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MMA |OT2| - Thread of Athletes, Fighters, Personalities, and Sports Entertainment
- Thread starter yacobod
- Start date
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
So, weigh-ins for tomorrow's card in one hour...
Maximo Blanco vs. Marcus Brimage Verbally Agreed for UFC 145 in Atlanta
Maxi to featherweight. Certified scrap.
Maxi to featherweight. Certified scrap.
Interesting side note: UFC offered Paul Harris to fight Maia first.
I can understand why he turned it down. Hopefully we see it down the road, though.
I can understand why he turned it down. Hopefully we see it down the road, though.
Thanks, but isn't there a private group to join?
Oh man I'd love to see that fight.
parrotbeak
Member
I'd love to see them grapple. I agree a mma fight will likely be a subpar boxing match.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Took me 5 years to get my taekwondo black belt. I honeslty think it'll be 10 years to get a BJJ blackbelt.
But, sure Bisping. If you feel like one. Why not?
I really don't understand why Showtime signed a new contract with them. Strikeforce is an absolute joke now. MMA would be better off if the organization just died already so UFC could get the very few decent fighters they have left.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Figured MMA-GAF should see this:
Low-Ki's a shitty worker who potatoes the fuck out of people...what a shocker. I have only heard this story about 10,000 times in the last decade since he was in JAPW.
Figured MMA-GAF should see this:
I laughed when Wrassle GAF was wondering if this was a shoot. But hey...
Figured MMA-GAF should see this:
I laughed when Wrassle GAF was wondering if this was a shoot. But hey...
Harold Howard would be proud.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Why no audio?
Better now.
Better now.
ldcommando
Banned
Worst weigh in ever
ldcommando
Banned
wtf? Is this a mma news show? and old news?
ldcommando
Banned
Really? Here in Brazil they showed the weighin in the usual format.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Gut looks weird.
So I can see Brittney. DUH mother fucker!
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
Need some bigger traps.
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy
it's 4th of July in my asshole
It's free. Kinda like those shitty toys in cereal boxes, you don't really want it... but fuck it, its free.
Just remember Miller was one win away from main eventing in Japan.
if you missed the game thread,codes are being given out for the UFC beta.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34403834&postcount=24
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34403834&postcount=24
TheNatural
My Member!
An upgrade from the last guy who main evented on a Japanese MMA show.
You don't want Low-ki knocking out jobbers?
This FX card is like UFC's foray into the emerging Bad MMA market. I've never seen a more lackluster card. By that I mean on paper, as these kind of shows end up being awesome. But really, almost all of the fighters are either debuting, on their 2nd fight, on the verge of getting cut or fading into obscurity.
Even the Fuel TV cards are better than this.
UFC on Fuel TV: Sanchez vs. Ellenberger
UFC on Fuel TV: Nogueira vs. Gustafsson
Don't they want to start off on a new network with a bang? Not Ludwig.
Even the Fuel TV cards are better than this.
UFC on Fuel TV: Sanchez vs. Ellenberger
UFC on Fuel TV: Nogueira vs. Gustafsson
Don't they want to start off on a new network with a bang? Not Ludwig.
I've been waiting for this one.
that was really well done
this that kid from Dexter?
if not, it looks exactly like him
edit: probably is
Pristine_Condition
Member
Just post in in the Wrasslin' thread as usual. Fuck the haters.
TheNatural
My Member!
Post it, just format some of it damnit. Paste it in Microsoft Word first or something, then put quote tags around it.
dream
Member
It was a crazy few days where almost every single major UFC problem hit at once.
There was the problem of too many shows with not enough stars. The performance enhancing drug issue. The weight cutting issue. Inconsistent officiating. About the only thing missing was a bad judges decision.
The first major casualty of the new schedule came when it was announced on 1/17 that UFC 145, scheduled for 3/24 in Montreal, has been postponed. UFC is still planning on running a show in Montreal over the next few months, and is working on arranging a date, but there were no dates available in April or May due to the Bell Centre not releasing any Saturday night dates because of the possibility of needing them for Stanley Cup playoff games.
It was the first time Zuffa has ever canceled an announced PPV date. Dana White had always spoken about the difference between boxing and UFC is that when a main event falls out, UFC still always runs a show.
The culprit seems to be the inability to get anything close to a viable main event for the show. The only matches scheduled for the show when it was canceled were Che Mills vs. Rory MacDonald, Ben Rothwell vs. Brendan Schaub, Mark Bocek vs. Matt Wiman, Mark Hominick vs. Eddie Yagin, Mac Danzig vs. Efrain Escudero, Chad Griggs vs. Travis Browne and Chris Clements vs. Keith Wisniewski. The future of these matches was not determined at press time, whether they would be added to different shows or saved until the company got a date in May.
There had been talk in recent weeks of headlining Montreal with a Jon Jones vs. Dan Henderson light heavyweight title match. White had said this past week that he didnt want to announce a match for Jones until after the 1/28 FOX show in Chicago and the Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis fight.
We made the decision earlier this week that were going to postpone our Montreal event, noted Tom Wright, Director of Operations for UFC Canada. I dont have to tell you how important Montreal is as a market for us (three of UFCs four biggest crowds thus far in its history were at the Bell Centre). The Bell Centre is one of the most best venues for your shows. We just decided that we would reschedule the event. It doesnt mean were not coming back to Montreal. We are. Were expecting to be back in 2012. It was a scheduling issue. That is what is boils down to. Fundamentally, Montreal is a championship city and we want a championship caliber card.
