The Faceless Master
Member
i wouldn't go that far, but i don't see the OP video as being too far.
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Mizzou vigil goes horribly wrong after speaker makes it about race
- Thread starter Calderc
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i wouldn't go that far, but i don't see the OP video as being too far.
Well as long as you're not bothered by it, then fuck the mourners, right? Their reasons for being there were clearly illegitimate, as she claimed, since they were just a bunch of white fags. Who are they trying to kid? Bunch of glory hogs just there to pat themselves on the back.
Now her intentions? Clearly they were to bring light to her cause and not just draw attention to herself out of some sick ego-maniacal purpose.
I was really nervous to get up here because theres a lot of white people in the crowd. And that wasnt a joke..
It is like, who are you really here for? she said.
How can you not respect that.
The Faceless Master
Member
they shouldn't. they have no reason to. it doesn't benefit them at all. and that's a big part of the problem!
Lol. Anyone can easily go from, 'Here's a young gay person of color; someone like us, someone like those who were massacred in Orlando" to "Wait, why is she saying shes afraid because there are white people attending the vigil? That doesn't make much sense and isn't appropriate here.' And it would be the same if a gay man stepped to the mic and said, 'I'm afraid. There are so many straight people here.' For someone who insists others aren't listening, your rationalizations suggest it's you who has his fingers in his ears.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Maybe throw in some information about carbon emissions. Just turn those funerals into public forums.
There was a mass murder of gay people who the gay community is now trying to mourn. Going up to them and saying "Your intentions are insincere" is fucking gross.
This seriously makes me sick.
White LGBT members will talk about straight people, as if they don't understand what they go through, which is true. At the same time, white members of the LGBT community do not understand the intersection of race and how it's interlinked with being LGBT, the mindset can be very similar to straight people.
White LGBT members are making a call to make sure this is known as a gay hate crime, but race isn't mentioned, the majority of patrons at Pulse, especially on that night were mostly Latinx, Afro-Latinx, and African American, refusal to acknowledge those demographics makes you sound like straight people who consider the attack just a human issue.
Speaking personally as a member of the LGBT community (I'm Black) I absolutely will not go to predominately white spaces because they're full of racism. If now isn't the time to talk about the intersection of race, when is going to happen? When you look at the mortality rate of those who are PoC and LGBT their mortality rate is a lot higher than white members. That's due things like poverty, but on top of that systematic racism, and racism that comes from your own so called community adds another weight.
We literally have to create things like Latinx gay pride and Black gay pride because of racism. I could talk a lot about this.
I do not like the thread title though. It absolutely is about race. The title completely separates PoC who are part of the community.
White LGBT members are making a call to make sure this is known as a gay hate crime, but race isn't mentioned, the majority of patrons at Pulse, especially on that night were mostly Latinx, Afro-Latinx, and African American, refusal to acknowledge those demographics makes you sound like straight people who consider the attack just a human issue.
Speaking personally as a member of the LGBT community (I'm Black) I absolutely will not go to predominately white spaces because they're full of racism. If now isn't the time to talk about the intersection of race, when is going to happen? When you look at the mortality rate of those who are PoC and LGBT their mortality rate is a lot higher than white members. That's due things like poverty, but on top of that systematic racism, and racism that comes from your own so called community adds another weight.
We literally have to create things like Latinx gay pride and Black gay pride because of racism. I could talk a lot about this.
I do not like the thread title though. It absolutely is about race. The title completely separates PoC who are part of the community.
That's some nice spin.
Do you respect people who are disrespectful to you? Do you respect people who assume you are a racist and don't care about LGBT minorities even though you might based on your skin color? Why are you are you assuming that everyone there doesnt care? Why is the speaker? For all she knew, those people did care and were knowledgeable.
Just because the people don't respect her doesnt mean that they don't care about LGBT minority issues. And for those who werent aware, about the worst way to get them informed and to care is to insult them and call them an ignorant racist.
That tells me that she likely cares more about her ideology and feeling superior than actually changing anything. Either that, or she is just too stupid to realize that insulting people is not a good way to get more people to her side.
Yeah i know how you feel.
