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Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Announced (12", 3:2 aspect ratio, new stand)

strata8

Member

"Cons: Heavy and bulky for a slate tablet. Type Cover costs $130 extra. Integrated pen storage is flimsy. Only one USB 3.0 port. Kickstand still digs into your legs when used in your lap. Doesn't work with last-generation Surface accessories. Performance is not better than that of the previous iteration."

Holy shit! Surface Pro 2 cons in comparison (rated: 4.5/5):

"Cons: Keyboard cover is optional. Only one USB 3.0 port. Kickstand still digs into your legs."

I would be fine if he treated them equally, but he chooses to slam issues that were already present on the SP2 (type cover cost, pen storage) or were worse (heavy and bulky). He even has the gall to recommend the SP2 instead, claiming it is $300 cheaper (it isn't).
 

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
Only reviews worth looking at for most people's issues are anandtech and mobile tech review.
 

Totakeke

Member
Sometimes it just feels like the conclusion is made first then the arguments are made afterwards to support the conclusion (like coldfoot). Well no big deal. This is a device made for enthusiasts and having stellar reviews is not as important.

Manga reading now fills up the whole screen.
Thfg96T.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzVREc9OQE
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
One more thought about the N-Trig pen. Namely, the 256 levels of pressure vs 1024 of Wacom.

Some history first. Wacom's Tablet PC hardware for the longest time, has been 256 levels of pressure.

Yeah, I'm not really worried about 256 levels of pressure sensitivity at all, I used a Graphire tablet for years and it was perfectly fine.

Sometimes it just feels like the conclusion is made first then the arguments are made afterwards to support the conclusion (like coldfoot). Well no big deal. This is a device made for enthusiasts and having stellar reviews is not as important.

Manga reading now fills up the whole screen.
Thfg96T.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzVREc9OQE

That will be great. I read comics and magazines on my Dell Venue 8 Pro and it's great but having the borders or clipping the sides is kinda sucky. I think a 12 inch screen will be perfect for that, unless I'm in bed where the smaller tablet makes more sense.
 

Feep

Banned
This is pretty lame. I guess that's how they get it to fit in such a small package though. Have you been able to try any other games out on it?
I tried Sequence, but due to my coding of that game, I knew it would work out fine. I'm gonna try Portal 2 sometime soon.
Feep would you be willing to run some tests for us? I can link you to a couple of 3d software websites where you can download fully functional 15-30 day trial versions. You don't need to be an artist to use em, just load up a file I can email you and tell us how the performance is and also whether you have pressure sensitivity in those apps with the MS wintab driver they mentioned at their blog.

I would appreciate this so much because it sucks waiting for info on this.
Sure
 

TxdoHawk

Member
Hmm...the more I read about the Surface 3 Pro, the more I think I want a 2 instead. I'm interested in some semi-portable gaming, so the lack of high performance mode + the higher-res screen are issues.

I guess I'm going to have to fight for one with the Wacom die-hards if and when they go on clearance.
 

Totakeke

Member
Missed this from Gabe's impressions from PA.

The other possibility is that the new Surface 3 sporting the i7 processor might provide the extra juice I need for my work. MS has said they are going to get me that model ASAP and I’ll let you all know how that goes. It’s also worth noting that this is me trying to run it at the new max resolution. I can drop the res down and see some significant performance boosts. Down around 1650x1050 it is positively snappy but gives me black bars at the top and bottom of the screen.

I’ve been really impressed with my MS contact Markus who has been listening to all my gripes about the new device. He’s been offering solutions when he could and passing all my feedback over to their engineers. I don’t like dumping on a product that I’ve loved so much in the past but I feel like this is important stuff that they need to hear. Markus told me today that “Artists are a really important audience for us and we want to make this a great device for artists – I want you to know that your honest feedback is helping us tremendously in getting there.” That’s a class act right there.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2014/05/23/surface-pro-3

Must be nice having all the hardware you want.
 
Sometimes it just feels like the conclusion is made first then the arguments are made afterwards to support the conclusion (like coldfoot). Well no big deal. This is a device made for enthusiasts and having stellar reviews is not as important.

