MLK Day Protesters Block Traffic on the Bay Bridge

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No, I'm just talking about how this type of protest may not be the best course of action as even though they are definitley getting the attention this movement needs it could just cast the whole movement in a bad light and add fuel and a false sense of justification for the other side.

And when did I say I hated them? I never said that at all.
If this protest gets attention it has done what it set out to do. If racist shitheads can turn people using traffic jams, those people were worthless to begin with. And unless you have an alternative for effective protests I don't see how you're in a position to judge their methods at all. (Please don't say "In front of a government building or police station", for all our sanity's sake)

And I never said you hated them. No idea where you got that.
 
So when someone posts a dissenting opinion the first thing you think of is that they're either trolling you or are ignorant as fuck? Come on.

I'm just saying I don't think that upsetting a shitload of people who have nothing to do with this and getting everyone angry is going to do anything besides provide fuel for the hate fire the other side has for this movement. If you want to explain to me why I'm wrong, go right ahead. But don't be a dick.

Nothing dickish about saying something is ignorant. If you don't know what protests are there to do, then what you're saying is ignorant. They want awareness. Well, change, but awareness right here and now. Man, I say ignorant shit all the time. We all say ignorant shit.

I can't imagine that because ice never been through it. And I don't know if any attention is good attention, it might just strengthen the other sides resolve or something.

I've never been through it either, but I'm sympathetic. I've been picked on, bullied, intimidated, outright threatened, singled out, and literally told to grin and bear it by my teachers, when "it" was calling me all kinds of shit in front of my peers. And I haven't experienced an iota of what a black man or woman of any color experiences daily. Maybe it's just recognizing how ignorant I was and still am in lots of ways as to what's going on that makes me realize that any attention is good attention, but I can say with full surety that if someone willfully ignores that there's systematic oppression that's taking place right now, in 2016, then they're just that...willfully ignorant. And there's a BIG difference between ignorance and willful ignorance.
 
You can have Ruth. No one can take her from you
old_lady.jpg


I miss her so..😢

Dont piss me off bruh.
Sorry, sir..
 
Look, I get it. There's no way for the message to make it through, because emotions are high and there's already too many assholes in the thread shouting about minor inconvenience.

Even if it was more than hypothetical, I'm not sure there would be much sympathy at this point. "If he knew his mom was going to be dead in a few hours he should've already been by her side, it's his own fault he wasn't there before they blocked the bridge, not the protesters'."

I just can't help but think, what if it was me in that situation. I could keep believing in the cause, but man what a shitty situation all around.

You just unlocked the problem and you damn well don't even realize it.


When faced with an anti-police violence protest you're more able to empathize and put yourself in the shoes of a theoretical someone on the bridge trying to get to a theoretical hospital than an actual black person trying to stop the police from actually killing them.
 
If this protest gets attention it has done what it set out to do. If racist shitheads can turn people using traffic jams, those people were worthless to begin with. And unless you have an alternative for effective protests I don't see how you're in a position to judge their methods at all. (Please don't say "In front of a government building or police station", for all our sanity's sake)

And I never said you hated them. No idea where you got that.

I just don't see how any attention is good attention. My parents are sadly in the "self defense" crowd, and after seeing this they'll probably think the black lives matter movement is full of a bunch of crazy people or something stupid. But I guess their reactions aren't important since they probably were going to stay that way regardless of any reasoning. I guess if there's really no other effective way to get the attention this movment needs then this is the way it has to be though. So maybe I'm starting to get it I guess.
 
I'm trying to think of a way to protest without pissing some people off while still getting a good amount of attention. I got nothing. It seems like interrupting the average joes normal every day life is about as simple as it gets without resorting to violence or destruction of some kind.

If you dont disrupt something people will just ignore it like they always have.
 
I just don't see how any attention is good attention. My parents are sadly in the "self defense" crowd, and after seeing this they'll probably think the black lives matter movement is full of a bunch of crazy people or something stupid. But I guess their reactions aren't important since they probably were going to stay that way regardless of any reasoning. I guess if there's really no other effective way to get the attention this movment needs then this is the way it has to be though. So maybe I'm starting to get it I guess.

Your self-awareness, empathy and ability to see things from a different perspective is genuinely, sincerely appreciated.
 
It doesn't matter what the cause is, I won't support this action.

