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[Miles Quaritch]

They haven't incorporated Kinect into the fold yet. Ask yourself why it always needs to be connected.

User Interface? Voice control? Perhaps I'm not seeing the big picture here, are you suggesting they are going to spy on people using Kinect? You do realise how that sounds and how unrealistic such a suggestion is.

As long as you use the same gamertag the 360 had no clue who in the household was responsible for that data, that (if the rumours are true) will no longer be the case with Durango.

Good point, but it still wouldn't be very different from how it is now. Families often have their own gamertags between them if they're taking advantage of the family gold pack (which, admittedly had been stopped since a couple of months ago), but the suggestion it's their end game when they've already done exactly what's described is a bit far fetched.

 

[Broder Salsa]

Ugh the celebrations in here of him losing his job are not nice to read, even if he was acting like a dick on twitter.

 

[Neuromancer]

What does connected standby mean ? That it will be connected to the internet even when the console is turned off lol ?

Well not off but in a power saving mode. It could download demos and stuff if you had it set up to do that. Or maybe certain games could communicate asynchronously with other people even when you're not playing them.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

This I am ok with if there is an option to turn it off. I would also be ok with an online connection if it doesn't fuck with my game playing.

If my game shuts off after a 3 minute downtime off the internet, that is not acceptable. I haven't been able to play Diablo 3 for 3 months now because my connection is not good to Blizzard's servers. It's not even net disconnects, it's just packet loss that prevents me from playing.

NEVER AGAIN. I will quit gaming before I bend over for that stuff again. On line, ok. On line that screws with my core experience...fuck off.

I had this same D3 experience. One month for whatever reason I kept getting kicked to the main menu after about 10minutes of play each and every time. I wasn't totally kicked out of the game needing to login again, but just as if I exited the session, party intact if I had one. Very frustrating.

 

[wildfire]

DLC Escalation:

• 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
• 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
• 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
• 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

• 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
• 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
• 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
• 2016: Escalation: ????

Boom.


You bring up something that hasn't been talked about enough in the various discussions related to this. The most sinister aspect of the next Xbox possibly being always online is that it is confirmed through the DUrango dev kit that it can't function without a Kinect.

This would be the biggest invasion of our privacy a company would be trying to sell to us.

 

[itsgreen]

It really is hard to believe MS would choose to do it. The outrage when consumers can't play their games would be this ten fold.

 

[Teletraan1]

Like I said b4. I am not sure why they would get this cocky. A lot of PS2 owners switched to 360 this gen. With the rumored lack of BC nothing is stopping them from switching back. I feel they have failed to lock people into their ecosystem in the same way an Apple might have. #newgennewconsole

 

[Can Crusher]

It really is hard to believe MS would choose to do it. The outrage when consumers can't play their games would be this ten fold.

I no longer find it hard to believe at all. All you need to know is that someone who worked on Durango said the previous Xbox team has been replaced with your standard MS management team, goals have shifted, and there you have it.

The Xbox division was never a reflection of MS's practices. That's why it was hated inside MS for a large part of its life, and why shareholders hated it too.

 

[Petrae]

If Always-Online isn't true, then why fire the guy? Why not just issue a simple denial and apologize for his tone?

Whether the rumor verifies or not, the explosion of negative press and Internet reaction to Microsoft's next platform thanks to comments made by Orth justify his termination, if rumblings about the termination are accurate.

Once an employee's opinion is linked to his/her employer and thousands of comments sound off saying something to the effect of, "Screw ______, I'm not buying _______ now," then said employee has very possibly cost his employer hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage. Perhaps Microsoft finds a way to smooth things over, but much more work has been created and a rather large hole has been dug.

We see firings too often resulting from Twitter posts, pictures posted on Facebook, and other social media gaffes. It doesn't matter what you say about your thoughts "not representing your employer"-- that's simply not how social media works, and we need to start being more cognizant of this reality.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Boom.


You bring up something that hasn't been talked about enough in the various discussions related to this. The most sinister aspect of the next Xbox possibly being always online is that it is confirmed through the DUrango dev kit that it can't function without a Kinect.