Manga reading now fills up the whole screen.
Thfg96T.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzVREc9OQE

the only thing that's making me get an iPad mini is Marvel Unlimited app or comic book.

there's nothing
 

Totakeke

Member
MS brought the comparison upon themselves by spending half the press show doing the same so it's hard to blame reviewers imo

It's a compromised laptop and a terrible tablet. #wow #whoa

There's a difference between reviewing a device for what it's not and what it is. They never said Surface Pro 3 is strictly a better laptop than your MBA, they never said Surface Pro 3 is a strictly a better tablet than your iPad, they said that Surface Pro 3 is a better replacement than lugging both your MBA and iPads around with you. Whether or not you agree is a different matter, but comparing it against iPads and MBAs separately then calling it a terrible device is missing the point. If you want two separate devices with specialized functions then buy two separate devices.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
There's a difference between reviewing a device for what it's not and what it is. They never said Surface Pro 3 is strictly a better laptop than your MBA, they never said Surface Pro 3 is a strictly a better tablet than your iPad, they said that Surface Pro 3 is a better replacement than lugging both your MBA and iPads around with you. Whether or not you agree is a different matter, but comparing it against iPads and MBAs separately then calling it a terrible device is missing the point. If you want two separate devices with specialized functions then buy two separate devices.
Although I agree with you, they did this all under the pretense that this is the future of laptops and eventually this will replace the laptop.

Microsoft had a bit of the same problem with messaging with the Kinect. They make very bold claims, specify them afterwards, and expect the market to respond in line with their comparison. They corner themselves.
 

Totakeke

Member
Although I agree with you, they did this all under the pretense that this is the future of laptops and eventually this will replace the laptop.

Microsoft had a bit of the same problem with messaging with the Kinect. They make very bold claims, specify them afterwards, and expect the market to respond in line with their comparison. They corner themselves.

Yes, well, there's surely the expectation whether a product Microsoft has introduced will take over the market and be the new future, because that's what Apple has done and people compare these two companies... but do we really want all devices to be like that? To me it's okay if some products are more niche than others. Compare the scale of the Surface Pro 3 unveiling to the unveiling of Apple devices, they're definitely not in the same realm either.

Maybe five or ten years down the road, another company will unveil their version of the SP3 or Kinect when Microsoft has abandoned these products then people will laugh at Microsoft for being late to the party again.
 
So is the Surface Pro 2 being discontinued or sold alongside the SP3? I actually am hoping for a price drop on the SP2 as I prefer the 16:9 aspect screen for watching video which would be my primary use of the SP2, if the price dropped and I could buy one.
 

maeh2k

Member
So is the Surface Pro 2 being discontinued or sold alongside the SP3? I actually am hoping for a price drop on the SP2 as I prefer the 16:9 aspect screen for watching video which would be my primary use of the SP2, if the price dropped and I could buy one.

It's going to be discontinued.
 

Totakeke

Member
More reviews are up.

The Surface Pro 3 can do all those things. It also can crank out spreadsheets and run Photoshop or AutoCAD, just like a laptop. But these days, many people want physically distinct devices for work and for play, not a half measure solution that does both. Changing hardware triggers a different state of mind. I’m working, I’ll use my laptop. I’m playing, I’ll use a tablet. You need breaks from both.

During my hands-on tests, which consisted of typing out this review, downloading and running most of the software I usually install on a Windows machine (Spotify, GIMP, Netflix, a few games, Dropbox, etc.), and trying to drain the battery as quickly as possible via Netflix streams, I didn’t notice any performance compromises as compared to any laptop I’ve used for work. In terms of hardware compromises, there are a few: The speakers are comparatively weak and tinny-sounding, you don’t get the same array of ports or a user-serviceable battery as you do on a laptop, and as much as the Type Cover makes an admirable effort, it can’t quite live up to the comfort of typing on a decent laptop keyboard.

Ultimately, whether you’d like the Surface Pro 3 to replace your laptop boils down to a value proposition. Is it worth paying a premium for an ultra-slim device that provides full Windows PC functionality? That is what this machine is, and if you are the target market for it, you will use it as a laptop 70 to 80 percent of the time. Similarly configured Windows laptops with touchscreens, Intel Core i5 or i7 processors, 8GB RAM, and 256GB of storage cost at least a few hundred dollars less. It’s a machine that makes a ton of sense for business deployments, road warriors, casual photo editors, and artists. With the Surface Pro 3, you’re paying not just for the individual components, but for the sheer thin-and-lightness of it all.

