Microsoft Surface Pro 4 announced: "better in nearly every way" (The Verge)

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I wish there was a small bar of keys you could dock nicely to the USB port on the right side, it would be perfect.

Something like this but nicer, and no wires.

I3w33mD.jpg
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artsi said:
I wish there was a small bar of keys you could dock nicely to the USB port on the right side, it would be perfect.

Something like this but nicer, and no wires.
Click to expand...
Yes! I want this really badly.
I know a few artists that chose the Cintiq Companion 2 over the SP4 just because they want those physical hotkeys, and they're quite right.

Would you mind sharing your touch key settings?
 
artsi said:
I got the SP4 (i5 / 128GB) last week because you couldn't get the Apple Pencil from anywhere. I'm planning to use it for a few weeks and then decide if I'll keep it or get the iPad Pro + Pencil.
I haven't done any extensive work yet, most of my time has went to configuring the thing to suit my workflow. I'm planning to post more impressions later.

After 5 days, I think SP4 (for art) is pretty good. There are pros and cons. Hardware is pretty amazing and W10 enables so many possibilities. Firmware / OS has bugs, but I'm not concerned about those, they will be ironed out sooner or later.

The pen isn't as good as my Wacom or the iPad Pro I tried, it's not nearly as sensitive (initial activation force) which makes it feel a bit janky and then there's the famous jitter problem. But I draw fast lines so the jitter does not concern me personally, and I'm getting used to the pressure issue. I just don't have as much line control as on my Intuos.

Then there's the software side. I've tried maybe a dozen different applications and sadly none of them come close to Procreate in UI touch experience AND functionality / line quality. One of those has always lacked.
And if I whip out a BT keyboard to the side so I can use all my Photoshop / Painter hotkeys, it's not that ultramobile sketchbook anymore.

But if you're a technical person and don't mind the configuration hell, you can get around that problem. You got options like the touchscreen hotkeys (or that BT keyboard, if it's okay for you).

You can also use autohotkey to remap the eraser button of the SP4 pen. Frankly, the other "button" is a useless piece of crap, it's just disgusting to press, very stiff and low profile.
But you can add 3 functions to the eraser button (one press, press twice and hold), it's nice.

Or you can get creative and attach some cool, very small bluetooth gadget with just a few buttons to handle your usual hotkeys.

I have the type cover for SP4, but I think it's useless for drawing because of the ergonomics. If you could use it separately via BT on the side, it would be better. But it's a nice cover and keyboard when you do a lot of typing.

Here's my Photoshop workspace, and a very quick doodle I did just now.
I'm using this Japanese software called TouchKey which looks crappy compared to something software like Procreate has, but it's functional and reliable. Like Japanese cars. You can see the toolbar I built on the left.



I tried also other similiar programs but they didn't feel as reliable to me. With this I can create toolbars for every app I use, they load automatically when I switch programs, and they are solid.

Overall, right now I'm pretty happy with my SP4. It has some things it could do better, and there's a lot of things the app developers (Adobe, Corel) could do better to support the W10 tablet experience.
But because it's Windows I could hack my way through most problems I've had, thanks to limitless customization options via 3rd party software.
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It seems that iPad pro vs SP4 is starting to become Procreate Vs SP4 - that app seems so well suited to the pencil. But I thought other apps were a little less responsive?


Edit: I think Adobe is more likely to update their iPad pro support than make their win10 apps more touch friendly - they've had a few years to do something on the Windows side and just haven't really.

There is a risk though that developers may see low volumes of iPad pro and not invest in it. It'll be interesting to see which can evolve more
 
The tip on my surface pen got loose, now it doesn't really write well. Expected it to last longer than this. Wish they weren't so expensive to replace.
 
mrklaw said:
It seems that iPad pro vs SP4 is starting to become Procreate Vs SP4 - that app seems so well suited to the pencil. But I thought other apps were a little less responsive?


Edit: I think Adobe is more likely to update their iPad pro support than make their win10 apps more touch friendly - they've had a few years to do something on the Windows side and just haven't really.

