Android18a
Member
She was a bit fiddly, but I finally finished assembling Kishdan, Sylph Champion. She's from the Legends of Signum tabletop game but I'm going to use her as a Spellweaver for my AoS Wanderer army I think. Really pretty mini!
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Miniature Gaming-Age (WH40k, Warmachine, Etc.)
- Thread starter BattleMonkey
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She was a bit fiddly, but I finally finished assembling Kishdan, Sylph Champion. She's from the Legends of Signum tabletop game but I'm going to use her as a Spellweaver for my AoS Wanderer army I think. Really pretty mini!
manfestival
Member
that is an awesome model. is that GW or FW?
Android18a
Member
Neither! It's from a small company over in Ukraine!
https://cadwallon.com/kishdan.html
They've got loads of awesome minis, check out the Legends of Signum section. I love the archer rabbit. Some really neat stuff that I'd love to get my hands on.
ScatheZombie
Member
My Orruk/Goblin army is basically all infantry. I haven't really had a problem with ranged units except Artillery in terrain-less games. Usually I can hide behind terrain or use cover saves to absorb everything they have to throw. And then my Ardboys and Brutes literally just chew through units once they get in melee range.
Summoning new units isn't free in points games (regenerating existing units is though). You have to reserve points for summoning. Summoning just allows you to bring different units onto the table based on the situation and/or have units show up on different parts of the board in later turns.
Behemoths are actually more balanced now than in WHF because of monster damage tables. Those giant units get substantially weaker as you damage them rather than being at full power right up until they're dead.
alright, thanks
I still get the impression though that the likes of Kurnoth Hunters, Stonehorns or those new Skaven rat ogres dominate the playfield. A lot of people online say that the units outvalue the old WHF ones. Infantry and cavalry are supposedly weaker than they used to be. Mind you, I never played a game of Warhammer, but Imo it should matter if a infantry block has T3 or T4. When the super units cut through goblins or chaos warriors alike, those minor stat differences lose their meaning unless they are fighting each other
something else, I quite like some of the new Tzeentch models and am considering building a small army. Can Skaven and Beastman also get the mark of Tzeentch or is that reserved for demons and warriors only? Also, do use a lot of combat effectivness when the entire army doesn't have the mark? Like, when I also want to use bloodletters and doomwheel, for example
ScatheZombie
Member
So, here's a misconception I can clear up for you. WHFB was not balanced. At all. Every single army had about 50% of their available units never touch a table because they were so underpowered or overpriced it never made any sense to take them. So any comparison to effectiveness in WHF is kind of moot because that system was pretty shit at overall balance anyway.
The thing 'people on the internet' are butt-hurt about with AoS is not that the game is unbalanced compared to WHF - because if anything, there's way more viable lists/units/army configurations than ever before. It's that the balance changed and now their 99% effective net-list that dominated games for the past 10 years is only as good as everything else. So that's where the relative differences and complaints come from.
The top lists from recent official tournaments have been Sylvaneth, Ironjawz, and Stormcast. Ironjawz have almost no ranged units. Stormcast have very little ranged (though the Vanguard line of units just added a bunch more). And the strong point of Sylvaneth isn't just their ranged units, but their ability to create terrain and teleport around the board to it (and then get pretty hefty bonuses from standing in it).
Marks of Chaos are no longer applied like they were in WHFB. Each individual unit will have it's own Mark rules if the Mark applies. And each individual unit that has those rules can have different marks than other units in your army. But - there's a lot of spells/abilities that only trigger on units with specific keywords. A unit of Chaos Warriors with the Mark of Tzeentch will get the Tzeentch keyword. Which means they'll only benefit from spells/abilities that target all units or Tzeentch units. Spell/abilities that target only Khorne units, for example, no longer work.
I don't play Chaos, but most Skaven don't have Chaos God keywords or Marks except a few with Nurgle. And most Beastmen don't have Chaos God keywords or Marks at all. You'd need to check the Warscroll for each individual unit you want to take and make sure everything kind of a matches up. You can run units that don't have the same keyword synergy, but you'll be a little less effective. If you want to run a Tzeentch army with keyword synergy, you'll be taking mostly Tzeentch, Everchosen, and Slaves to Darkness units.
For example, there's a few buffs within the Ironjawz portion of my 3000 pt Orruk/Goblin army that only affect Ironjawz keyword units - while other buffs only affect the Bonesplittaz units - while other buffs only affect Grots/Spiderfang units and so on. Now, I could make a giant army that just has one keyword synergy; but at the points level I'm at it actually makes a lot of sense to effectively have three separate armies with their own individual synergy since so many of the units will likely be spread out far enough to no longer fully benefit anyway (it's kind of hard to keep 3000 pts of models within 9"-16" of your general the whole game). This way I can keep a mass of Ironjawz with all their benefits, Bonesplittaz with all their benefits and Grots with all their benefits and surround my opponent while maintaining all the buffs on my individual clusters of keywords.