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/surface-tension/

Their proponents argue that instead of being compared to tablets and laptops, the devices instead form a new category. Even that approach is problematic, though. There are other hybrid devices on the market, such as Lenovo's excellent and expensive ThinkPad Helix; those devices do at least as good a job of supporting tablet scenarios while managing to do a far better job of supporting laptop scenarios. If there is truly a space in the market between the tablet and the laptop, the Surface Pro range still comes off as second best.

There are many ways that a company could react to this information. It could decide that the two categories are sufficiently different that their continued coexistence should be supported and that the best way to approach the market would be a pair of related but different products: a best of breed tablet, and a best of breed laptop. And throughout the Surface Pro 3 presentation, the benchmark used for comparisons was a laptop: namely, the MacBook Air.

But Microsoft has not built a laptop.

Microsoft's target, such as it is, are all those people carrying around both a laptop and a tablet. Microsoft thinks that's suboptimal. One device can do it all, and that device is the Surface Pro 3.

The Surface Pro 3 is still a tablet. It's a bigger tablet, it's a thinner tablet, it's a lighter tablet, but it remains a tablet. In just about every way, though, it's a different tablet from the Surface Pro 2.

The pen is actually two active parts in one. There's the N-Trig stylus part, which is powered by a AAAA battery and sports two side buttons (one for erase, one for right click), as well as the 256 pressure level tip. At the other end, there's a button similar to the clicky button you'd find on a retractable ballpoint. This button is completely separate from the actual drawing part of the pen. It's driven by a pair of coin cells and connects to the Surface Pro 3 using Bluetooth.

Pressing this button fires up the Metro version of OneNote. If Metro OneNote is running in the foreground already, it creates a new note. If the device is locked, it starts Metro OneNote in a special locked-down mode that lets you write things down but does not allow access to saved notes, the file system, or anything else. If the screen is off when the button is pressed, it will come on.

The idea here is simple: whatever you are doing with the Surface Pro 3, you can always, with a single click of the purple pen button, start OneNote to start jotting down ideas.

My pen experience was problematic. The first unit I had seemed to be defective; pressing one of the buttons on the barrel of the pen would almost always result in the tablet losing contact with it. It no longer laid down ink and did not show the on-screen indication of where the tip was, and then the two stopped talking to each other entirely (though the separate, Bluetooth-driven end button continued to work). After a few minutes, the pen would once again be recognized and I could once again use it to draw.

Even when it was working, it seemed temperamental. The system would register as if I were touching the screen even when hovering. This meant that when writing things down, my text would become even more indecipherable than it normally is, as there would be lines joining everything together because the system didn't notice that I was lifting the pen between strokes. This behavior was intermittent, however. Some times it would work exactly as it should, registering that the pen was touching the screen only when it was.

Microsoft sent me a replacement pen (it would normally cost about $50 to buy a new one—another downside of active pens relative to passive ones), and it worked perfectly.

Adobe Photoshop stubbornly refuses to use the Microsoft-provided pen API, instead depending on the Wacom's WinTab API for its pen support. After installing the WinTab driver from N-Trig's website, Photoshop gained basic pen functionality. The pen doesn't include the tilt/orientation support that the high-end Wacom pens support. In this regard, it's no different from the previous Surface Pros, as they didn't appear to have tilt support either. If this is a feature you want in a tablet, you'll have to fork out for one of Wacom's extraordinarily expensive Cintiq devices.

But I don't believe that Microsoft's approach of using a kickstand with a loose hinge can ever produce a machine that can properly fill the laptop role. This is Microsoft's third attempt to optimize this design for laptop-style usage. It's still not good enough. I'm not sure if it ever will be. And what's so frustrating is that we've seen form factors that can pull this off: the clamshell keyboard attachments as used by the Lenovo Helix, and countless HP models such as the Spectre x2, Split x2, and Pavillion x2. They do it. They work, and they give that all important "lapability."

