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[Tobimacoss]

The chip they have is massive. And more importantly, AMD takes a small margin only on semi-custom silicon with volume guarantees and co-engineering.

That strix point APU on Ally X costs Asus a whopping 298$ to procure. LMAO.

16GB DDR5 is now 250$, so that doesn't help either lol.

Canis is 16 CU. What's stopping MS from doing a 24 CU AT4 console, or a 48 CU AT3 console, in addition to the 68 CU Magnus.

Remember, PC games are designed to scale hardware.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I've been wanting info on Magnus for a long time and this thread finally delivered.
I think I've gotten my fill of what this APU will be capable of.

Remember this and the PS6 will probably be hanging around in the 2040's.
Honestly, they need to be bringing more oomph than what I'm seeing here.

 

[Shogmaster]

Canis is 16 CU. What's stopping MS from doing a 24 CU AT4 console, or a 48 CU AT3 console, in addition to the 68 CU Magnus.

Remember, PC games are designed to scale hardware.

AT4 APU will be used on handheld Windows PCs.

AT3 Madusa Halo will be used extensively with SFF/ Mini PCs. You can install Windows with XBox full screen or Steam OS on that sucker so Mini PC with MHalo will be made by everyone and their mama prolly.

 

[Neo_game]

Thats what they're working on, will be a boon for all pc games. However, devs won't be targeting the specific Magnus spec, which is the downside of this PC approach. I'm looking forward to the real world comparison, but I suspect, since Magnus only has a 25% on paper spec boost on PS6, the actual real world performance difference will be small.

I don't think so. PS6 is 280mm² 160W where as Xbox Hybrid is 408 mm² with 250W according to leaks. That is a big difference, IMO these do not belong to same category and both are targeting different audience. There is likely going to be big difference in price as well. If this is not having 40-50% advantage this will be a epic disaster.

 

[Tobimacoss]

AT4 APU will be used on handheld Windows PCs.

AT3 Madusa Halo will be used extensively with SFF/ Mini PCs. You can install Windows with XBox full screen or Steam OS on that sucker so Mini PC with MHalo will be made by everyone and their mama prolly.

Yes, I'm aware AT4 is likely handhelds, and AT3 is Laptops/mini PCs, but if MS made consoles out of those, they would be more powerful than a Series S and X and cheaper than Magnus.

So doable right? If it's all just PCs.

 

[Shogmaster]

Yes, I'm aware AT4 is likely handhelds, and AT3 is Laptops/mini PCs, but if MS made consoles out of those, they would be more powerful than a Series S and X and cheaper than Magnus.

So doable right? If it's all just PCs.

Honestly, a PC hybrid will have to be better GPU performer than PS6, otherwise it loses any appeal. AT3 will have 48 CUs with ~400GB/s bandwidth. PS6 will have 52 CU and ~600 GB/s bandwidth. Not enough for ppl to spend more than a PS6...

AT4 PC handgelds will fill that role over PS6HH well.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Honestly, a PC hybrid will have to be better GPU performer than PS6, otherwise it loses any appeal. AT3 will have 48 CUs with ~400GB/s bandwidth. PS6 will have 52 CU and ~600 GB/s bandwidth. Not enough for ppl to spend more than a PS6...

AT4 PC handgelds will fill that role over PS6HH well.

A Magnus AT3 console priced similar to Orion but with free multiplayer and free Cloud saves. That would be the calculation in the scenario I'm trying to illustrate.

Xbox and AMD: Advancing the Next Generation of Gaming Together - Xbox Wire

This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. Find out more inside.

news.xbox.com

"first party consoles" as in plural.

"portfolio of devices" what does that portfolio include?

If they're all just PCs, they would all be one unified ecosystem. Meaning no Play Anywhere needed, and MS could release devices with various levels of power at various price points.

And the article mentions OEMs not only building more expensive higher spec devices but also cheaper ones. So what are the cheaper ones? It has to be AT4 or AT3 right?

 

[MCH2024]

Canis is 16 CU. What's stopping MS from doing a 24 CU AT4 console, or a 48 CU AT3 console, in addition to the 68 CU Magnus.

Again.

AMD charged 298$ for the APU (Strix Point) used in ROG Ally.

The pricing picture is completely different if you're a semi-custom customer with a volume guarantee and who helped with co-engineering.

Or if you're just buying off the shelf silicon.

One gets silicon near wafer cost and the other gets charged Premium Margins.