There is a risk though that developers may see low volumes of iPad pro and not invest in it. It'll be interesting to see which can evolve more
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Not exactly true. They've added a touch based interface for Illustrator.

They added UI scaling for Photoshop as well for high DPI screens like the Surface. I'm hoping they add a touch friendly interface to PS soon.
 
Is there any way to be able to bring up the on-screen keyboard with a finger tap (in an input field) while the touchpad is connected? It works with the pen, but not fingers.
 
So I got my SP4 today. And I love it. This is my first Surface device, keep in mind.

Love the hardware, there is a little coil whine but you only hear it when you put your ear up to the exhaust, so I will forgive that. The screen is fantastic! Though I have a little bit of backlight bleed at the bottom, but it seems standard for this device so I am not that annoyed by it.

The pen works great, and I find that generally touch works good in Windows 10. Tablet mode is a little bit confusing at first since I have never used it.

WiFi seems snappy on my old 802.11n router, I am looking to upgrade to a Asus AC router soon.

The keyboard is a little bit wobbly, but I can get used to it. Nice trackpad though. But the left shift key is way too small, I keep pressing < by mistake.

Finally I have a full windows machine in a tablet. :)

Now, do I install full blown office that I got for free on the surface or on my stationary pc? I prefer typing on my main PC, but the question is if having the full blown one note program on the surface has any benefits vs the free one? I will give it a few days before I make my decision.
 
I've been trying to put out some actual work from my iPad Air 2. Which I adore for net surfing and the like, but this... this is not being enjoyable at all.

I don't know when I'll get my SP4 (here's hoping I can bill it as a work expense) but that thing can't come soon enough.
 
I painted another a bit more complete picture today with SP4 + Photoshop from start to finish.
I'm starting to find my SP4 workflow when I got my screen hotkeys all setup. I can do most of the work in full screen mode which is fantastic.

I got a ton of hotkeys in the toolbar, but they do everything I need while painting and take minimal screen space. It's neat. I'm really starting to like the tablet now.

Edcdumz.jpg
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And the finished pic: http://i.imgur.com/CwrSaPs.jpg

dock said:
Yes! I want this really badly.
I know a few artists that chose the Cintiq Companion 2 over the SP4 just because they want those physical hotkeys, and they're quite right.

Would you mind sharing your touch key settings?
Click to expand...

Yeah sure, here's my latest TouchKey macro (seen above) that loads when I launch Photoshop, it's not 100% default PS shortcuts so you will need to modify them a bit.

http://pastebin.com/uSa0Mad6
 
JCX said:
The tip on my surface pen got loose, now it doesn't really write well. Expected it to last longer than this. Wish they weren't so expensive to replace.
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I know that feel, the plastic rim near the tip broke for me and everytime I press down to draw etc. it's off by a few pixels to the right, I ordered the tip kit hopefully this would get me back to what I love to do.
 
Divvy said:
Have they still said anything about the sleep of death yet? I'm still getting that issue
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I had that issue too for a day but then it just went away by itself and I'm not really sure why. The only thing I can think of was that night I shut down the tablet and left it off all night. The next morning the issue was gone.

So maybe try that. Shut it down and leave it off for a few minutes to let any residual charge dissipate before turning it back on. If it doesn't work, I got nothing.
 
Divvy said:
Have they still said anything about the sleep of death yet? I'm still getting that issue
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I still get it from time to time. It definitely seems like a graphics driver issue -- keyboard comes on, PC doesn't. I tried turning the brightness all the way up, and after reset the brightness was turned up -- it's definitely registering input and all. Since I have Teamviewer installed on this thing the solution may be as simple as logging on elsewhere (or on my phone) and remoting into the PC to change display settings. Going to give that a try next time I run into it.
 
aaaaa0 said:
Intel. Anything with a Skylake in it.
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Fascinating. It's really quite surprising that there are so many little issues with these devices. Given that they are on the 5th generation of Surface products (RT counts, right?), you would think things would be smooth at this point.

I'm currently using mine primarily as a super overpriced comic reader (full page high res comics on this thing are almost as amazing as actual books) and my new sketchbook. The display driver crashed twice on me tonight and the device has moments of no response, but I'm still loving it. I'm going to continue testing it out to see if it's a keeper or not - I need to try typing on the couch with it still.
 