What kind of game that X-wing miniature game is? I mean, basic gameplay. And how accurate it is to Star Wars? That is, is it abstracted with different units just having different stats or do they have a lot of variables?
Apparently it is popular, and i wonder if it is because it is mechanically good or because it is Star Wars (or both)?
And will it last, i wonder. Collectible games have tendency to die away, or at least fade.
Oh, and are there any games akin to BattleTech (ie certain focus on distinct units, roughly skirmish-scale)? Not interested in playing exactly, but would be interested in studying their game mechanics. Miniature or hex-board.
Apparently it is popular, and i wonder if it is because it is mechanically good or because it is Star Wars (or both)?
And will it last, i wonder. Collectible games have tendency to die away, or at least fade.
Oh, and are there any games akin to BattleTech (ie certain focus on distinct units, roughly skirmish-scale)? Not interested in playing exactly, but would be interested in studying their game mechanics. Miniature or hex-board.
ScatheZombie
Member
Note: I do not personally play X-Wing, but I have assisted in running the local tournaments so most of my knowledge of the game is second-hand.
X-wing is basically a tactical skirmish battle system. It's pretty accurate to the Star Wars universe. There's a couple of allowances made for gameplay, of course. There are a lot of variables. Different units have slightly different stats and often different abilities. But the biggest impact on a variation is the cards that come with different ships - that can also be used with other ships. So there's a lot of cross-play between Rebels-Imperials-Scoundrels, and there's a lot of players who will buy ships from opposing factions just for their cards for their own ships.
It's not just popular, it is the currently the largest miniatures game on the market - bigger than 40K. It's probably won that honor by a combination of:
Having a relatively low price point for entry while still allowing massive investment by hardcore players.
Having pre-painted plastic miniatures that let you bypass the build & paint barrier of typical miniatures games (also, because they're plastic, they are super-easy to customize/custom paint, if you choose to).
It's a relatively simple miniatures game at it's core but there's a lot of depth from all the combinations of ships/cards you can use.
It's well-stocked at game stores that carry it and they release new units (and rules) fairly regularly.
It's Star Wars.
Will it last? Well, it's already 5 years old. And it's overtaken 40K. And Disney is firing out Star Wars movies for the next several years. So... yes.
As for the Battletech question, I actually don't know. We don't have anything like that in our store because everyone just plays Battletech. And by everyone, I mean, the 3-4 guys who still play it. So many miniatures games have died off locally. Card games too. We really only have healthy communities for a handful of games.
40K, AoS, X-Wing, Armada and Heroclix for miniatures.
Magic, Vanguard, and SW: Destiny for card games.
Warmahordes is dead. Guild Ball is dead. Blood Bowl never came back (because who the fuck wants to buy Forge World stuff?). Hobbit/LOTR SBG is dead. Malifaux is dead. Infinity never took off here.
Pokemon is dead (like 90% of our sales are just kids who are collecting cards and don't even know how to play). Yu-Gi-Oh is dead. The Final Fantasy card game would probably be popular if they sent us more than one box of boosters every 3 months (god damn you, Square Enix).
X-wing is basically a tactical skirmish battle system. It's pretty accurate to the Star Wars universe. There's a couple of allowances made for gameplay, of course. There are a lot of variables. Different units have slightly different stats and often different abilities. But the biggest impact on a variation is the cards that come with different ships - that can also be used with other ships. So there's a lot of cross-play between Rebels-Imperials-Scoundrels, and there's a lot of players who will buy ships from opposing factions just for their cards for their own ships.
It's not just popular, it is the currently the largest miniatures game on the market - bigger than 40K. It's probably won that honor by a combination of:
Having a relatively low price point for entry while still allowing massive investment by hardcore players.
Having pre-painted plastic miniatures that let you bypass the build & paint barrier of typical miniatures games (also, because they're plastic, they are super-easy to customize/custom paint, if you choose to).
It's a relatively simple miniatures game at it's core but there's a lot of depth from all the combinations of ships/cards you can use.
It's well-stocked at game stores that carry it and they release new units (and rules) fairly regularly.
It's Star Wars.
Will it last? Well, it's already 5 years old. And it's overtaken 40K. And Disney is firing out Star Wars movies for the next several years. So... yes.
As for the Battletech question, I actually don't know. We don't have anything like that in our store because everyone just plays Battletech. And by everyone, I mean, the 3-4 guys who still play it. So many miniatures games have died off locally. Card games too. We really only have healthy communities for a handful of games.
