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Microsoft Studios' creative director has some choice words about always-online
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Can Crusher
Banned
Yeah this is pretty easy to see. It's gonna drive up that ad revenue that MS loves so much.
Not surprising considering MS charges for GOLD and then still forces you with ads.
The problem here is, you pay 400 + subscription out of the gate and still have to be subjected to these type of conditions that benefit you in no way, and rather are enforced on you just so MS can drive up their ad prices up and then shove it up your ass.
I don't pay for facebook, I don't pay for Neogaf, I don't pay for Google. I guess if I don't have to pay for Xbox, then great.
gaming_noob
Member
Oh. Just another pseudo insider.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I know I'm laughing now, but if MS actually forced this online stuff it could hurt everyone. If they don't, more pressure for sony to put out better stuff, MS will want to fight that new stuff, and PC will get more awesome stuff. It's better if MS just go for the core gamers first, and then the casuals later when they have time. Casuals don't buy new consoles that early. They will be too busy still buying PS2, or ps360U.
I guess you don't use Facebook then either, huh.
35 pages since I last saw this thread last night
has anything new happened or are we just keeping the thread going?
edit: nvm, they fired him..holy shit
Not that I feel for the dude, forget about the always online stupidy on these boards. Belittling small towns on a public medium and insulting people should not have happened when it is clear that he was linked to MS
has anything new happened or are we just keeping the thread going?
edit: nvm, they fired him..holy shit
Not that I feel for the dude, forget about the always online stupidy on these boards. Belittling small towns on a public medium and insulting people should not have happened when it is clear that he was linked to MS
Fallout from Adam possibly getting fired.
Ploid 3.0
Member
I remember a thread on gaf where someone found a site that linked unprotected webcams to google map of the world. Zoom in anywhere and you could click on a camera and watch it. They eventually found a guy watching porn and doing his thing. Man that was messed up.
What if hackers somehow got into all these consoles with cameras and are able to receive the feeds. Another point brought up in that camera thread was that someone's security/house cam could be used against them. Wait on them to leave the house, then rob them blind.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Someone already explained why your analogy, or rather, justification for dedicated ads does not hold water.
eh, I'd consider private IM messages far more private than a webcam (and we have webcams on all our computers, and my computer is almost always connected to the internet... but those aren't always on and sending images to various companies). I highly doubt Microsoft will be keeping video archives of everybody's living rooms Big Brother-style (though, of course, that's what they want us to think) if only because that's a ridiculous amount of bandwidth, a ridiculous amount of hard drive space, etc.
Some of you guys love just jumping to conclusions, geez. Just wait until the actual product is announced. I'm sure it will be like Kinect is now and there will be the option to turn the camera off even if it is attached to your Xbox.
test_account
XP-39C²
It is true that Dead Space 3 had easy access to microtransactions in-game, but personally i never felt that this was strongly encouraging me to buy it. The microtransaction menu was fairly anonymous in the game and it didnt stick out as an attempt to say "Click here! Buy in-game resources!". I've beaten Dead Space 3 and never felt compelled nor any need to buy that DLC/microtransaction.
What was the thing about EA selling tutorial stuff by the way?
Kill Your Masters
Member
I'm mostly concerned that we are actually at the early stages of having our personal HAL9000 in the living room...for 400 bucks. Scary stuff.
I just hope Sony learned learned their 599 lesson, MS will have to adapt or eat 3rd console curse crow. Having these too as competitors is very beneficial. If one jumps out of the console business we are going to have some serious problems.
Yes we know that other companies collect data for advertising purposes. However do any of them have a product thats always online with a camera that has to be connected in your living room?
While it may sound far fetched, the possibility is there. Imagine waking up one morning & walking into your living room, in your nicely broken in boxer shorts. Do you really want to turn on your xbox and having "its time for new underwear" ads
ThisWreckage
Banned
Think of how Hulu does ads on their site and apply that to gaming.
Better than walking in with no underwear and getting penis enlargement advertisements.
Neuromancer
Member
Not really. Sure they can get subscriber information (name, address etc) with just a subpoena but if they wanted content (messages between friends, etc) they would need a search warrant signed by a judge and for that they'd need probable cause of a crime being committed. To monitor live video or voice communications they'd need a court order also signed by a judge, like a wiretap.