I would love to see a Surface that uses the design of these competitors, but Microsoft apparently won't give me one. Microsoft calls the Surface Pro 3 "the tablet that can replace your laptop." Until the company ships a clamshell keyboard, that's just not the case. As a result, I'm disappointed every time I use it. Microsoft is promising the thing I want, and it has shown it has the engineering prowess to deliver what I want. It's just not actually doing so.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/surface-pro-3-review-is-the-third-time-the-charm/3/

Keyboard docks never give you sufficient mobility. Peter Bright is probably not a commuter. Meh.
 

maeh2k

Member
More reviews are up.

"But these days, many people want physically distinct devices for work and for play, not a half measure solution that does both. Changing hardware triggers a different state of mind. I’m working, I’ll use my laptop. I’m playing, I’ll use a tablet. You need breaks from both."

Those reviewers really seem to know 'what the people want'...
 

Schlep

Member
I have a work account and a personal account on my SP2. Problem solved.

Anyone who calls it a half measure for either a laptop or tablet is ridiculous. I guess maybe if you can't do without iPad games or have to have a giant screen on a laptop for some reason.
 

ksdixon

Member
I find that I only use the PC Settings cog icon on the charms menu. For going to the start screen I always tend to use the button on the tablet because it's an option and I've never needed to get used-to pressing anything else.

But, seeing as this button has moved to being next to the charms menu start button on the SPro 3, it leads me to believe it is redundant, and with a little time to get used-to it, people would get used to using the button on the charms menu.
 

Totakeke

Member
I do agree with some comments I've read that the "lapability" issue is overblown. How often and for how many people do you really have to do serious work while having access only to a chair without a table? These tech journalists do because they need to write articles while conferences are happening, but for the rest of us?

It's not like you can't use the device on the go. You can use the on screen keyboard with a touch screen, you can still hold the device up, you can still comfortably put the device down too without a keyboard attached if you're concerned for space, to browse, to read, or even do minor edits on documents on the go... which can also be accomplished with the pen. The keyboard is required for significant amounts of typing, but we all know that's not the only function of a computing device.

Yes now you can think of all those situations where you needed to work on your lap, if you do have that issue often then go buy a real laptop. I commute often and I don't believe I've ever seen people typing out paragraphs while on the go, laptop or not.
 

Totakeke

Member
They're also confirming the processor models.

The base model, available for pre-order now and shipping in August, has an i3-4020Y processor, running at 1.5 GHz, with Intel HD4200 graphics. This model has only a single configuration, with 4 GB of memory and 64 GB of storage.

You've got Surface Pro 3 questions, I've got answers
The model that Microsoft showed off at its press event on May 20 contains an i5-4300U processor, running at a clock speed of 1.9 GHz and Turbo boost up to 2.9 GHz, with HD4400 graphics. (This is the same processor used in the Surface Pro 2.) It's available in two configurations, one with 4GB of memory and 128 GB of storage and the other with 8 GB of memory and 256 GB of storage. Both configurations will ship in the U.S. and Canada on June 20 and will be available worldwide in August.

The top model in the new line has an i7-4650U processor, running at a clock speed of 1.7 GHz with a maximum Turbo frequency of 3.3 GHz and HD5000 graphics. Like all Intel mobile processors in the 15W category, this is a dual-core part. Both configurations include 8GB of memory, with a choice of 256 GB or 512 GB of storage, and will ship worldwide in August.

For those concerned about multiple monitor support, Microsoft engineers tell me they've tested these scenarios thoroughly. The i3-based model can comfortably drive two Full HD (1920x1200 at 60 Hz) displays, while the i5 and i7 models can power two external displays at a maximum resolution of 2880x1800 each at 60 Hz.

In all cases, you need to make the connection to the external monitors using the mini-DisplayPort adapter on the side of the device. For a single monitor, you can use an adapter to output to HDMI, DVI, or VGA. For dual displays you need either a DisplayPort hub or monitors that support DisplayPort chaining. In any configuration, you can continue to use the built-in touchscreen in addition to the external displays.

http://www.zdnet.com/which-cpus-will-you-find-in-the-surface-pro-3-7000029820/
 

Totakeke

Member
So the i3 model could also have a much better battery life than the others since it's using the Y processor. Interesting choice there.
 

