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[*Splinter]

wait when did this happen?

Paraphrasing

and here i thought we could count on each other to form best townie synergy the way we did in archer. it's almost as if you've forgotten how i play ....... :< you're the ONLY ONE in this player list who should know me better than the rest of them, cabochon!

my heart

it breks

</3

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

wait when did this happen?

seru idonno but i think he was referring to this post where i was disappointed at cabot ....

and here i thought we could count on each other to form best townie synergy the way we did in archer. it's almost as if you've forgotten how i play ....... :< you're the ONLY ONE in this player list who should know me better than the rest of them, cabochon!

which was actually something that i put in because splinter said no one had played with me before:

I think Sophia's case against Ynnny is weaker than her case against SkyOdin*. I know she hasnt played with Ynnny before (noone has), but I think she knows her well enough to expect some fluffy comments within her posts.

I'm in Ireland so the start/end times are at 10pm. I was sleeping and stuff! For future reference I'm more likely to be around at the start and end of the phase.

oh ok! i didnt know you were in ireland... i will keep in mind about this from now on.

thank you for response, catvoca~ but im not quite dissuaded yet.... seems to me that you've been mostly content on being only barely visible so far. let me sit on you a bit more as i go back to reread again~

 

[*Splinter]

idk splinter. this is how i speak in game :> "erratic" is a good descriptor, i guess



<3

I'm not sure I buy this as an excuse. I think I'm ok with your posting style, your responses to me have been fine enough, but the others definitely seem like overreactions. Especially reaching into pre-game/Discord to discredit cabot when he clearly had nothing.

 

[cabot]

My current lynch list is:

Terra - Can't read Terra, but he's not seemed particularly helpful to me at this point in time. Hoping he answers my question and offers some thoughts.
Yeeny - I've covered my thoughts.
catvoca - has only discussed the peeking, I'd like some thoughts on other players and interactions that have happened today.
SkyOdin - I'm not really sure, theres some questioning which reads as inexperienced (could be town or scum) but also the way he just sat a vote on me seemed weird. It just felt like picking an easy target, in a game of non-majority rule where placing your vote down isn't as powerful as the other games we've played here. I don't see much useful content either yet.

I haven't looked over Hyper's posts yet, because I tried this morning and it wasn't digesting. L_P I'm unsure of, but he's sort of a blind spot much like Terra. He hasn't raised any scum alarm bells yet, he's playing as he usually does.

It's difficult to lynch him for that on day 1 right now.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I'm not sure I buy this as an excuse. I think I'm ok with your posting style, your responses to me have been fine enough, but the others definitely seem like overreactions. Especially reaching into pre-game/Discord to discredit cabot when he clearly had nothing.

im a hyperenergetic spider. take my reactions as you will but he really surprised* me when he was all reading into my responses as if i wasn't just trying to keep up with the joke that he started with me in discord

*and not in a good way

if it had seemed like an overreactions, it was because it might be was.... cuz seems like i cant read where his jokes end and his in-game strats begins so ...i'll just quietly makes notes not to play along with cabochon anymore in discord to avoid this tripping over things in the future.





ok dinner now

 

[*Splinter]

It just felt like picking an easy target, in a game of non-majority rule where placing your vote down isn't as powerful as the other games we've played here.

Huh? This game has standard voting rules doesn't it?

 

[cabot]

Huh? This game has standard voting rules doesn't it?

No, no matter how many votes are on a person, it ends at deadline.

No majority.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Paraphrasing

ah, yeah, that makes more sense.
sorry, i tend to take quotation marks literally.


As for Yiny
her behavior here makes sense to me, certainly not earning her any townie points, but i dont see anything necessarily scummy in it.

 

[Catvoca]

I find it interesting that multiple posters have brought up people only discussing mechanics as something suspicious (I agree), but no ones brought up Ty4on. As far as I can tell every post he's made has been about peeking or role distribution and stuff like that, and he's so under the radar people aren't even mentioning he's under the radar.

Vote: Ty4on

Any thoughts on players or recent happenings? Any reads?

Also, I can't make heads or tails of what Yeeny and Cabot were arguing about last page.

 

[cabot]

ah, yeah, that makes more sense.
sorry, i tend to take quotation marks literally.


As for Yiny
her behavior here makes sense to me, certainly not earning her any townie points, but i dont see anything necessarily scummy in it.

So you've said a thing Kawl said bugs you, but not enough to lynch.

You don't see scum in Yeeny.

Who would you lynch today?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Also, I can't make heads or tails of what Yeeny and Cabot were arguing about last page.

tldr goes something like:

1- Yiny took Cabots vote on her to be a joke
2- Cobat thinks yin not questioning it is scummy, pressures yin.
3- yin acts characteristically erratically/ flustered
4- Caboot see this as further scummy behavior
5- repeat step 3&4 about 3 times

 

[cabot]

tldr goes something like:

1- Yiny took Cabots vote on her to be a joke
2- Cobat thinks yin not questioning it is scummy, pressures yin.
3- yin acts characteristically erratically/ flustered
4- Caboot see this as further scummy behavior
5- repeat step 3&4 about 3 times

I definitely don't remember five people being involved in the exchange.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

So you've said a thing Kawl said bugs you, but not enough to lynch.

You don't see scum in Yeeny.

Who would you lynch today?

not much has happened yet to really make me think any particular player should be lynched.
right now point im probably leaning toward Lone or Terra.

i should be here for the days end (which i think might be a first for me) so hopefully ill have a more confident target then.

I definitely don't remember five people being involved in the exchange.

aw, you didnt see Caboot and Cobat? ill make sure to introduce you to them next time they are around. You all have a lot in common, i bet you would hit it right off.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

actually i think ill put my money where my mouth is, in case i dont actually get to check in
day end is 9am for me, so the odds of me being up early enough to participate are... iffy

VOTE: Terrabyte20xx

Makada noise's with your speaker hole!

