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Microsoft Surface Pro 3 Announced (12", 3:2 aspect ratio, new stand)

B

brotkasten

Member
-COOLIO- said:
so sp2 owners, the ultimate question:

type cover 2 or 3?
Click to expand...

While you can connect a TP3 to a SP2, it won't look good.

UZP0cpG.jpg
 
A

Apath

Member
-COOLIO- said:
so sp2 owners, the ultimate question:

type cover 2 or 3?
Click to expand...
If you're asking whether to keep the Type Cover 2 or upgrade to the Type Cover 3 for your SP2, then TC2 is the obvious choice. TC3 is too big for the SP2 and has difficulty staying flush to the screen due to the lack of magnets on the SP2.
 
A

Akyan

Member
Totakeke said:
I'm sorry for complicating your life guys...

Wm4EsbI.png

https://twitter.com/BucksterMcgee/status/469494507290255360/photo/1
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/26absk/i7_versions_uses_the_4650u_which_has_intel_hd/

i7-4650U -> Intel HD 5000
http://ark.intel.com/products/75114/Intel-Core-i7-4650U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz
Click to expand...

I pre-ordered the i7 version thinking it might only have the 4400. This is great news, should play some of the lower end games even better than I hoped.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Just called my local MS store. No deal. They said the GRADUATION code won't work since the device is still not available yet and it will expire the 2nd week of June [just before the SP3 is available]. Good times. :/
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
So what's the deal with these Surface tablets?

It's essentially still a PC?

If I can install Steam and play Football Manager on this I might lose my shit.
 
A

Akyan

Member
Bumhead said:
So what's the deal with these Surface tablets?

It's essentially still a PC?

If I can install Steam and play Football Manager on this I might lose my shit.
Click to expand...

It's a "proper" PC, you can play anything you'd be able to play on a normal laptop, spec permitting.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Bumhead said:
So what's the deal with these Surface tablets?

It's essentially still a PC?

If I can install Steam and play Football Manager on this I might lose my shit.
Click to expand...

They're Ultrabooks (really thin notebooks) with a tablet form factor and run full Windows, which means you can install whatever you want, including Steam and Football Manager.
 
I

Irminsul

Member
Totakeke said:
I'm sorry for complicating your life guys...

Wm4EsbI.png

https://twitter.com/BucksterMcgee/status/469494507290255360/photo/1
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/26absk/i7_versions_uses_the_4650u_which_has_intel_hd/

i7-4650U -> Intel HD 5000
http://ark.intel.com/products/75114/Intel-Core-i7-4650U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz
Click to expand...
Now that's nice. Although it's interesting that the i7 4650U seems to have a much lower base frequency than the 4600U. Which is probably irrelevant anyway.
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
RayStorm said:
Perhaps my interpretation is off, but I believe the nitpick is more about it being a micro-SD slot rather than a slat for full size SD cards. Which I too find worth mentioning and see as a slight negative. I don't want to have to buy an expensive micro SD card that is still slower than a full size card to easily review images from my camera.
Click to expand...

Even if it had a full size SD card wouldn't be easier to just connect the camera via USB?
 
L

LukasTaves

Member
D

Doominated

Member
D

Doominated

Member
brotkasten said:
Surface Pro 3 review by The Verge

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/23/5743416/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review
Click to expand...

I don't know why I'm always amazed at how ridiculous their reviews are.

The Windows ecosystem gets a 9 from them
"So-so (meaning "average") battery life is a "bad thing"
They mention no full size SD slot when NO tablet has that (That i can think of anyway). And in their iPad Air review they don't even mention the lack of mSD
They also docked the camera 2 points lower than the Air, despite them being pretty much the same cameras
The fact that they can call a design that is the THINEST AND LIGHTEST device with a core-series processor in it only an 8/10 is ridiculous
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
I always laugh at the ecosystem score

It's Windows, ffs. It is THE software ecosystem. It has no equal. It has an app catalog spanning 30 years.

It has IE which makes most of the competing tablet apps irrelevant, too.
 
M

mangochutney

Member
Doominated said:
I don't know why I'm always amazed at how ridiculous their reviews are.

The Windows ecosystem gets a 9 from them
"So-so (meaning "average") battery life is a "bad thing"
They mention no full size SD slot when NO tablet has that (That i can think of anyway). And in their iPad Air review they don't even mention the lack of mSD
They also docked the camera 2 points lower than the Air, despite them being pretty much the same cameras
The fact that they can call a design that is the THINEST AND LIGHTEST device with a core-series processor in it only an 8/10 is ridiculous
Click to expand...
Because design is not just about the thin-ness of a product.

'So-so battery life' can be bad if it is a premium product with a premium price tag. They're basically saying they expect premium battery life, not just run of the mill battery life.