It doesn't have to be about being liked. Sorry I don't support fucking everyone's day and blocking key infrastructure for any cause.

And if I were mayor, I'd make sure it doesn't happen again.

Sorry a difference of opinion is so hard for you to swallow. That's life.

So your response to anti police brutality protest is to empower police brutality.

Awesome. Yeah you're totes the victim in this thread
 
I just don't see how any attention is good attention. My parents are sadly in the "self defense" crowd, and after seeing this they'll probably think the black lives matter movement is full of a bunch of crazy people or something stupid. But I guess their reactions aren't important since they probably were going to stay that way regardless of any reasoning. I guess if there's really no other effective way to get the attention this movment needs then this is the way it has to be though. So maybe I'm starting to get it I guess.

Now imagine knowing this, and still walking on to that bridge to protest. Knowing you'd probably only get off it in cuffs, and might never make it out of the justice system. I wish I was that brave.
 
It's strange, I know. I actually had an extensive conversation with a couple of local officers about MLK the other day, and--and this is the surprising thing--at no point during the conversation did they pull their weapons and discharge them into my person, nor the multitude of black, white, Asian and Hispanic customers that were in there that morning. I kept watching to make sure they didn't gun down any pedestrians on their way back to their cruiser.

They're hard to find, but they exist.

Did you give them a cookie? For being so brave?
 
So your response to anti police brutality protest is to empower police brutality.

Awesome. Yeah you're totes the victim in this thread

I like it how people get so sensitive to people reacting to their uninformed, unsympathetic opinions.

It's like they want to be able to say whatever they want without consequence of being called out on it. And then getting defensive.
 
BLM has really opened my eyes to just how little white people care. There is no real desire for change, no real hunger, and it took widespread protest like this to make that naked apathy so evident.

I wanted to believe we were better than this. We are not. We care more about tone we can tune out like television commercials, about polite concern we can disregard without a second thought, about feel-good MLK quotes that don't make us uncomfortable, about the "tradition" of confederate flags flying over government buildings, and about unimpeded traffic over bridges that don't interrupt our own private, curated existences than we care for all the lives of black men, women, and children destroyed by broken, racist systems.

We are a sick people, and no amount of tithing in our megachurches and our shopping centers, devil's advocacy, lip service, fuzzy feelings, and passivity will make us well. We stand motionless in the way and we are so passionate, so vocal to make sure everyone knows we're better than those ones who are throwing down black people and killing them, that we're not the bad ones. We wrap MLK's dream speech around us like a t-shirt, to conspicuously consume civil rights as though it were a part of our lives and important to us like our favorite sports, games, celebs, or electronic peripherals.

It's a lie. Black Lives Matter. But not to us.
 
Personally speaking, someone I know lost their lives in police hands this year. It is currently still under investigation. (you can read about it here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/special-police-alonzo-smith_us_56398a5fe4b0b24aee48180d) . He didnt have a mean bone in his body, and was hilarious when he talked about fashion, particularly his shoes.

I've been reading this thread, thinking of suggestions... I've realized there is nothing more that I want than the footage to be released. It has made me realize just how effective it really is.

Even more so, because of the recent footage released and the pressure to get body cams on police officers, we now have footage of his death, whether they want to or not.


I won't knock on protesting, or its effectiveness, I am just going to suggest continued use of releasing footage in addition to the other methods.
 
After reading Chezzymans post I can see how I was going about this incorrectly as well. I figured the protests on the bridge were dumb because they wont sway the people who are ignorant to the BLM movement while simultaneously inconviniencing the people that do care about it, but how else would you reach the vast majority of people that dont care? Its better than a violent answer and at this point what else can you really expect them to do. Apologies.
 
Alpha, that's so sad. Thanks for sharing. I agree-all this footage just needs to be released.

I just think about all the shit that's been caught on camera since the invention of the smartphone-and think about everything that DIDN'T get caught before that.
 
BLM has really opened my eyes to just how little white people care. There is no real desire for change, no real hunger, and it took widespread protest like this to make that naked apathy so evident.

I wanted to believe we were better than this. We are not. We care more about tone we can tune out like television commercials, about polite concern we can disregard without a second thought, about feel-good MLK quotes that don't make us uncomfortable, about the "tradition" of confederate flags flying over government buildings, and about unimpeded traffic over bridges that don't interrupt our own private, curated existences than we care for all the lives of black men, women, and children destroyed by broken, racist systems.