 

[Kawl_USC]

well, while we are grasping at straws.



this bugged me,
though i cant decide if its the guilttriping people into going with his plan, or just setting up an easy opportunity to accuse someone of being scum.

Yea I won't beat around the bush with it. I think peeking is the optimal strategy and I'm pushing for it. If that involves guilt tripping so be it. And someone disagreeing with it will have a slight scum lean unless they put forth a convincing argument for why that isn't the case.

(Not to say going along with it earns you any town cred however. Like I said earlier i plan to be tight fisted with that this game)

Just got into work let me peruse the last couple of pages and decide a new place to sling my vote around. Now that Cabot has chimed in with stereotypical activity it would be hypocritical for me to keep my vote there sans any particular scum bells a ringing.

Unvote

 

[Kawl_USC]

Sure, Kawl has said a few things which bug me, but I ask you the question I asked Terra, would you lynch him today for it (or anything else)?

I'd hope that something or another has bugged most people a little bit.

Friction of ideas is an integral part mafia

Spoiler

(not ideas, not people)

if everyone just blindly happily accepted everyone's every idea we'd hardly have a game here.

I'm trying to post enough and take enough hard stances to give people something to push against partly.

 

[Kawl_USC]

I find it interesting that multiple posters have brought up people only discussing mechanics as something suspicious (I agree), but no ones brought up Ty4on. As far as I can tell every post he's made has been about peeking or role distribution and stuff like that, and he's so under the radar people aren't even mentioning he's under the radar.

Vote: Ty4on

Any thoughts on players or recent happenings? Any reads?

Also, I can't make heads or tails of what Yeeny and Cabot were arguing about last page.

I wouldn't call Ty under the radar, which is probably why people aren't calling him under the radar. He for the most part participated in that discussion as it was the main topic at the time he was active. Had he shown back up and only discussed that I think your argument would be holding more merit.

I think for now
Vote: Catvoca
Will do.

Find you calling others out as under the radar a tad amusing.

 

[Catvoca]

I wouldn't call Ty under the radar, which is probably why people aren't calling him under the radar. He for the most part participated in that discussion as it was the main topic at the time he was active. Had he shown back up and only discussed that I think your argument would be holding more merit.

I think for now
Vote: Catvoca
Will do.

Find you calling others out as under the radar a tad amusing.

Well that's why I was saying he was so under the radar that no ones even posting about him. Like if you take me, I'm not really under the radar since I posted so little that it stood out to people, whereas Ty4on has been posting enough that's he's blended in, but he's only really been engaging in discussion of mechanics and never talking about any players or anything. If he'd only posted at the start of the phase I'd get this but he posted a few hours ago and it was just about role distribution, not about anything that's been going on between the players. So by voting for him I'm hoping he'll chime in with some thoughts.

 

[batsnacks]

DAY 1 VOTES:

hyperactivity (0)
kristoffer 23 (46)

cabot (3)
kawl_usc 24
lone_prodigy 31 (31)
*splinter 37 (51)
kristoffer 46
skyodin 206

yesnononoyes (2)
cabot 27 (217)
sophia 196
*splinter 241

kristoffer (0)
ty4on 29 (149)

kawl_usc (1)
lone_prodigy 31 (103)
*splinter 51 (241)
terrabyte20xx 77

ty4on (1)
skyodin 39 (206)
catvoca 259

stanleypalmtree (0)
yesnononoyes 146 (210)

catvoca (1)
yesnononoyes 210

lone_prodigy (1)
melonrabbit 214

*splinter (0)
cabot 217 (233)

terrabyte20xx (2)
cabot 233
stanleypalmtree 264


DAY 1 ENDS:

DO NOT POST AFTER DAY END -- :59 OKAY, :00 NOT OKAY

IMPORTANT POSTS:
OP
D1 Start

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

okies, dinner has been consumed \o/

SO. I was on Catvoca before, but he has now returned to the thread and explained that he is on Ireland timezone. I wasn't convinced, so I kept my vote on him as I promised I would go and reread.

Now i have went back to reread on the pages. i'm not particularly sold on Catvoca before, but i see now that he has come with a satisfactory analysis on ty4on's posts. it's true, now that i have reread, ty4on's posts have been peppered with mechanics but i believe he also had dropped enough hints on his reads. post no.100, for example, laid it out right that he reads cabot as scummy and hyper as null. so i think yonyon's still in my okay book.

however!

since i did reread everyone's posts, im noticing a thing or two that i dont quite like with melonrabbit's narrative.

let me unpack for your perusal:

firstly, she came to the thread with post no. 106, jokingly saying that the thread is a mess, and lamenting that the mafia universe link yonyon provided would have been useful in her prior game (danny phantom).

to respond to this, in post no. 111, yonyon actually explained that the very link he provided was taken from danny phantom. and that he actually like the kind of 'mess' in which discussions actually take place amongst the game participants.

in post no. 122, melon quickly backtracked on her joke, saying that she, too, values discussions, before she launched immediately into casting doubt on how much the peeking plan will be useful for town, using the rather dubious phrasing, "I worry it helps us as much as it helps them."

kawl actually picked up on the oddity of the phrasing, in the following post no. 123:

Interesting phrasing there.

Again, if everyone is peeking, it provides no information as far as vanilla townies go.

But the flow of this trail was led away by melon's response in post no. 126, in which she only addressed the latter part of the post, and not the awkward phrasing part:

Just to I understand you correctly, we are all agreeing to peek during the start of D2 to assist the cop, yes?

She found safety ground and affirmed that the plan was now making sense to her in post no. 130.