And different reviewers for different products is how you end up with different scores for things that are very similar, like the cameras.
 
P

Pooya

Member
verge review spends more words talking about window 8 than the hardware itself. Win8 is old news now, everybody know what this is, it's like they couldn't find much to nag about on the hardware side.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
DopeyFish said:
I always laugh at the ecosystem score

It's Windows, ffs. It is THE software ecosystem. It has no equal. It has an app catalog spanning 30 years.

It has IE which makes most of the competing tablet apps irrelevant, too.
Click to expand...

It still comes with the Windows Store and that has to be judged in one way. And I'm tired of hearing how it doesn't need apps, because of IE. IE is good for a tablet browser, but it can't replace a good native app.
 
T

tenchir

Member
I got my Surface Pro 2 about 3-4 months ago and I am not that salty about the quick release of the Surface Pro 3. Performance wise it is identical(both have i5 4300u). Battery life is still the same. The differences of weight, display size, and dimensions(need to buy new accessories) are relatively minor. The biggest difference between model as far as I am concerned is resolution and digitizer. I don't think a higher resolution screen affect me that much, but the lack of a wacom digitizer in favor of N-trig is a negative for me.
 
V

Vyer

Member
Totakeke said:
JA71VgD.png

Will be interesting to hear his thoughts on the new pen.

0wuaH8I.png

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/why-surface/for-creating
Click to expand...

Looks like he's happy with the pen, but frustrated with the device.

The new Surface pen is solid though and much nicer than the old pack in pen. This one is thicker and actually reminds me a lot of the Bamboo feel.

The pressure sensitivity has been reduced from 1024 down to 256 (for reference a Wacom Cintiq has 2048) and that scared the hell out of me. Numbers are supposed to get bigger with new computers not smaller. This isn’t Wacom though it’s N-trig and I have to admit whatever wizardry they are using is pretty impressive. The pen is still incredibly responsive with very little drawing lag and I still feel like I’m getting nice smooth lines.
Click to expand...

This new position covers up the location of the Windows button and so MS decided to move that button to the right hand side of the Surface Pro 3. No big deal right? Except that as a right handed drawer this is the exact spot my hand goes when drawing and navigating menus.

Sometimes depending on how I touch it the button simply provides its haptic buzz to the side of my hand. Other times it will actually activate and throw me back out to the desktop. It’s either simply annoying or actually disruptive. Tycho came over after hearing me cursing at the thing and I showed him what was up. I tried drawing a little and ended up getting kicked out to the desktop three times in the space of just a couple minutes.
Click to expand...

The other problem is performance. The Surface Pro 3 I was given has the i5 processor in it and is essentially the same guts as my old Surface Pro 2. The thing is, now those same guts are driving a larger 12” screen with a stunning 2160X1440 resolution. Honestly if it didn’t feel slower I’d be surprised. There’s noticible cursor lag and stuttering when navigating files in PS and Manga Studio. When moving my pen over to make a menu selection I can see the cursor lagging behind. Working on a comic strip, It feels like I’m dragging the cursor through syrup. Strangely that lag doesn’t seem to be present when I’m actually drawing with the pen touching the surface. Moving around the image also feels slow with some stuttering and screen tearing. Overall it just feels like it can’t keep up with what I’m asking it to do.

They have also removed the “high performance” power option from the Surface Pro 3. It used to be that you could essentially tell the Surface “fuck my battery I want you to kick ass” and that’s no longer an option.
Click to expand...
 
S

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I didn't even consider the fact that the button is right where your wrist rests when drawing. That's very... shortsighted. So obvious now.
 
dem

dem

Member
Can you disable the windows button?

It really is pretty much useless. Just as fast to use the charms bar.
 
A

Animator

Member
Interesting. I am curious if the i7 one will improve the drawing performance. It is a bummer he is saying the performance is much worse than the SP2 though. Maybe MS can unlock the high performance mode with a FW update. I don't mind getting 3 hours of battery life instead of 8 if it means I can work smoothly.

Also in my experience photoshop is a slow piece of shit as far as brush performance goes. I wasn't impressed with photoshop in SP2 either but sketchbook pro ran like a dream.
 
V

Vyer

Member
Ape said:
Can you not just position it so that the Windows key is on the left side when you draw?
Click to expand...

dem said:
Can you disable the windows button?

It really is pretty much useless.
Click to expand...

He mentioned that too:

At first I thought I was a smart guy and I just turned the machine 180 degrees putting that home button over on the left. Ahh but then the Kickstand doesn’t work. Doh! I sent my feedback over to my contacts at MS and they came back to me with a way to disable the home button. It’s a trick that involves going into your device manager and unchecking a box essentially. It’s not hard to do but it has the side effect of also disabling all the other hard buttons on the device like volume and sleep. Tycho thinks he can fix it with something he called a “command line prompt” and he said the word registry a couple of times which seemed to get him very excited.