40K, AoS, X-Wing, Armada and Heroclix for miniatures.
Magic, Vanguard, and SW: Destiny for card games.
Warmahordes is dead. Guild Ball is dead. Blood Bowl never came back (because who the fuck wants to buy Forge World stuff?). Hobbit/LOTR SBG is dead. Malifaux is dead. Infinity never took off here.
Pokemon is dead (like 90% of our sales are just kids who are collecting cards and don't even know how to play). Yu-Gi-Oh is dead. The Final Fantasy card game would probably be popular if they sent us more than one box of boosters every 3 months (god damn you, Square Enix).
BattleMonkey
Member
Do you mean highly detailed games like Battletech, with lot of sim detail and book keeping? Starfleet Battles and Babylon 5 Wars kinda took those style of games and made naval battle games out of them. Most games though have tried to stray away from such heavy mechanic heavy styles, quicker playing and simpler games sell better.
If you want something like Btech but quicker to play, try Battletech Alpha Strike.
It's essentially battletech game system streamlined, the main change being is they removed most of the heavy book keeping that slowed the game down. Instead of having to for example roll to see where you hit, then mark off individual system damage, the mechs just have a basic life bar of armor and hitpoints that get ticked off as they take damage. The main mechanics are basically those of classic btech, just without all the extra sim details that made classic btech so slow.
Most shocking thing about your post is that there are BattleTech players. Though you seem to be from US, so maybe that's the reason. (Here in Finland, it seems people only play WH40K and Magic the Gathering, though i admittedly don't hang around gaming stores etc. much really.)
Also hilarious how BT has players, despite being so old. I guess it so niche it doesn't really die. I called it a "hipster game" once, got countered by "it is old man's game", which didn't seem right since the players i've seen younger than the game itself...
Anyway, X-wing. I wonder how big impact the pre-painted minis have. IIRC, MechWarrior Dark Age/Age of Destruction was really popular, and big reason for that was the pre-painted minis.
I was interested in Halo: Fleet Battles until i found out its units need assembling (and painting), all interest died from that. I already have BattleTech minis as my hobby so wasn't keen on another one.
Yes.
I play BattleTech, because i love the level of detail. I don't mind bookkeeping (norm for an RPG player like me), but i do find it a tad slow.
And i play Alpha Strike. But i think Alpha Strike loses just a little too much detail. So i keep wondering if there are similar systems that strike balance between quick play and detail more so than AS does.
ScatheZombie
Member
All of the local players are over 40, lol. They flip between Battletech and WW2 era war games.
Right. Now that i think of this, i saw older players in one place but the event organizers where young guys, under 30 almost certainly, like me (26).
BattleMonkey
Member
Battletech has it's fans, one of its biggest problems that keep it from growing is the lack of affordable miniature support. The whole thing with the minis being done by Iron Wind kinda sets things back, and the game just frankly is pretty complex to get into cause of how massive it is. The whole thing with all the different eras and how free form the system was made with unit construction, it's all really..... sloppy. I love btech, but it's also a mess. The push for Alpha Strike seems to have worn off, folks I know who work with Catalyst said the plastic mini box sets they did also sold poorly. They were hoping that it would be the new doorway into the game, a fresh start easy for new players to come in. They are still supporting the game, though not as heavily as they were for awhile, and now the "reboot" of classic btech with the upcoming new book is gonna have them focusing back on Classic I believe.
Most games really have gotten away from detailed sims sadly, the market likes quick to play and streamlined systems, with most games moving into streamlining and smaller rule sets with each new revision. Certain old school games still live on and get support like Btech does, like I previously mentioned with Star Fleet Battles... which is like Btech in space.
I think the boxed mini titan battle game Games Workshop put out was kinda battle tech like, with data sheets and detailed combat for mech vs mech combat. Not sure that's gonna get much support past the initial release though.
The way i see it, one of BattleTech's biggest issues is its lack of visibility. If you don't know it, you don't see it. Of course, with such small player base, i guess actually advertising and promoting the game is something of a "damned if don't, damned if you do" situation, due to expenses.
Miniatures are a problem perhaps but not the core issue. I think an issue here is conflicting messaging. BattleTech is not really a miniature game though it has miniature conversion and AS is based on minis.
Suppose the game came with simple cardboard counters (like so long ago it did) and offered cheap additional sets for vehicles, aircraft, extra 'Mechs, terrain features for maps... Focus on the game and the rules more so than the looks, and perhaps it would help the game as a whole. Miniature players could still obtain them from IW/RPE.