With the cancellation of the date, UFC wont have a PPV show between the 2/25 date from Saitama, Japan, and the 4/21 date in Atlanta, an eternity by modern UFC standards. The plan is to still do 14 PPV events, including three from Canada, during 2012. But now the three, the Montreal show, a planned show later in the year in Toronto, and a third show (which we were told would likely be August in Calgary at one point but Wright said that the third city is not confirmed) will all take place closer together.
An interesting beneficiary of this is WWE, as noted to us by someone in the company. As noted in our past studies, while a UFC PPV the night before a WWE PPV usually does significant damage to the WWE number, there is also a noticeable but lesser effect when the WWE show is eight days later. WrestleMania is eight days after this Montreal show. If anything, WrestleMania, one of the companys few mainstream shows, would get hurt the worst (2010) coming a day after UFC with the idea that a lot of groups of people who no longer watch wrestling will watch WrestleMania with friends once a year. But a lot of those groups still get together now to watch UFC, and getting groups together two straight days, or even two straight weekends, is often overkill. The same goes for places like bars and restaurants ordering the shows. UFC will almost always take precedence with the idea the shows are more popular and draw a higher spending clientele. But if there is no UFC show for two months, it is more likely such establishments will order WrestleMania. In addition, even when Vince McMahon denies the crossover, he does admit to doing worse numbers when shows are in close proximity, stating its because the cable channels will give UFC commercial time for shows that otherwise would be earmarked for WWE shows, thus the WWE gets less local cable promotion. Now, during the period from, say 3/10 to 3/24, when ads for UFC 145 will have proliferated, with no other major PPV event (the first big boxing event this year isnt until May), it is likely the vast majority of those UFC ads will become WrestleMania ads, giving them an unexpected boost in promotion.
In addition, White announced that due to an injury to Mark Munoz, the semifinal on that show would now be Sonnen vs. Michael Bisping, with the winner being the next opponent for middleweight champion Anderson Silva.
Demian Maia, who was to face Bisping, will now face undefeated wrestler Chris Weidman in the third televised match on FOX. Maia, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion and Abu Dhabi world submission champion, will face a Matt Serra protege who was a two-time All-American at Hofstra, who once beat Davis in college wrestling, and who placed third in the nation in 2007 in the NCAA tournament at 197 pounds, and has cut to 185 in UFC.
In this case, its a fight that has far more appeal then the original. In fact, when the Bisping vs. Maia match was announced, many, including us, questioned why they didnt do Bisping vs. Sonnen because its a far more marketable television fight, and because Bisping and Sonnen are both opponents who will draw far more interest against Silva than Munoz would. And it wasnt as if Munoz had broken down the doors where he had clearly earned a title opportunity more than Bisping. But now they only have a little more than a week to promote it.
Hes been kicked out of politics, he has been kicked out of the real estate business and I am going to kick him out of the middleweight division, said Bisping. However its not all bad news for him, because with his gift of the gab, Chael has got a bright future as a used car salesman or daytime TV quiz show host.
This isnt the new co-main event because I sold all the tickets, said Sonnen. This is the new main event. I am going to knock the teeth out of this snot-nosed Brit who calls himself royalty, who calls himself a Count. I am MMA royalty and America will tune into the Chael Sonnen show next Saturday on FOX. I will personally welcome Bisping to the year two-thousand-and-Chael.
Hours earlier, the company announced it was going to do in-house steroid testing of competitors, and that it actually had started as of the first of the year testing all fighters for performance enhancing drugs before signing them to contracts. Details of the testing were not announced.
The health and safety of our athletes is our top priority, said Dana White in the release announcing the policy. Weve seen the issues performance-enhancing drugs have caused in other sports and were going to do everything we can to keep them out of UFC and Strikeforce. Our athletes are already held to the highest testing standards in all sports by athletic commissions. Our new testing policy for performance-enhancing drugs only further shows how important it is to us to have our athletes competing on a level playing field.
As noted many times, the nature of the performance enhancing drug issue in sports is that even with the best testing they are impossible to eradicate. But anything short of unannounced random testing of fighters year-round, where all fighters, and not just the ones in California or Nevada high-profile main events are tested with no notice, is going to leave major gaping holes in the program. Ultimately, UFC itself is the only one that can implement this plan. This is a good sign if this is a step toward that direction, the beginning of a company testing that will grow more extensive over time. Its not nearly so good if its just a step the company is taking to make it appear to the public that they are responding to the issue. In a recent Observer web site poll, the drug testing issue, in particular inadequate drug testing, was listed as the leading problem facing UFC today.
While the announcement came almost immediately after news broke of Mohammed King Mo Lawal, 31, testing positive for steroids, the decision was made in late December to implement this program according to sources within the company. The positive test result for Cris Cyborg actually came back on 12/23, although it wasnt made public until two weeks later. The indication we were given is the program may have been a response to all the controversy in December stemming from the Alistair Overeem situation. The program actually went into effect on 1/1, with testing of all the new fighters that have been signed in recent weeks.
The announcement came right after the Nevada State Athletic Commission released that Lawal, 31 had tested positive for the steroid Drostanolone in his A sample, also known as Masteron, in testing taken after his 1/7 win in Las Vegas over Lorenz Larkin on the Strikeforce show. A B sample has yet to be tested.
