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MLB Off-Season 2011: Only a few more weeks until the radio talks about baseball again

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BFIB

BFIB

Member
Cards have left the winter meetings, declining comment.

I don't know why, but I have a feeling the Cards are going to get creative and pull out a huge trade somewhere. Move Berkman to 1st, and make a few splashes to shore up the middle infield for a while.

Have a feeling Beltran will be a Cardinal soon.
 
O

Opiate

Member
eznark said:
They just resigned JRo. To me, that means they still have flexibility despite that contract (which is truly awful in a vacuum). That's why I said it looks less awful today than yesterday.
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Less flexibility than they would have otherwise had. Let's imagine what they could have done with ~12M extra dollars per year. Could they have signed Brian McCann, who will be a free agent next season? What about David Wright?
 
E

eznark

Banned
CajoleJuice said:
Doesn't even particularly bother me anymore because the entire fucking division is better than the Mets. If it weren't the Phillies winning the division every year, it'd be the Braves.
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No dude, I mean I am talking about the Phillies when I say the contract hasn't cost them anything.

Less flexibility than they would have otherwise had. Let's imagine what they could have done with ~12M extra more dollars per year. Could they have signed Brian McCann, who will be a free agent next season?
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Ok, but then we're getting into rather ridiculous assumptions. The contract hasn't stopped them from building the greatest staff in decades and keeping their talent. I think it's atrocious in a vacuum but not awful in practice.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
eznark said:
No dude, I mean I am talking about the Phillies when I say the contract hasn't cost them anything.
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I thought you were just trying to one-word troll me. But I still think you can't say much since the contract HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET (I just like to harp on this).
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
nemss said:
Cards have left the winter meetings, declining comment.

I don't know why, but I have a feeling the Cards are going to get creative and pull out a huge trade somewhere. Move Berkman to 1st, and make a few splashes to shore up the middle infield for a while.

Have a feeling Beltran will be a Cardinal soon.
Click to expand...

I imagine Mozeliak storming out of the Winter Meetings with an Angry Cardinal mascot behind him.
 
C

cashman

Banned
5/75 is an incredibly good deal for CJ. No doubt he took a home town discount for that, because the Marlins surely would have offered something better.
 
E

eznark

Banned
CajoleJuice said:
I thought you were just trying to one-word troll me. But I still think you can't say much since the contract HASN'T EVEN STARTED YET (I just like to harp on this).
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That wasn't the discussion. He asked when we can judge if it's terrible. I'm saying you can't judge it based only on Pujols' performance. If Albert is fucking amazingly wonderful but the Angels have to dump everyone else next year, I'd say the contract is a failure at that point. If he regresses but the team is still adding talent and winning ball games, I think it's unfair to call the contract bad.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
eznark said:
That wasn't the discussion. He asked when we can judge if it's terrible. I'm saying you can't judge it based only on Pujols' performance. If Albert is fucking amazingly wonderful but the Angels have to dump everyone else next year, I'd say the contract is a failure at that point. If he regresses but the team is still adding talent and winning ball games, I think it's unfair to call the contract bad.
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I thought the discussion was Howard now. I agree with your reasoning, which is why I think you'll start seeing the effect of Howard's contract during the actual length of it. We'll see if the Phillies will be able to re-sign Hamels (I like this example better than the ones Opiate was throwing out).
 
O

Opiate

Member
eznark said:
Ok, but then we're getting into rather ridiculous assumptions.
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That doesn't strike me as a ridiculous assumption at all. In fact, the opposite seems true; it's ridiculous to assume that Philadelphia couldn't be even better with an extra 10-12M to spend.

The contract hasn't stopped them from building the greatest staff in decades and keeping their talent. I think it's atrocious in a vacuum but not awful in practice.
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I think what you should argue is that the opportunity cost of every dollar is lower for teams that actually have more dollars. And that is true. The cost is nowhere near zero, but it's certainly lower than the cost is for, say, Tampa Bay.

Individually, a single bad contract is unlikely to sink a team with a lot of money like Philadelphia, or Boston, or New York. It's likely going to take 2-3 really bad contracts, like the Angels currently have with Hunter and Wells, or Boston had this year with Lacke and Crawford. Tampa couldn't come close to affording such mistakes.

Being able to afford a few mistakes does not mean that they aren't mistakes, or that they are suddenly good ideas.
 
C

captmcblack

Member
The Angels got Pujols?

JODIA MI VIDA.

With a quasi-competent offense and the staff they have, it's going to be mid-2000s Angels roachball all over again. Mike Scoscia will look like a good manager too. FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 
E

eznark

Banned
CajoleJuice said:
I thought the discussion was Howard now. I agree with your reasoning, which is why I think you'll start seeing the effect of Howard's contract during the actual length of it. We'll see if the Phillies will be able to re-sign Hamels (I like this example better than the ones Opiate was throwing out).
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Agree 100% (which is why I pointed to Rollins). It's fluid and depends more on how it afffects the actual product the organization puts on the field than the performance of the guy getting paid.
 