Presumably the current situation is kinda beneficial for Catalyst in that Iron Wind basically takes all the risks when it comes to minis. Though they also reap all the profits...
(I'm not actually interested in mecha beyond BattleTech. (Star Wars, StarCraft and Command&Conquer Tiberian timeline are exceptions though.) Funny that. I think i see mecha as too unrealistic for most part but i've known BT for so long and 'Mechs are the basic premise of the setting so it gets a pass from me.)
As for game speed... I guess simulationist games won't ever be popular. But they have some audience, and i'd imagine catering to that audience would be profitable if expenses are kept low.
BattleTech could use updating but i don't really see any method that doesn't involve overhauling everything and basically losing backwards compatibility with everything but fluff. Not sure existing players would be keen on re-acquiring TROs and the like, though perhaps TROs are they are outdated concept.
This is actually one reason i asked about the X-wing game, i wonder if modern games have something that could be applied to BattleTech and other simulationist games to modernize them but not really abstracting them too much.
Miniatures are a problem perhaps but not the core issue. I think an issue here is conflicting messaging. BattleTech is not really a miniature game though it has miniature conversion and AS is based on minis.
Suppose the game came with simple cardboard counters (like so long ago it did) and offered cheap additional sets for vehicles, aircraft, extra 'Mechs, terrain features for maps... Focus on the game and the rules more so than the looks, and perhaps it would help the game as a whole. Miniature players could still obtain them from IW/RPE.
Presumably the current situation is kinda beneficial for Catalyst in that Iron Wind basically takes all the risks when it comes to minis. Though they also reap all the profits...
(I'm not actually interested in mecha beyond BattleTech. (Star Wars, StarCraft and Command&Conquer Tiberian timeline are exceptions though.) Funny that. I think i see mecha as too unrealistic for most part but i've known BT for so long and 'Mechs are the basic premise of the setting so it gets a pass from me.)
As for game speed... I guess simulationist games won't ever be popular. But they have some audience, and i'd imagine catering to that audience would be profitable if expenses are kept low.
BattleTech could use updating but i don't really see any method that doesn't involve overhauling everything and basically losing backwards compatibility with everything but fluff. Not sure existing players would be keen on re-acquiring TROs and the like, though perhaps TROs are they are outdated concept.
This is actually one reason i asked about the X-wing game, i wonder if modern games have something that could be applied to BattleTech and other simulationist games to modernize them but not really abstracting them too much.
BattleMonkey
Member
It's more of how difficult it is for newbs to get into, especially if they have played a modern game in the past 20 years. You don't have set factions, army lists, simple build rules. Open up a book a Classic battletech and try to figure out how you actually play the game? It's a nightmare. The open ended nature of the game makes it way to complicated for a new player, as a person has no real clue how to start without a veteran to hold your hand. The newer total war books tried to fix this, but it still was brought down by having to keep all the old content and designs of the game.
How do I build an army? Well that's complicated... and the book doesn't really explain this. What size do I build, how do I build my force, what is a structure of units to take? Nope, this is all super vague. Theres tons of factions, so how do I pick a faction and build a list? Nope, once again books don't really mention this. How many points do I use? How do I handle different eras? What are all these record sheet books? How does custom mechs work? Classic btech is a mess, it's huge and not user friendly. Games like 40k and such have created expected standards that folks look for in games now, classic btech needs some serious revision.
They have been trying to change this with Alpha Strike and now having codex like army books with clear cut factional army build rules. Also simple unit cards, detailed formation building. But the game has like no marketing, hype, and well in the miniature gaming world.... you need cool minis to sell a game. Lot of the old minis are pretty bad, and alot of the old btech designs are really... ugly. Alpha Strike was their attempt at going for a newer market with more modern style of game, but without a good marketing push and cool minis behind it, the game was never gonna take off big. They also should have launched with a good incentive product, like a cool 2 player box set that draws folks in. Most miniature games have gone this route, it's a draw and how its easy for new players to ease into a game, rather than selling books and letting people figure it out.
Alpha Strike did have some success though, I know locally two btech groups developed from it, with some players graduating eventually from alpha to classc now too.
Battletech will always stay a niche game though.
How do I build an army? Well that's complicated... and the book doesn't really explain this. What size do I build, how do I build my force, what is a structure of units to take? Nope, this is all super vague. Theres tons of factions, so how do I pick a faction and build a list? Nope, once again books don't really mention this. How many points do I use? How do I handle different eras? What are all these record sheet books? How does custom mechs work? Classic btech is a mess, it's huge and not user friendly. Games like 40k and such have created expected standards that folks look for in games now, classic btech needs some serious revision.