Went to my local PC World/Currys to have a look at a fridge/freezer but left with a Surface Pro 4 & Keyboard that will will replace my 1st Gen Surface Pro. Haha

So far its a huge upgrade from my Surface Pro which I love!!
 
I'm so torn, I really like SP4...buuuut, it's been a few weeks now and the little quirks are getting to me, in addition to a less than stellar battery life. This might not be the machine that replaces my MacBook Pro yet, sadly. Grr, I'm so torn on what to do.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Fascinating. It's really quite surprising that there are so many little issues with these devices. Given that they are on the 5th generation of Surface products (RT counts, right?), you would think things would be smooth at this point.
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In this case the problem is mostly Intel.

I think Intel rushed Skylake a bit, and the result was half baked drivers.

Dell XPS 13/15 with the Skylake refresh are also seeing the same problems, and note that Apple hasn't shipped their Skylake refresh yet. There's probably a good reason for that.
 
NinjaMouse said:
I'm so torn, I really like SP4...buuuut, it's been a few weeks now and the little quirks are getting to me, in addition to a less than stellar battery life. This might not be the machine that replaces my MacBook Pro yet, sadly. Grr, I'm so torn on what to do.
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Yeah I feel a bit silly for my assumptions that this would be a mature product, since it seemed to be an incremental device. I bought it with work funds and was making sure it was all good before I picked up another for someone I'm training. Oops..
 
NinjaMouse said:
I'm so torn, I really like SP4...buuuut, it's been a few weeks now and the little quirks are getting to me, in addition to a less than stellar battery life. This might not be the machine that replaces my MacBook Pro yet, sadly. Grr, I'm so torn on what to do.
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Always wonder why Microsoft doesn't even attempt to sell or support external batteries. They did with the pro 2 with the power cover, but not anymore. You can by an external battery that you can buy a special cord for, but it's not ideal. And 3rd parties either can't or simply won't create accessories that can attach to that keyboard connection port.
 
Weevilone said:
Yeah I feel a bit silly for my assumptions that this would be a mature product, since it seemed to be an incremental device. I bought it with work funds and was making sure it was all good before I picked up another for someone I'm training. Oops..
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I don't think it's silly at all, as it's the 4th gen of the product. Maybe a Surface Book would be better for me? My MacBook Pro is only a year or so old and I was really looking to break the Apple stranglehold on my house.

Future said:
Always wonder why Microsoft doesn't even attempt to sell or support external batteries. They did with the pro 2 with the power cover, but not anymore. You can by an external battery that you can buy a special cord for, but it's not ideal. And 3rd parties either can't or simply won't create accessories that can attach to that keyboard connection port.
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My thought is that I shouldn't have to chase external sources, but I expected the battery to be in the ballpark of my MBP, especially in sleep mode (with wifi in sleep off), but even on my commute to work, it burns 15% of the battery in under 2 hours, with the cover closed and no use. I just don't get it.
 
NinjaMouse said:
I don't think it's silly at all, as it's the 4th gen of the product. Maybe a Surface Book would be better for me? My MacBook Pro is only a year or so old and I was really looking to break the Apple stranglehold on my house.
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The SB hardware is fantastic, absolutely top tier. But it's just as buggy as the SP4 right now. Hoping that it'll only take a few more weeks to iron out the kinks, but until then I would exercise caution. It's a real love/hate relationship right now with early firmware.
 
aaaaa0 said:
Oh really? :o I haven't tried mine with the new type cover yet, I just assumed it would work.

Guess I'll try it tonight to confirm.
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Confirmed. :(

The Wireless Adapter doesn't work with the Surface Pro 4 Type Cover. Though it works fine with all the earlier generation covers I could test with.
 