Lawal, a former Strikeforce light heavyweight champion who came within an overtime criteria loss of representing the U.S. in freestyle wrestling in the 2008 Olympics, was expected to face Gegard Mousasi for the vacant title in his next fight. The fight was likely to take place on the show after the 3/3 show. While nothing was announced as far as a fine or suspension at press time, it was expected to be a suspension of between nine months and one year, and a significant fine, in the neighborhood of 30% to 50% of Lawals $95,000 earnings for the fight. In addition, Lawals win over Larkin would almost assuredly be overturned and ruled a no contest.
Masteron, a drug clinically used to treat women with breast cancer, is an anabolic steroid that used to be popular with bodybuilders just before competition because it didnt add weight, but maintained muscle mass while in a severe dieting phase. The drug is expensive and can be difficult to obtain and is believed to be low on the scale of negative side effects, although fatigue, the last thing a fighter would want, has been linked as a side effect. Generally speaking, the belief is that in most cases it clears your system when it comes to drug testing in ten days, but its recommended to discontinue use at least three weeks before a test to be on the safe side in some literature but others have been told to cease two months ahead.
Bill Mahood, a former UFC fighter, who tested positive for it after a loss to Bobby Southworth in a 2007 Strikeforce show in Beverly Hills, CA, said that he had discontinued use about five weeks prior to the fight and tested positive for very low amounts. Two other fighters were caught that year for Masteron by California State Athletic Commission testing. Hermes Franca, who admitted he was having trouble getting down to weight in 2007 for a UFC lightweight title fight with Sean Sherk, tested positive and admitted to use. Current UFC fighter Dennis Hallman tested positive for both Drostanolone and Nandrolone (Decadurabolin) in 2007 on a Strikeforce show in San Jose. Josh Barnett also tested positive for the drug in 2009 as he was attempting to get licensed for his Affliction fight with Fedor Emelianenko that never happened.
Im in shock, said Lawal, who had yet to fully respond to the test result, but did claim when the result came out that he had never used the drug.
Lawals manager, HDNet television announcer Mike Kogan said to USA Today that nether he nor Lawal had even head of Drostanolone. He said Lawal doesnt even use supplements with the exception of iron, but did say he received a non-anabolic steroid shot a few weeks before the fight when he had fluid drained from his knee.
Weight-cutting became a major topic this past week, with a series of circumstances that led to Anthony Johnson, a middleweight who fought Vitor Belfort on the 1/14 show in Rio de Janeiro, missing weight by 12 pounds. Johnson gassed out quickly in a fight that saw him choked out late in the first round. Those close to him said he should have never gone through with it in the first place after his body cramped up from dehydration the day before, although he hardly looked dehydrated, or even bothered, a few hours later when weighing in. Johnson was then being fired after the show.
It was the third time in ten UFC fights that Johnson, who had fought up to that point as a welterweight, had missed weight, all by a significant margin.
Johnson is in an interesting spot. Most likely, if he wins a few fights, and makes weight for those fights, UFC has so many injuries and need for late replacements that at some point, hed probably have a chance to come back because he is talented. But if he doesnt stay within shooting distance of his weight class, if hes called on a week or two notice, he may not be able to make weight then either. If he goes to Bellator, hed probably be the favorite if he would agree to enter one of their tournaments. But if he signs with Bellator, itll be a several year deal and that will lock him out of a UFC return.
Johnson is one of the most exaggerated of weight-cutters in the sport,. While fighting as a 170-pounder, Johnson often weighed as much as 220 pounds when he entered camp, although he was not in top shape at that weight. But he would be 208 pounds in shape. After cutting and rehydrating, he would go into the cage at more than 200 pounds. There are the obvious benefits of being substantially larger. But the huge weight cutting and rehydrating cycle has been questioned. A lot of the fighters cutting to that degree have not performed well in their fights, likely due to the toll that takes on their system.
At the American Kickboxing Academy camp in San Jose, trial-and-error has led to a goal of fighters going into the cage at their training weight, and staying within 15 or so pounds of their weight class. Even then weight cutting isnt fun, but situations where fighters do drastic cuts and struggle in the fight, having major stamina issues, like Jake Shields against Martin Kampmann, Dan Henderson against Shields, Thiago Alves with Jon Fitch, or Jose Aldo Jr. with Martin Kampmann, are avoided.
But it can also lead to a size advantage over an opponent and that can be a huge benefit both physically and psychologically.
But not only are there issues of performance, but of overall health. In 1997, three college wrestlers died as a result of weight cutting, leading that sport to immediately implement standards and use hydration testing when it came to weight cutting. These have existed since then at many levels and locales in U.S. wrestling. The safeguards wrestling put in are not there in MMA, where there is no regulation of cutting at UFC shows in recent years with the exception of one commission a few years ago that was insistent on it and didnt allow fighters to go into the cage past a certain weight above what they weighed in at. Other athletic commissions have attempted to put rules in. Ohio has rules in place, but because UFC is the 800-pound gorilla, they do not have to adhere to them because of all the revenue the shows bring in. Massachusetts was looking at putting regulations regarding limitations to how much weight a fighter could put back on from his day-before weigh-in, but were pressured to remove them from the rules.
