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Mizzou vigil goes horribly wrong after speaker makes it about race
- Thread starter Calderc
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Mammoth Jones
Member
There's a time and a place and that wasn't either of em.
Yeah, those damn hecklers. Who do they think they are, reminding the speaker that they're there attending a vigil to mourn the loss of so many innocent lives? There's plenty of time for that after they hear about how horrible they are for being born white.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
How incredibly selfish of her. Obviously racism is disgusting, but you're shaming the wrong people.
They made it just as much about themselves as the speaker did.
The speaker gets points though because they are presumably involved with organizing it in the first place. Meanwhile the hecklers just indignantly stomped out of a vigil because their sensibilities were hurt.
I don't know if the guys seen walking away in the video were them, but the report Cyan posted does mention that at least one of the people who walked away had lived in Orlando, had visited the nightclub, and knew regulars. (edit: said OP originally, realized I meant Cyan's post)
I think they had a right to be upset. They knew people who were there. They were at a vigil for those who were hurt and killed.
So yeah, maybe their feelings were hurt. I'd say they had a right to feel hurt.
Pretty shitty of that speaker to suggest that people who appeared to show solidarity and mourn the lives lost in Orlando are somehow a threat to her due to her/their color. Give me a break. I thought "context matters."
No, they didn't. If they had just randomly yelled out in the middle of the vigil, unprovoked, you would have a point. That's not what happened.
Her actions were offensive, probably doubly so to the two gay men who are feeling the fall out from this massacre the most. They're not obligated to stay there and put up with her shit.
Not saying they didn't have a right to feel hurt, I'm just making a value judgement on what I found more tasteless. Tact aside how they all feel are rightfully justified. This is a tragedy afterall. And although I do think that interesectionality is an issue I don't think what either of them did is very productive other than raising visibility on how certain people feel.
And BriGuy you know how I feel and I know how you feel. I don't see how discussing it further is productive here. I disagree - as is my right in regards to my ranking in the taste-o-meter.
This is MU, we should remember. I'm half surprised that the speaker didn't call out "Can I get some muscle over here" and forcibly remove any white vigil attendees.
There's nothing progressive about what the speaker did.
She told her audience what they were feeling and thinking though. She said her audience were all a bunch of racists who were only here to morn for the white victims. Who wouldn't feel upset about that? Denying that out load and straight up leaving such an event is a natural reaction.
Vigils come with expected conventions and norms. It is a place where people can come together and mourn as a community for the victims. She completely shattered that by telling her audience that they are a bunch of racists. Right there, the whole purpose of the vigil was ruined for some/many of the people there - that togetherness of expressing grief and mourning as a community. The people who left likely felt that they could mourn and grieve for the victims someplace else or alone, and at a time and place where they werent told that they were piees of shit and implied that they were not wanted.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Not surprised by the response.
I think POC LGBTs are in serious need of support, and in many cases, that goes by deaf ears from white LGBTs and straight POCs alike, nevermind everyone else.
Nobody wants to hear that at a vigil, but frankly, they clearly never wanted to hear it if she had to bring it up right then and there.
Hard to make the crowd's feelings take priority when people like you are dying like this.
I would have chosen a later time, a different place, but one thing is for damn sure: she would have been ignored doing just that. Per usual.
I think POC LGBTs are in serious need of support, and in many cases, that goes by deaf ears from white LGBTs and straight POCs alike, nevermind everyone else.
Nobody wants to hear that at a vigil, but frankly, they clearly never wanted to hear it if she had to bring it up right then and there.
Hard to make the crowd's feelings take priority when people like you are dying like this.
I would have chosen a later time, a different place, but one thing is for damn sure: she would have been ignored doing just that. Per usual.
SecretMoblin
Member
It was a vigil to mourn and celebrate the lives of QPOC. It wasn't a white pride rally.
Neato_Jinkins
Banned
to think people can be oppressed into being tactless and self serving
17 Seconds
Banned
what a fucking idiot.
VexMythoclast
Banned
Pictures of the crowd while the girl was speaking
http://imgur.com/0rF25mF
What a travesty, to do this when people came together to mourn a tragedy.
http://imgur.com/0rF25mF
What a travesty, to do this when people came together to mourn a tragedy.
God Dayumm
Banned
All 49 victims have been mourned, not just the white ones. The fact that most were Latino has not been emphasized in the media because, out of political correctness, they don't want to unveil that ISIS sympathizers are not only homophobic but also racist as fuck. This lowkey deflection from her is very suspect
17 Seconds
Banned
she wasn't trying to do anything other than insult the people there, plain and simple. all i heard was hate.
The Faceless Master
Member
the best time is always when nobody is around to listen
any other time may inconvenience anyone within earshot
17 Seconds
Banned
yeah, because there's no in between, right?
VexMythoclast
Banned
I don't understand how you condone what she did by using that logic.....
17 Seconds
Banned
she basically just got on stage and told everyone to go fuck themselves. good approach.
Why are people saying this was her one chance to have a captive audience?
The moment the words came out her mouth was the moment people stopped listening to her and stopped respecting her.
Not all events can be about all things. And making the death of 50 people all about you is dumb.
The moment the words came out her mouth was the moment people stopped listening to her and stopped respecting her.
Not all events can be about all things. And making the death of 50 people all about you is dumb.
The Faceless Master
Member
i condone what she did because i watched the video and felt sorry for her.
the logic about waiting for the right time is just a lesson learned from experience that it's never the right time to talk about certain topics.
+1. Tact has delivered the world we are currently in. All the guidelines of "how to do things by my standards from the couch," have been followed. Yet. Still the same identical outcome.
It would be the same dismissal if she had an event specifically for her message. As we've seen. Never a good time.
