artsi
Member
Despite the quotes you picked, it's not a bad display by any means.
Basically both SP4 and iPad screens are very good for art / design work.
Microsoft Surface Pro 4 announced: "better in nearly every way" (The Verge)
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Despite the quotes you picked, it's not a bad display by any means.
Basically both SP4 and iPad screens are very good for art / design work.
Forsete
Member
Does anyone else have the surface dock?
Currently testing, but it seems like when the dock is connected my power cover's keyboard stops working periodically. Battery still there and shows in windows, but I have to completely restart just to get the keyboard to work. Its really frustrating. Also doing a shutdown seems to lock up the device when connected to the dock. End up having to hold the power button for 15 seconds. None of this happens when not connected to the dock.
this is tantamount to buying an iPad Air2 and trying to load IOS7 on it and complaining that it doesn't work.
I don't think its reasonable at all to expect that.
I'm going to look for some pen/pencil comparisons later if there are any. Was reading about the pencil having better sensitivity. Not like I'm the art designer here anyway. SP4 already a lock for me because I don't care much for iOS gaming. Plus I still got the iPhone if I must.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
The SP4 is a fantastic comic reader, gorgeous screen. I use Cover for CBR and it works great.
Weren't you also mentioning doing music stuff in iPad Pro thread? I run full DAWs on my SP3 and it handles it like a champ. You should check out a new one called Bigwig which just added a full touch interface if you're running it on a Surface. It's made by ex Ableton Live devs.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I was, yeah. I used a lot of FL, Ableton, Logic, and Reason over the years. I'd love to have something that I can mash around with when relaxing. Thanks for this - I have never heard of this but it looks pretty awesome!
The comic reading is HUGE for me, so thanks for your feedback. I have a huge library of stuff I want to get on whatever device I end up with. I own Comic Zeal and enjoyed that, but I'm always open to other options.
As for the art stuff, how is Sketchbook by Autodesk? That might suit my needs better than something expensive like Photoshop.
Also, one of the things that's actually swaying me towards the SP4 is the ability to simply drag and drop my media over to it. If we are going on a trip and my wife wants to watch a movie or a TV show or whatever, I don't have to bother with converting the files and taking up even more space on my HDD. I can just drag them over and play them.
I see that the SP has a video output slot - does that allow me to plug into an HDMI on my TV and mirror the displays? And someone mentioned Steam mirroring? I've never dealt with that, but it sounds like it could be neat...
You can plug directly into a tv or monitor with a cheap DisplayPort-hdmi cable and mirror or have multiple monitor setup
I do it wirelessly with a Microsoft hdmi dongle
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Cool thanks.
Two additional questions/concerns I have:
I was using the pen and trying to push the palm rejection to the limit. One of the things I was noticing is that palm rejection didn't always work right. Sometimes it would pick up my pinky as I set my palm on the sketch. I also noticed some frustrations surrounding the task bar. When I would go to hit 'undo', the option to close my current program would pop up (like when you mouse over an icon). Not sure if this is a setting or if it's a feature I can tinker with?
When I would use pressure on the pen to vary line weights, I would see that screen warping you see when you press on your TV or computer monitor. Is this damaging the screen? I worry that I'll see long term damage from this.
Got the Shakes
Member
I've had mine setup to use it since I bought it 3 weeks ago and haven't had any issues.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
OK, so I'm sold on this thing. My coworker let me borrow his all day. I loaded some comics on it and they look INSANELY good in portrait. Because he's the admin on it, I haven't been able to install Steam or Virtual Pinball, but I can't imagine I'll be disappointed.
I do have to ask (because I don't know the GPU capabilities of mobile units) - can the SP4 w/i5 and 8 gigs of RAM run XCOM?
Also tried screen mirroring via Roku 3 and it worked great. Not the ideal solution, but I imagine it will work when there are no other options immediately available!
I do have to ask (because I don't know the GPU capabilities of mobile units) - can the SP4 w/i5 and 8 gigs of RAM run XCOM?
Also tried screen mirroring via Roku 3 and it worked great. Not the ideal solution, but I imagine it will work when there are no other options immediately available!
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Here it is running on an SP3, should run even better on the SP4.
Also want to echo trying Mischief for drawing.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Wow - looks like it runs great. Thanks!
And I'll check out Mischief in a bit.
E: I have to ask... Is the i7/8 worth the extra cash over the i5/8? I can't justify the 16 gigs of RAM because of the cost, but the 8 gigs I MAY be able to swing. The website says you need an i7 to do CAD work? Is that true? I'm pretty sure I have an i5 at work and run AutoCAD fine...