In recent months, there have been several issues on Zuffa events. T.J. Cook, a Strikeforce fighter, suffered kidney failure after his 7/22 win over Lionel Lanham in Las Vegas. Cook said that as soon as his fight was over, his body started shutting down. Then, I blacked out. I couldnt breathe. I couldnt see.
Cook was actually carried to the cage to get his hand raised, rushed to the back, where doctors determined he needed to be rushed to the hospital. When he got there, the doctors determined he was suffering from kidney failure.
They told me if I hadnt been brought in, I probably would have died, said Cook in an interview after recovering.
Cook did recover and still fights. On 12/30, Matt Riddle was pulled from the UFC show at the last minute, with reports his illness that didnt allow him to fight was due to repercussions of weight cutting.
Johnson started cutting from more than 215 pounds to make 185, his new weight class. After his misses at 170 he decided, or perhaps was told, that he needed to move up. But instead of staying the same size, where hed still be a big middleweight, he gained even more weight, trying to add more size, resulting in his cutting close to the same similar amount as when he was a welterweight.
There are a number of contradictory reports about what happened. But those associated with him were all insistent that he was well on his way to making weight. He either got to 191.5 pounds or 188 pounds, depending on which version is more accurate. At that point, he collapsed, and the doctors that examined him insisted that he get liquids in his system. Those close to him told us that he probably just should have canceled the fight. With the added liquids, by the time weigh-ins came, he weighed in at 197. Dana White went on television furious, saying it was unprofessional. He was excoriated not just for missing weight, but missing by 12 pounds, but that figure was misleading in the sense had his body not shut down, he possibly would have made it, but certainly wouldnt have missed by much. His version is that he was just happy he was alive, and even responded on twitter to people harassing him and calling him unprofessional.
His camp made a deal with Belfort, where he would give Belfort 20% of his purse for missing weight, but Belfort also insisted that the day of the fight, he weigh-in at less than 205 pounds. Johnson was 204.2 pounds during a weigh-in during the afternoon, before the fight, which went into the cage past 1:30 a.m. in Rio. UFC has a policy of never announcing the actual weights of fighters at fight time, something that HBO does on boxing telecasts. But White told the announcers to release that Johnson was weighed shortly before fight time at 211 pounds, while Belfort, who made weight the day before, was now 206. Perhaps he did so because Johnson is something of a genetic freak, because he has a small waist for someone who is that size, so at 211, he has the upper body of someone closer to 230, so the weight difference of the two visually looked great, when it really wasnt as bad as it looked.
It was reminiscent of Daniel Cormier in the Olympics. Cormier, a current Strikeforce star, was the captain of the U.S. Olympic wrestling team in 2008. He wrestled at 211 pounds, and was considered a strong medal threat. Like with UFC, Olympic wrestling has weigh-ins the day before. Cormier was coming down from 238, and on his way down, his body shut down. His kidneys failed and he was rushed to the hospital. Instead of finishing his career with an Olympic medal, his wrestling career ended fighting for life. The incident scared him to the point that he has not listened to the advice of many in the sport who feel that he is too short and has too small of a frame to be a heavyweight, and that he should fight at 205.
Cormier doesnt dismiss that, but noted that if he does make the decision to drop, which would likely be only if Cain Velasquez is world champion again because while he didnt discount fighting him, he didnt relish the idea of facing his friend and training partner. But Cormier, who is not svelte like most fighters, said he would do is sensibly, dropping his late night eating and watching his diet for a long period of time to get his natural weight down to where the cut wouldnt be so taxing.
But here is the issue. Belfort and Johnson, and the vast majority of fighters, physically torture themselves two nights before and the morning and afternoon before their fights to make weight. Its really all part of the game. It makes people grouchy. Some call it the worst part of things, but nobody has any answers. The fact Belfort was 206 and Johnson was 211 tells you that had both just fought at 205, both men would be happier, healthier and have a lot more stamina and provide for a better fight with two men far closer to their peak condition. It would be the same for the vast majority of fighters. But the fear of fighting someone naturally 15-25 pounds bigger than you when fight time comes has turned this sport, and several others, into a nuclear arms race of weight cutters. And the reality is, you can cut some water weight, within reason, with minor annoyance, rehydrate and generally not risk health that much. If everyone, say at 185-195, cut to 185, thats one thing. But people who are 195 generally fight at 170, so if you dont want to give up size, if youre 195, you are simply too small to be a middleweight. The best welterweight weight may be 185-188, but some people are just natural 195ers and then what do you do?
The answers arent simple because everyone is so indoctrinated to how its done. Same day weigh-ins and fighting in your real weight class on paper sounds like the obvious answer. But some people would still cut excessively, and the last thing you want in a striking sport is someone going into a fight with their brains not properly hydrated.
Dr. Johnny Benjamin, who writes for MMAjunkie.com, wrote after the Johnson incident, Despite what the masses have witnessed (missing weight and poor performances) and what health professionals have experienced regarding profound sports-related weight-cutting, a persistent attitude remains: rapid, profound weight-cutting is not dangerous because the athletes have been doing it for years and are good at it. Unfortunately, this is faulty logic. Just because many fighters from a wrestling background have been cutting weight for years doesnt make the practice safe. It merely makes them lucky.