So you're saying there's some indication that the terrorist took race into account and that it wasn't his now documented hatred of gays (and possibly his own homosexuality)? I've only followed the story on NPR and Wapo so perhaps you can share some sources? Was he a white supremacist?
Is there evidence that the attack was motivated by race though? Everything I've seen just points to homophobia.
I think it was definitely rooted in homophobia.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
No, he spared black people because he said 'they had suffered enough'
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-survivor-patience-carter-gunman-tried-to-spare-black-people/
I didn't say fuck the mourners. Nor did I say I respect her. I specifically responded to her inability to sell a message. Which shouldn't need to be sold to begin with. Or be brought to light, or any of those pop phrases.
It's no loss, as many have tried from all walks of life to continually be marginalized. I've already said it's bad form. But I will not pretend that the message is received when its presented with more tact. I've also said she will probably regret this as well. It's unfortunate as our two groups need to unite imo. As we all share the same burden in the usa. But it's no damage in my eyes, in my opinion, because the message is always ignored.
I'm sad for the victims. And I'm sick of this. The lgbtq community is consistently fucked over, as others are. Don't confuse me for someone that is endorsing a 19 year old who probably hasn't even seen roots. But the message she attempted, is always ignored in the usa. No matter the messenger, the word use, eloquence, or attire. Our country has severe problems with racism/homophobia/general bigotry, and It is boiling over due to being dismissed. People are getting stupid with frustration.
I'm more upset that a person has ruined a memorial, than I am about the damage to the messaging. I understand the frustration that results in these feelings though. It is a shame.
Or when it's not a group in mourning. Do you think it'd be wise to organize a memorial or funeral and when people show up to mourn you start telling them off? There are plenty of times to have that discussion but this vigil was not one of them.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
Thank you for this post
Fantastical
Death Prophet
This is bullshit. You can absolutely agree with someone while also strongly disagreeing with their tactics.
Ok then, I think I was just misinterpreting what you were saying. Sorry about that.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with bringing up the issue, and even doing so at the vigil could have worked had she taken a better approach. Perhaps I am naive, but I believe she could have even received a very positive response had she just removed the insults. However, as it stands all I see some woman using this opportunity as some twisted open-mic-night routine to satiate her ego.
And yeah, I put myself in the shoes of the mourners and my blood just starts to boil.
Aztechnology
Member
Nono, we deal in in absolutes here. You either support something %100 or you never cared.
17 Seconds
Banned
Oh come on, comparing this to other times people have said "it's not the right time" is a joke. 50 people got massacred and the people there are lending support. This isn't a situation of people putting off the issue. This just really isn't the fucking time to do that.
That absolutely sucks that you experience that, but the crime was not motivated by race. Their deaths did not happen because of race. They are a largely Latin group of victims, but I have seen nothing that indicates they were targeted by race, only by virtue of being the location they were in, a gay space. So yeah, bringing up racism the way she did is going to get people offside.
From the Latin nights I've been to, it's less about being Latin and more because of the music that's gonna be played.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
My alma mater is in the news again!
I'm surprised concerned student 1950 didn't try and make the vigil a safe space!
I'm surprised concerned student 1950 didn't try and make the vigil a safe space!
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You don't call into question people coming to a vigil that are there in good faith. It might be different if someone shows up that might have been connected with the death or causing problems, but that wasn't happening here.
"Who are you really here for?"
Is some tasteless shit that doesn't belong at a time of mourning.
"Who are you really here for?"
Is some tasteless shit that doesn't belong at a time of mourning.
Bel Marduk
Banned
The majority of the people killed at Pulse were Latino.
It was fucking Latin night.
What exactly is this woman trying to say?
It was fucking Latin night.
What exactly is this woman trying to say?
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Exactly what I was thinking. Why is a vigil dedicated to mourning victims that were largely a racial minority the place to accuse people of not paying attention to non-white members of LGBT?
She's right in that we tend to get the short end of the stick, but the optics at display here are abysmal.
Did you even watch the video?
You're white, you don't care. I'm uncomfortable because there's a lot of white people here. You don't understand. Why are you even here?
There's a video linked at the original source. Even if you don't believe the article there's a video.
The Jackdog
Member
"im tired of talking about race everything something happens in this country"
::talks about race::
::talks about race::
She's not brave. Her supporters aren't brave. In fact, what she said was racist.