Thanks. Strobe light is likely a bit of an overstatement but mine flickers like mad. Assuming you're not blind and I'm not blind, I probably need to get mine checked out or replaced.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Yeah, XCOM runs fine. Also handles Steam home streaming great if you have a good PC rig and a AC-capable wifi router. I was streaming NBA2K this past weekend to my SP4 with no issues.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Results will make up my mind for me. Ready to buy right now, just want to get final results!
I just pushed mine way more firmly than I ever would in real life to see what you mean, but I'm not seeing anything unusual or unexpected.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Took a quick video. This is on the SP3, so I don't know if it would be any different on the 4.
https://goo.gl/photos/YFfiNBP1XjuLCBMt5
So got my Surface Pro 4 in the mail on Monday and I have been playing around with it the past few days. Here's some quick impressions.
+ The hardware is generally great. Really premium feeling.
+ The type cover is excellent. Both the keys and the trackpad feels as good to use as any 12" laptop. Right up there in MacBook territory.
+ Despite what ever review seems to say, I actually find it to be very easy and comfortable to lap. Compared to my last laptop (an 08 13" MacBook White) the lapping experience is actually vastly better.
+ Actually on the whole, with the type cover attached, the device just feels like an ultra light laptop. It's easy to forget it's actually a tablet.
+ So far tablet mode is working well enough to fit my needs. I can browse the web in desktop Chrome comfortably, watch Netflix in bed and Skype with it, which is good enough for now. We'll see how things hold up when I start taking it with me to uni next semester.
+ The pen is excellent. A tiny bit of lag aside, it does everything I need it too. Easily the best digital drawing experience I've ever had (mind you it's only competing with a Wacom Bamboo Fun and Nintendo's touch systems, I don't have a huge wealth of experience with professional drawing tools).
+ Windows hello is just crazy. Works perfectly.
+ I'm still testing the limits but gaming performance might actually be better than expected. I can run DMC4 at 720p 2xMSAA and max settings at a mostly solid 60. Ikaruga runs even better, at native resolution to boot.
- Holy glitches, Batman! The number of bugs and glitches I experienced on the first and second days was ridiculous (that was both before and after installing all the patches and the 1511 update). But thankfully it seems like the glitches are ironing themselves out. The past couple of days have been quite stable comparatively. Today it's practically perfect, I have no idea why. I'll need more time to make a proper assessment on this.
-Whilst the touchpad is great otherwise, I don't like that the bottom right corner is treated as a right click. As far as I can tell this can't be disabled. Scratch that, found the option. Somehow glossed over it before.
- When the fan kicks in, it's loud.
- Anyone hoping to improve the tablet experience by running an Android VM, forget about it. I tried out Andy, but things did not work out as well as I hoped. The performance just isn't there and Windows tablet mode and Android just don't play nicely together. If you want to run Android, you're better off dual booting.
- Dark Souls Prepare to Die Edition is horribly unoptimized. It's unplayable on the SP4 even after using DSfix to neuter the settings. T^T
- For whatever reason, Steam in home streaming is incredibly flaky. Probably due to fact I'm using a wireless network.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied, as long as the glitches don't come back.
+ The hardware is generally great. Really premium feeling.
+ The type cover is excellent. Both the keys and the trackpad feels as good to use as any 12" laptop. Right up there in MacBook territory.
+ Despite what ever review seems to say, I actually find it to be very easy and comfortable to lap. Compared to my last laptop (an 08 13" MacBook White) the lapping experience is actually vastly better.
+ Actually on the whole, with the type cover attached, the device just feels like an ultra light laptop. It's easy to forget it's actually a tablet.
+ So far tablet mode is working well enough to fit my needs. I can browse the web in desktop Chrome comfortably, watch Netflix in bed and Skype with it, which is good enough for now. We'll see how things hold up when I start taking it with me to uni next semester.
+ The pen is excellent. A tiny bit of lag aside, it does everything I need it too. Easily the best digital drawing experience I've ever had (mind you it's only competing with a Wacom Bamboo Fun and Nintendo's touch systems, I don't have a huge wealth of experience with professional drawing tools).
+ Windows hello is just crazy. Works perfectly.
+ I'm still testing the limits but gaming performance might actually be better than expected. I can run DMC4 at 720p 2xMSAA and max settings at a mostly solid 60. Ikaruga runs even better, at native resolution to boot.
- Holy glitches, Batman! The number of bugs and glitches I experienced on the first and second days was ridiculous (that was both before and after installing all the patches and the 1511 update). But thankfully it seems like the glitches are ironing themselves out. The past couple of days have been quite stable comparatively. Today it's practically perfect, I have no idea why. I'll need more time to make a proper assessment on this.
-
- When the fan kicks in, it's loud.