Chichikov

Member
That better be true! Someone should ask Panos during his AMA.
It is.
I believe that's the exact same CPU as in the top of line MacBook Air.

Anyway, the HD5000 makes the 256GB i7 seem a bit more enticing, I'll wait for some more in depth real world comparisons and tests.
 
Fatwallet offers an additional 4% cash back and Ebates offers an additional 3.5% cash back. Not bad when combined with the 10% off student discount.
 

ksdixon

Member
The restricted power options is a bust. Could the SPro3 not handle working at high performance or something?

It seems as though there are too many shortcuts taken to accomodate the new pen and it's 'wakeup and take notes' feature. Do we have any confirmation on if that is MS's own choice or Wacom's demand because SPro 1&2 were taking away Wacom device sales?
 

Totakeke

Member
The restricted power options is a bust. Could the SPro3 not handle working at high performance or something?

It seems as though there are too many shortcuts taken to accomodate the new pen and it's 'wakeup and take notes' feature. Do we have any confirmation on if that is MS's own choice or Wacom's demand because SPro 1&2 were taking away Wacom device sales?

Connected standby isn't just useful for notes.

Has anyone ever benchmarked how high performance options increase the performance anyway?
 

Azulsky

Member
Connected standby isn't just useful for notes.

Has anyone ever benchmarked how high performance options increase the performance anyway?

Havent seen that yet but I would expect it to be pretty marginal unless you break out the adobe suite or graphical benchmarks to leverage the HD5000
 

Bsigg12

Member
I have a work account and a personal account on my SP2. Problem solved.

Anyone who calls it a half measure for either a laptop or tablet is ridiculous. I guess maybe if you can't do without iPad games or have to have a giant screen on a laptop for some reason.

You know, if I'm going to use this to play games, it'll be at home. There, I'll just use Steam streaming to push games from my desktop to the Surface and not worry about limitations due to hardware. I don't really play games away from home because I just don't have time when I'm out and about and if I have my tablet with me, it's to pull up files for work and access a secure network to upload pictures and signed documents.
 

IronChef

Banned
It seems the main negative point reviewers keep bringing up is still the lack of lap-ability and stability on an uneven surface. So as a legitimate laptop replacement that's a no-go.

It seems to me that for the Surface to succeed in that regard, they will need to make the device even thinner and lighter, AND offer an alternative sturdy keyboard+dock base that the surface can snap onto and rotate with a sturdy hinge (something like the Helix, but better). And this base will need to be heavier than the Surface Pro to properly balance it like a normal laptop. But it would have extra useful things like more USB ports, and a MASSIVE battery that can power the surface for 24hrs straight.

I imagine this will not happen until they can make the Surface Pro closer to 1.0 lbs, and this theoretical base 1.5 lbs. (so the entire combo is still as portable as an ultrabook).

Perhaps this can be done when it gets to Surface Pro 5?
 

TxdoHawk

Member
I just wonder if the whole "lapability" thing is a bit overblown. I understand for tech journalists it's a big thing, because they are constantly sardine-canned into conferences with seats and no tables, and I'm sure there are other people in unrelated circumstances who also constantly need lap use...but I can't think of the last time I personally wasn't using a table or flat surface of some kind for my laptops. Am I alone on this?
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
I just wonder if the whole "lapability" thing is a bit overblown. I understand for tech journalists it's a big thing, because they are constantly sardine-canned into conferences with seats and no tables, and I'm sure there are other people in unrelated circumstances who also constantly need lap use...but I can't think of the last time I personally wasn't using a table or flat surface of some kind for my laptops. Am I alone on this?
I think lapability matters to the exact audience they are selling to. People who need to move their laptop between a conference room, studio and on-the-go.
 

dLMN8R

Member
I think lapability matters to the exact audience they are selling to. People who need to move their laptop between a conference room, studio and on-the-go.

That's the audience it matters to the least. I've literally never seen anyone actually put a laptop on their lap in a conference room, because that's what conference room tables are for.
 
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