People were there to pay tribute and mourn the loss of a minority community within a minority community. She said she was nervous getting on the stage. What did she have to be nervous about? Absolutely nothing.
People were there to pay tribute and mourn the loss of a minority community within a minority community. She said she was nervous getting on the stage. What did she have to be nervous about? Absolutely nothing.
Gotdatmoney
Member
A Vigil really aint the place to be doing anything other than mourning. I don't really see the point of trying to bring race into this when there isn't a discussion happening.
99% of the time I dont give a shit about the "right time" when people want to talk about race but this is the 1%. Quite literally, no one is trying to talk about the implications of social issues at a vigil.
99% of the time I dont give a shit about the "right time" when people want to talk about race but this is the 1%. Quite literally, no one is trying to talk about the implications of social issues at a vigil.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
People literally mentioned this below his post. He was right to call attention to wanting a better source. Some of us aren't in a place to a video at all times which is why having an article written with the least amount of bias is preferable.
Only one minute in, but my mouth is dropped the entire time. This is NOT the time or place to be making these comments in this way.. how fucking disrespectful. She was super condescending from the very very first fucking line. Wow... Edit: Not saying she doesn't have a point, but she could have made a speech without being a complete ass from the jump and still paid respect to the victims. This is not how you make a change.
Sorry for saying this, but posts like this make me sick. This tragedy that struck the LBGT community affects everyone. Every race. The implication that white gay people don't really care about the latinos that died is so despicable.
Can we please stop acting like every white person is racist?
Lord Fagan
Junior Member
I live in Columbia, and after this and the protests last year, I can tell you this is very much a side effect of the demographics of this part of Missouri.
This city has roughly 30,000 students out of a population of about 100,000. A vast majority of those enrolled are not from here, they come from all over the world. However, the city is over 80% white, and let's not sugarcoat it, there's an ugly history of racism in the state, period.
Those facts being what they are, I can understand everything in this story, and why it happened. I don't condone it, but I also don't condemn it. A lot of minorities feel like outsiders here (most of the student minorities actually are outsiders), but it's important to acknowledge that Columbia is a central Missouri enclave of a liberal bent surrounded by super conservative rural counties. The people who reside here, especially the faculty who work at the University and other colleges here, do so PRECISELY because it's not as conservative. So yeah, it feels awful when you're lumped into a historical and cultural shitpile of the last century by youth who probably won't give our fair city a second thought when they graduate and leave.
It makes white people here feel terrible, we know it's a terrible look, but the simple reality is that sometimes there's just no convincing some folks with an axe to grind that you care and are on their side, especially when a mostly white city is brow beaten for showing up to grieve for a predominantly Hispanic community. If people didn't care, they wouldn't have shown up.
I don't think this undergrad is wrong for having these views, and for discussing them publicly, but she was grandstanding at a vigil, and that only undercuts the legitimacy of her arguments. There are other times and places available to address them.
This city has roughly 30,000 students out of a population of about 100,000. A vast majority of those enrolled are not from here, they come from all over the world. However, the city is over 80% white, and let's not sugarcoat it, there's an ugly history of racism in the state, period.
Those facts being what they are, I can understand everything in this story, and why it happened. I don't condone it, but I also don't condemn it. A lot of minorities feel like outsiders here (most of the student minorities actually are outsiders), but it's important to acknowledge that Columbia is a central Missouri enclave of a liberal bent surrounded by super conservative rural counties. The people who reside here, especially the faculty who work at the University and other colleges here, do so PRECISELY because it's not as conservative. So yeah, it feels awful when you're lumped into a historical and cultural shitpile of the last century by youth who probably won't give our fair city a second thought when they graduate and leave.
It makes white people here feel terrible, we know it's a terrible look, but the simple reality is that sometimes there's just no convincing some folks with an axe to grind that you care and are on their side, especially when a mostly white city is brow beaten for showing up to grieve for a predominantly Hispanic community. If people didn't care, they wouldn't have shown up.
I don't think this undergrad is wrong for having these views, and for discussing them publicly, but she was grandstanding at a vigil, and that only undercuts the legitimacy of her arguments. There are other times and places available to address them.
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