This would be the biggest invasion of our privacy a company would be trying to sell to us.

I don't see it. The claims are too conspiracy theory-ish. The idea is obviously linked to a patent MS took out some time ago, but companies don't always implement their patents. Sony taking out a no used games patent for example or them taking out a patent to force ads that require the user to gesture along, etc.

 

[ThisWreckage]

I no longer find it hard to believe at all. All you need to know is that someone who worked on Durango said the previous Xbox team has been replaced with your standard MS management team, goals have shifted, and there you have it.

The Xbox division was never a reflection of MS's practices. That's why it was hated inside MS for a large part of its life, and why shareholders hated it too.

Almost none of the key members of the OG Xbox or the 360 teams are there anymore. They either left under their own volition or were pretty much given no choice. Personally, I feel like there's been an enormous internal struggle when it comes to what direction Microsoft wants to take this thing in.

 

[QaaQer]

If he is fired and if this is true about the next Xbox, Microsoft sure are a bunch of assholes.

thats not the half of it: http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer.print

they are pretty much the definition of the amoral Darwinian corporation, and I'm using 'Darwinian' in its pejorative sense.

 

[Neuromancer]

You bring up something that hasn't been talked about enough in the various discussions related to this. The most sinister aspect of the next Xbox possibly being always online is that it is confirmed through the DUrango dev kit that it can't function without a Kinect.

This would be the biggest invasion of our privacy a company would be trying to sell to us.

They haven't incorporated Kinect into the fold yet. Ask yourself why it always needs to be connected.

I know I said it in a previous thread on the subject, but I really was just joking when I suggested Steve Ballmer would use a kinect + always online to watch you masturbate.

MS doesn't have the manpower, the time or the inclination to spy on their customers. What would even be the point? And with so many people would have to be involved and the repercussions that would come of it going public, well its just not a reasonable conspiracy theory.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Could it be that always online means this?

https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/320508592929271808

Is Win8 required online?(never used Win8)

 

[spekkeh]

By the way, through all this, has anyone found a possible reason why MS would want to push this? Online DRM seems a given, as are games being played from the HDD so you can't sell them on. You don't need continuous online for either, nor for ads, just a most-of-the-time on, like Steam. Somebody else said that it ties into the subscription service model MSFT may be going for. But just like mobile phones, it's only the prepaid ones that have a simlock. You don't need to lock a device that's tied to a monthly subscription.

The only reasons I can fathom that they still push this is that they either do want to have a constant stream of player data, e.g. from the kinect (but they could probably buffer this and send it in packages if this always online garners too much hate), or that they plan to have a large cloud service, possibly even computing.

 

[spekkeh]

Is Win8 required online?(never used Win8)

No not at all. I could fire up my computer in the airplane, though couldn't play my games because of !%#@$ steam always online drm.

 

[hauton]

Sweet Billy's Dating a Retarded Person

Spoiler

it's himself, the narcissistic fuck

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

It really is hard to believe MS would choose to do it. The outrage when consumers can't play their games would be this ten fold.

i honestly don't see what's so hard to believe. look at windows 8, look at surface, look at the office 2013 license fiasco (which they eventually had to backtrack, if i'm not mistaken), all recent microsoft fiascos. all these rumors mean is that somewhere along the line this was supposed to be a feature of the durango. if it will happen or not (because of the possible backlash), who knows.

 

[Can Crusher]

Almost none of the key members of the OG Xbox or the 360 teams are there anymore. They either left under their own volition or were pretty much given no choice. Personally, I feel like there's been an enormous internal struggle when it comes to what direction Microsoft wants to take this thing in.

There was a struggle, there isn't anymore. The deram is ovah

 

[Miles Quaritch]

DLC Escalation:

• 2006: Horse Armor rears its ugly head. Lots of people laugh...lots of people buy it too. Thus begins the saga of DLC.
• 2007: Beautiful Katamari contains on-disc DLC. EA charge for tutorial videos previously free.
• 2008-2010: It starts to become obvious content is held back to be released as day 1 DLC. Games become less filled with content and far more filled with purchasable DLC. Outcry does little to stem the tide amidst all the people who do purchase it.
• 2011-Present: Escalates further: i.e. Dead Space 3s design seems to revolve around strongly encouraging players to purchase DLC.