Her posts also fall into a strange pattern in which she continuously throw slight but persistent shade at the peeking plan.

post no.142 - inserting a clause that the plan will fall apart unless everyone is in it:

I agree. This whole thing falls apart unless we all are for it. And we definitely need to hear from everyone if we are going to reach a decision.

post no. 163 - insinuating that only SOME of us are in it:

See, Sophia? Some of us are very enthusiastic about this plan.

post no. 176 - defensive about being indecisive about the peeking plan even though she previously said that it was already making more sense to her, whilst simultaneously casting shades at those who are pro-peeking readily:

I don't think having doubts or being hesitate necessarily suggests anything. But being too quick to reach a verdict is far more scummy.

Thankfully, Kawl saw that encouraging further indecision is wasting away our precious short Day phase in post no. 177:

24 hour days, I'd like to not spend the entire phase on just this one topic. I think it has been discussed to an appropriate extent as pretty much the only topic of real meat thus far. If any one has any particular qualms, issues, or questions share them with the class. Otherwise, lets chime in so we can settle this issue.

Tittering away an entire phase sounds like a great way to let scum coast to a victory.

Then she agreed about not wasting time whilst in the same post kept on throwing shade at the ones already on board, post no. 181:

Certainly.

It just seems odd that some people had immediate reactions to your suggestion and had little run for any kind of dialog. Food for thought.

I am still curious what some of the undeclared are thinking.

Again, Kawl put in a good post to highlight that we need about 9 players to participate and that'd be enough for the peeking plan to go ahead, post no.189:

Right and we shouldn't, but I would like to know if you are still against peeking with the further details provided.

I'm of the mind that if at least 9 of us agree that it's a good idea then we should do it. If not then whatever.

And, then, after Sophia placed her interest in me, she hitched a ride readily, with post. 198. Now, to be honest, this is one of the posts that alerted me to her soft jostling in the back of the more visible players (in this case, Sophia). In this post she said that she asked me about my stance, and if you look back, I made the post of alluding factions (pro peek, anti peek and confused people) on post no. 153 and i made the post saying i was in favour of peeking in post no. 160

(Now, to do a small tangent on this. I consider the pro and anti factions to be very visible, and it's those that are in the middle that were of concerns to me. Which, she was one.)

So, I finally made the call out to the middlegrounders in post no. 173.

In her post no. 198, she seems unhappy that i had insisted that others take sides. This was where I started to feel as if she's not happy that someone had place people into factions, in which she was a middlegrounder.

That was ringing alarm bells for me.

She further continues casting quiet and persistent shade at the plan at every opportunity.

In post no. 208:

Good evening, Gentlemen Stan.

Thank you for eloquently wording something that has troubled me about the long-term game of peeking. Consistency or lack thereof...

I then posted the vote tally in post no. 212, in which people who had not played any votes thus far in the game were highlighted. She was one of said people.

Immediately, she placed a vote on Lone_Prodigy, two posts after the vote tally, calling him posting fluff where he was actually voicing that he was pro peeking, post no. 214.

Now, here's an interesting bit! Sophia dropped Lone_Prodigy's name ONE POST before the Vote Tally, at post no. 211:

Besides agreeing with the commentary regarding cabot and catvoca, I don't feel confident about Lone_Prodigy myself. He's had very little to say outside of Kawl's plan.

It didn't escape my notice that she was jumping down my throat (198) after Sophia voted for me (196) and that she was leaping on Lone_Prodigy's butts (214) as soon as Sophia dropped his name (211).



So, that's where i am at the moment. Sorry for the long read >___<;;;;

That took a long time for me to compose, if there are typos please forgive.

I'm really not feeling great about melon's continuous softly and persistently throwing shade at the peeking plan, and the way she just hitched rides once someone else dropped a name is also troubling. Not the greatest read for Day 1, but I hope at least it would provide some interesting thoughts to town's efforts.

With that, I will move my vote from Catvoca to melonrabbit -

Vote: melonrabbit

 

[cabot]

Yeah so yeeny's probably at the bottom of my day 1 lynch pile now.

I must admit I was kind of null on melon but I'm not sure if it's scum or something else. It's why I've been quiet on her. Was hoping to tackle her in day 2.

metaphorically of course.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

batsie, kristoffers vote is on cabot still and is inflating the numbers of vote on him

you need to RECOUNT and CTRL+F5

 

[batsnacks]

DAY 1 VOTES:

hyperactivity (0)
kristoffer 23 (46)

cabot (2)
kawl_usc 24 (265)
lone_prodigy 31 (31)
*splinter 37 (51)
kristoffer 46
skyodin 206

yesnononoyes (2)
cabot 27 (217)
sophia 196
*splinter 241

kristoffer (0)
ty4on 29 (149)

kawl_usc (1)
lone_prodigy 31 (103)
*splinter 51 (241)
terrabyte20xx 77

ty4on (1)
skyodin 39 (206)
catvoca 259

stanleypalmtree (0)
yesnononoyes 146 (210)

catvoca (1)
yesnononoyes 210 (270)
kawl_usc 267

lone_prodigy (1)
melonrabbit 214

*splinter (0)
cabot 217 (233)

terrabyte20xx (2)
cabot 233
stanleypalmtree 264

melonrabbit (1)
yesnononoyes 270

RULE CLARIFICATION:
This game is plurality lynch. The person with the most votes at the end of each phase is lynched. A day phase will not end early if a majority is reached.

 

[batsnacks]

I'm at work till about an hour before day end and it's hard doing vote counts on my phone, anyone that wants to help out with those is welcome to

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

imma go to bed now

will try to wake up an hour or two before day end, but ... it will be like 5 or 6 AM >___<

so if im not around, i probably have murdered my alarm clock and failed to wake :x

gnight~

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

VOTE: Terrabyte20xx

Would you see Kawl lynched this day for the reason you gave?

