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MLB Off-season Thread 2015-2016 IOTI Back to the Future was a lie

F

Frozenprince

Banned
Dominican Power said:
Astros were trying to be cute and drafted a pitcher instead. Should of gone with the position player.
Click to expand...

I mean Appel was a good pick, you can't use hindsight to justify these things just like you can't use it to go back and say a trade that was awful at the time ends up being great later, like if Dickey pitched well for the Jays and none of the guys we got back amounted to anything.

Appel is a guy who's best served going to another farm system where they'll hopefully try and fix what the Astro's messed with. My guess, they probably tried and failed to alter his FB mechanics and grips to get more movement on his stuff and when it backfired, they tweaked more and more.

He still has really good upside, when his slider and heat are on at the same time he can be completely dominant. I'm still high on the kid, I think with a good pitching coach he could be a perfect reclamation project.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Sounds like Cardinals aren't interested in a FA outfielder and will run with they have. Fine with that. Team's good enough for a wild card and once youre in the playoffs anything can happen

Rather save the three top 50 picks for the deep draft class
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Mo on local radio shed a little light into the Price/Heyward negotiations. He stated that the front office "had a celebration" at the Cards FO, thinking they landed Price. They then found out from his agent after he in turn, agreed to Boston's deal. Said it "stung" the way it went down, but its part of the game. He then went into the Heyward negotiations and said that they were in constant contact with Heyward's agent, felt they put the best offer on the table, in terms of overall value. It exceeded where they thought the numbers would go to, and it did in fact have an opt out.

Now he's setting up his posturing, stating that he does not feel the FO will look into Davis, that they have "never even had him on the blackboard", and that they feel moving towards a metric based on overall talent, not just one area of the 5 tools should determine the cost of the player. He said that landing Price would not have deterred them from Heyward, and that the Cardinals were planning on landing them both.

So, basically, a total mess of an offseason. They can't force the player to sign, but its evident that the Cards might have misjudged the market a little.
 
C

chicagocubsfan

Member
nemss said:
Mo on local radio shed a little light into the Price/Heyward negotiations. He stated that the front office "had a celebration" at the Cards FO, thinking they landed Price. They then found out from his agent after he in turn, agreed to Boston's deal. Said it "stung" the way it went down, but its part of the game. He then went into the Heyward negotiations and said that they were in constant contact with Heyward's agent, felt they put the best offer on the table, in terms of overall value. It exceeded where they thought the numbers would go to, and it did in fact have an opt out.

Now he's setting up his posturing, stating that he does not feel the FO will look into Davis, that they have "never even had him on the blackboard", and that they feel moving towards a metric based on overall talent, not just one area of the 5 tools should determine the cost of the player. He said that landing Price would not have deterred them from Heyward, and that the Cardinals were planning on landing them both.

So, basically, a total mess of an offseason. They can't force the player to sign, but its evident that the Cards might have misjudged the market a little.
Click to expand...
Somebody shop Theo with that Hamburglar redesign costume.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
nemss said:
Mo on local radio shed a little light into the Price/Heyward negotiations. He stated that the front office "had a celebration" at the Cards FO, thinking they landed Price. They then found out from his agent after he in turn, agreed to Boston's deal. Said it "stung" the way it went down, but its part of the game. He then went into the Heyward negotiations and said that they were in constant contact with Heyward's agent, felt they put the best offer on the table, in terms of overall value. It exceeded where they thought the numbers would go to, and it did in fact have an opt out.

Now he's setting up his posturing, stating that he does not feel the FO will look into Davis, that they have "never even had him on the blackboard", and that they feel moving towards a metric based on overall talent, not just one area of the 5 tools should determine the cost of the player. He said that landing Price would not have deterred them from Heyward, and that the Cardinals were planning on landing them both.

So, basically, a total mess of an offseason. They can't force the player to sign, but its evident that the Cards might have misjudged the market a little.
Click to expand...
It's good he's not making knee jerk signings after missing out on the big FAs.

You've gotta think a quick rebuild/reload of the roster is an option on the table at this point. Unless they really hit on some close to MLB-ready college bats/arms next June.
 