Always-online DRM Escalation:

• 2013: Rumour that Durango requires always online to play games or even do anything. Kinect required too. If true, once released people will reluctantly #dealwithit.
• 2014: Microsoft implements update that uses kinect to detect who is in the room. The more people it detects, the more it'll charge for a movie rental or game. If kinect detects no-one, because it is covered, it outright refuses to do anything.
• 2015: Escalation: User data compiled will be used to increase subscription charges for those who often have more than one person using a single Durango, detected through Kinect.
• 2016: Escalation: ????

Have you actually played DS3 or did you just read a headline somewhere and believe it to be true? The gameplay in DS3 doesn't revolve around the concept of DLC, you're not forced to buy DLC to progress through the game nor is it vital for resources.

Your suggestion that MS will use Kinect to see how many in the room is ridiculous. You can point to the patent all you want, but there are hundreds of patents taken out companies every day and yet most of those are never implemented.

 

[wildfire]

Please, save me from this reductive bullshit. This news story has thoroughly penetrated the tech blogosphere and found its way onto major news media outlets. I found out about this debacle not from NeoGAF, but from a Forbes piece. If anything, the repercussions of implicitly unveiling a negative feature of a console ahead of its office announcement could possibly force a thorough restructuring of marketing strategies.

Finally caught up on why people think he may be unemployed. If it is true this post mirrors my own sentiments on why it should happen. A lot of marketing money would be pissed down the drain because of this debacle.

But that's if and only if MS intends to have this online only feature. It would suck if they overreacted and fired him for giving them a public black eye. Most people would accept their apology considering that Orth is one guy and not that high up in a leadership capacity.

I don't see it. The claims are too conspiracy theory-ish. The idea is obviously linked to a patent MS took out some time ago, but companies don't always implement their patents. Sony taking out a no used games patent for example or them taking out a patent to force ads that require the user to gesture along, etc.

We already have it confirmed that the next xbox can't function without the kinect active. There isn't anything tinfoilery about that.

Even if they never use it, beyond requiring it as a start plug, this feature combined with always online means one day MS servers will be hacked and other people will be invading our privacy.

[edit] Ok I see in the post above mine what patents you are referring to but that wasn't my underlying concern.

 

[Reiko]

There was a struggle, there isn't anymore. The deram is ovah

"Hey... Fire that dude who wanted the Xbox to have the most powerful GPU of the console generation! We don't need that shit!"

 

[Ol No Bones]

This only makes sense for the subscription model in my opinion. This is a way they can prevent subscribers from playing without paying. They could have a box where if you pay in full there are no issues. I just don't see the purpose otherwise.

 

[TheSeks]

I think I may have shinobi'd that guy. Sorry pal.

He was butthurt over "Cunt" And he sent a PM to the mods about it.

But he forgets it isn't a "sexual slur" outside of the US.

 

[spekkeh]

Have you actually played DS3 or did you just read a headline somewhere and believe it to be true? The gameplay in DS3 doesn't revolve around the concept of DLC, you're not forced to buy DLC to progress through the game nor is it vital for resources.

Your suggestion that MS will use Kinect to see how many in the room is ridiculous. You can point to the patent all you want, but there are hundreds of patents taken out companies every day and yet most of those are never implemented.

Ridiculous patents are generally not filed because they're ridiculously costly. Of course it doesn't mean they are going to implement it. But tracking the number of people with Kinect is also ridiculously easy, it's right there in the base functionality.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

No not at all. I could fire up my computer in the airplane, though couldn't play my games because of !%#@$ steam always online drm.

Wasn't steam have offline mode?

 

[Dennis]

:lol

If it turned out he was a Sony plant all along I would laugh till the end of time.

 

[test_account]

Wasn't steam have offline mode?

It does, but i think you need to go online first to activate it.

 

[linkboy]

Wasn't steam have offline mode?