They have been trying to change this with Alpha Strike and now having codex like army books with clear cut factional army build rules. Also simple unit cards, detailed formation building. But the game has like no marketing, hype, and well in the miniature gaming world.... you need cool minis to sell a game. Lot of the old minis are pretty bad, and alot of the old btech designs are really... ugly. Alpha Strike was their attempt at going for a newer market with more modern style of game, but without a good marketing push and cool minis behind it, the game was never gonna take off big. They also should have launched with a good incentive product, like a cool 2 player box set that draws folks in. Most miniature games have gone this route, it's a draw and how its easy for new players to ease into a game, rather than selling books and letting people figure it out.
Alpha Strike did have some success though, I know locally two btech groups developed from it, with some players graduating eventually from alpha to classc now too.
Battletech will always stay a niche game though.
Learning the game itself isn't that difficult in my experience. Once played with a total noob, he picked up the idea pretty quickly, though considering i was there helping.... That was Alpha Strike but the principles are similar enough.
You got a point about army building for sure. At times i've though that there are no real factional units is a problem (if nothing else, you can always say "it was salvage/stole/captured") but maybe it isn't. The rules, or more like, guidance, for selecting units is basically non-existent beyond the Combat Manuals, of which there are 2, with 2 coming (though latest news was basically "it is gonna take some time").
I still think for introducing the game, miniatures probably should be ditched. I figure that if a player has enough markers for units and plays for some time, they might get interested in actual miniatures. Starting with comparatively expensive minis is a problem.
Alternatively, pre-painted minis but i believe that requires considerable capital to set up, something CGL is almost certainly lacking (or prefers to concentrate on Shadowrun which is apparently considerably more profitable game).
Admittedly promoting the game as something else than a miniature game might be problematic.
EDIT That two-player box set thing... technically BT Box Set is that though it has flaws. Like no pre-determined idea lances or companies. Just "use equal tonnage" which is not that accurate even with Introductory level.
The guys (the ones i mentioned before) i played with at one con noted that Alpha Strike has brought some new players apparently. That is good certainly, especially if they'll learn classic BT...
Niche the game is and will stay like you say, but it could be more visible and better presented even so.
You got a point about army building for sure. At times i've though that there are no real factional units is a problem (if nothing else, you can always say "it was salvage/stole/captured") but maybe it isn't. The rules, or more like, guidance, for selecting units is basically non-existent beyond the Combat Manuals, of which there are 2, with 2 coming (though latest news was basically "it is gonna take some time").
I still think for introducing the game, miniatures probably should be ditched. I figure that if a player has enough markers for units and plays for some time, they might get interested in actual miniatures. Starting with comparatively expensive minis is a problem.
Alternatively, pre-painted minis but i believe that requires considerable capital to set up, something CGL is almost certainly lacking (or prefers to concentrate on Shadowrun which is apparently considerably more profitable game).
Admittedly promoting the game as something else than a miniature game might be problematic.
EDIT That two-player box set thing... technically BT Box Set is that though it has flaws. Like no pre-determined idea lances or companies. Just "use equal tonnage" which is not that accurate even with Introductory level.
The guys (the ones i mentioned before) i played with at one con noted that Alpha Strike has brought some new players apparently. That is good certainly, especially if they'll learn classic BT...
Niche the game is and will stay like you say, but it could be more visible and better presented even so.
ScatheZombie where do you get X-Wing being bigger than Warhammer 40k? ICv2 only goes off of estimates from talking to retail stores and distributors don't they? And only in the USA? And GW doesn't give them info from their direct sales, which I imagine is a large portion of their sales. It very welll might be more popular, but I don't think it is confirmed.
Anyway...
It appears CMON are making A Song of Ice and Fire miniature wargame. Could be cool, CMON doesn't have a good history of continued support though.
Source
Anyway...
It appears CMON are making A Song of Ice and Fire miniature wargame. Could be cool, CMON doesn't have a good history of continued support though.
Source
ScatheZombie
Member
ICv2.
It's about as accurate as NPD. But it is US only. Should note that X-Wing has been in first place back-to-back years now too.
GW only does a small percentage of their sales direct. It's one of the reasons they have been opening a bunch of new stores and relaxing independent shop requirements.
Source: Our GW rep.
It's about as accurate as NPD. But it is US only. Should note that X-Wing has been in first place back-to-back years now too.
GW only does a small percentage of their sales direct. It's one of the reasons they have been opening a bunch of new stores and relaxing independent shop requirements.
Source: Our GW rep.
manfestival
Member
Those new steampunk dwarves look so legit. Just might go into aos now
Android18a
Member
They're pretty neat. I might paint up a character or two but I don't think I'll build an army of steampunk duardin myself. At least not yet... using this as a chance to save some money and buy less minis. Got to try to catch up a bit.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
should I be spray painting the foundation(IE white) and then the base(IE red for blood angels)? Or should I use the brush to put the base on?