This country gives no shits about the lgbt community. As we see with bathroom bans and everyone trying their best to squirm out of acknowledging same sex marriage. A lot of frustration out there as many have followed the official guidelines. And yet.. little progress. Always a finger wag.
It's never the right time.
She should go down to Orlando and deliver her message at some of the funerals. An even bigger audience down there.
I think there's a philosophical median where you're absolutely right, but in practical terms, she goofed. Her words were poorly chosen, her point badly made and the giant blowback and negativity she's brought on herself and the event, have NOT made people have any kind of meaningful conversation. Here's what's objectively happening on social media:
1. Racists and homophobes are using this as proof that the Gays (tm) and the Coloreds (tm) are all unreasonable to the point of churlishness and cannot be taken seriously.
2. Progressives and average people think she's an asshat.
3. LGBT folks are incensed at her insensitivity.
4. Even a bunch of BLM folks are irritated at her goalpost centralization.
In short, she objectively did harm to the very point she was trying to make because she made a shitty egotistical and tactically askew decision.
And her mode of presentation made it not about any kind of philosophical point or movement and absolutely about her radical cred.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Someone should have cut the mic.
The issues she's discussing won't be realistically vetted by the american public no matter what she, or anyone else does. Some issues are always dismissed. It has been via eloquent speakers, or evidence of issues. It's a non issue for a significant % of america. Has been for quite a while. More people will complain about this, than participate in a reversal of institutional problems here. I mean I get it. No dog in the fight for a lot of folks. This is one of those issues that shouldn't need victims to grab attention of others. Yet, here we are.
No one has been persuasive. As this message shouldn't have to be "sold" to america. It's been packaged in all different ways. Identical outcome from all messengers. Various angles and approaches all end in the same way. It's been a few 100 years of messaging in every way imaginable. The only response is a parental one. Every time.
Remember. We live in a post racial society. Things get to a stupid point, which this is. But there are issues constantly ignored that grow frustration in individuals exhausted of trying.
The country has failed already if people still need to be persuaded of the problems here. I can see issues from over seas and know they are wrong. It just doesn't happen here. People have to be 'sold' on messaging of racism.
Yes this method doesn't work. Neither does any other method for this specific message. So how do you convince a nation crippled by racism and has a current candidate running on racism, that it's a problem?
metalslimer
Member
You can talk about the race issues without shitting on the people there to grieve
Conor_Fool
Banned
She should be ashamed of herself. Good god that was hard to watch
If we're resorting to such hyperbole, I suppose she should take her heart and mind-touching message and Westboro tactics to the funerals in Orlando.
Who displayed racism?
ThisGuy
Member
I'm gonna go out on a limb and believe some people feel that way because her reasoning was due to skin color.
Or maybe the posters upset people are just now showing up for Latino causes?
I dunno, could go either way?
Brian_FETO
Banned
What is your argument? "People won't listen regardless, so may as well bring it up in a really shitty way that will only hurt your message"
If you're giving a vigil I feel like you could fairly easily discuss "hate" as a whole and try to make a larger point about it. Even something like "hey, we appreciate your support but hate extends beyond the issues of LGBT. There are others who need your support as well"
Instead they decided to insult the attendees and turn it into a condescending "gotcha!"
I sympathize with the notion that "there's never a right time", but this isn't just social disruption. It's ignorant.
I agree. But it's never 'the right time.'it doesn't help the situation. But neither has anything else. So it's no loss to me.
Bad form surely. But good form isn't received either.
It's not an argument. It's the reality in the usa. It all stems from the same root issues here that are flatly ignored. I think that has to be taken into consideration. I'm not an idiot. This is a shitty situation. And she will more than likely regret it.
Nothing 'hurts' messaging that isn't being listened to full stop. No matter the messenger. One can't go negative marginalized.
We have 50 people, mostly gay men, massacred as a direct result of internalized male homophobia.
And she, someone who is neither gay, nor male, takes it upon herself to declare that the real issue is something else entirely. In the span of two minutes, she makes it absolutely clear that she has no actual interest in the issues facing gay men, and that she only seeks to use this as a springboard for things that she's personally invested/interested in.
This shit isn't ok when it's white people going #alllivesmatter and try to change the subject, and it's not ok here.
And she, someone who is neither gay, nor male, takes it upon herself to declare that the real issue is something else entirely. In the span of two minutes, she makes it absolutely clear that she has no actual interest in the issues facing gay men, and that she only seeks to use this as a springboard for things that she's personally invested/interested in.
This shit isn't ok when it's white people going #alllivesmatter and try to change the subject, and it's not ok here.
Tallshortman
Member
She's preaching to a LGTB vigil crowd that are probably progressive or moderate on social issues just because they're white? That's extremely stupid and sounds like someone judging others for their skin color. How does she know those people haven't focused on racial issues?
God Dayumm
Banned
Not only that, she didn't bring up any specific race issue in the LGBT community that preoccupies her. She was just rambling about "muh co-opting" and "muh allies". Just there to virtue signal and zero meaning to her words. I'm not one for tact, people can speak up at the most inappropriate moment for all i care, but I am one for coherence, and this waste had neither.
The Faceless Master
Member
anyone who stopped listening then never respected her in the first place.
Well she blanket accused all white people of being clueless about [and it gets fuzzy here, because her actual point was egotistical and incoherent] matters of racial something.
If you said that all black people could not understand [insert anything here] then it would be racist. Now I'm fully aware that it's a historically asymmetrical politic, but her thundering lack of nuance actually did make it racist.
why should they respect her when she doesnt respect them?
It's also entirely possible that, having been gay in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, the older men in the video endured more oppression than she's faced in her 19 years on the planet -- more than half of those being in an era where the majority of Americans express support for gay rights and marriage.
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