Yes, it does. I was able to play my Ys games while I was deployed just fine.

 

[spekkeh]

Wasn't steam have offline mode?

Yes, but it sometimes randomly 'stops working' to force you to go online again.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

It would suck if they overreacted and fired him for giving them a public black eye. Most people would accept their apology considering that Orth is one guy and not that high up in a leadership capacity.

No, it wouldn't. It would be the right thing to do. He made an embarrassment out of himself and the company he works for with his comments.

Apologising might have worked if it hadn't spread across the internet as quickly as it did. It's a lesson to him and everyone else, if you're a representative for a company and you say stupid shit online,you're going to face serious, real world repercussions.

 

[Boss Man]

Wasn't steam have offline mode?

Yeah but it's weird. You have to have brought up Steam online recently enough, or something. Had a similar situation happen to me.

 

[itsgreen]

He was butthurt over "Cunt" And he sent a PM to the mods about it.

But he forgets it isn't a "sexual slur" outside of the US.

What a cunt I really hate it when people are oversensitive like this. It also makes me second-guess people with actual valid issues.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Yeah but it's weird. You have to have brought up Steam online recently enough, or something. Had a similar situation happen to me.

I haven't had this happen to me in over a year or so. It used to be a major problem, but it's been fixed, though I'm sure there is the random issue but I'd venture to guess that 95% of the time it works as it should.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Why did i stay out of this thread so long.

That Sunhi gif is the stuff of legend!

 

[Ding-Ding]

Have you actually played DS3 or did you just read a headline somewhere and believe it to be true? The gameplay in DS3 doesn't revolve around the concept of DLC, you're not forced to buy DLC to progress through the game nor is it vital for resources.

Your suggestion that MS will use Kinect to see how many in the room is ridiculous. You can point to the patent all you want, but there are hundreds of patents taken out companies every day and yet most of those are never implemented.

Does every patent see the light of day, no. The thing you are missing is that patents do tell a story. That one clearly indicates that a group of MS guys actually sat down, discussed the idea and liked it enough to patent it.

Even patents that will never see the light of day can tell consumers what mindset the company has.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

We already have it confirmed that the next xbox can't function without the kinect active. There isn't anything tinfoilery about that.

Even if they never use it, beyond requiring it as a start plug, this feature combined with always online means one day MS servers will be hacked and other people will be invading our privacy.

[edit] Ok I see in the post above mine what patents you are referring to but that wasn't my underlying concern.

The patent to see how many people are in the room with Kinect if/when watching a movie and charge for those extra individuals.

That's an interesting scenario and while it is certainly one that can happen, you're implying that MS will be spying using Kinect and that's how any hackers will breach your privacy. It's simply too far fetched. They don't have the resources to pull off such a feat.

Ridiculous patents are generally not filed because they're ridiculously costly. Of course it doesn't mean they are going to implement it. But tracking the number of people with Kinect is also ridiculously easy, it's right there in the base functionality.

The idea is that they'll implement the patent that stops people from watching a movie as a family/group. They may have filed a patent, but it's no different from any number of other patents, that as you point out, aren't implemented. It's a forward thinking measure to protect ones IP.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Why did i stay out of this thread so long.

That Sunhi gif is the stuff of legend!

Your challenge for today is reading all 184 pages.

 

[Krappadizzle]

What a cunt I really hate it when people are oversensitive like this. It also makes me second-guess people with actual valid issues.

Yeah, someone should have made them a whiny-baby sandwich to appease them.

Why did i stay out of this thread so long.

That Sunhi gifs is the stuff of legend!

fixed

You should look up some of his past ones. They are fantastic.

 

[Mavromatis]

It does, but i think you need to go online first to activate it.

Allow me to use this opportunity to post this:
Always Force Offline Mode
Basically you put a text file on Steam folder and start it after that to get offline mod without any problems.

 

[spekkeh]

Yes, it does. I was able to play my Ys games while I was deployed just fine.