We are a sick people, and no amount of tithing in our megachurches and our shopping centers, devil's advocacy, lip service, fuzzy feelings, and passivity will make us well. We stand motionless in the way and we are so passionate, so vocal to make sure everyone knows we're better than those ones who are throwing down black people and killing them, that we're not the bad ones. We wrap MLK's dream speech around us like a t-shirt, to conspicuously consume civil rights as though it were a part of our lives and important to us like our favorite sports, games, celebs, or electronic peripherals.

It's a lie. Black Lives Matter. But not to us.
Well said!
 
Reading this thread, I realize I'm not optimustic about positive change for black people occuring in the US. The population is so polarized between liberal and conservative (specifically regarding institutionalized white and wealthy privilege) that there have been no changes in legislation to reduce mass shootings, despite a constant stream of them occuring all over the US, and enormous support for change from a massive proportion of white and wealthy US citizens: the people politicians actually care about and cater to.

There's a black president and things seem to be getting worse for black people. Certainly not better.

I don't know what it's going to take. Anything violent or terroristy hasn't a prayer of working. Anti-black prejudice would simply take on something akin to the Islamophobia that already exists. I hope we don't get to a point where people are covering themselves in gasoline and immolating themselves in front of the White House, but short of that I can't imagine what it will take to instigate meaningful change.

How do others feel about this? Please tell me I'm being overly pessimistic.
 
There's a black president and things seem to be getting worse for black people. Certainly not better.
Here's the funny thing.

Things have actually gotten better, not worse.

The only thing that has changed is visibility, and the amplification of voices via social media.

So imagine how fucked up things used to be.
 
After reading Chezzymans post I can see how I was going about this incorrectly as well. I figured the protests on the bridge were dumb because they wont sway the people who are ignorant to the BLM movement while simultaneously inconviniencing the people that do care about it, but how else would you reach the vast majority of people that dont care? Its better than a violent answer and at this point what else can you really expect them to do. Apologies.

th
 
Alpha, that's so sad. Thanks for sharing. I agree-all this footage just needs to be released.

I just think about all the shit that's been caught on camera since the invention of the smartphone-and think about everything that DIDN'T get caught before that.

I appreciate the responses.


It hit me like a ton of bricks when someone had posted some powerful imagery of the civil rights movement from the 60s earlier in this thread. Having that vivid imagery or footage removes the ambiguity and room to make excuses for what it actually is.
 
All of you worried about how "this won't attract supporters to the movement" are totally lost. You have no idea what they're doing and why. None of this is about "gaining support." You're making it clear you can't see the world past what's in front of your own eyes. You can't dismantle institutional racism by playing within the system designed to perpetuate the racism.

Blacklivesmatter.com talks about LIBERATION, not getting white people to like them.

I don't see how you expect any change then. Gaining support is exactly what is needed to end police brutality, especially towards blacks. You don't need everyone of course, but you need enough support to get political action to be taken, and the more support you get the more likely political action becomes. The movement won't get anything if they don't try to work within the system, because they would need a monumental amount of support and power to be able to overthrow "the system."
 
BLM has really opened my eyes to just how little white people care. There is no real desire for change, no real hunger, and it took widespread protest like this to make that naked apathy so evident.

I wanted to believe we were better than this. We are not. We care more about tone we can tune out like television commercials, about polite concern we can disregard without a second thought, about feel-good MLK quotes that don't make us uncomfortable, about the "tradition" of confederate flags flying over government buildings, and about unimpeded traffic over bridges that don't interrupt our own private, curated existences than we care for all the lives of black men, women, and children destroyed by broken, racist systems.

We are a sick people, and no amount of tithing in our megachurches and our shopping centers, devil's advocacy, lip service, fuzzy feelings, and passivity will make us well. We stand motionless in the way and we are so passionate, so vocal to make sure everyone knows we're better than those ones who are throwing down black people and killing them, that we're not the bad ones. We wrap MLK's dream speech around us like a t-shirt, to conspicuously consume civil rights as though it were a part of our lives and important to us like our favorite sports, games, celebs, or electronic peripherals.

It's a lie. Black Lives Matter. But not to us.


/claps. Some of us whites are aware and want to change things. I've stopped talking to a lot of people because of my views. Not all us are bad...just the majority unfortunately.
 