 

[MCH2024]

"first party consoles" as in plural.

Xbox Magnus
ROG Magnus
Omen Magnus

Etc

 

[MCH2024]

PS6 is 280mm² 160W where as Xbox Hybrid is 408 mm² with 250W according to leaks

It's important to note this.

Xbox Magnus is better in everything. Compute, front end, clocks, L2, etc. no matter the bottleneck Xbox Series X2 has more of that than Sony.

Xbox has basically learnt from Series X's failure to beat PS5 in performance.

 

[MCH2024]

Yes, I'm aware AT4 is likely handhelds

No it's designed so C390 doesn't just obliterate medusa 1.

AMD Roadmap is volatile right now. For all the talk about Nvidia delaying or cancelling. The chances of AMD delaying/cancelling AT0/3/4, mdsH and mdsP are astronomically higher. They will not proceed with tapeouts and production mask sets if they are not certain they can sell enough volume to earn a positive ROI.

 

[bitbydeath]

I like the ones which go "I've been a PC gamer for years..." too. Fun stories to read

Ex-Box fans are hilarious.

 

[bitbydeath]

Kepler has said that the xbox SoC needs a minimum order and that the handheld was cancelled because AMD wanted 10M+ units to justify making a dedicated SoC.

That was in the thread discussing Magnus:






Exactly and Kepler has mentioned that the minimum for AMD was 10M for the handheld SoC and I don't see why AMD would accept only a 1M commitment for Magnus. It likely has the same commitment. It may be that magnus doesn't sell, MS just calls it a writeoff and gives the remaining chips to OEMs with commitments of their own for windows support or something. I suspect they will just stuff it into xcloud blades though and they wouldn't really be doing that with handheld SoCs.

Is anyone expecting Magnus to reach 10M with the prices that's been rumoured?

 

[Tobimacoss]

Again.

AMD charged 298$ for the APU (Strix Point) used in ROG Ally.

The pricing picture is completely different if you're a semi-custom customer with a volume guarantee and who helped with co-engineering.

Or if you're just buying off the shelf silicon.

One gets silicon near wafer cost and the other gets charged Premium Margins.

The entirety of AMD's Zen 6 and RDNA5 is Xbox co-engineered. The portfolio is designed for PCs, Laptops, Handhelds, Consoles, Cloud.

This week, Xbox announced it is actively building its next-generation lineup across console, handheld, PC, cloud, and accessories. As part of this, Xbox unveiled that it has entered into a strategic, multi-year partnership with AMD to co-engineer silicon across a portfolio of devices, including future first-party consoles and cloud.

Xbox Magnus
ROG Magnus
Omen Magnus

Etc

First party means MS created. ROG and OMEN would be third party. So there are at least a plural of first party consoles.

No it's designed so C390 doesn't just obliterate medusa 1.

AMD Roadmap is volatile right now. For all the talk about Nvidia delaying or cancelling. The chances of AMD delaying/cancelling AT0/3/4, mdsH and mdsP are astronomically higher. They will not proceed with tapeouts and production mask sets if they are not certain they can sell enough volume to earn a positive ROI.

AMD discontinued the Z3 handheld lineup of chips, they will need something for next gen handhelds, which is likely to be AT4.

Magnus = CPU SOC, theoretically it can be paired up with AT3 and AT4. Series X and S have the same CPU.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

7540U and 7600M plus separate RAM pools plus complex mobo accommodating all that plus Magnus die size being about the same as 7540U and 7600M dies added together all adds up to costs for both being not that far apart.

Imma guess less than $300 gap.

the ps6, given the current price trajectories, will clock in (compete guestimates) between 999 and 1299. I can see MS tacking on a nice "it plays Steam games" tax as well.

 

[memoryman3]

It's important to note this.

Xbox Magnus is better in everything. Compute, front end, clocks, L2, etc. no matter the bottleneck Xbox Series X2 has more of that than Sony.

Xbox has basically learnt from Series X's failure to beat PS5 in performance.

You don't think that there will be games that use the PS6's memory to the fullest extent?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Is anyone expecting Magnus to reach 10M with the prices that's been rumoured?

If it can capture the "I am going to get a gaming PC" type of crowd and is priced right, who knows

If Xbox can nail the "console like experience" of coming home and picking up a controller and getting right into gaming on your TV, who knows

Do I think MS can manage even just these 2 things flawlessly?