To be fair I've had one 'experiment computer' with a half life mod that could stay in offline mode for well over a year. I think you have to turn off all automatic updating everywhere, put Steam in offline mode, and then disconnect the internet completely. Then it works for long periods, mostly. If you just use your laptop normally and the internet is spotty because you move out and into wifi zones, it gets a lot more problematic.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Does every patent see the light of day, no. The thing you are missing is that patents do tell a story. That one clearly indicates that a group of MS guys actually sat down, discussed the idea and liked it enough to patent it.

Even patents that will never see the light of day can tell consumers what mindset the company has.

So Sony's mindset is to blocked used games and implement ads that force users to act along to those ads?

Or is it only a one way street?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

He was butthurt over "Cunt" And he sent a PM to the mods about it.

But he forgets it isn't a "sexual slur" outside of the US.

Wow. "I thought it was the end because that's where I stopped watching in disgust". What a whiny cunt. He didn't stick around for the hilarious Wii U ending. Also, the way those guys keep talking about the Terms of Service is giving me Denis Dyack flashbacks. Hope they don't try to move in and shut the place down. Because someday, somebody will.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Wow. "I thought it was the end because that's where I stopped watching in disgust". What a whiny cunt. He didn't stick around for the hilarious Wii U ending. Also, the way those guys keep talking about the Terms of Service is giving me Denis Dyack flashbacks. Hope they don't try to move in and shut the place down. Because someday, somebody will.

Seems unnecessary.

 

[spirity]

He was butthurt over "Cunt" And he sent a PM to the mods about it.

But he forgets it isn't a "sexual slur" outside of the US.

I'm always using that word. I often use it on my friends and they do the same to me. When I use it, most of the time its used as a term of endearment, prefaced by "you silly" or something.

I know its offensive to use when addressing people of other countries outside the UK, so I don't do it, but I didn't know it was a sexual slur. So cunt is a sexual slur, but slang/nicknames for penis isn't?

 

[QaaQer]

That still doesn't change the fact that Durango is going to be the most relentlessly cynical gaming machine that has ever existed.

Best quote to come out of this whole thread.

 

[Mavromatis]

To be fair I've had one 'experiment computer' with a half life mod that could stay in offline mode for well over a year. I think you have to turn off all automatic updating everywhere, put Steam in offline mode, and then disconnect the internet completely. Then it works for long periods, mostly. If you just use your laptop normally and the internet is spotty because you move out and into wifi zones, it gets a lot more problematic.

The only time you actually need internet connection, besides the multiplayer games and "social" features, is when you are installing or updating a game. I use this offline method on my netbook. I copy the games from my desktop, verify the files using steam, when it is done I go back to offline mod again.

 

[Ding-Ding]

So Sony's mindset is to blocked used games and implement ads that force users to act along to those ads?

Or is it only a one way street?

Not at all. That crap was bad. However, if you think shouting mcdonalds at a TV screen is the same as spying on people in their own homes, then you have serious issues

EDIT. Hold on, your the guy who praised MS for being open & honest regarding always online while implying Sony was deceitful. Yeah I see this conversation will turn into a head/brickwall job

 

[Boss Man]

I'm always using that word. I often use it on my friends and they do the same to me. When I use it, most of the time its used as a term of endearment, prefaced by "you silly" or something.

I know its offensive to use when addressing people of other countries outside the UK, so I don't do it, but I didn't know it was a sexual slur. So cunt is a sexual slur, but slang/nicknames for penis isn't?

I don't think he was actually offended by a word in a .gif. He's convinced himself that he and his hat are fighting the good fight, while the truth is probably a lot more base.

 

[Socky]

See that just asumes MS is an evil entity doing things out of spite. An offline customer isn't worth having, but keeping a customer in their marketplace is worth it. XBL is already built around keeping you exposed to as much advertisement and content as possible. With an online only console, they bring this model to it's next logical evolution.

I wasn't assuming anything, I was saying is was possible. If the console has to be connected to Microsoft servers for it to work then Microsoft have total control over if and when you use it. How they exercise that power and for what reasons is up to them, but if they decide you've committed an infraction in some manner then they are perfectly able to shut down your console. Whether they are willing to do so is another question entirely.