Biff
Member
Hm. I'm trying to come up with a counter argument but I'm honestly having trouble... As much as I'd like to think a 235 HW couldn't hold the belt, JDS is 239 after all...
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MMA |OT2| - Thread of Athletes, Fighters, Personalities, and Sports Entertainment
- Thread starter yacobod
- Start date
Hm. I'm trying to come up with a counter argument but I'm honestly having trouble... As much as I'd like to think a 235 HW couldn't hold the belt, JDS is 239 after all...
Seriously, I've only watched three Chael Sonnen fights, and the last two are the marks of a Top 3 fighter in his class and the other one was three years ago, WEC 36 v. Paulo Filho. That one was boring as fuck and the mark of a mediocre fighter beating a walking zombie. It was about two years between that fight and his matchup with Anderson Silva. Somewhere in there a beast was born.
Host Samurai
Member
I wouldn't think it would be wise for Davis/Hendo/Evans to even bother grappling with Jones. He is faaaar too strong and can sub a choke on you from many different angles with that reach. Dude is a damn beast. The LHW division reminds me Mike Tyson's Punch Out on the NES and Bones is the final Tyson fight. He is a real life boss fight. Overpowered, huge, ridiculous reach and athletic skills.
Here are possible opponents that realistically fight in the next 2 years.
Left of the division
Evans
Hendo
Davis
Not contenders
Franklin
Lil Nog
Griffin
Strikeforce
King Mo
Mousasi
Middleweights that can fight LHW
Anderson - Not going to happen but would give Jones problems on the feet
Vitor - Hits hard and fast
Rematch
Healthy Shogun - I really don't think he will come back the same after the Hendo war
Machida - He was great on saturday and realistically the only LHW NOW in the UFC that has the best chance.
Here are possible opponents that realistically fight in the next 2 years.
Left of the division
Evans
Hendo
Davis
Not contenders
Franklin
Lil Nog
Griffin
Strikeforce
King Mo
Mousasi
Middleweights that can fight LHW
Anderson - Not going to happen but would give Jones problems on the feet
Vitor - Hits hard and fast
Rematch
Healthy Shogun - I really don't think he will come back the same after the Hendo war
Machida - He was great on saturday and realistically the only LHW NOW in the UFC that has the best chance.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Too bad 205 is lacking in a really good BJJ guy. Jones leaves his arms out when he is in someones guard.
I think Lil Nog could be a contender. Add Feijao to Strikeforce.
Choked out soulless in the second round=best chance to beat in rematch
Host Samurai
Member
He got a bit aggressive in the 2nd and wasn't picking his shots right which led him to back up closer to the cage....we all know what happend after. Its safe to say that when Jones starts his grappling its pretty much over. He will overpower and out grapple everyone ay LHW. On HW's can grapple with him.
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
Britney was the ring girl for round 2 is why.
He was going fine until he started overcommitting. Shame. I thought I was about to watch a masterful display of strategy, brilliant timing and counterstriking. Then he got caught. I knew he had to stay the fuck away from that cage. That's what killed Shogun as well.
At the end of the day, I doubt Machida could have kept it up and stayed safe for another four rounds.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Jones started chasing him. The first round he was felling Machida out.
Host Samurai
Member
I would love to see him be one again, but his losses to guys like Bader and Davis were pretty sad. He did however look good against Tito...but who doesn't? Too bad he's not on par with his better half in the submission game.
The thing about the UFC machine, they will always churn out a new contender. On paper you'd think Jon Jones can clean out the division next year, but there will always be a warm body to throw in there. Look at Anderson and Georges.
Also, throw in Alexander Gustafsson by the time 2013 rolls around.
Also, throw in Alexander Gustafsson by the time 2013 rolls around.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Nedkov's overhand right will take care of Jones. It is his only move so someday he'll have to perfect it.
TheNatural
My Member!
In a decent scoring system, Machida vs. Jones Rd 1 would have been a tie because neither one did anything significant to asset winning the round. Machida threw a few inaccurate flurries, and Jones landed some leg kicks. Anyone hanging their hat on "Machida won a round against Jones, which is more than so and so can say" is flat out stupid.
A good example of a round that needs to be judged an indifferent round in a new scoring system, because neither one did shit.
A good example of a round that needs to be judged an indifferent round in a new scoring system, because neither one did shit.
parrotbeak
Member
I like people were just surprised that Machida didn't get murdered in the first minute, so that's winning.
