Rock And Roll
Member
Maybe it's a good way to get rid of some single season games to put an end to that debate and get more postseason revenue.
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MLB 2020 (Off-season/Spring Training/Regular Season) : Baseball is dull only to dull minds
- Thread starter Musky_Cheese
- Start date
- |OT|
- Status
Maybe it's a good way to get rid of some single season games to put an end to that debate and get more postseason revenue.
GreatnessRD
Member
Man, I don't know whats the deal with every sport trying to add their entire set of clubs to the playoffs. This #2 seed being able to choose their opponent is SUPER STUPID. But I'll laugh at them handpicking their opponent and getting dealt with. But its pitchers and catchers, so I'm automatically hyped and won't allow the stupidity of Manfraud to ruin it!
Rock And Roll
Member
A new report by Ken Rosenthal says Carlos Beltran was the ringleader of the Astros signstealing operation.
This is starting to make a lot more sense as to why Hinch couldn't get them to stop. Brian McCann told Beltran to stop and was ignored, I'm going to guess a few other players tried to put an end to it as well. But when you've got a HOFer as the central guy in the clubhouse behind this kind of behavior, I could see why it continued.
Beltran deserves to be banned from baseball and the hall. Really disappointed, I always had so much respect for that guy.
This is starting to make a lot more sense as to why Hinch couldn't get them to stop. Brian McCann told Beltran to stop and was ignored, I'm going to guess a few other players tried to put an end to it as well. But when you've got a HOFer as the central guy in the clubhouse behind this kind of behavior, I could see why it continued.
Beltran deserves to be banned from baseball and the hall. Really disappointed, I always had so much respect for that guy.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
But who kept it up after he left. I don’t believe it stop until the end of the 2019 season/now.
Rock And Roll
Member
Of course it didn't stop. They kept doing it because they didn't get caught and it gave them a WS. The players kept doing it and I'm sure the front office kept encouraging them.
synchronicity
Member
I'm much more cynical than you - in this situation. I think cheating is rampant across MLB and has been for ages. The kid in me wants to believe otherwise, but I'm just not able.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
I imagine some of the league uses and excel spreadsheet for sign stealing. So when you get a runner on they can possibly look in and steal those signs.
It’s next level when you are using monitors, trash cans, buzzers, or bullpen catchers to signal to batters 1-9 will watching a camera feed zoomed into the catchers dick. That is where the Astros stand alone.
Rock And Roll
Member
What Musky said, the trashtros were in a league of their own with sign stealing. If every other team was doing this nearly as much as Houston, there wouldn't be such a great disparity between their K/BB/AVG totals. Houston was miles ahead of all other teams in that category and its pretty obvious why now.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Exactly even the 2018 Red Sox with Cora didn’t go near as far as the 2017-2019 Astros. No where near.
synchronicity
Member
No, I understand there are degrees - no doubt. I just really wish the competitors of a league I love deeply had some integrity for the competition and some honor and respect for their fellow participants. There's more to life than winning and losing.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
As a Jays fan (who suck lately), anyone want to recap why Red Sox are dumping players? Betts is awesome. OK, Price is overpaid and getting old.
The team has hitting. They just need some good pitchers to go with the bats.
The team has hitting. They just need some good pitchers to go with the bats.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Betts is gone because the return in prospects was better than the pick they’d get if he didn’t resign. And they can go after him next offseason anyway.
They want to reset the luxury tax for 2021
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Rock And Roll
Member
Games start next week I'm so stoked I'll probably have a half chub from now until first pitch
Ron Mexico
Member
This and I'm really suspicious about the next CBA. Gut feeling is the penalties for going into the tax are going to be MUCH more severe.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Got Trevor Bauer thread up https://www.neogaf.com/threads/trevor-bauer-is-pooping-on-mlb-commissioner-rob-manfred.1525503/
Get rid of the increasing tax penalty and just make it 10% every and any year. If the Dodgers want to spend, let them. But paying 50% for a third consecutive year over is bullshit. imo
Rock And Roll
Member
If they're more severe teams are going to spend less and that's not what the players want. Considering how much has been made about under paying contracts the past couple offseasons I think the next CBA will steer clear of having to pay penalties for spending. I haven't seen you around these parts either, so welcome to MLB GAF!
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/blue-jays-catcher-reese-mcguire-arrested.html
I just hope it wasn't the old catchers mitt he was flashing
Ron Mexico
Member
I wouldn't necessarily argue that's the way it should be, but I expect based on these moves that the tax is going to be even more aggressive.
I'm with you about that which is unfortunately why I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever to see a work stoppage come out of this. I think there's still a lot of hard feelings dating all the way back to Fehr if not even earlier and the owners are going to be more hellbent on a "win". Again as you mention with the last couple offseasons being the catalyst for this. RIght or wrong, I think they view Clark as a weak link. To me, he's still the prospect I remember seeing in Trenton.