No. That was a day one post one vote. It was meant to see how kawl would react. I didn't know how to feel about him at first so O put my vote there. Looking back at his posts, I don't think we should Lynch him, at least not today.

UNVOTE

Not gonna lie though, I am not a fan of these 24 hour day phases, I don't feel like I can get good enough reads on people.

 

[cabot]

I'm at work till about an hour before day end and it's hard doing vote counts on my phone, anyone that wants to help out with those is welcome to

Oh good thing Kris is just here to.....

Oh

 

[Sophia]

Good morning, everyone.

Unvote

Catching up to all the stuff that happened in the moment. I'll be back in like 20-30 minutes with my thoughts.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Figured I'd take an in depth look at one of the two players who struck me as a bit odd at the start of the game.

I don't pay attention to juniors



What's to stop scum from getting in on that and saying one of their scum mates is town, and for all we know, we have no clue

It also makes any doctors' job particularly hard, not even counting the fact that 1-shot cop is our most likely claim


And what's to stop an ordinary from screwing up and telling everybody one of the scum is innocent?

Entrance to the game: faux shade at kris, comes out swinging at the peeking idea saying that scum will use it to clear other scum, townies will accidently clear scum, and it will make the doctors job harder. I'll assume that he didn't really grasp what the end game of peeking is since it seems he thought they would have impact immediately on day 2 following them being posted.

According to this, we have about a 77.34% chance of having a roleblocker, not even counting the slight possibility of having a town one getting in our way. So yeah, if we have a cop, a straight claim without much to show is pretty terrible, especially without any watchers or trackers

My major concern here is that while statistically, more non-cop cop claims raises the odds the cop doesn't die, should we have a doctor, that doctor wouldn't know where he should aim.

So then, you have a situation where the cop is protected by numbers, but if scum guess right and the doctor wrong, that swings the game a bunch. Because we relied on the pure probability of it all, the scum is much less defended from an actual kill.

And don't forget the scum roleblocker that we probably have. Let's say we have 4 cop claims in total. For one, you've mentioned that you hope ordinaries jump on this, but if scum get lucky and guess right, hoorah, you've outlined a whole bunch of players scum won't look at to be targeted. If those players are prs, they just drew a target on themselves.

So let's say 4 claims in total. Scum just have to kill and block one pair, and then the other. If at any point the real cop is blocked, he would have to give a bs guess to make it not obvious, and if he calls the sk or scum town? This has the nice side effect of making scum think the cop is fake, but it also helps them sift through the fakes more easily

And at the end of this all, our most likely option is that we just have a 1-shot cop

His second post. He seems to have a better grasp of what the peeking start entails here which is fair. Brings up the likelihood of a scum role blocker which is in fact a fact that should push people towards peeking. In a game that likely has a roleblocker mafia has two ways of dealing with overly obvious cop breadcrumbs, kill or block. A full peek provides ample cover where the cop does not have to extend their neck with a breadcrumb.

He says his biggest fear is again concerning the doctor not knowing who to protect and that peeking will somehow muddy this water. First, it's not a sure thing we have a doctor (50% less likely than a cop). Secondly, He then paints a scenario where only 4 people peek and is worried that this will lead to the cop being more likely to die/made useless. However, that same situation also increases the chance of a doctor guessing the same as scum. A successful doctor protect with out a hard claim is very rare any how, but his two protest seem to run kind of counter current to me here. If you consider the implications of this 4 peek hypothetical you might also realize the additional benefits of setting up peeks by the by.

Ends with a one liner that we most likely only have a one shot cop, which has since been addressed in the addendums to the peeking plan.

This is true, but I feel the most effective cop play remains the same as always: sift through the townies, hiding them in your gut reads, townie lists, etc, until you find a scum.

If you find scum N1, breadcrumb it, but maybe confirm another townie N2 (although with the high chance of us having an SK, this might be overly dangerous)

Still anti peek. Argues that bread crumbing is a more optimal cop play. If scum is on high alert looking for bread crumbs I feel it will be easier to guess at the cop from the pool of posts that could be possible breadcrumbs than it would from the pool of hard and fast peeks. even if you assume equal number of breadcrumbers as we would have peekers what you gain in possible anonymity I feel you lose fair lore in possible confusion on flip. The hard nature of the peek list gives complete confirmation of the listed members (minus the godfather of course). Basically, I think depending breadcrumbs leaves the cop as open to his proclaimed fears above yet he's fine with it over peeking. Doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense to me.

If what world is claiming you investigated that person not a fake claim of having a cop role?

A semantic disagreement which I would feel looks bad except his next response....

Hmm, I guess if we got EVERYONE in the game, even scum and SK, to be forced into claiming a peek, I might like the odds of hiding the cop in numbers more.

Shows him warming up to the idea after having it clarified again. Name calling the SK here jumps out to me a bit here (only a 50% probability versus the ~70ish% of scum role blocker). I take issue with the last sentence as it's just a fact that everyone peeking increases the odds of hiding the cop as well as any other method while providing more concrete data. (Scum has a good idea that if anyone lists scum as a top town they probably aren't cop unless they see another breadcrumb hidden throughout the day, much like an incorrect peek).

When the true cop finds scum, he claims

If the true cop finds scum he claims. Everyone else claims town. This makes peeking alot less viable late game, but numbers dwindle down late game, of course that will happen.

So Kawl, if we only have a 1-shot, how does he verify when he made the shot? Because if he goes along with the peeking, he would be expected to mention him being one shot on day 2, but if he's' smart and saves it till lter?