W

Windu

never heard about the cat, apparently
You can still say a contract is bad if a team can still field a good team. Of course the angels signing him makes more sense than a team like the royals in terms of finanacial flexibility.

The Howard deal was bad, yes they are still good but that is due to their high payroll. They could be better if that money was used elsewhere though.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
So not only did Pujols not go to the NL East, he's out of the NL now! YES

And they also signed Wilson? Wow.

But they're making HUGE cash on their new TV deal so they can afford it.
 
Y

yankeeforever2

Member
nemss said:
Pujols has stated numerous times that he has no desire to DH.

Though he also said he wanted to be a Cardinal for life.

So yeah, he'll probably DH.
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He will have a desire to play DH, after 7 years at 1B when turning 38.

A 10 year contract by an AL team is not as bad as it is for a NL team.
 
V

verbum

Member
KoruptData said:
People don't want to talk common sense yet, its too early.
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Per the USA Today sports story, the Angels get $50 million a year from Fox for local broadcasting rights. The contract is up for renewal in 2015. His reasoning is that the new GM of the Angels is hoping to use Pujols and others to increase that and maybe that difference would pay for Pujols.
 
H

h3ro

Member
Aw shit now we have to deal with that guy?

Also, dumb contract etc etc.

At least the Marlins knew what they were doing by refusing to put a No-Trade clause in the offer to Pujols. They wanted to show off their new toy in the new park for 4 years then dump him in the firesale they pull every decade.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
Opiate said:
Who has it stopped them from gaining, though? If they had signed Howard to, let's say, a 12 Million / Annum deal, what 13M / Annum player could they have gotten in addition to that?
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There is no hard cap in baseball, so the Pujols deal (while I agree is bad) doesn't preclude the Angels from signing anyone else if the owner wants to throw money around.

Happy to see him out of the central. With Fielder gone too the Cubs can rebound sooner rather than later!
 
V

verbum

Member
If the Braves are considering trading Jurrjens; with Wilson gone, Jurrgens just became hot property. Anyone have a good SS or power OF?
 
E

eznark

Banned
verbum said:
If the Braves are considering trading Jurrjens; with Wilson gone, Jurrgens just became hot property. Anyone have a good SS or power OF?
Click to expand...

Picture-11.png
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
Everyone says the Marlins would have gotten him had they offered a no-trade clause. Even though their deal was only $220 million, Florida has no state income tax so it turns out to be still more than the Angels deal. Cardinals never budged beyond their 9-year, $210 million deal.

But the Marlins don't do no-trades (the Braves don't either) and stuck with it. Thank god they didn't budge.

You have to think the Marlins will go hard for Prince Fielder now that they lost on Pujols and Wilson.
 
N

Nobility

Banned
Just found out about Pujols (Thanks NBAGaf)!

Wow, did not see this coming.

He might as well have went to Miami, I think he would get far more latin exposure there. That being said, being close to LA always helps.

As always, AL baseball = best baseball.
 
L

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
Hmm. I wonder if this will increase the number of suitors for Michael Cuddyer. I'd honestly rather he sign somewhere else, the Twins get the picks, and then the Twins turn around and sign Willingham.
 
J

Jon

Member
CajoleJuice said:
But imagine if you were able to get Fielder instead for practically the same deal?
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I know, I know. But it's more like, at least we don't have Ryan for 10 years now...haha. Don't get me wrong, I like Howard, and although he's in drastic decline it's nice to know he'll finish his career with the Phillies. However, had he reached free agency, it might have been an absurd 10 year contract.
 
UltimaKilo

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
AnEternalEnigma said:
Everyone says the Marlins would have gotten him had they offered a no-trade clause. Even though their deal was only $220 million, Florida has no state income tax so it turns out to be still more than the Angels deal. Cardinals never budged beyond their 9-year, $210 million deal.

But the Marlins don't do no-trades (the Braves don't either) and stuck with it. Thank god they didn't budge.

You have to think the Marlins will go hard for Prince Fielder now that they lost on Pujols and Wilson.
Click to expand...

I'm happy we didn't offer Pujols the no-trade. For as great of a player that he is, I began to get weary when it went from 9 to 10 years. Rotto just reported that the Marlins are now serious for Prince Fielder... I hope we don't get him. Priority right now should be Cespedes and maybe trading for Gio Gonzalez or James Shields.

We already have Gaby Sanchez, he's an all-star and comes in cheaper than Fielder.
 
C

CajoleJuice

Member
Jon said:
I know, I know. But it's more like, at least we don't have Ryan for 10 years now...haha. Don't get me wrong, I like Howard, and although he's in drastic decline it's nice to know he'll finish his career with the Phillies. However, had he reached free agency, it might have been an absurd 10 year contract.
Click to expand...

No. No it wouldn't have.
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
And the Angels owner Arte Moreno was talking all this shit about remaining patient and not giving out bad deals.

L.o.l.

Pujols gets 10/5 no-trade protection after the first 5 years anyways.
 
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