J

JABEE

Member
Will Major League Baseball respect its ban on gambling? DraftKings is gambling. MLB is an investor in DraftKings with an official presence in advertising.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
It's good he's not making knee jerk signings after missing out on the big FAs.

You've gotta think a quick rebuild/reload of the roster is an option on the table at this point. Unless they really hit on some close to MLB-ready college bats/arms next June.
Click to expand...

I dunno, the team as it is now is good enough for a Wild Card. They can rebuild while still competing, which is basically what they've done for the past decade. No need to tear it down, which is something that not a lot of teams can say.

This offseason is really a pretty typical Cardinals offseason, all things considered.

Oscar's death really changed things, though. Future looks a lot different if he were still alive
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
Carpe Libertatem said:
I dunno, the team as it is now is good enough for a Wild Card. They can rebuild while still competing, which is basically what they've done for the past decade.

This offseason is really a pretty typical Cardinals offseason, all things considered.

Oscar's death really changed things, though. Future looks a lot different if he were still alive
Click to expand...
Well, they're not going to alienate the fans with an Astros style teardown. Something close to the 2007-2009 years is what I'm expecting. The core is aging and unless Grichuk/Piscotty turn into core players, there really isn't much on the horizon to form a championship team around from a position player standpoint. Staying pat and refusing to reload is how a team turns into the Phillies.

I'm been thinking for a while now how losing Oscar has been a watershed moment for the organization - and not in a good way.
 
F

Future Foundation

Member
Yeah, there was a note about "restructuring his life" or something, and he hasn't really done that. Still gambling, still gambling ON BASEBALL, and apparently keeping the same connections that got him into trouble in the first place.
 
S

Syph Medwes

Member
Let me preface this by saying I know very little about baseball.

Did Pete Rose do steroids?
If not, why is gambling considered worse than cheating?
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
Well, they're not going to alienate the fans with an Astros style teardown. Something close to the 2007-2009 years is what I'm expecting. The core is aging and unless Grichuk/Piscotty turn into core players, there really isn't much on the horizon to form a championship team around from a position player standpoint. Staying pat and refusing to reload is how a team turns into the Phillies.

I'm been thinking for a while now how losing Oscar has been a watershed moment for the organization - and not in a good way.
Click to expand...

I know a lot are going to blast Mo and DeWitt for not being "aggressive enough", but to offer Price a 7 year contract worth $189 mil, and Heyward north of $200 mil, I think it speaks volumes that the team is willing to spend on players they feel are worth the investment. Its a shame it didn't work out with one, or both players, but the rest of the crop honestly isn't all that promising. You expect more production from Holliday and Adams. Adding Gyroko to the middle infeld is a big help to spell both Peralta and Wong. He has some decent pop in his bat as well, so Matheny should have no qualms about using him late in games, and spelling Peralta on night games with a day game following.

The lineup looks like:

Carp
Piscotty
Holliday
Adams
Grichuk
Peralta
Molina
Wong
P

Its not a feared lineup, but its a deep one.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Syph Medwes said:
Let me preface this by saying I know very little about baseball.

Did Pete Rose do steroids?
If not, why is gambling considered worse than cheating?
Click to expand...

Steroids never threatened the financial well being of baseball, but gambling certainly does, particularly in 1919.

Go watch "Eight Men Out" or check out this History Channel write up.

Gambling is much, much worse than cheating, especially PEDs, which owners and players knew about for decades and did nothing about. PEDs to an extent brought on the resurgence of the game after the 1994 work stoppage.
 
S

Syph Medwes

Member
CosmicQueso said:
Steroids never threatened the financial well being of baseball, but gambling certainly does, particularly in 1919.

Go watch "Eight Men Out" or check out this History Channel write up.
Click to expand...

Perhaps this question will answer itself once I read that article but was baseball still that vulnerable later in the century that gambling is still such a big deal? Or was it the principle of the matter or it being such a historically touchy subject that caused the pushback from the league?

Anyway thanks, gonna read that article now.
 