He brings up cop immediately claiming when finding town which I agree with. It is notable for being different from what he calls optimal cop start in an earlier post, but I believe this is in a scenario where everyone is peeking in which case his perceived optimal start is different.
Brings up a valid concern on how to give legitimacy to a 1 shot cops check on day 2. Which I like.
Actually read back the context of the thread and that had already been addressed by Ty. So I don't really give him much credit for this.
But continues to throw shade on peeking by decrying its value in the late game.
Which I don't like. As I feel in the late game if the cop is still alive then great peeking didn't need to come into play. Typically by the time peeking is no longer viable the cop can safely come forward and should do so to provide a cleared town list (minus god father or investigative immune SK)

I'm not sure I follow here. For one, there's no real reason why Kawl would be doing this that tells me one way or the other what he is. Yeah, you technically have a WIFOM, but you can make a WIFOM out of any player in the game, the only issue is whether there's anything solid to make you lean one way or the other. Yeah, people come straight out of the gate, yadda yadda yadda, scum like to control conversation, is scummy. But we have no proof backing up what he is here

2nd, tbh, Kawl's peeking idea seems pretty beneficial to town. I'm not sure if this is enough to make me think of him being town, as for all I know he just wanted to introduce the concept to gafia, but it makes me lean that way. It might just be scum trying to gain trust, but if we get a good plan out of it, then why the hell not.

It fits in with GAFIA's habit of lynching player's that stand out too much on day 1, but I'm not sure if that was ever a good thing to begin with.

Speaking from being in that position (straight out of the gates) in harry potter and Bar (scum and arsonist), being in that position only gets you so far. I did in HP because I had a bunch of scummates, so me dying early wasn't too bad. I did it in bar because I had a win condition I could go after pretty early.

Defends me from a vote. Says that he thinks peeking is beneficial to town (which seems a bit different from his most recent post where he says he thinks he is coming around to it and in fact he will go back and forth a few more times still I believe).

Notes that active people aren't necessarily scum. Just look at these two examples where he took an aggressive stance....and wait a minute both of those were anti town roles.

I read this as a sly post that both defends me, champions peeking, and also throws some subliminal shade at me by linking my behavior and activity with his as two non town roles. That association will remain in people's minds regardless of his defense of me up above.

But won't every person just default to saying "If I was one shot, this was my shot" by tomorrow? Are we going to organize who says when their one shot was?

Err, nevermind, just realized the beauty of it all. As long as everyone does the above it's fine

This posts doesn't sit right worth me. Trying to organize something like this would inherently mess it up even more wrt his concerns in accidently outing the cop or screwing up when the 1 shot cop was used. Organizing details usually only helps scum and is something scum does in their little scum chat. Town plans should be generally outlined with specifics left unsaid so that scum can't disrupt them effectively.

Also, the last line is the start of these posts where hyper writes in his flip flopping mid posts. These read like a superficial attempt at showing a conflicted townie/transparency into his thought process. I don't buy it and think it's him further refusing to take a hard stance so he can back out of peeking if it seems enough of town will go that way.

That's the beauty of this situation, and why I'm coming around on it. As long as everyone is involved, neither scum nor town are any closer to knowing who was the cop or not, but the cop has a safe space to give his actual results.

The one bad scenario is if a bunch of people give scum and the SK town reads, because that,

Actually, thinking about it now, that could be the main backfire of this whole idea. Ideally, everyone only gives townies town reads, however, bulletproof SK and scum could use the people claiming they are town to find the cop. If we had no peeking, scum would look through a pool of 10-12 people for the cop tomorrow, but every person that screws it up gets scum closer to the cop than they would have been

Hmm, not sure if I'm as on board now. Is it worth that risk?

"That's the beauty of it"
"Well except for maybe this one thing...."
"J/K guys I know in two post before this I said it was pro town and started with that idea here, but I just think the chance of people screwing up with peeks is just too high"
"I'm not sure, is anyone else not sure? Can i manage to back out of this peeking thing without looking scummy? Please, anyone?"

Don't we have examples of cops pretty effectively hiding who they investigated to their death?

Alot of their reads then suddenly make sense, but are passed over at initial glance.

Is back to arguing that he thinks bread crumbs are most effective. Except wait for the next post...

We need a database on the situation behind every cop kill, because I swear that every time I've been scum, I've missed what are, in hindsight, pretty obvious bread crumbs. I'm not saying this is always true, but speaking from my experiences as scum before, they don't really comb the thread as well as alot of people assume

Of course, I also don't think we've had many cops die and only relay us their breadcrumbs, besides examples like Dangaropa (faked a sleepwalker who knew who he visited) and Archer (checked a private chat's members, was able to tell those people) and Harry Potter in a sense (that stupid coding bs XD) where they used something unorthodox to get it done

Database, database trapped inside the database...

So says as scum he usually misses breadcrumbs so what can the harm possibly be.

And wait also admits that typically it requires more than just breadcrumbs for cops to be believed/their reads to be pieced together.

So kind of seems to be arguing against himself here with respect to bread crumbs being optimal play.

More waffling.

We also have to decide on it today, and stick with it. If we decide to not go through with it, but kawl still thinks its a good idea, he can't just go and post who he peeked tomorrow and try and force everyone else to post as a stopgap/save

Last post as of now, back to throwing shade on both peeking "IF we decide to not go through with it (please town help me not appear scummy)" and on me personally. Insinuates that I would move forward with a suboptimal strategy out of spite. No dice compadre.

The inconsistency in logic and arguments here as well as the continual foot dragging against what I think is a pro town strategy is enough for me.

Don't like what I see.

Vote: Hyperactivity

 

[Ty4on]

Apologies for inactivity. I was busy for most of the day, but I should be active till day end.

Town
Catvoca - I haven't made a detailed read of him, but his read of me is not a safe read. I don't think I've been that blendy, but I see where he's coming from and it's more understandable when no one have voiced suspicion of me so far.