Did anyone really think this? I mean Jones hasn't finished any of his past four fights in the first round and if anything he's been expanding his feeling-out period and is always careful not to unnecessarily push things going for the finish. I called R2 TKO . . . close. Pretty obvious that Jones was going to feel him out and then finish him in R2/3 though. I thought that was the likeliest outcome. Definitely didn't think he was going to blitz him though as charging in like a madman in R1 would have been pretty much the only way Machida had a chance of winning, and Greg Jackson's not stupid.
parrotbeak
Member
He came out with a flying knee in the Shogun fight.
Yeah but different fighters though. I wasn't saying Jones would never blitz anyone, just that I didn't think he would Machida given Machida's skillset. Also, he kneed Shogun but notice he didn't try to force the finish at all in the Shogun fight despite several potential openings in the first couple rounds. In the end it's just a guess but I think it was a good gameplan.
parrotbeak
Member
Ya that's true. I didn't expect him to point fight Machida. Thought he would mix up striking with takedown attempts or at least threaten. As for whether Machida could defend and turn it into his kind of fight initially, I wasn't sure. But I didn't expect Jones to fight Machida's fight willingly for the whole first round. Makes sense in retrospect though.
Host Samurai
Member
Get over it. Machida had his number that round and connected with the better shots.
I don't see the Strikeforce guys coming over, nor the middleweights moving up just to get their asses handed to them by Jones. I'd say give the top three contenders a shot, throw in something that might be fun like Lil Nog or Griffin after that, then offer up rematches with Shogun or Machida. After that just throw him cans or new contenders, whoever happens to be left. There will be new contenders by that time (2 years minimum)
It will be like when GSP is handed cans like Dan Hardy. I swear, the only reason he's not cut is because the UFC needs someone other than Bisping to carry the English audience for them. And we all know Bisping is content to be #11, never wanting to move up but not letting anyone surpass him in the rankings, either.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Two judges gave the first round to Jones.
Host Samurai
Member
I was watching some more Jones fights and it's not only the reach that gives him a huge advantage, its his damn frame. All his fights look like a David vs Goliath. Its crazy how he tosses these elite guys around like they are WW. His real tests will be at HW where his reach will be nullified and he would be grappling with guys just as strong as him.
I don't think comparing him to Struve is right outside of the reach. Struve can't grapple with guys his size and sure as hell can't toss them around. Jones should be tested with a guy like Kongo to see where he really is.
I don't think comparing him to Struve is right outside of the reach. Struve can't grapple with guys his size and sure as hell can't toss them around. Jones should be tested with a guy like Kongo to see where he really is.
What happened was that Jones reach did the work for him. The cut blurred Machida's vision, he didn't see the left hook. Then he got chocked, in a way only possible with his physical ability.
Host Samurai
Member
And there have been judges that gave Machida the win against Shogun in their first fight. The judges are blind.
I think he was robbed against Bader.
TUF Brazil would be something I'd actually want to watch. Wanderlei is awesome personified in a single human being.
Too bad he probably won't be able to beat Vitor. Weirder things have happened before. I laughed out loud when I read the Korean Zombie described his striking as superior to Mark Hominick's. Then he ends a fight with strikes in seven seconds. Lucky or not, it was great to see the underdog come up victorious so decisively.
I'm not saying Wanderlei is going to end Vitor in seconds, but if he fights like he did last against Cung Le, he has a chance, however slim it may be.
Too bad he probably won't be able to beat Vitor. Weirder things have happened before. I laughed out loud when I read the Korean Zombie described his striking as superior to Mark Hominick's. Then he ends a fight with strikes in seven seconds. Lucky or not, it was great to see the underdog come up victorious so decisively.
I'm not saying Wanderlei is going to end Vitor in seconds, but if he fights like he did last against Cung Le, he has a chance, however slim it may be.
I don't think it's that he didn't see the hook coming, it's more that he had already committed to his own. Jones' reach advantage allowed him to get there first.
Had Machida made contact, I think Jones would've been pretty hurt, but alas...
TheNatural
My Member!
Sure thing, which is why when Jones actually decided to do something he choked Machida out like a bitch. Kind of like when a father lets his little kid try like 10 layups in basketball until he scores so his son could say he "beat him."
"Aww that's cute Lyoto. You did the thing there where you tried to run at me and hit me and missed 10 times, a couple of cute weak little kicks there. Now go to sleep, son."