His suggestion is that fighters should not weigh-in at less than 90% of their normal body weight. He suggested also doing weigh-ins ten days before the fight and whatever the weight was, the fighter couldnt get more than 5% from that figure. If youre 200 pounds ten days out, you cant fight at middleweight, for example. But then youd just be like a wrestler who cuts every week during the season, and do two cuts. But there are standards where bodyfat and hydration levels are checked that are in place for amateur wrestling, giving a number for the lowest possible safe weight class you are allowed to cut to.
When it comes to this issue, there have been no truly dire consequences in UFC history, but there have been close calls. Its more an issue and a problem. A potential tragedy maybe not waiting to happen, but with plenty of scares in recent months, something that could happen. For that reason, I just hope its addressed one year too early instead of one year too late.
There was the problem of too many shows with not enough stars. The performance enhancing drug issue. The weight cutting issue. Inconsistent officiating. About the only thing missing was a bad judges decision.
The first major casualty of the new schedule came when it was announced on 1/17 that UFC 145, scheduled for 3/24 in Montreal, has been postponed. UFC is still planning on running a show in Montreal over the next few months, and is working on arranging a date, but there were no dates available in April or May due to the Bell Centre not releasing any Saturday night dates because of the possibility of needing them for Stanley Cup playoff games.
It was the first time Zuffa has ever canceled an announced PPV date. Dana White had always spoken about the difference between boxing and UFC is that when a main event falls out, UFC still always runs a show.
The culprit seems to be the inability to get anything close to a viable main event for the show. The only matches scheduled for the show when it was canceled were Che Mills vs. Rory MacDonald, Ben Rothwell vs. Brendan Schaub, Mark Bocek vs. Matt Wiman, Mark Hominick vs. Eddie Yagin, Mac Danzig vs. Efrain Escudero, Chad Griggs vs. Travis Browne and Chris Clements vs. Keith Wisniewski. The future of these matches was not determined at press time, whether they would be added to different shows or saved until the company got a date in May.
There had been talk in recent weeks of headlining Montreal with a Jon Jones vs. Dan Henderson light heavyweight title match. White had said this past week that he didnt want to announce a match for Jones until after the 1/28 FOX show in Chicago and the Rashad Evans vs. Phil Davis fight.
We made the decision earlier this week that were going to postpone our Montreal event, noted Tom Wright, Director of Operations for UFC Canada. I dont have to tell you how important Montreal is as a market for us (three of UFCs four biggest crowds thus far in its history were at the Bell Centre). The Bell Centre is one of the most best venues for your shows. We just decided that we would reschedule the event. It doesnt mean were not coming back to Montreal. We are. Were expecting to be back in 2012. It was a scheduling issue. That is what is boils down to. Fundamentally, Montreal is a championship city and we want a championship caliber card.
With the cancellation of the date, UFC wont have a PPV show between the 2/25 date from Saitama, Japan, and the 4/21 date in Atlanta, an eternity by modern UFC standards. The plan is to still do 14 PPV events, including three from Canada, during 2012. But now the three, the Montreal show, a planned show later in the year in Toronto, and a third show (which we were told would likely be August in Calgary at one point but Wright said that the third city is not confirmed) will all take place closer together.
An interesting beneficiary of this is WWE, as noted to us by someone in the company. As noted in our past studies, while a UFC PPV the night before a WWE PPV usually does significant damage to the WWE number, there is also a noticeable but lesser effect when the WWE show is eight days later. WrestleMania is eight days after this Montreal show. If anything, WrestleMania, one of the companys few mainstream shows, would get hurt the worst (2010) coming a day after UFC with the idea that a lot of groups of people who no longer watch wrestling will watch WrestleMania with friends once a year. But a lot of those groups still get together now to watch UFC, and getting groups together two straight days, or even two straight weekends, is often overkill. The same goes for places like bars and restaurants ordering the shows. UFC will almost always take precedence with the idea the shows are more popular and draw a higher spending clientele. But if there is no UFC show for two months, it is more likely such establishments will order WrestleMania. In addition, even when Vince McMahon denies the crossover, he does admit to doing worse numbers when shows are in close proximity, stating its because the cable channels will give UFC commercial time for shows that otherwise would be earmarked for WWE shows, thus the WWE gets less local cable promotion. Now, during the period from, say 3/10 to 3/24, when ads for UFC 145 will have proliferated, with no other major PPV event (the first big boxing event this year isnt until May), it is likely the vast majority of those UFC ads will become WrestleMania ads, giving them an unexpected boost in promotion.
In addition, White announced that due to an injury to Mark Munoz, the semifinal on that show would now be Sonnen vs. Michael Bisping, with the winner being the next opponent for middleweight champion Anderson Silva.
Demian Maia, who was to face Bisping, will now face undefeated wrestler Chris Weidman in the third televised match on FOX. Maia, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu world champion and Abu Dhabi world submission champion, will face a Matt Serra protege who was a two-time All-American at Hofstra, who once beat Davis in college wrestling, and who placed third in the nation in 2007 in the NCAA tournament at 197 pounds, and has cut to 185 in UFC.
In this case, its a fight that has far more appeal then the original. In fact, when the Bisping vs. Maia match was announced, many, including us, questioned why they didnt do Bisping vs. Sonnen because its a far more marketable television fight, and because Bisping and Sonnen are both opponents who will draw far more interest against Silva than Munoz would. And it wasnt as if Munoz had broken down the doors where he had clearly earned a title opportunity more than Bisping. But now they only have a little more than a week to promote it.