Android18a
Member
If you're using Mephiston Red spray, you can just apply it directly onto the plastic. Just do it in thin coats til you're happy with the result and spray from all the angles you can so you don't get unprimed areas under shoulder pads etc.
AbsolutBro
Member
This idea that everyone that complained about AoS and missing WHFB is a butt-hurt netlister is some of the most idiotic drivel I have ever heard.
My skaven list has/had not just one, but several units of Jezzails AND Poisoned Wind Globadiers. My friend fielded Brettonians full of peasants. I played fucking BEASTMEN for crying out loud. Plenty of people wanted a rank-and-file, block style game. AoS is not that.
Not to mention, when it was released, AoS was a goddamn joke. Full of idiotic, borderline insulting rules in its warscrolls for various units. Apparently it's gotten better, I wouldn't know since my group kept on with WHFB as best we could given its now complete lack of support.
ScatheZombie
Member
My response was to somebody who is specifically talking about people who were complaining about Age of Sigmar balance in direct comparison to WHFB balance. People who don't like Age of Sigmar because it's not a rank-and-file game have several options for other games including just continuing to play WHFB. We were not talking about those people. We were talking about people who continue to complain about Age of Sigmar while playing Age of Sigmar, and fondly misremembering WHFB as not the extremely flawed system it was. Those people are absolutely the people I just described.
Additionally, I'd like to point out that nearly all miniatures games are a joke when they first release. Warmahordes launch rules were atrociously bad, for example. I don't think it's particularly fair to compare a 30-year old, 8 full rule revision, rank-n-flank game to a brand-new, beta rule, skirmish game in that regard. Nor is it particularly fair to focus on the 2% of a units with weird or dumb warscrolls when 98% of them function almost identically across games. Nor is it particularly fair to argue what Age of Sigmar players are complaining about now and their reasons for doing so - when the game is basically on version 2.0 with essentially an entire new rulebook - when you admittedly don't know since you haven't seen it since it's shaky release.
The problems people had with the game 2 years ago are largely irrelevant. The problems people have with the game now are mostly born of either ignorance or nostalgia - with a sprinkling of legitimate gripes about certain overpowered or underpowered units and other questionable rules errata (however, like I said, it's way less of a problem in AoS than it ever was in WHFB, so comparisons between games for that reason alone are pretty dumb).
How's Star Wars Armada?
I actually got a bit intrigued about the X-Wing game after ScatheZombie post and reading a bit more about the game but i think i'm a fan of bigger SW ships really. Or, well, prefer more like task-force level combat than just dog fighting.
Unfortunately Armada is also roughly twice as expensive... The starter set includes some of my favorite SW ships though. Love Victory-class SDs.
I actually got a bit intrigued about the X-Wing game after ScatheZombie post and reading a bit more about the game but i think i'm a fan of bigger SW ships really. Or, well, prefer more like task-force level combat than just dog fighting.
Unfortunately Armada is also roughly twice as expensive... The starter set includes some of my favorite SW ships though. Love Victory-class SDs.
ScatheZombie
Member
Armada is a little slower, a little more tactical, and a little meatier in ruleset - especially in regards to overarching campaigns. The initial cost and individual ship cost is higher, but you get much larger ships and there isn't really any need to purchase a ton of other ships just to get their cards in order to stay competitive. You can pretty much build a single Armada of ships over the points total you are playing (our local tournament is currently up to 500 pts, I think - but most of the players have about 800 pts worth of ships that they build 500 pt lists with) and play with that indefinitely.
Whereas X-Wing has cheaper individual ships, but you'll likely be buying a ton more of them (and more frequently) in order to stay competitive in the current meta.
So, yeah, given what you've said so far, Armada is probably a better game for you. A quick breakdown from my Armada/X-Wing players is roughly something like:
Larger initial cost vs potentially larger upkeep cost
Meatier rules vs simple, but potentially deep ruleset
Longer games/campaigns vs short skirmishes
Whereas X-Wing has cheaper individual ships, but you'll likely be buying a ton more of them (and more frequently) in order to stay competitive in the current meta.
So, yeah, given what you've said so far, Armada is probably a better game for you. A quick breakdown from my Armada/X-Wing players is roughly something like:
Larger initial cost vs potentially larger upkeep cost
Meatier rules vs simple, but potentially deep ruleset
Longer games/campaigns vs short skirmishes
BattleMonkey
Member
Armada is got a good bit more complexity and tactical nature to it than X-Wing, it's not as popular though in large part to being more complex and a bit more expensive.