Yeah sure, here's my latest TouchKey macro (seen above) that loads when I launch Photoshop, it's not 100% default PS shortcuts so you will need to modify them a bit.
http://pastebin.com/uSa0Mad6
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'll play with this a bit.
I'm using Photoshop CS1 to avoid issues with UI scaling, so I'll probably need to mess with them anyway. I assume you're on Photoshop CC 2015?
Your work is really wonderful :3

Clip Studio has a really nice toolbar that I can customise quite extensively, so I've been trying to get used to sketching on this without the keyboard. It's a pretty nice setup. Paint Tool Sai, however, still feels clumsy unless I use the keyboard.
 
I started my SP4 this morning and the pen was unresponsive. It didn't do anything.
I was afraid it got broken, but it was the battery after all.

They said it'll last "a year" and this one has been in use for 6 days.

If I have to replace the battery every week or two with heavy use, I'll say that Apple went absolutely the right way with their rechargeable solution (assuming they just can't use EMR because of Wacom's patent).

Well, time to go find a huge pack of AAAA batteries.

dock said:
Thanks! I'll play with this a bit.
I'm using Photoshop CS1 to avoid issues with UI scaling, so I'll probably need to mess with them anyway. I assume you're on Photoshop CC 2015?
Your work is really wonderful :3

Clip Studio has a really nice toolbar that I can customise quite extensively, so I've been trying to get used to sketching on this without the keyboard. It's a pretty nice setup. Paint Tool Sai, however, still feels clumsy unless I use the keyboard.
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm using CC 2015. Thanks!
I've tried Clip Studio myself from time to time and it has a nice brush engine, but for some reason I just go back to Photoshop, I guess can't get away from it after spending 12+ years with it. Same with Painter, it has really nice brushes and I'd like to use it but it feels somehow awkward.
 
Question for my in the know Gaf'ers...Which surface pro is the best bang for your buck currently of any generation? I really want something good for note taking (journaling, tracking, etc) and productivity in general. Ideally I'm looking for the best budget option and writing capability. Gen 1-3 perhaps? Not sure where gen 4 sits price wise in relation.

I did read that Dell has a solid budget offering that might fit the bill but not sure what model, etc. I have an older asus win 8 tablet (wacom) but its been feeling to small.

Much love and appreciation for the help.
 
spock said:
Question for my in the know Gaf'ers...Which surface pro is the best bang for your buck currently of any generation? I really want something good for note taking (journaling, tracking, etc) and productivity in general. Ideally I'm looking for the best budget option and writing capability. Gen 1-3 perhaps? Not sure where gen 4 sits price wise in relation.
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It sounds like you might be a candidate for the m3 SP4.
The biggest sting is the extra £110 for the keyboard.
 
artsi said:
I started my SP4 this morning and the pen was unresponsive. It didn't do anything.
I was afraid it got broken, but it was the battery after all.

They said it'll last "a year" and this one has been in use for 6 days.

If I have to replace the battery every week or two with heavy use, I'll say that Apple went absolutely the right way with their rechargeable solution (assuming they just can't use EMR because of Wacom's patent).

Well, time to go find a huge pack of AAAA batteries.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right at all. I still haven't had to change the battery on my SP3 pen and I've had it since launch.
 
artsi said:
I started my SP4 this morning and the pen was unresponsive. It didn't do anything.
I was afraid it got broken, but it was the battery after all.

They said it'll last "a year" and this one has been in use for 6 days.
Click to expand...
It's likely that you just got a defective battery. I'd be surprised if your replacement batteries don't last much longer.
 
dock said:
It sounds like you might be a candidate for the m3 SP4.
The biggest sting is the extra £110 for the keyboard.
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I do wish MS had shipped it with the keyboard as standard. It's not a good enough tablet to not need a keyboard so the pricing is misleading. And they don't even sell a normal cover for it.

How about a HP spectre x2? £799 and a similar spec to the surface pro 4 (core m3/4GB/256GB SSD, stylus), but includes the detachable keyboard. Not as good a price as the US get though ($799 for the base model)
 
dock said:
It's likely that you just got a defective battery. I'd be surprised if your replacement batteries don't last much longer.
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Hopefully so, I just seached 4 stores for AAAA batteries and bought a ton when I finally found them. At least they're pretty cheap.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Grr...Full hard lock this morning. Had to hold the power button for 10 seconds to power down the unit.
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I've been getting hard locks on mine (i5/256/8GB) for the past few days while just browsing. Nothing is responsive though I can change the brightness on the backlit keys. It's getting to the point that if I need to do any internet browsing I just grab my iPad.