Hes been kicked out of politics, he has been kicked out of the real estate business and I am going to kick him out of the middleweight division, said Bisping. However its not all bad news for him, because with his gift of the gab, Chael has got a bright future as a used car salesman or daytime TV quiz show host.
This isnt the new co-main event because I sold all the tickets, said Sonnen. This is the new main event. I am going to knock the teeth out of this snot-nosed Brit who calls himself royalty, who calls himself a Count. I am MMA royalty and America will tune into the Chael Sonnen show next Saturday on FOX. I will personally welcome Bisping to the year two-thousand-and-Chael.
Hours earlier, the company announced it was going to do in-house steroid testing of competitors, and that it actually had started as of the first of the year testing all fighters for performance enhancing drugs before signing them to contracts. Details of the testing were not announced.
The health and safety of our athletes is our top priority, said Dana White in the release announcing the policy. Weve seen the issues performance-enhancing drugs have caused in other sports and were going to do everything we can to keep them out of UFC and Strikeforce. Our athletes are already held to the highest testing standards in all sports by athletic commissions. Our new testing policy for performance-enhancing drugs only further shows how important it is to us to have our athletes competing on a level playing field.
As noted many times, the nature of the performance enhancing drug issue in sports is that even with the best testing they are impossible to eradicate. But anything short of unannounced random testing of fighters year-round, where all fighters, and not just the ones in California or Nevada high-profile main events are tested with no notice, is going to leave major gaping holes in the program. Ultimately, UFC itself is the only one that can implement this plan. This is a good sign if this is a step toward that direction, the beginning of a company testing that will grow more extensive over time. Its not nearly so good if its just a step the company is taking to make it appear to the public that they are responding to the issue. In a recent Observer web site poll, the drug testing issue, in particular inadequate drug testing, was listed as the leading problem facing UFC today.
While the announcement came almost immediately after news broke of Mohammed King Mo Lawal, 31, testing positive for steroids, the decision was made in late December to implement this program according to sources within the company. The positive test result for Cris Cyborg actually came back on 12/23, although it wasnt made public until two weeks later. The indication we were given is the program may have been a response to all the controversy in December stemming from the Alistair Overeem situation. The program actually went into effect on 1/1, with testing of all the new fighters that have been signed in recent weeks.
The announcement came right after the Nevada State Athletic Commission released that Lawal, 31 had tested positive for the steroid Drostanolone in his A sample, also known as Masteron, in testing taken after his 1/7 win in Las Vegas over Lorenz Larkin on the Strikeforce show. A B sample has yet to be tested.
Lawal, a former Strikeforce light heavyweight champion who came within an overtime criteria loss of representing the U.S. in freestyle wrestling in the 2008 Olympics, was expected to face Gegard Mousasi for the vacant title in his next fight. The fight was likely to take place on the show after the 3/3 show. While nothing was announced as far as a fine or suspension at press time, it was expected to be a suspension of between nine months and one year, and a significant fine, in the neighborhood of 30% to 50% of Lawals $95,000 earnings for the fight. In addition, Lawals win over Larkin would almost assuredly be overturned and ruled a no contest.
Masteron, a drug clinically used to treat women with breast cancer, is an anabolic steroid that used to be popular with bodybuilders just before competition because it didnt add weight, but maintained muscle mass while in a severe dieting phase. The drug is expensive and can be difficult to obtain and is believed to be low on the scale of negative side effects, although fatigue, the last thing a fighter would want, has been linked as a side effect. Generally speaking, the belief is that in most cases it clears your system when it comes to drug testing in ten days, but its recommended to discontinue use at least three weeks before a test to be on the safe side in some literature but others have been told to cease two months ahead.
Bill Mahood, a former UFC fighter, who tested positive for it after a loss to Bobby Southworth in a 2007 Strikeforce show in Beverly Hills, CA, said that he had discontinued use about five weeks prior to the fight and tested positive for very low amounts. Two other fighters were caught that year for Masteron by California State Athletic Commission testing. Hermes Franca, who admitted he was having trouble getting down to weight in 2007 for a UFC lightweight title fight with Sean Sherk, tested positive and admitted to use. Current UFC fighter Dennis Hallman tested positive for both Drostanolone and Nandrolone (Decadurabolin) in 2007 on a Strikeforce show in San Jose. Josh Barnett also tested positive for the drug in 2009 as he was attempting to get licensed for his Affliction fight with Fedor Emelianenko that never happened.
Im in shock, said Lawal, who had yet to fully respond to the test result, but did claim when the result came out that he had never used the drug.
Lawals manager, HDNet television announcer Mike Kogan said to USA Today that nether he nor Lawal had even head of Drostanolone. He said Lawal doesnt even use supplements with the exception of iron, but did say he received a non-anabolic steroid shot a few weeks before the fight when he had fluid drained from his knee.
Weight-cutting became a major topic this past week, with a series of circumstances that led to Anthony Johnson, a middleweight who fought Vitor Belfort on the 1/14 show in Rio de Janeiro, missing weight by 12 pounds. Johnson gassed out quickly in a fight that saw him choked out late in the first round. Those close to him said he should have never gone through with it in the first place after his body cramped up from dehydration the day before, although he hardly looked dehydrated, or even bothered, a few hours later when weighing in. Johnson was then being fired after the show.
It was the third time in ten UFC fights that Johnson, who had fought up to that point as a welterweight, had missed weight, all by a significant margin.