But still you will probably spend alot less on Armada than you would many other hobby miniature games.
But still you will probably spend alot less on Armada than you would many other hobby miniature games.
Well, it will take a while to catch up with what i've spent on BattleTech: Box set, 9x lance packs, 3 orders of minis, several rule/fluff books and novels, paints and tools.
Also the reason i won't be spending MUCH on other stuff.
Speaking of paints, i need to check weather forecasts, maybe i can finally get back to painting my BT minis. Can't use primer inside (and i haven't found paint-on primer), and it has been too cold or rainy or whatever to do that on the balcony. Finnish winters...
Also the reason i won't be spending MUCH on other stuff.
Speaking of paints, i need to check weather forecasts, maybe i can finally get back to painting my BT minis. Can't use primer inside (and i haven't found paint-on primer), and it has been too cold or rainy or whatever to do that on the balcony. Finnish winters...
SillyEskimo
Member
Haha, yup! When a warm day hits, I batch everything I may be painting in the forseeable future.
Were just starting a short warm spell so I can finally get some priming and varnishing in.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I was using Krylon spray actually. Still a difference or @_@
One thing i don't get how miniature game designers seem to think people have square meter or more space available for games.
Read that X-wing and Armada Core take 3feetx3feet, and i started looking around where the heck do i find a square meter of free space. Unless i count living room floor, there ain't. And playing on floor has several practical issues...
Oh, well, the next time i move, i'll square meter table or larger and space for that will be a requirement.
Read that X-wing and Armada Core take 3feetx3feet, and i started looking around where the heck do i find a square meter of free space. Unless i count living room floor, there ain't. And playing on floor has several practical issues...
Oh, well, the next time i move, i'll square meter table or larger and space for that will be a requirement.
Well, this is concerning. Fighter Squadron expansions for Star Wars Armada don't seem to be available here. No store seems to have them in stock at the moment. EDIT Some other ships seem to be poorly available as well.
No, i wouldn't need them now. Or even soon necessarily. But in the future... Not keen on jumping any game with support issues.
Gaming stores probably can get them from order but still lack of at-will availability is concerning.
X-wing isn't suffering from the same really.
Probably overthinking it though.
EDIT And by overthinking, i really mean it. I mean, i play BattleTech for god's sake... Guess how available it is.
No, i wouldn't need them now. Or even soon necessarily. But in the future... Not keen on jumping any game with support issues.
Gaming stores probably can get them from order but still lack of at-will availability is concerning.
X-wing isn't suffering from the same really.
Probably overthinking it though.
EDIT And by overthinking, i really mean it. I mean, i play BattleTech for god's sake... Guess how available it is.
The store I play at right now has those white fold out tables. In order to play X-Wing or really any miniatures game we have to put down a sheet of plywood over the tables. Need a lot of room for these hobbies.
BattleMonkey
Member
Armada doesn't sell as good as X-Wing, so most stores likely don't care about restocking as readily, but they should be able to get you anything you want, none of the ships are OOP
manfestival
Member
I hear from many that infinity is the best skirmish game on the market. I want to try it but nobody around here in like 3 stores I go to plays it. What do?
I was curious about Infinity so I picked up a starter set but then... those minis are bonkers-small and I just couldn't get up the motivation to try and paint them. Then I grabbed a rulebook and realized my brain doesn't have enough room to hold two minis games at once.
I remember thinking "oh that's clever" a couple times while reading through the rules so uhh maybe it's good?
I remember thinking "oh that's clever" a couple times while reading through the rules so uhh maybe it's good?
Flying Toaster
Member
Nothing is OOP yet. I am one of the oddballs that absolutely loves armada.
Ended up buying X-wing (TFA core set) in the end. Price was a major consideration, especially since i found the core set for 35 from one place (normal price about 45 here). Armada is 90 or more.
Play area and time were also considerations really, plus lower prices for X-wing expansions are more palatable, though admittedly long-term costs may get higher. Not expecting to be getting large fleet of ships though, i'll pick carefully. Though if my friend gets hooked to this game (very likely, he is a big, big SW fan), i can probably focus on one faction. This all provided i will find the game fun, though on paper it looks really neat.
Err, a moral question, is it evil to hook up a friend to something that may be addictive for them?
Armada is also missing several ships i really like and i have doubts they'll ever get added. Namely Secutor-class Star Destroyer, Lancer-class frigate (why did they make up that Raider-class when the Lancer was an option?), along with others.
And X-wing has sequel trilogy ships as well...