That being said, what I think might happen and what I'd want to happen are very different beasts.
And thanks for the welcome! I'm a dynasty baseball nerd so this is my prime time of the season.
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
You may be right. I’m just saying I wouldn’t want it that way.
I would rather a simply flat 10% tax on every dollar you spend past the top. And he’ll throw in a tax for every dollar between you and a minimum. Make a floor at $100 million. Spend only 90... 10% tax on the difference.
Ron Mexico
Member
They could also just rebalance the media contract revenue but common sense isn't exactly MLB's strongest suit. Instead we'll get things like more service time fuckery and the like as the rebuttal to all the (escalating) tax complaints.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
So true. Move the mound to the warning track for faster games lol
Hinedorf
Banned
Honest question as a filthy casual, are the Astros good/legit or was their success more a product of their gimmicks. Specifically I ask more about Jose Altuve a guy who had a pretty remarkable story after coming out of nowhere and then suddenly be a household name. Is he going to fall off the map now that the signal calling is off the table? Not like anybody will truly know just curious what the opinion is of baseball diehards.
If there's anything the last 20 years have taught me about cheating in sports it's that any little difference is a huge difference so what's the expectation for the Astros now?
If there's anything the last 20 years have taught me about cheating in sports it's that any little difference is a huge difference so what's the expectation for the Astros now?
Musky_Cheese
Banned
They are good. The cheating gave them a big bump tho. Their Rotation and Bullpen was elite. And their lineup was also.
Same can be said for the Dodgers. And they failed in the Postseason 17-19. Twice in the World Series (17&18) and were eliminated by the Nationals who went on to win the World Series. Yankees have also been good in that same time period with no advancement to the World Series.
So the Astros got a competitive bump to take them past these other teams. The biggest advantage they had however wasn’t hitting, but rather not swinging.
If you know an off speed pitch is coming, say a curveball, and that pitch starts knee high then you know it is almost certainly it isn’t a strike. And that is what the Nationals figured out.
Conventional wisdom says you never intend to throw off speed pitches starting high in the zone, especially late in the count, and especially in high volume. But the Nationals did because the Astros couldn’t assume they were balls.
Here is a great video showing what I mean. Mind you the Nats had prepared to defend against the sign stealing.
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Ron Mexico
Member
The quick and dirty method would be to look at Altuve's home/away splits and compare them to the league averages. He went (Average/On-base/Slugging) .306/.372/.608 at home in '19 and .291/.336/.500 on the road. He also hit for more power at home (which would theoretically make sense if he knew what was coming).
So what does it mean? Altuve would be a damn good baseball player without the extra help (using his road numbers as a baseline). He'd still likely be better at home but not to this degree.
Without having a perfect what-if? I'd say roughly the difference between a perennial all-star and being one of the players of the generation is the difference.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Reading and hearing what we have since this story broke, it seems that the Astros weren’t limited to only home games in regards to sign stealing.
Ron Mexico
Member
Still though from an efficiency standpoint, you'd have a much easier time with the details at home where you can control more of the variables. I mean sign stealing in some form has always been around-- this just took it to another level.
Even if you took Altuve down another peg, it's still Altuve/Torres in some kind of order followed by Merrifield I guess?. 2B isn't exactly a loaded position and I'm not high on Villar having another '19.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Agreed
but check this out https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-much-did-the-astros-really-benefit-from-sign-stealing/
comparing 2016 and 2017
In 2017 the only aspect they were better at home vs Road was... taking pitches out of the zone
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
New rule changes. They are fucking stupid
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/mlb-rule-changes-2020-season.html
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/mlb-rule-changes-2020-season.html
Ron Mexico
Member
Here come the fake injuries to dodge the 3-batter rule and you’ll still see the LOOGY, just now they’ll wait for 2 outs.
They want to shorten the game. I have no issue there. This wasn’t how. Neither is shaving 10 seconds off a review.
They want to shorten the game. I have no issue there. This wasn’t how. Neither is shaving 10 seconds off a review.
Rock And Roll
Member
I don't think there's an answer to shorten the game outside of 1 minute commercial breaks which means less revenue.