 

[OverHeat]

The more I think about it the more I'm going to pick one up for my lady the steam machine is just to weak.

 

[Magic Carpet]

If it can capture the "I am going to get a gaming PC" type of crowd and is priced right, who knows

I think it's gonna capture the I need a new PC crowd.
70% of Steam players on old hardware? Did they ever say how many players that was?

Xbox only gamers are going to have to make a hard decision soon.
Pay up and keep the library and friends list. Or move to PlayStation and or Switch.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This point gets regurgitated a lot.

On Paper Series X is not faster than PS5. No.

You're looking at the GPU Compute only. Yes Series X is 18% faster there. But it has a 22% slower GPU front end.

On net it's a wash. With Series X running some games st marginally higher detail or resolution and losing to PS5 in FPS by 10%+ in others.

Magnus on the other hand is just better than PS6 at everything. It's basically a PS6 Pro.

And with that. We have come full circle from how these discussion were pre-launch last gen.

Ironic.

 

[adamsapple]

The more I think about it the more I'm going to pick one up for my lady the steam machine is just to weak.

Primitive shaders are pretty much the same between RDNA1 and 2. In PC space RDNA1 just lacks Api support, something that Sony did with PS5.

So how much more efficient PS5 really is? Reality is that there are games that perform better on PS5, games that perform better on Xbox and games that are more or less the same. Both consoles use similar level of power so this "efficiency" talk is not exactly true (Xbox can even use less power). PS5 is cheaper to produce on the other hand (smaller die but require more efficient cooling thanks to that and higher clocks).

In a game that actually uses primitve and mesh shaders (Alan Wake 2) Xbox certainly doesn't underperform:

And you can think I'm being some Xbox fanboy... but it's hard to be a fanboy of something that you don't even own.

Space Marine 2 is also a game that (reportedly) uses Mesh Shaders and also has one of the more sizable difference between the two consoles in recent year(s).

 

[Loxus]

That is a possibility but then I don't see what kind of customisation on the xbox handheld would make it that different from AMDs current Ryzen AI MAX plans either.

Could be the specs MS wanted.

 

[Loxus]

So are all the misgivings about MLiD being a source of information pretty much gone now? Asking because it wasn't that long ago that people scoffed quite a bit whenever he was referenced.

Not that I'm saying it should be one way or another.

I believe what is happening this time around, is everything known so far about PS, Xbox and AMD specs wise came from him and is proving to be accurate as products gets revealed. With his latest being Zen6 Venice.

I do find it odd that he has that kind of information, a YouTuber. He has to be paying for that info from his sources for them to risk their jobs or it's controlled leaks from within AMD, Intel and Nvidia or both.

 

[Topher]

I believe what is happening this time around, is everything known so far about PS, Xbox and AMD specs wise came from him and is proving to be accurate as products gets revealed. With his latest being Zen6 Venice.

I do find it odd that he has that kind of information, a YouTuber. He has to be paying for that info from his sources for them to risk their jobs or it's controlled leaks from within AMD, Intel and Nvidia or both.

I wouldn't doubt that a bit. He has over 200k subs now so he's probably making good money and invests that in sources to keep it going.

 

[twilo99]

We already do.

It's called a PC, no?

You've said as much in the past yourself.

Yes, of course, I meant "console" if you consider this the Xbox a console.

What makes a console a console is an interesting discussion

 

[KeplerL2]

You don't know what are you talking about, i've mentioned "For example : Primitive Shaders and Geometry engine are primarily based on RDNA 2, it does exist for RDNA1, but custom implementation for higher geometry output and efficiency is only available on RDNA 2.

Bolded part doesn't exist on Vega or RDNA 1.

Keep claiming that PS5 is RDNA 1, It just adds to the weight that the PS5 is a much much more efficient console than the superior one like "fully based" RDNA2 powered XSX. :/


It is not golden, it is a reality. Sadly

Bojji is right, PS5 is just RDNA1 + RT, there is no magic Mark Cerny customizations.

And btw PS6 isn't full RDNA5 either.

 

[ReasonBeing]

Is anyone expecting Magnus to reach 10M with the prices that's been rumoured?

Impossible, 5 million would be pushing it. I think they are positioning this device as a prestige product that boosts brand awareness. I imagine it's roll will be more to solidify Windows gaming market share against Steam OS, rather than claw back console market share from Sony. Obviously, this is just an uninformed prediction.