I don't see how you expect any change then. Gaining support is exactly what is needed to end police brutality, especially towards blacks. You don't need everyone of course, but you need enough support to get political action to be taken, and the more support you get the more likely political action becomes. The movement won't get anything if they don't try to work within the system, because they would need a monumental amount of support and power to be able to overthrow "the system."

Black people need to quietly work within the system that is explicitly designed to hold them back and keep them down in the first place. Oh.
 
I don't see how you expect any change then. Gaining support is exactly what is needed to end police brutality, especially towards blacks. You don't need everyone of course, but you need enough support to get political action to be taken, and the more support you get the more likely political action becomes. The movement won't get anything if they don't try to work within the system, because they would need a monumental amount of support and power to be able to overthrow "the system."
You're still looking at it as working from within the system. That's certainly a goal of many people, but many others have correctly assessed that change will never happen that way. Liberation will take disruption and revolution. A racist system designed to stay that way will continue to stay that way unless it is forced to change.

There are endless examples of white people in the past doing this, which is how we got to where we are now. Governments and systems don't just exist in perpetuity. We are not subservient to our government. In America, the ideal is that our government answers to the people, and it will continue to do so through time.

Try to get a meeting with your local politicians and talk to them about changing anything at all. I imagine it will be as eye-opening for you as it was for me.
 
Do pedestrians have the right of way on a bridge like that?

What stops you from plowing through them and suing them for damages made to your car?
 
Shouldn't they be protesting outside of police departments and government buildings or events? You know, places where people that can actually do something reside and or where people can engage with you person to person? Instead of shutting down roadways, freeways, and public transportation that people, black or otherwise, rely on greatly to ensure that they can hold down a job or keep their family together or for ems workers to get people to hospital?

I get that they want to be heard, but most average people in the bay area support blm to a high degree. So this is a case of, let's disrupt and potentially endanger the lives of people that most likely already have our back and?....like what the fuck is the logic, shitting on people that support you?

Is a disruptive protest headline that's forgotten in less than a day really worth all the potential harm the "protest" can do to people that can't directly change anything?

I draw the line of protest at endangering the average person's health and livelyhood.

Protestors have already done that. The reason you haven't heard about it is because it doesn't bring enough attention to itself. It doesn't work.
 
How about human decency to let people get to work on time?

Or how about.... I don't know, protesting at a police station or a courthouse where the responsible parties congregate?
There's a whole thread here for you to read. Do you think these are new thoughts instead of the exact same shit that's been refuted over and over all day?

How about the human decency to recognize that our fucking police are murdering citizens and getting away with it and almost everyone doesn't care? Really think about it, because I don't imagine it's sunk in to you that this is real fucking life.
 
Black people need to quietly work within the system that is explicitly designed to hold them back and keep them down in the first place. Oh.

You're still looking at it as working from within the system. That's certainly a goal of many people, but many others have corrected assessed that change will never happen that way. Liberation will take disruption and revolution. A racist system designed to stay that way will continue to stay that way unless it is forced to change.

There are endless examples of white people in the past doing this, which is how we got to where we are now. Governments and systems don't just exist in perpetuity. We are not subservient to our government. In America, the ideal is that our government answers to the people, and it will continue to do so through time.

I wonder if you two are confusing the method by which someone works within the system with working outside the system. You don't have to work quietly within the system, and in fact you do get better results by not doing so, to a certain point (there is such a thing a being too loud in many cases). But if you are working through the existing power structures and political order, then you are by definition working within the system. I hope you two don't seriously expect to be able to overthrow the current system through revolution. You can get the system changed by getting people to vote for/support candidates that support the change you want.
 
How about human decency to let people get to work on time?

Or how about.... I don't know, protesting at a police station or a courthouse where the responsible parties congregate?

Are you really comparing running over people with being late to work?

Wtf is wrong with you?
 
I wonder if you two are confusing the method by which someone works within the system with working outside the system. You don't have to work quietly within the system, and in fact you do get better results by not doing so, to a certain point (there is such a thing a being too loud in many cases). But if you are working through the existing power structures and political order, then you are by definition working within the system. I hope you two don't seriously expect to be able to overthrow the current system through revolution. You can get the system changed by getting people to vote for/support candidates that support the change you want.
We have a black president, and this is still happening.
 
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