Johnson is in an interesting spot. Most likely, if he wins a few fights, and makes weight for those fights, UFC has so many injuries and need for late replacements that at some point, hed probably have a chance to come back because he is talented. But if he doesnt stay within shooting distance of his weight class, if hes called on a week or two notice, he may not be able to make weight then either. If he goes to Bellator, hed probably be the favorite if he would agree to enter one of their tournaments. But if he signs with Bellator, itll be a several year deal and that will lock him out of a UFC return.
Johnson is one of the most exaggerated of weight-cutters in the sport,. While fighting as a 170-pounder, Johnson often weighed as much as 220 pounds when he entered camp, although he was not in top shape at that weight. But he would be 208 pounds in shape. After cutting and rehydrating, he would go into the cage at more than 200 pounds. There are the obvious benefits of being substantially larger. But the huge weight cutting and rehydrating cycle has been questioned. A lot of the fighters cutting to that degree have not performed well in their fights, likely due to the toll that takes on their system.
At the American Kickboxing Academy camp in San Jose, trial-and-error has led to a goal of fighters going into the cage at their training weight, and staying within 15 or so pounds of their weight class. Even then weight cutting isnt fun, but situations where fighters do drastic cuts and struggle in the fight, having major stamina issues, like Jake Shields against Martin Kampmann, Dan Henderson against Shields, Thiago Alves with Jon Fitch, or Jose Aldo Jr. with Martin Kampmann, are avoided.
But it can also lead to a size advantage over an opponent and that can be a huge benefit both physically and psychologically.
But not only are there issues of performance, but of overall health. In 1997, three college wrestlers died as a result of weight cutting, leading that sport to immediately implement standards and use hydration testing when it came to weight cutting. These have existed since then at many levels and locales in U.S. wrestling. The safeguards wrestling put in are not there in MMA, where there is no regulation of cutting at UFC shows in recent years with the exception of one commission a few years ago that was insistent on it and didnt allow fighters to go into the cage past a certain weight above what they weighed in at. Other athletic commissions have attempted to put rules in. Ohio has rules in place, but because UFC is the 800-pound gorilla, they do not have to adhere to them because of all the revenue the shows bring in. Massachusetts was looking at putting regulations regarding limitations to how much weight a fighter could put back on from his day-before weigh-in, but were pressured to remove them from the rules.
In recent months, there have been several issues on Zuffa events. T.J. Cook, a Strikeforce fighter, suffered kidney failure after his 7/22 win over Lionel Lanham in Las Vegas. Cook said that as soon as his fight was over, his body started shutting down. Then, I blacked out. I couldnt breathe. I couldnt see.
Cook was actually carried to the cage to get his hand raised, rushed to the back, where doctors determined he needed to be rushed to the hospital. When he got there, the doctors determined he was suffering from kidney failure.
They told me if I hadnt been brought in, I probably would have died, said Cook in an interview after recovering.
Cook did recover and still fights. On 12/30, Matt Riddle was pulled from the UFC show at the last minute, with reports his illness that didnt allow him to fight was due to repercussions of weight cutting.
Johnson started cutting from more than 215 pounds to make 185, his new weight class. After his misses at 170 he decided, or perhaps was told, that he needed to move up. But instead of staying the same size, where hed still be a big middleweight, he gained even more weight, trying to add more size, resulting in his cutting close to the same similar amount as when he was a welterweight.
There are a number of contradictory reports about what happened. But those associated with him were all insistent that he was well on his way to making weight. He either got to 191.5 pounds or 188 pounds, depending on which version is more accurate. At that point, he collapsed, and the doctors that examined him insisted that he get liquids in his system. Those close to him told us that he probably just should have canceled the fight. With the added liquids, by the time weigh-ins came, he weighed in at 197. Dana White went on television furious, saying it was unprofessional. He was excoriated not just for missing weight, but missing by 12 pounds, but that figure was misleading in the sense had his body not shut down, he possibly would have made it, but certainly wouldnt have missed by much. His version is that he was just happy he was alive, and even responded on twitter to people harassing him and calling him unprofessional.
His camp made a deal with Belfort, where he would give Belfort 20% of his purse for missing weight, but Belfort also insisted that the day of the fight, he weigh-in at less than 205 pounds. Johnson was 204.2 pounds during a weigh-in during the afternoon, before the fight, which went into the cage past 1:30 a.m. in Rio. UFC has a policy of never announcing the actual weights of fighters at fight time, something that HBO does on boxing telecasts. But White told the announcers to release that Johnson was weighed shortly before fight time at 211 pounds, while Belfort, who made weight the day before, was now 206. Perhaps he did so because Johnson is something of a genetic freak, because he has a small waist for someone who is that size, so at 211, he has the upper body of someone closer to 230, so the weight difference of the two visually looked great, when it really wasnt as bad as it looked.
It was reminiscent of Daniel Cormier in the Olympics. Cormier, a current Strikeforce star, was the captain of the U.S. Olympic wrestling team in 2008. He wrestled at 211 pounds, and was considered a strong medal threat. Like with UFC, Olympic wrestling has weigh-ins the day before. Cormier was coming down from 238, and on his way down, his body shut down. His kidneys failed and he was rushed to the hospital. Instead of finishing his career with an Olympic medal, his wrestling career ended fighting for life. The incident scared him to the point that he has not listened to the advice of many in the sport who feel that he is too short and has too small of a frame to be a heavyweight, and that he should fight at 205.