Yeeny - She plays like I expect town yeeny to play and seems calm and cheerful. I also agree with her read of melonrabbit.

Terrabyte - This is really not a strong town read, but I was suspicious of his opening post as well. When I read over his initial posts though I noticed that he didn't seem to hide from what was going on (pretty direct reply to Kawl) and seemed vested in the game. Not a strong read, but just my two cents on why I don't want him lynched right now.

Kawl - Also not a strong read and someone I need to read more closely. Someone who is strong out the gate though IMO is more likely than not a townie wanting to get the game going. As scum it's much easier and safer to stay low and I don't think people were expecting him to be active.

--------------------

Scum
melonrabbit - I haven't read yeeny's post in detail yet, but I have found her to be a bit off coming from DP. She seems much more cautious and a lot less curious.

Gonna read her more closely after dinner, but for now:

VOTE: melonrabbit

Spoiler

Why do I keep writing these on mobile ._.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Blah noticed typo under the 6th quote it should read "cop immediately coming forward when finding SCUM" instead of town.

Sorry that took a while and a lot of copy and pasting on mobile.

I'm gonna actually do some work for a bit so probably won't have another post with that level of detail but I'll be peeking in and out until day's end (and lunch hour should give me some time to focus here as well).

 

[Sophia]

Hmm.... Ynnny does make a fairly compelling argument against melonrabbit. I must say that I do like Ynnny's activity on this page, so the coasting scum vibes have disappeared a bit.

As for Catvoca's case against Ty4on, I'm not sure I agree. For some reason I'm not getting the same vibes from Ty4on that I did in Danny Phantom. He's made some strong opinions regarding Kawl's plan, and he has put himself out there with a bit of scum hunting.

The backpedal was a little weird though:.

Kawl, who's you top town?

>_>

You don't have anything? Anyone who feels off?

Thanks. I don't think anything of Hyper so far, but it looks like we agree on cabot.

And that's before Catvoca called him out. Certainly, I do feel he flew a bit under the radar in the sense that nobody was looking at him. I don't think I'd want to vote for him today however.

 

[Ty4on]

Blah noticed typo under the 6th quote it should read "cop immediately coming forward when finding SCUM" instead of town.

Sorry that took a while and a lot of copy and pasting on mobile.

I'm gonna actually do some work for a bit so probably won't have another post with that level of detail but I'll be peeking in and out until day's end (and lunch hour should give me some time to focus here as well).

Fuck, you wrote all of that on mobile? And I thought my post was long...

I'm tired, but I'll force myself to go through it. My read of Hyper so far is that he's just been here. I don't have a ton of experience playing with him, but I expected something more aggressive.

 

[Sophia]

As an aside, I'll be a bit busy until about 1 PM EST. I'll be here from that point until the end of the phase tho.

 

[melonrabbit]

Ynny,

(I'm currently at work but I wanted to respond to you. Please forgive any typos as I'm currently on mobile.)

As far as your initial impression of me, I think you're making a mountain out of a simple joke (mainly in how messy DP got from D1 on - again the meta). In fact, most of what you are taking issue or attempting to turn around on me is me making a joke or referencing someone else's joke (such as my response to Stan)

I have stated my reasoning for being on the fence in several posts. (1) I simply wasn't fully grasping what Kawl was proposing (like the majority needed to be involved in the peek). (2) there are some areas of the plan seems like scum could expoilt it. I am still hesitate but I'm willing to try it out on D2. I'm not fully going to understand how this plan work until we try it. I feel dumb because I had to read what Kawl was saying as bunch of term before I understand any of the terms.

I put pressure on you because I've never played with you before and am new to the community and haven't had much interaction. After you replied, I felt much better and developed more of an impression from you.

I stand by my assessment and read of Lone. Most of his posts have been filler. Whether he is pro-peek or not. He is still not adding much to the discussion so far and the definition of middle ground, you yourself pointed out, at least in terms of posting activity.

Lastly, I'm at work until after the deadline and wanted to get my vote in beforehand because often I'm unavailable at 5pm.

Also, I was criticized in DP for being MIA during D1 and wanted to make sure I was engaging in the discussion and not being silent. Communication is our biggest asset and our best way to scum hunt.

(All I can say for right now, lunch break over. Should be back before the deadline).

 

[Ty4on]

(All I can say for right now, lunch break over. Should be back before the deadline).

What do you think of Hyper? Doesn't have to be deep if you have some gut feelings.

 

[Sophia]

His second post. He seems to have a better grasp of what the peeking start entails here which is fair. Brings up the likelihood of a scum role blocker which is in fact a fact that should push people towards peeking. In a game that likely has a roleblocker mafia has two ways of dealing with overly obvious cop breadcrumbs, kill or block. A full peek provides ample cover where the cop does not have to extend their neck with a breadcrumb.

He says his biggest fear is again concerning the doctor not knowing who to protect and that peeking will somehow muddy this water. First, it's not a sure thing we have a doctor (50% less likely than a cop). Secondly, He then paints a scenario where only 4 people peek and is worried that this will lead to the cop being more likely to die/made useless. However, that same situation also increases the chance of a doctor guessing the same as scum. A successful doctor protect with out a hard claim is very rare any how, but his two protest seem to run kind of counter current to me here. If you consider the implications of this 4 peek hypothetical you might also realize the additional benefits of setting up peeks by the by.

Ends with a one liner that we most likely only have a one shot cop, which has since been addressed in the addendums to the peeking plan.

This post is the one that really made me curious when I first popped into the thread. I didn't think too much of it in terms of scum-reading, but for some reason I was drawn to it anyhow. Re-reading over your argument for it, I realize why. It's basically saying a whole lot of nothing. It's speculation into a setup that's randomly generated early on in a game where nobody is obviously going to reveal their power roles. Leaves me wondering what he was actually trying to go for here....

