Valkyria]

Well, I'm an expert in American culture and I can tell you it is downright not shameful here, you know?

Haha, maybe I did not express myself clearly, It will be bad anywhere.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Bad publicity is better than no publicity?

 

[linkboy]

Maybe losing a job it's not such a big deal in America, but in my country is a really big deal, it's a motive for shame.

Don't do something stupid and you won't lose your job.

 

[shinobi602]

Bad publicity is better than no publicity?

Not in this case.

 

[spekkeh]

Relax guys, we have the largest always online CCTV network in the entire world*, and it's aimed at your living room, but we're obviously not going to use it, what kind of people do you think we are. Besides, what could possibly go wrong?

----------
* until google glasses comes along

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The difference here is that MS's implementation is live and in the wild, while Sony's implementation is a patent filing from the labs that also patented playing soccer games by strapping two Moves to your feet.

Not really. Sony made steps into in game advertising with Wipeout HD so their patent of interrupting game ads holds more weight than a patent for limiting the number of people who can watch a movie when Kinect is present or a patent that blocks used games.

 

[Doc Evils]

shinobi602
Not so sweet billy
(Today, 04:17 PM)
Quote

 

[Roto13]

I'm going to wrap my Kinect in tinfoil so the Gubmint can't use it to spy on my cat who is secretly an alien don't tell anyone

 

[GAMERG0D]

He's talking too much and saying too much which makes me think fake

Why do you think he said the article was satire?

 

[Tylahedras]

Facebook was a billion dollar company at first.

Yet they still got caught

This isnt some shocking revealing idea people are pulling out of their ass. Data Mining & Privacy is double edged sword working simultaneously in your favor and against.

Yes, there is no proof. But thats when common sense falls in line. If Microsoft sells millions of durango while opening a direct line of sight into your living room, You think the US government wouldn't be the LEAST bit intrigued in that kind of technology?? You think Facebook would go out their way to protect the data of milions if the government (Or anyone at that) approached them with a blank check?? Its millions of people around the world quite literally "checking in" and revealing intimate details about whats going on. Thats quite a tempting and alluring concept. And we all know that Knowledge is Power

The argument is about principle. People like me are trying to nip this in the bud BEFORE it becomes a reality, even worse.. An everyday norm.


Let me tell some people some things... You just might not believe it...

A) Politicians fail us everyday in America. Sometimes before they even win office. Their campaigns are funded by Super PAC groups, wealthy donators from "anonymous sources" and behind the scenes lobbyist. When they win office, they cater to the people who spent the money to get them there, NOT the general public as you may go on believing. SHOCKING, I know.... Its called Capitalism

B) The US government is the reason why we even have the internet in the first place. Thank the Pentagon!

C) Companies sell your data ALL THE TIME. They don't have to tell you. The media doesn't have to know about it. They don't have to notify anyone before they pull data. They don't have to do anything really. 10 times out of 10, You already gave away that consent when you clicked that little 'Accept' button on the Terms and Agreement page that NOBODY read. (Not even me lol)

D) The Patriot Act. Quite literally, Its constitutionally legal for the government to spy on us. All that talk back in 01-Now about the general public's phone being wiretapped, That was real. Nuff said.


Its about opening that gateway into full on grey matter. The technology exists now. You argue they wouldn't use it. I argue WHY WOULDNT they use it? They both work in tandem, as much good it does, who's to say its not being used for ill means. That's MY argument


Call me what you want. Psycho, Lunatic, Conspiracy Theorist, Blah blah. I consider myself a 'conscious' citizen. I keep my eyes open everywhere I go. Because at the end of the day, The only person who's gonna look after me and my family IS ME.

EDIT: And Im not saying MS will use their tech for this purpose, But if they get approached by anybody who can handle that blank check... What do you think they would do? Defend your data and Consumer Rights in Privacy? Lol.....

Thanks for posting, out of curiosity do they have internet in Guantanamo? Well let us know if you could use Durango there when you get back... If you get back.

Spoiler

I'm not being snarky, I agree with you

 

[Reiko]

shinobi602
Not so sweet billy
(Today, 04:17 PM)
Quote

Click shinobi602's tag after reading the OP for a laugh.

 

[bigol]

Why do you think he said the article was satire?

lol
i didn't see the spoiler

 

[Ding-Ding]

Not really. Sony made steps into in game advertising with Wipeout HD so their patent of interrupting game ads holds more weight than a patent for limiting the number of people who can watch a movie when Kinect is present or a patent that blocks used games.

So you think its wrong that Sony interrupts games with advertising (and I agree fully with you) but its absolutely fine if you get dropped from a game completely because your ISP craps out or xbox live is down as MS insisted your console must be online to function

 

[Mandoric]

Relax guys, we have the largest always online CCTV network in the entire world*, and it's aimed at your living room, but we're obviously not going to use it, what kind of people do you think we are.

----------
* until google glasses comes along

I'm going to play devil's advocate here--default-on cameras are a standard feature of laptops and phones at this point, and the only major privacy issue has been individual hackers. From a marketing perspective having video just gives you loads of data that's only parsable on an individual level, and as a marketer you're looking for trends rather than what individuals do.

It's still dumb because it is hypothetically hackable, a lot of people will probably be caught out scratching their balls on killcam, and the claimed benefits don't match up with UI research at all. But it's definitely dumb, not malevolent.