It's no different than telephone companies.
You would think that's the case but considering how I saw Valve screwed up their banning system to lock people out of steam completely for their behavior on forums and multiplayer I wouldn't assume MS has done the smart thing..
After all there isn't anything smart about implementing online only from a consumer standpoint.
I believe Valve fixed that problem but it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Just like Sony shouldn't have had a purposefully made backdoor into their network.
*shrugs*
Also there hasn't been any claims that Orth has been fired.
They aren't. Well up to 3 minutes they aren't.
There's no justification for it, but there's no reason why they can't do it either. It's their service, they can do what they want with it. If they want to build a service that's only benefits come from taking away the services of non-paying users, then I don't really see a problem with thatI just won't be taking part in it. Honestly, I'm surprised by your stance on this given issue the general "morality doesn't exist" vibe I get from you on the OT (though I could be wrong on either account)the only justification here is the profits, and if its profitable then it means that clearly the service is offering that is some benefit to users that outweighs the cost + ads + any other drawbacks.
I mean, flying First Class on an airlineit's not inherently better than flying Economy, but airlines know you need to get from point A to point B so they just piss on the Economy users in order to create the illusion of luxury for first class fliers by making life shittier for everyone else. Is it anti-consumer and terrible? Absolutely. But airlines do it anyways (and I try to avoid big carriers because they're a fucking nightmare).
I have a product that's always online that's connected in my bedroom, my laptop. I have a product that's always online and connected that's with me wherever I go, and probably listening in on my phone conversations, tracking what I do online, my Facebook activity, (it has a webcam too) etc. and that's my smartphone. It is far-fetched. And even then, it's not setting any particularly new precedents.
edit: oops double post sorry
And just now I can imagine a load of guys having arguments with their xbox's.
"But Kinect, its cold"
Ploid 3.0
Member
Oh man, this thread is slaying me.
ThisWreckage
Banned
Oh no, you're right. The primary objective is to make money. To lock people in, to relentlessly target the locked in, and to come up with innumerable ways to make a profit off of the locked in. That's the gist. That still doesn't change the fact that Durango is going to be the most relentlessly cynical gaming machine that has ever existed. I'm not okay with that. That's Microsoft's right, but I won't support it.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Durango - How to Lose Friends & Alienate People [OT]
Ah ok, didn't know that
It is not so much jumping to conclusions when you consider how voice interpretation (of Kinect, but also Siri and Google's thing) works. Data is being sent to be analysed server side.
I thought the problem with the Patriot Act is that the US govt doesn't need a specific warrant against a specific person to confiscate all the data, but a vague notion against a group of people or company is enough.
Neuromancer
Member
I think I may have shinobi'd that guy. Sorry pal.
I have no problem with my Xbox or basically any device connected to the internet. My 360 is obviously always connected. What I have problems with is if my Xbox would only work if it's connected. Especially when my internet connection to MS is down, whatever the reason: my fault, the ISP's fault or MS's fault, I want to be able to play a single player game or even view a dvd or movie I have on my network.
Neuromancer
Member
Oh that's a good point, I guess if its an investigation linked to terrorism you may be right.
That's the sugar on the shit sandwich.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Getting rid of my twitter account now.
Neuromancer
Member
I have no problem with connected standby, that's actually very smart. But not if it means it has to always be online.
Miles Quaritch
Member
What? How is this any different from how the 360 operates? They are compiling data of everything you play, how long you play, etc right now. They are using that data for ads, to make game based recommendations,etc right now. It seems more than a little ridiculous to suggest it's their end game when they've already done exactly what's described.
Hell, publishers/developers have been doing it for years. Have we forgotten about the Mass Effect statistics already?
What does connected standby mean ? That it will be connected to the internet even when the console is turned off lol ?
We already posted this, but since it was misinterpreted in like a gazillion news articles because of this thread let me repeat:
In this title, Creative Director is more like "Lead Designer". Adam had a single direct report, as opposite to a true executive would have like 500 people underneath them in a big tree of organization structure. Basically, interpreting him as an executive or someone with influence is totally false.