C

CosmicQueso

Member
Syph Medwes said:
Perhaps this question will answer itself once I read that article but was baseball still that vulnerable later in the century that gambling is still such a big deal? Or was it the principle of the matter or it being such a historically touchy subject that caused the pushback from the league?

Anyway thanks, gonna read that article now.
Click to expand...

If the public loses faith that the game played on the field is on the level, attendance would drop, television interest would drop, money would drop.

If PEDs are taken, home runs go up, averages go up, attendance goes up.

From baseball's perspective, which is all about the money of course, one of these situations is much worse than the other.
 
L

Little Green Yoda

Member
nemss said:
I know a lot are going to blast Mo and DeWitt for not being "aggressive enough", but to offer Price a 7 year contract worth $189 mil, and Heyward north of $200 mil, I think it speaks volumes that the team is willing to spend on players they feel are worth the investment. Its a shame it didn't work out with one, or both players, but the rest of the crop honestly isn't all that promising. You expect more production from Holliday and Adams. Adding Gyroko to the middle infeld is a big help to spell both Peralta and Wong. He has some decent pop in his bat as well, so Matheny should have no qualms about using him late in games, and spelling Peralta on night games with a day game following.

The lineup looks like:

Carp
Piscotty
Holliday
Adams
Grichuk
Peralta
Molina
Wong
P

Its not a feared lineup, but its a deep one.
Click to expand...
It's a lineup full of question marks. Marp is the best player of the bunch and he had that weird, extreme midseason slump. Holliday/Peralta/Molina are all on wrong side of 30 and it wouldn't be surprising to see them miss more time or see production drop off. Wong/Grichuk are super streaky. No idea what to expect from Piscotty once the league gets an extended look at him. Adams has been underwhelming at best, a disappointment at worst.

Need the young players to take steps forward if the team wants to contend. Unless a crazy, out-of-the-box shakeup occurs, we'll just have to roll with what we have and hope an opportunity presents itself.

And the depth isn't really that deep, particularly in the OF. Lost Heyward, Jay, and Bourjos. We're counting on oft-injured Pham to back up the OF. Hopefully, Moss is over his hip thing so he can spell Holliday occasionally. Oh, and we have oft-injured Garcia, a pitcher with an uncommon shoulder stress thing, and two pitchers coming off recent injuries making up the top 4 of our rotation. A fraction of the 2015 injury woes would sink the team pretty quickly.
 
J

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
Just pray Taylor Swift doesn't put out an album next year. Otherwise, we might be looking at another Giants WS win.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Little Green Yoda said:
It's a lineup full of question marks. Marp is the best player of the bunch and he had that weird, extreme midseason slump. Holliday/Peralta/Molina are all on wrong side of 30 and it wouldn't be surprising to see them miss more time or see production drop off. Wong/Grichuk are super streaky. No idea what to expect from Piscotty once the league gets an extended look at him. Adams has been underwhelming at best, a disappointment at worst.

Need the young players to take steps forward if the team wants to contend. Unless a crazy, out-of-the-box shakeup occurs, we'll just have to roll with what we have and hope an opportunity presents itself.

And the depth isn't really that deep, particularly in the OF. Lost Heyward, Jay, and Bourjos. We're counting on oft-injured Pham to back up the OF. Hopefully, Moss is over his hip thing so he can spell Holliday occasionally. Oh, and we have oft-injured Garcia, a pitcher with an uncommon shoulder stress thing, and two pitchers coming off recent injuries making up the top 4 of our rotation. A fraction of the 2015 injury woes would sink the team pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

Even with that slump, Marp hit 28 bombs and led the league in doubles (again), without having a totally unsustainable BABIP like 2013. Not overly concerned about him. Piscotty reminds me of him, actually, in terms of plate approach - so not that worried about him, either.

Grichuk, though, no idea what that dude is gonna do. His ceiling is as high as anyone (plus CF defense, elite power/exit velo), but his floor is pretty low. Maybe he learns how to take a walk

The only thing that makes me feel OK about the Cardinals aging core is that that core really didn't produce (either because of injury or otherwise) in 2015... and that team won 100 games. Last season might've been the worst of what we can expect from that core moving forward, tbh
 
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