Play area and time were also considerations really, plus lower prices for X-wing expansions are more palatable, though admittedly long-term costs may get higher. Not expecting to be getting large fleet of ships though, i'll pick carefully. Though if my friend gets hooked to this game (very likely, he is a big, big SW fan), i can probably focus on one faction. This all provided i will find the game fun, though on paper it looks really neat.
Err, a moral question, is it evil to hook up a friend to something that may be addictive for them?
Armada is also missing several ships i really like and i have doubts they'll ever get added. Namely Secutor-class Star Destroyer, Lancer-class frigate (why did they make up that Raider-class when the Lancer was an option?), along with others.
And X-wing has sequel trilogy ships as well...
I can't speak directly about Infinity, but I'm in the middle of getting a new community started for a different mini game.
To get players interested in the game, you're going to need two painted lists so you can run demos, along with a nice looking table/terrain. You also need to know the rules very well so you can easily teach them without having to look things up.
After that, you need some store support. If they don't stock Infinity, try to convince them to get in a few "starters" or whatever they would be in Infinity. Also put together a nice graphic and post in their facebook groups that you'll be running demos on X day at X time.
Infinity themselves may offer support as well. There may be some kind of ambassador in your area that is specifically enabled to run demos and events.
SillyEskimo
Member
1 Dog down, 5 to go.
I've been pretty busy with video games the past few weeks, but mini painting is always at the forefront of my mind. If I can get another dog or two completed, including bases, then I will consider this a successful weekend as far as this hobby is concerned.
I've been pretty busy with video games the past few weeks, but mini painting is always at the forefront of my mind. If I can get another dog or two completed, including bases, then I will consider this a successful weekend as far as this hobby is concerned.
StaffyManasse
Member
1 Dog down, 5 to go.
I've been pretty busy with video games the past few weeks, but mini painting is always at the forefront of my mind. If I can get another dog or two completed, including bases, then I will consider this a successful weekend as far as this hobby is concerned.
That's a good boy! I mean, a nice looking mini.
I've been pretty busy with my own little miniature guy.
Android18a
Member
After a couple of weeks of no painting (mostly due to Zelda-related reasons) I'm back on the hobby wagon with these first five Vanguard-Hunters.
StaffyManasse
Member
After a couple of weeks of no painting (mostly due to Zelda-related reasons) I'm back on the hobby wagon with these first five Vanguard-Hunters.
They look cool as always, but I can't get past the bolt guns.
Played the, uh, tutorial mode from X-wing with my brother, twice. Very neat game really. Simple basics yet there's clearly a promise of depth, provided one is willing to do some collecting.
My brother seemed to like it too, though i don't expect him to start collecting, so i reckon i'll need to get both Imperial and Rebel ships. Oh, well, i like both factions really, TIEs and Rebel, umm, alphabet ships are iconic.
One peg snapped though, kinda shit plastic is used for those, though i seem to recall hearing that transparent plastic is often weaker than opaque one. A bit of superglue will fix that, i think.
I don't think i'll paint these though, got enough to work with my BT minis. Besides, they're painted well as it is.
My brother seemed to like it too, though i don't expect him to start collecting, so i reckon i'll need to get both Imperial and Rebel ships. Oh, well, i like both factions really, TIEs and Rebel, umm, alphabet ships are iconic.
One peg snapped though, kinda shit plastic is used for those, though i seem to recall hearing that transparent plastic is often weaker than opaque one. A bit of superglue will fix that, i think.
I don't think i'll paint these though, got enough to work with my BT minis. Besides, they're painted well as it is.
BattleMonkey
Member
Haven't had any pegs break, once you learn how the slide together and how to handle them. Only break I've had was on a b-wing slot as I pushed it in slightly at an angle by accident.
Game is excellent, simply but with alot of tactical decisions. Also the ship customization that comes from other sets makes huge difference, but also kind of the pain in the ass part. A unique upgrade you want to use for one ship, is packed with a ship you might not want. I typically buy at least one of every ship at least though, with the good stuff I like I buy a whole wing of fighters. I try not to invest in the huge ships though, but again its annoying that they do pack in some cards in those sets as well that can be useful for other ships in the game.
Game is excellent, simply but with alot of tactical decisions. Also the ship customization that comes from other sets makes huge difference, but also kind of the pain in the ass part. A unique upgrade you want to use for one ship, is packed with a ship you might not want. I typically buy at least one of every ship at least though, with the good stuff I like I buy a whole wing of fighters. I try not to invest in the huge ships though, but again its annoying that they do pack in some cards in those sets as well that can be useful for other ships in the game.
Slight accidental twist while holding it made a piece break away at the bottom (it was the upper peg). Could have been a flawed piece in the first place, there's quite large air bubble inside.
manfestival
Member
What's the entry cost and overall cost of playing x wing?