- Anyone hoping to improve the tablet experience by running an Android VM, forget about it. I tried out Andy, but things did not work out as well as I hoped. The performance just isn't there and Windows tablet mode and Android just don't play nicely together. If you want to run Android, you're better off dual booting.
- Dark Souls Prepare to Die Edition is horribly unoptimized. It's unplayable on the SP4 even after using DSfix to neuter the settings. T^T
- For whatever reason, Steam in home streaming is incredibly flaky. Probably due to fact I'm using a wireless network.
Overall I'm pretty satisfied, as long as the glitches don't come back.
The big difference between the i7 and the i5 is the graphics performance. CPU wise they're both dual core and hyperthreaded. The i7 runs at a marginally higher clock rate and has a little bit more L3 cache but really they're much the same. It's the GPU that makes the difference for CAD applications. The i7 GPU will slaughter the i5 GPU. It has double the execution units and 64MB of eDRAM (The i5 gpu has no dedicated memory).
You're work i5 has no issue with AutoCAD because it's likely paired to a dedicated GPU (also not to mention that a desktop and a notebook class i5 mean two different things).
Edit: Oops double posted, was suppose to append that to my previous post. Oh well, too late.
Which software are you using?
I haven't ran into problems with lag, and I'm used to Wacom's intuos tablets. I do find that software such as Clip Studio and Sai helps a lot, however.
(that said, my first couple of days were pretty bumpy. I had to manually request a billion microsoft updates before things started to calm down a bit).
A great opportunity to draw a spunking cock missed, imo.
Clip Studio Paint and One note. One note is pretty close to lagless but in CSP there is a tiny but still noticeable delay. Nothing major, and I'm sure it's industry leading, but still worth mentioning. It's the one thing holding the pen back from what I would consider perfect performance.
artsi
Member
The SP4 was released here today, while I'm waiting for Apple Pencil to come into stock (maybe in January..) I decided after all to get the SP4 for proper home testing it deserves, don't know if the store model had all the updates, etc.
iPad is maybe better in raw drawing performance, but if I can get used to the SP4 pen it can do so much more.
iPad is maybe better in raw drawing performance, but if I can get used to the SP4 pen it can do so much more.
Sorry if this has been asked, but does anyone know if updates have improved the pen performance since launch?
I tried the SP4 and iPad Pro back to back, and I felt like the iPad just blew it away. Much lighter activation pressure and the SP4 I tried had a bunch of weird bugs like trailing lines after lifting the pen, plus things like random dots and lines appearing in the middle of my writing. I had the SP3 for a few weeks even and I was fine with that so I dunno why it felt so bad this time around.
I'd never actually consider an iPad because I want a actual Windows computer with USB etc, but damn. Almost makes me want to wait for the SP5 next year.
I'm asking because I checked with winver and they were all running the RTM build and not TH2, so I assumed they hadn't been updated at all.
I tried the SP4 and iPad Pro back to back, and I felt like the iPad just blew it away. Much lighter activation pressure and the SP4 I tried had a bunch of weird bugs like trailing lines after lifting the pen, plus things like random dots and lines appearing in the middle of my writing. I had the SP3 for a few weeks even and I was fine with that so I dunno why it felt so bad this time around.
I'd never actually consider an iPad because I want a actual Windows computer with USB etc, but damn. Almost makes me want to wait for the SP5 next year.
I'm asking because I checked with winver and they were all running the RTM build and not TH2, so I assumed they hadn't been updated at all.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Hindsight my friend...
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't fully understand mobile GPU and processors as well as I do desktop. I guess an i7 is probably a better choice if I intend to use this for any sort of real power hungry applications. I don't think I can justify 16 gigs of RAM though (not for the cost).
Having said that, I can do an i7/16/256 for $1619 with an education discount (yay for friends still in school). Just have to wait a few weeks...
Yeah I had to turn this off was incredibly annoying.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Another one? Is there a list of changes?
I've yet to try out the iPad Pro, so I can't really compare, but it's worth pointing out that the Surface Pen has an adjustable sensitivity curve. Try playing around with that the next time you demo it and see if it helps.
Personally I actually turned the sensitivity down a little, since I have a naturally heavy hand. Have no issues getting the pen to respond to my "lightest" touch.
Edit: This setting is the surface app for some reason, rather than the main settings. Had a play around with it myself using CSP. Actually, somewhat counter intuitively, I think turning the sensitivity down will help more than turning it up, even if you do have a light hand. It doesn't really affect activation pressure at all (I thought there may have been a bit of a software buffer it could get over on thin lines but I guess not) but turning down the sensitivity will give you more control with the pressure needed to activate it. I find I subconsciously use more pressure with lower sensitivity to the point were I really have to force myself to create a discontinuity, whilst at higher sensitivity I easily slip bellow the threshold chasing thinner lines.