They haven't been successful once in their feeble attempts to speed the game up. Just forget it, even if they could make games 20 minutes shorter that's not going to bring in a legion of new fans
They haven't been successful once in their feeble attempts to speed the game up. Just forget it, even if they could make games 20 minutes shorter that's not going to bring in a legion of new fans
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Summary of the Astros press conference are as followed
Owner
Alex
Jose
Owner
Alex
Jose
synchronicity
Member
Baseball is in a tough spot, as much as it pains me to say so. We live in a world with full blown ADD for the most part. Baseball just doesn't fit into that mental space very well. If Baseball wants to remain relevant into the long-term, it has to adjust, but by adjusting to (maybe) acquire new fans, it will likely have to alienate the hard core. Not an enviable spot. This game/league is in a really precarious position in terms of its future sustainability - at least anything resembling its current (well, somewhat recent) glory.
synchronicity
Member
Yeah, even at my age (50), if I know every off speed pitch that is coming, I may very well hit close to .200.
Rock And Roll
Member
I agree with your entire statement. Baseball is not a good fit for the smartphone era. It's too slow and methodical for your average person. Baseball requires a bit of thinking to enjoy/understand it. You look at what Jomboy has been doing and he's breaking things down and adding a bit of analysis in there. It's working great, I think MLB needs to figure out how to take this approach to conveying why this game is so great.
Simple idea; let me score games through At Bat. Having a template on there would be great, easy and would encourage people to pay more attention to what they are watching
synchronicity
Member
Baseball has to be savored, not gulped. You've got to smell it and swish it around in your mouth a bit before swallowing. It's just so at odds with cultural movement in general. Of course it's easy for those of us who grew up loving and playing the game to get it - to enjoy its rhythms and subtleties. I just don't know if it's possible to reach those who don't have such a natural affinity and prolonged exposure from a young age. I think back to the world I grew up in and how baseball fit very nicely into the overall pace of things, and then I look at the present day world, and it just feels like trying to shove a square peg into a round hole type of thing.
Hinedorf
Banned
Curious why you oppose the rules, after looking at them I really don't see that significant of a change other than forcing managers to not be able drag the game out an extra half hour jerking the audience around as they swap out pitchers to get through 1 batter.
Are you opposed to the changes because you oppose the change just for doing so or do you have a gripe on how the game is altered negatively?
Hinedorf
Banned
I see the problem with baseball's speed as one single issue that has persisted after the 90's to an extreme level. For starters the problem with baseball IS THE SPEED OF THE GAME. But it's the speed of the pitchers/batters on the field that are driving the problem.
One word: ENTITLEMENT
Batters: Get in the fucking box and take your hacks, I don't want to see you adjust your fucking batting gloves after every swing. Count how often this type of ritual shit happens for EVERY SINGLE BATTER. This is nothing more than player entitlement holding up the game for whatever personal kink in your head tells you that's what makes you hit the fucking ball.
Everything with baseball originates with a pitcher and better and this is the single experience that has become so drawn out and cumbersome there is absolutely no built tension in the experience. The batter does everything to take every bit of time they can to control the situation and the pitcher does everything he can to control the situation all in the name of gamesmanship and the destruction of the visual product.
I try to rationalize what changed with my beloved 90's baseball. The drugs are still present, the stars are still present, the game only looks different between the pitcher and the batter.
synchronicity
Member
I don't have a problem with the pace of play personally. It's a game of rhythm/timing and disruption of that rhythm/timing. I know many find it boring, but I don't mind the leisurely approach to things. What's the rush?
Rock And Roll
Member
This won't magically shave 30 minutes off a game. The whole "managers going to the bullpen is slowing down the game" is a bunch of bunk. Let's just pretend it's a normal game (pitcher goes 6, bullpen does the rest). Even if both managers pulled each of those bullpen pitchers out after 1 or 2 outs, that's only an extra 12-14 minutes on top of the game. And that excessive amount of bullpen usage is rare, despite what Manfred and his cronies are trying to tell you.
Rock And Roll
Member
I don't think I've ever seen Bellinger talking to the media but does he usually sway like that? Or is that a part of him being furious at the whole situation?
Musky_Cheese
Banned
R Rock And Roll says it well
The reason its stupid is because it attempts to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
The only time a team is going to constantly change pitchers is when A) a game is close and B) a game is meaningful. Both of them. Nobody in a blow out or down 5 runs in the 8th is still playing match ups. The only time managers are playing match ups is when the score is close. Divisional games and teams overall making a playoff push... and teams up or down a run or 2.
Trimming 10 seconds on teams deciding if they want a replay review? Ok sure. But!!! the bulk of the time wasted on replays isn't in deciding if a team should review... It is the replay itself. So here is how it should be done.
1. The replay team SHOULD be looking at replays as soon as the play happens. DOES NOT matter if it gets challenged or not. Start looking ASAP.
2. Replay team has 60 seconds to look and overturn. If in 60 seconds they can't decide, call stands.
3. Team has 20 seconds to decide to challenge. Replay team is already looking in case of at play
4. Umpire announces to the crowd what is being challenged, goes and puts on headset.
5. Takes head set off and announces if play stands or is overturned.
All in 60 seconds.