 

[cabot]

I'm on my second strong coffee after coming home, this could be the one to help me finish reading Hyperactivity's posts.


I guess you could say....

I'm ready for Hyperactivity.


YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

[cabot]

hyperactivity (1)
kawl_usc 279

cabot (1)
kawl_usc 24 (265)
lone_prodigy 31 (31)
*splinter 37 (51)
skyodin 206

yesnononoyes (1)
cabot 27 (217)
sophia 196 (278)
*splinter 241

kristoffer (0)
ty4on 29 (149)

kawl_usc (0)
lone_prodigy 31 (103)
*splinter 51 (241)
terrabyte20xx 77 (276)

ty4on (1)
skyodin 39 (206)
catvoca 259

stanleypalmtree (0)
yesnononoyes 146 (210)

catvoca (0)
yesnononoyes 210 (270)
kawl_usc 267 (279)

lone_prodigy (1)
melonrabbit 214

*splinter (0)
cabot 217 (233)

terrabyte20xx (2)
cabot 233
stanleypalmtree 264

melonrabbit (2)
yesnononoyes 270
ty4on 280

 

[cabot]

Sick reads just coming in via the teleproncter just now:

I don't think the three women are scum together.


Oh yeah, the coffee has hit.

 

[SkyOdin]

SkyOdin - I'm not really sure, theres some questioning which reads as inexperienced (could be town or scum) but also the way he just sat a vote on me seemed weird. It just felt like picking an easy target, in a game of non-majority rule where placing your vote down isn't as powerful as the other games we've played here. I don't see much useful content either yet.

My excuse is the same as yours: I went to bed after making that post. However, after waking up and reading over the posts you made last night, I am now getting some more definitive scummy vibes from you. Your opening vote on YesNOnoNOYes really did come across as a joke with no weight to it, so to turn around and call Yenny scum for not responding to it seems suspicious. You are being constantly suspicious of those who vote for you, so you are coming across as highly defensive. You also criticize me for targeting an "easy target", i.e. you, but then turn around and place a vote on Lone Prodigy using similar reasoning to what I used to place a vote on you. It feels like you are using a double standard for what kind of logic is acceptable between the votes others place an you and the votes you place on others.

I think I am happy leaving my vote on you for now.

 

[cabot]

OK, my votes on Terra though.


I'm eliminating the players I think have contributed nothing of worth today.

I've also been openly suspicious of one single player on my vote trail, you.

Kawl was a neutral/null and Splinter is uncertain because its Splinter. They're both active enough to not get my vote on D1 though.

But cool, yeah all suspicious cretins.

 

[Timeaisis]

Just wanted to quickly chime in and say Cabot gets 1000 bonus points for his avatar.

That is all. Carry on.

 

[cabot]

Just wanted to quickly chime in and say Cabot gets 1000 bonus points for his avatar.

That is all. Carry on.

I'll bank them to bazooka: SkyOdin please.

 

[Timeaisis]

Sorry, we don't start microtransactions until day 4.

 

[cabot]

Apologies for inactivity. I was busy for most of the day, but I should be active till day end.

Town
1)Catvoca - I haven't made a detailed read of him, but his read of me is not a safe read. I don't think I've been that blendy, but I see where he's coming from and it's more understandable when no one have voiced suspicion of me so far.

2)Yeeny - She plays like I expect town yeeny to play and seems calm and cheerful. I also agree with her read of melonrabbit.

3)Terrabyte - This is really not a strong town read, but I was suspicious of his opening post as well. When I read over his initial posts though I noticed that he didn't seem to hide from what was going on (pretty direct reply to Kawl) and seemed vested in the game. Not a strong read, but just my two cents on why I don't want him lynched right now.

4)Kawl - Also not a strong read and someone I need to read more closely. Someone who is strong out the gate though IMO is more likely than not a townie wanting to get the game going. As scum it's much easier and safer to stay low and I don't think people were expecting him to be active.

--------------------

Scum
melonrabbit - I haven't read yeeny's post in detail yet, but I have found her to be a bit off coming from DP. She seems much more cautious and a lot less curious.

Gonna read her more closely after dinner, but for now:

Spoiler

Why do I keep writing these on mobile ._.

I don't like this post very much.

1)
It's not 'safe' as in its not an opinion someone else voiced before catvoca brought it up, but it's safe in that you have kind of been here but not much else. You talked some mechanics with me then sort of drifted. You do have dropping me as a scumread in your favour (though very early doors and it's now gone) but I wouldn't call catvoca's read particularly bold.

2)
What can you expect from Yeeny when you've never played with her before and she's been on top of almost every mafia game since her long inactive period? Like how can you form expectations of a specifically aligned Yeeny from this? It seems like a pretty bizarre conclusion. I liked that in depth melon analysis, and while I don't agree with her outcome completely, she bought a ticket off my lynch choices for today.

3)
Now I've clearly stated Terra is a bit of a blind spot for me, but I'd just like to see I don't see the investment from him. He in fact said this:

Not gonna lie though, I am not a fan of these 24 hour day phases, I don't feel like I can get good enough reads on people.

which seems like a weak evasion to getting invested.

4) Can you tell me why you think people didn't expect Kawl to be active? The only game where he really wasnt was Love Boat to my memory, where he was locked scum with Blarg.

1) He was a scum pair, not on his own. with Blarg
2) I called him on this during that game, so logically he'd remember this and try to counteract that this time.

I can't comment on your melon read because that's based on a game you played in, so yeah I'll accept that one.

Also, back to SkyOdin:

Your opening vote on YesNOnoNOYes really did come across as a joke with no weight to it, so to turn around and call Yenny scum for not responding to it seems suspicious.