Also, I just want to say that Microsoft has a huge # of PC gamers at the company (maybe even the biggest # of them are outside of the Xbox division), and you can bet those employees would have similar opinions to those in this thread about policies like always-online...although many MMORPGs and part of Steam are technically "online verified", PC gamers have a virtue towards freedom to modify, freedom to experiment, freedom to re-install and I can just guess that the sort of policy you folks are worried about would never happen without some sort of internal march of pitchforks breaking out...maybe we need to wait and see?? Literally people outside of Xbox team (including myself) have no idea what is going on over there so far.
From various info gathering I can tell that Adam has a bunch of game industry friends, ran a humorous GDC tumblr blog about making famous game devs wear a fedora, had controversial opinions for years before joining Microsoft, he does not seem like an evil guy, maybe he was just a little too opinionated and outspoken and he certainly made most Microsoft friends I have upset with those statements...again I have no idea what IEB team is cooking up but if you want them to never ever consider always-online Adam Orth is probably no longer the right target to focus on - switch to the public figures with lots of clout like Major Nelson or other execs on Twitter...
In this title, Creative Director is more like "Lead Designer". Adam had a single direct report, as opposite to a true executive would have like 500 people underneath them in a big tree of organization structure. Basically, interpreting him as an executive or someone with influence is totally false.
Also, I just want to say that Microsoft has a huge # of PC gamers at the company (maybe even the biggest # of them are outside of the Xbox division), and you can bet those employees would have similar opinions to those in this thread about policies like always-online...although many MMORPGs and part of Steam are technically "online verified", PC gamers have a virtue towards freedom to modify, freedom to experiment, freedom to re-install and I can just guess that the sort of policy you folks are worried about would never happen without some sort of internal march of pitchforks breaking out...maybe we need to wait and see?? Literally people outside of Xbox team (including myself) have no idea what is going on over there so far.
From various info gathering I can tell that Adam has a bunch of game industry friends, ran a humorous GDC tumblr blog about making famous game devs wear a fedora, had controversial opinions for years before joining Microsoft, he does not seem like an evil guy, maybe he was just a little too opinionated and outspoken and he certainly made most Microsoft friends I have upset with those statements...again I have no idea what IEB team is cooking up but if you want them to never ever consider always-online Adam Orth is probably no longer the right target to focus on - switch to the public figures with lots of clout like Major Nelson or other execs on Twitter...
Yeah, and that's pretty nice, that means it could download update and stuff by itself on its own time... and not yours...
Maybe ads would be disabled if you subscribe to Gold. It's only fair that way.
Probably that it stays online while in sleep mode. When I switch on my win8 convertible it's already connected to the internet, and through some magic most of the time also has e-mail notifications ready.
TheVoidDragon
Member
I hope this guy actually has lost his job. If he treats people like that he shouldn't of got the job in the first place. I expected the Creative Director of Microsoft to be better than that.
Boss Man
Member
Yeah, it's pretty annying when people imply that they're privy to some inside information when it's not the case.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Where were those PC gamer MS employees when it was decided to put all multiplayer behind the pay wall, or netflix, youtube, etc. They let us down before. Though I have a 360 and kinect, it never touched my home network. I should have bought games for it but since I didn't want to pay to play online it was undesirable to me (got it as a xmas gift). At least I can play it offline though, I should get Dance Central, it should be mega cheap by now.
ThisWreckage
Banned
They haven't incorporated Kinect into the fold yet. Ask yourself why it always needs to be connected.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
As long as you use the same gamertag the 360 had no clue who in the household was responsible for that data, that (if the rumours are true) will no longer be the case with Durango.
You should do stand up with jokes like that.
fastford58
Member
This I am ok with if there is an option to turn it off. I would also be ok with an online connection if it doesn't fuck with my game playing.
If my game shuts off after a 3 minute downtime off the internet, that is not acceptable. I haven't been able to play Diablo 3 for 3 months now because my connection is not good to Blizzard's servers. It's not even net disconnects, it's just packet loss that prevents me from playing.
NEVER AGAIN. I will quit gaming before I bend over for that stuff again. On line, ok. On line that screws with my core experience...fuck off.