Anyway, like I said, have a play around with it yourself and see if it helps at all.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I called my local MS Store. The lady on the phone had zero information on the i7 models. Best Buy has nothing either. Guess I'll just hang tight for a bit!
E: I think I'm just going to do the i5/8 for now and exchange it at Best Buy for the i7/16 once that's available. A+ idea!
E: I think I'm just going to do the i5/8 for now and exchange it at Best Buy for the i7/16 once that's available. A+ idea!
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
How beefy is your PC that you're streaming from, and how fast is your wireless network? I had a few hiccups when I was using Steam in home streaming (largely related to if something on the host machine isn't behaving properly), but for the most part it worked great, even on the more twitch sensitive games like NBA2K or Xenoverse. My host rig is a i7 2700k OC'd to 4.4 Ghz with a Nvidia 970, and my router is AC capable, haven't tried on a wifi N setup to compare.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
So what is the OFFICIAL i7 release date? I'm probably picking up an i5 tomorrow in the interim.
People ar having it shipped to them right now. It can't be too far out. I'd wait.
Try Amazon. I'm reading on Reddit they have stock.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3tib8d/amazon_has_sp4_i7_models_in_stock/
My system has an i7 3770k (stock) and a GTX670 but over a cheap wireless n router. Wireless n bandwidth seems ok but my sessions keep dropping out after a few minutes. I really have no idea what's causing the issue.
In a few months time, when I have more money, I might give an ac upgrade a shot.
Got the Shakes
Member
I have found that it works fine on AC, but you still need a pretty strong signal to stream without issues. I have an AC router, and streaming was fine in about 75% of my house. The other 25% I could basically get a game to start streaming but then it would get all sorts of laggy and glitchy. I went out and bought an AC extender for the area of my house it didn't work in and now things are fine everywhere.
Played with the pro and book today at best buy and both kept showing a display driver crashed and recovered messages. I was just scrolling through a webpage, then it would get choppy and the screen would refresh with the error. Is this a windows 10 thing in general with Intel drivers? Was surprised both surfaces had the error... I assume multiple windows laptops do?
All the Skylake generation machines are having the same problems, not just Surfaces. Intel really screwed up the drivers. Fixes are incoming though. At least the worst thing that happens is the screen flashes and the display driver restarts. :-\
I'm glad to hear the Apple Pencil is really good! I think the iPad Pro with Procreate will probably be one of the nicest things to work with, especially as even the best drawing software for Windows is still very hotkey and window-centric. It's good for everyone if the iPad Pro is really good for artwork, and I hope more drawing apps come soon enough.
At lunchtime yesterday I was using my surface pro 4 for drawing.
I set it to shut down, and put it in my bag.
When I got home 5 hours later, the surface was warm to the touch and wouldn't boot up. After a minute of two or non-responsive slab, I held the power switch for 12+ seconds, causing the Surface logo to appear, but then it would die immediately due to lack of battery. It appears to be working now, but WTF at the power/sleep/off modes on this hardware. I had to charge it for a good while before it would activate again.
At lunchtime yesterday I was using my surface pro 4 for drawing.
I set it to shut down, and put it in my bag.
When I got home 5 hours later, the surface was warm to the touch and wouldn't boot up. After a minute of two or non-responsive slab, I held the power switch for 12+ seconds, causing the Surface logo to appear, but then it would die immediately due to lack of battery. It appears to be working now, but WTF at the power/sleep/off modes on this hardware. I had to charge it for a good while before it would activate again.
The surface pen lacks the tilt sensor, so you can't tilt to shade but you can just switch your tool to achieve much the same effect. It's less convinient but ultimately works the same. What the surface pen does have, which the apple pen doesn't, is an eraser on the opposite end, which is really the same thing functionally but linked to a different tool. So really it comes between quick access shading vs quick access eraser. Between the two I preffer the eraser (shading isn't really my thing but an eraser is always handy). Of course that's just me (and I'm not really much an artist).
This test goes in contradiction with the color accuracy test from Lesnumeriques: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/tablet...pple-toujours-aussi-bon-sur-ecran-n47125.html
Basically they say the iPad Pro has the most accurate screen ever released in terms of colorimetry.
Thanks! Yeah I'm not an artist either. So I shouldn't even be concerned with it. I just thought it was cool.
I agree. Between the 2 of them, I'll probably be using the eraser a whole lot more often.
Unless they both tested the exact same units, that's not actually a contradiction at all. Rather it just goes to show you can't make definitive statements based off a sample of one.
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