The 3 biggest issues with replay are as followed
1. What you can and can not challenge. Basically stolen bases and overall plays at bases, fair or foul, and home runs.
2. The amount of time New York takes to decide to overturn or not.
3. Viewers don't know what is being challenged. They have to assume what is being challenged.
So both of those things solve problems that don't exist.
Do away with
1. Blackouts and overall content restrictions. This is huge! 99% of MLB content is basically behind a paywall! Stop it
2. Let players have personality. Let them have whatever designs they want on cleats, bats, and gloves. If Mike Trout wants to swing a bat with Initial D and the 86 on it (as long as the bat itself is regulation) let him
Get rid of restrictions on watching Games and content. It was always short sighted
Market your Stars. Mike Trout should play in every city every year. Same for Bryce Harper. Same for Astros
The best positional player maybe ever is playing right now for the Angles. And not every team will host him for a game this year. Not even semi annually.
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Rock And Roll
Member
The last time my Giants were in Toronto before last season was 2013. There's no NL team in Canada anymore (Musky ate ours). I shouldn't have to leave the goddamn country to see my team play. I never got to see Bonds play because he only came to Toronto once.
I agree each team should be in town once a year. Showcase the talent of the league and let people come out to see them play. We already have interleague play, making them rotate divisions every 3 years sucks.
I agree each team should be in town once a year. Showcase the talent of the league and let people come out to see them play. We already have interleague play, making them rotate divisions every 3 years sucks.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
My Nats play Miami 20 times. We can trim it down enough so they can host every team for 2 game series at least.
You could play in a season the other 4 teams in your division 14 times for 56 games and devote the other 106 games to the other 25 teams. Even if they are 2 games at home, 2 on the road.
Ron Mexico
Member
There's been some decent realignment examples floating around over the years. I think you could theoretically accomplish both a better rotation and an overall better landscape with some re-thinking to the whole structure.
As much as I'd love to see it, I also don't think we're going to see another Houston or Milwaukee change leagues anytime soon to facilitate it. Maybe if/when there's expansion? Baseball belongs in Montreal. Put the other in Portland or Charlotte or San Antonio or whatever and then rebuild this.
Combine that with really getting a handle on mlb.tv (like that paywall) and there may just be a future yet.
As much as I'd love to see it, I also don't think we're going to see another Houston or Milwaukee change leagues anytime soon to facilitate it. Maybe if/when there's expansion? Baseball belongs in Montreal. Put the other in Portland or Charlotte or San Antonio or whatever and then rebuild this.
Combine that with really getting a handle on mlb.tv (like that paywall) and there may just be a future yet.
Rock And Roll
Member
As great as interleague rivalries are, I'd rather see other teams then watch the same teams go at it repeatedly throughout the season. It could easily be dialed back to have a more diverse schedule Also if you're playing in a weak division at any given moment, beating up on the same rebuilding teams is lame. I'd want my team to face other good clubs so they have to work for wins.
synchronicity
Member
I live in Charlotte, and it's been my dream to get MLB (& MLS) here. We got MLS, now just move Tampa up here! But yeah, I would surely love Montreal to get a team again.
Musky_Cheese
Banned
They have too many teams in the league not trying to win. If it is because of money (Baltimore) perhaps they need to think of moving cash strapped teams to cities that would be more profitable.
However, I disagree with the entire premise that the Orioles suck because of lack of money. If you field good teams, fans and the locals will be interested. But if you are in/near Pittsburgh, whats the rush to get to a game? Whats the rush to get a hat? Why purchase player jerseys when the roster is in such flux?
While Baltimore may never be the market New York is, Camden Yards will be packed if they are making a playoff push/have a competitive team/in the Playoffs.
But in a world where Mookie Betts is traded because Boston wants to rest the Luxury Tax...
greyshark
Member
Stripling: Throwing at Astro hitters 'on my mind'
Dodgers pitcher Ross Stripling said he would consider throwing at Astros hitters "in the right time and in the right place" if he were to face them in the coming season.
Spring training is about to start and the players are getting more and more publicly angry about the Astros. MLB can’t just do nothing and hope this blows over, right?
Musky_Cheese
Banned
Hopefully more speak up even if it’s for more personality lol.Stripling: Throwing at Astro hitters 'on my mind'
Dodgers pitcher Ross Stripling said he would consider throwing at Astros hitters "in the right time and in the right place" if he were to face them in the coming season.www.espn.com
Spring training is about to start and the players are getting more and more publicly angry about the Astros. MLB can’t just do nothing and hope this blows over, right?
Baseball seems to want bland and quiet players. No controversy. And they have for a long time. MLB probably counted on players continuing that trend.
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