Assumptions make asses. This is a game where anything can be passed as a joke if its under the spotlight. I don't like people just making a narrative themselves with comments made by others. Attack it, clarify the jokes. Don't just accept it.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Rereading the thread, I’ve settled on a few new reads. Among the stragglers, Lone Prodigy stands the most out to me. The majority of his posts have been repetitions of what was already just discussed on the page without adding commentary or additional thoughts. Giving the appearance of taking care of business when in reality: all fluff.

Examples? See this very page. The post above this space.

Vote: Lone_Prodigy

I like to think I'm not parroting and contributing my own opinions and perspectives, but when you enter a discussion late (see some of the players who didn't post until page 2) you've missed the initial querying and have to basically say "I'm here and pro-peek! Now what?"

As for the coasting, I'm not alone in that regard. YNNNY has already done the work in post 270, but you haven't contributed much either. Your explanation to YNNNY's vote in 285 is similar to what I would've said: peeking is a new foreign concept that I haven't seen before, and wanted to know more about it. It's not foolproof, but it's worth the risk.

The case against Hyper has merit, but that is his style. Not sure why he talked about databases though.

 

[Sophia]

Hmm... Cabot, now that you mention it, Terra's been playing it really safe. I'm curious as to where Ty4on got his town read of Terra from, because I don't see it one bit.

Somehow I missed day star. :/


Welp, no use in crying about it now, let's do this town!

Vote: Kawl_USC


This is not random unlike my usual day one votes. Belong late does have it's perks it seems. I don't like him going straight to power role speculation right out of the gate. It's very much WIFOM, but doing so is a very easy way for a scum player to get a head start and some town leadership cred.

Easy vote on the active person who tried to put forth a suggestion. I guess there was a bit of power role speculation on Kawl's part initially, but...

*Checks page number* 2

...


Huh?

Not sure what the page number has to do with top town reads. This is a very active game so it's not unreasonable to maybe have a town read by then.

Okay, caught up. Welcome Sophia, glad to have you here.

Kawl said it earlier, and I'm actually inclined to agree with him, we really shouldn't waste the game phase talking about whether we are going to use the fake peek strategy.

Just discussion of the peeking after not really providing much anything most of the game.

After reading all the posts about, I am for. It's a strategy we have yet to try so I think it's worth the risk.

Discussion of the peeking.

No. That was a day one post one vote. It was meant to see how kawl would react. I didn't know how to feel about him at first so O put my vote there. Looking back at his posts, I don't think we should Lynch him, at least not today.

UNVOTE

Not gonna lie though, I am not a fan of these 24 hour day phases, I don't feel like I can get good enough reads on people.

Cabot already mentioned this, but it's pretty weak evasion there.

--

I'm still thinking of who I'd like to place my vote on for the lynch today, but I'm looking closely at the following people: LP, Terra, Catvoca, melonrabbit, Hyperactivity

I feel like the five of them either have really low activity or there's some questionable posts among them that give me scum vibes.

Everyone else is basically off the table for me, for one reason or another.

 

[cabot]

Even going through Kawl's analysis of Hyperactivity was difficult, but I generally agree that he's not looking great.

His silence through most of today is alarming too, hoping he chimes in before day end.

 

[Ty4on]

I don't like this post very much.

1)
It's not 'safe' as in its not an opinion someone else voiced before catvoca brought it up, but it's safe in that you have kind of been here but not much else. You talked some mechanics with me then sort of drifted. You do have dropping me as a scumread in your favour (though very early doors and it's now gone) but I wouldn't call catvoca's read particularly bold.

In my experience scum doesn't scum read me a lot. That might be changing after my first game as scum, but in the past they've been cautious. Maybe I was looking too much at the effect, but what caught my attention was Kawl immediately voting for him for his read of me. It doesn't look like a very safe read if someone attacks you for it. To me a safe read is someone who's not very active or who's already under pressure.

2)
What can you expect from Yeeny when you've never played with her before and she's been on top of almost every mafia game since her long inactive period? Like how can you form expectations of a specifically aligned Yeeny from this? It seems like a pretty bizarre conclusion. I liked that in depth melon analysis, and while I don't agree with her outcome completely, she bought a ticket off my lynch choices for today.

I don't expect yeeny to be this calm, especially when someone have voted for her. I've never played with her or really even read a game she's been in, but she's very much acting like the normal yeeny I've seen outside of games which is what I expect her town persona to look like. Scum is usually much more on the edge.

3)
Now I've clearly stated Terra is a bit of a blind spot for me, but I'd just like to see I don't see the investment from him. He in fact said this:



which seems like a weak evasion to getting invested.

I just like the tone. He doesn't seem to be excusing himself and more frustrated at the time constraint.
Really most of my read came from this post:

Yes it is?

Any time we talk about "If X is scum" it is Wine In Front Of Me by virtue of it potentially leading to circular logic.

Where again I liked the tone. He doesn't seem to be justifying his post, he seems to think Kawl was wrong.

4) Can you tell me why you think people didn't expect Kawl to be active? The only game where he really wasnt was Love Boat to my memory, where he was locked scum with Blarg.

1) He was a scum pair, not on his own. with Blarg
2) I called him on this during that game, so logically he'd remember this and try to counteract that this time.

I have the most experience from Kawl in Heist. That's a long time ago and he was new, but there he was much more cautious and so blendy he was NK'd on N2 I think.

I'm not sure if perceptions have changed, but my expectation of Kawl going into this game was that he wouldn't be very active. Unlike a player who's known to be active scum Kawl could have stayed more blendy instead of being so involved at the start.

Just in general I find being proactive (leading the discussion) to be townie because it is puts you in the spotlight, can be hard to pull off and town has a tendency of over-analyzing those.