Host Samurai
Member
We all know Jones won in devastating fashion in the closing moments of the fight, but Machida made him look foolish in the 1st. Myself and others thought he had him figured out and would finish him by the 3rd. Anybody saying that Jones won the first is obviously sucking his cock.
Well once Jones gets a hold of you, you are pretty much going down and gonna eat some elbows. No LHW should ever grapple with him no matter how good they are.Evans, Davis and Hendo can't overpower the guy. The best way is to fight from the outside and keep the fight standing. Way too strong and his size and build give him extra leverage and he can apply a choke on his opponent from almost any angle with those arms. The dude needs to go HW and fight guys just as strong.
TheNatural
My Member!
He made him look foolish by running and barely connecting with anything. Gotcha. Maybe you should rewatch the fight and see how many punches in those flurries actually hit. He had one good body kick and that was it.
Host Samurai
Member
Ryu still had a better 1st than Bones.
Host Samurai
Member
What did Jonny boy do in the first? Thats right NOTHING.
Korean Zombie used to kickbox so I don't know why people think he isn't a good striker. Because his movements are more linear in MMA?
so why make a big deal about the first round in a fight that was ended with a huge exclamation point in the 2nd round? 2 out of the 3 judges scored the first for JBJ. i had machida winning the round 10-9, but it wasn't really decisive.
i can see you making a bigger stink if machida had dominating 4+ rounds like chael sonnen did against anderson silva and losing at the last second to a fluke sub or something. but the 2nd round he got a marvin eastman size cut to the forehead, got dropped with a punch, and choked the fuck out.
i can see you making a bigger stink if machida had dominating 4+ rounds like chael sonnen did against anderson silva and losing at the last second to a fluke sub or something. but the 2nd round he got a marvin eastman size cut to the forehead, got dropped with a punch, and choked the fuck out.
sazabirules
Unconfirmed Member
Host Samurai
Member
Im making a stink out of it because I think there are no more good contenders for Bones at LHW. Hendo, Davis and Evans are not nearly as strong enough to grapple with the guy. They will be eating elbows the moment it gets to the ground. The only fighters with a decent chance of beating him at LHW are unorthodox strikers such as a Machida or an Anderson. Somebody that is tough to prepare for. Otherwise his only challenges are at HW where he will be grappling with guys just as strong as he is.
TheNatural
My Member!
Uh, we just saw that Machida didn't have a decent chance of beating him. You're acting like Rd 1 was some decisive round for Machida where he owned Jones or something. No, it was a shit boring round with little action that really didn't deserve to be scored either way. And the fact is, the only way Jones would lose to Machida is through his own inactivity in the fight and lose a lethargic 5 round decision where the whole fight was similar to round one. That was Machida's best bet, to win in a bitch made fashion where he doesn't hurt or threaten Jones, but Jones and Machida both go through the motions in a lethargic way, and Machida somehow garners the decision out of it.
I think Phil Davis and Aleksander Gustaffson will emerge in the coming years as exciting contenders at 205#. I don't think the old guard at 205# have anything for JBJ, although I'd like to see fights with Hendo and Rashad, but I don't think they have the skillset to win unless Hendo hits him with one of those nuclear right hands.
and I'll leave you with this gem:
and I'll leave you with this gem:
Nick Diaz said:
Ninja Scooter
Member
Georges would probably apologize for getting slapped.
Host Samurai
Member
I felt as if Machida got Jones figured out in the stand up and was getting warmed up. Started doing the "Anderson Silva" data gather. It was working and would have loved to see what would have happened if the fight never went to the ground. I was on the edge of my seat that fight and when Machida got cut I knew it was the end. I would rather see Machida fight him again over Evans or Hendo.
Also whats with Shoguns lack of kicks since the Machida fight? Does anybody get the feeling that his 4th knee surgery will prevent him from using his best weapon? I was bewildered on why he didn't throw many leg kicks vs Hendo. Those leg kicks would have been the difference maker IMO. As a Shogun fan its shitty.
Maklershed
Member
Even though I saw it live I don't remember the details because I was drunk as hell for that fight but didn't Shogun give Jones much more trouble than Machida?
Host Samurai
Member
Perhaps it's because we watched him flail with the precision and tact of a trailer park tornado against Leonard Garcia in the Fight of the Year 2010?
Thankfully he hasn't fought like he's in a barroom brawl since then, despite that battle that brought my attention to Chan-Sung Jung. I'd call him a good striker, but I considered Mark Hominick a better striker. His two fights in the WEC didn't display anything significant regarding striking, so I judged him accordingly.
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