Disabling the home button in the device manager works and solves the problem to some degree. The issue is that while it no longer bumps me out to the desktop is still gives its little haptic buzz each time I brush it with my hand.
Click to expand...

Perhaps there will be a software fix in the future for just disabling that button? A drawing mode or something? I dunno.
 
B

Bob Dobalina

Member
LukasTaves said:
Even if it had a full size SD card wouldn't be easier to just connect the camera via USB?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what benefit there is to adding a cable and an extra step to the simple process of removing an SD card from a camera and placing it in the computer.

That home button placement issue is something so simple yet so potentially annoying I'm amazed nobody caught it in testing. Welp.
 
S

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Vyer said:
He mentioned that too:



Perhaps there will be a software fix in the future for just disabling that button? A drawing mode or something? I dunno.
Click to expand...

That's really bad. Surely MS has a solution in the pipeline. Maybe "disable button when in X software" and you check the software, just like start-up items?
 
D

Doominated

Member
mangochutney said:
Because design is not just about the thin-ness of a product.

'So-so battery life' can be bad if it is a premium product with a premium price tag. They're basically saying they expect premium battery life, not just run of the mill battery life.

And different reviewers for different products is how you end up with different scores for things that are very similar, like the cameras.
Click to expand...

So you're saying that the Surface Pro 3 isn't proof of incredible design?

And 8-9 hours is hardly "run of the mill" for a device with this kind of power.
 
A

Ape

Banned
Yeah, that's shitty. Really poor button placement for artists.

wait, that review said 8 hours of battery life was "okay". lololololololololollolollolooooololollollolololollolool
 
A

Apath

Member
Why did they feel the need to move the Windows button in the first place? If it's covered by the type cover, it means you're using a keyboard which has its own Windows button on it..
Ape said:
Yeah, that's shitty. Really poor button placement for artists.

wait, that review said 8 hours of battery life was "okay". lololololololololollolollolooooololollollolololollolool
Click to expand...
Doesn't the Macbook Air get over 10 hours? If so, 8 hours is just "okay" when being compared.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
So not only is the hardware button not in line with the software button, but it's also annoying? That is really disappointing. Disabling the button should be part of the palm rejection.
 
G

GodParticle

Member
2 questions:

Will this run cooler than the 1st gen? I tried that one for a bit and it got really hot
Will the base i3 model be enough if I just want it for a photoshop tablet?

Edit: Seems some of my questions were addressed above. Doesn't sound very encouraging =/
 
F

Feep

Banned
GodParticle said:
2 questions:

Will this run cooler than the 1st gen? I tried that one for a bit and it got really hot
Will the base i3 model be enough if I just want it for a photoshop tablet?
Click to expand...
1) Yeah, my unit seems to run cooler.
2) "Just a Photoshop tablet"? Photoshop can be one of the most demanding applications out there. And based on Gabe's i5 model review above, I'd probably say no.
 
G

GodParticle

Member
Feep said:
1) Yeah, my unit seems to run cooler.
2) "Just a Photoshop tablet"? Photoshop can be one of the most demanding applications out there. And based on Gabe's i5 model review above, I'd probably say no.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Yeah, I was playing down the demands of photoshop haha. Maybe I should try to find a V2 if they drop the price
 
M

maeh2k

Member
mangochutney said:
Because design is not just about the thin-ness of a product.

'So-so battery life' can be bad if it is a premium product with a premium price tag. They're basically saying they expect premium battery life, not just run of the mill battery life.

And different reviewers for different products is how you end up with different scores for things that are very similar, like the cameras.
Click to expand...

There's a trade-off between weight/thinness and battery life. You can't expect a thinner, lighter device that also happens to be faster than a Macbook Air and that has a vastly superior screen to have a the same battery life.

Looks like the 11" Macbook Air isn't all that premium, either, with its 'up to 9 hours' battery life. And neither is my 2000 Euro Thinkpad, which gets like 7 hours with a battery that sticks out at the back...
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
They have also removed the “high performance” power option from the Surface Pro 3. It used to be that you could essentially tell the Surface “fuck my battery I want you to kick ass” and that’s no longer an option.
Click to expand...
Say what? What a stupid decision. Thats one of the best things you can do, hey, im on power or as he says fuck my battery life, high performance!
 
B

Bob Dobalina

Member
I think the best solution is some hardware/software method to integrate the windows key into the palm rejection software. Anything less will be a hassle to deal with.
 
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