I have 2 more days to return it for a full refund and may just do so and then rebuy one in a few months since I absolutely love the hardware.
 
who uses a surface pro as an only computer, and who uses it as a companion to another computer in your house? I tend to flip flop between the portability of a laptop and the power of a desktop, and I'm in the desktop phase at the moment, with a gtx970 setup for a bit of gaming.

i'd love to keep the desktop and have a SP alongside it, but I'm having trouble getting my wife to understand why :D

so now I'm wondering if I could just use the SP on its own with a dock to connect to my monitor etc. that would have the benefit of only one Lightroom database to deal with, but would mean no gaming. tbh I tend to play mainly on console. but VR is coming soon.

I'm rambling now :p
 
scottXplosion said:
I've been getting hard locks on mine (i5/256/8GB) for the past few days while just browsing. Nothing is responsive though I can change the brightness on the backlit keys. It's getting to the point that if I need to do any internet browsing I just grab my iPad.

I have 2 more days to return it for a full refund and may just do so and then rebuy one in a few months since I absolutely love the hardware.
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Just got my first "wake from sleep" lock. No response from the screen. Had to hold the power button to hard reset.

I love the IDEA of this device, but holy shit I'm already considering returning it. For $1500 (tax + type cover), I feel like I should have a really solid device. However, after a few days of actual use, I've had a total of 3 freeze/hard locks and one sleep lock.
 
nicoga3000 said:
Just got my first "wake from sleep" lock. No response from the screen. Had to hold the power button to hard reset.

I love the IDEA of this device, but holy shit I'm already considering returning it. For $1500 (tax + type cover), I feel like I should have a really solid device. However, after a few days of actual use, I've had a total of 3 freeze/hard locks and one sleep lock.
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It's disappointing. There were some minor issues with the SP3 when it was released but nothing like this. Windows 10 still has a ways to go before it's as good on a tablet as 8.1 was.

I think it's a combination of Windows 10 and Skylake issues.

The good news is MS has been good at updating and fixing things as time goes on and it all seems to be software related.

I still love the device overall and it's a good step up from SP3 but I really hope some of these issues get resolved soon.
 
StudioTan said:
It's disappointing. There were some minor issues with the SP3 when it was released but nothing like this. Windows 10 still has a ways to go before it's as good on a tablet as 8.1 was.

I think it's a combination of Windows 10 and Skylake issues.

The good news is MS has been good at updating and fixing things as time goes on and it all seems to be software related.

I still love the device overall and it's a good step up from SP3 but I really hope some of these issues get resolved soon.
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Since I have until 1/15/2016, I may stick it out and see if MS updates and fixes shit. If not, I'll return it and get on the train later.

Does the Surface Book have these same issues?
 
All these issues with the SP4, I may lean to the SP3 on Friday if the prices are right for some discounts on Canadian Black Friday.
 
So I want to get this for my girlfriend for Christmas. She likes to draw and wants to make the leap into digital artwork and graphic design. In reading the last few pages in this thread...is the SP4 super bugged out? Should I hold off on getting this for Black Friday or maybe get something else altogether?
 
egruntz said:
So I want to get this for my girlfriend for Christmas. She likes to draw and wants to make the leap into digital artwork and graphic design. In reading the last few pages in this thread...is the SP4 super bugged out? Should I hold off on getting this for Black Friday or maybe get something else altogether?
Click to expand...

it's not super bonged out. It's great. I'm not denying people have issues but it seems a little overblown to me.

only thing I've encountered is when you put the SP4 to sleep it loses battery at about 10% per hour. You can rectify this by putting it into hibernate instead of sleep. Only difference is it takes about 5 seconds to wake up from hibernate as opposed to basically instant on with sleep. And even then, someone above said this issue went away for them recently. I'm just going to keep using hibernate though because it works fine for me.
 
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