Cormier doesnt dismiss that, but noted that if he does make the decision to drop, which would likely be only if Cain Velasquez is world champion again because while he didnt discount fighting him, he didnt relish the idea of facing his friend and training partner. But Cormier, who is not svelte like most fighters, said he would do is sensibly, dropping his late night eating and watching his diet for a long period of time to get his natural weight down to where the cut wouldnt be so taxing.
But here is the issue. Belfort and Johnson, and the vast majority of fighters, physically torture themselves two nights before and the morning and afternoon before their fights to make weight. Its really all part of the game. It makes people grouchy. Some call it the worst part of things, but nobody has any answers. The fact Belfort was 206 and Johnson was 211 tells you that had both just fought at 205, both men would be happier, healthier and have a lot more stamina and provide for a better fight with two men far closer to their peak condition. It would be the same for the vast majority of fighters. But the fear of fighting someone naturally 15-25 pounds bigger than you when fight time comes has turned this sport, and several others, into a nuclear arms race of weight cutters. And the reality is, you can cut some water weight, within reason, with minor annoyance, rehydrate and generally not risk health that much. If everyone, say at 185-195, cut to 185, thats one thing. But people who are 195 generally fight at 170, so if you dont want to give up size, if youre 195, you are simply too small to be a middleweight. The best welterweight weight may be 185-188, but some people are just natural 195ers and then what do you do?
The answers arent simple because everyone is so indoctrinated to how its done. Same day weigh-ins and fighting in your real weight class on paper sounds like the obvious answer. But some people would still cut excessively, and the last thing you want in a striking sport is someone going into a fight with their brains not properly hydrated.
Dr. Johnny Benjamin, who writes for MMAjunkie.com, wrote after the Johnson incident, Despite what the masses have witnessed (missing weight and poor performances) and what health professionals have experienced regarding profound sports-related weight-cutting, a persistent attitude remains: rapid, profound weight-cutting is not dangerous because the athletes have been doing it for years and are good at it. Unfortunately, this is faulty logic. Just because many fighters from a wrestling background have been cutting weight for years doesnt make the practice safe. It merely makes them lucky.
His suggestion is that fighters should not weigh-in at less than 90% of their normal body weight. He suggested also doing weigh-ins ten days before the fight and whatever the weight was, the fighter couldnt get more than 5% from that figure. If youre 200 pounds ten days out, you cant fight at middleweight, for example. But then youd just be like a wrestler who cuts every week during the season, and do two cuts. But there are standards where bodyfat and hydration levels are checked that are in place for amateur wrestling, giving a number for the lowest possible safe weight class you are allowed to cut to.
When it comes to this issue, there have been no truly dire consequences in UFC history, but there have been close calls. Its more an issue and a problem. A potential tragedy maybe not waiting to happen, but with plenty of scares in recent months, something that could happen. For that reason, I just hope its addressed one year too early instead of one year too late.
dream
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And finally, at UFC Brazil on 1/14, we had the problem of referee inconsistency for the second straight week. This week didnt involve finishes, but involved a Dusty finish in one match, and stand-ups in another.
Erick Silva came out and destroyed Carlo Prater in :29. After Silva knocked Prater down with a knee to the body, he landed 12 punches on the ground, most to the side of the head, and one to the back of the head, before the match was called by referee Mario Yamasaki. However, with everyone expecting that Silva had won, Yamasaki, in the role of Stanley Blackburn or Tommy Young doing a version of the Dusty finish, told ring announcer Bruce Buffer that Silva didnt win, but was instead disqualified for punches to the back of the head.
Joe Rogan, in the ring, called over Yamasaki and they watched the replay. The replay showed one inadvertent punch to the back of the head in the flurry. Something like that is commonplace in finishes, because heads move when punches are thrown and in flurries at the finish these things happen. The general rule is that if an illegal blow, such as a punch behind the head or a head-butt or an accidental illegal knee ends a fight, but is not intentional, it would be ruled a no contest. It also could go to the cards if the bout has gone past a certain point, but that wouldnt be applicable here. But a DQ call would be for an intentional blow, which even if you are going to call the foul, which is virtually never called in this situation, it shouldnt have been a DQ.
Dana White texted horrible to us right after the finish, and went on twitter and at the press conference, while pointing out Yamasaki is a good referee, that he made a bad call. He also paid Silva his win bonus and, like when Jon Jones was disqualified against Matt Hamill, UFC is going to treat it when it comes to booking direction that Silva is coming off a win and on a streak of sub-one-minute wins. He also encouraged Silva to protest the decision.
But since the show was in Brazil, with no athletic commission, that means it falls to the hands of Marc Ratner, the Vice President of Regulatory Affairs for UFC. Ratner acts as the presiding commissioner in places like Brazil and Europe. Ratner was going to review the tape on 1/17. The issue is, I dont know that they can give Silva the win as most would want because Yamasaki said that he did warn Silva, and the punch to the back of the head came after the warning, and even though Prater was done and even had injured his shoulder, Yamasakis stoppage was in his mind calling a DQ, not a stoppage because Prater was unable to defend himself, even though he was not defending himself. So at best it would be ruled a no contest on the intent issue.
Nevada has a provision where, if there is a judgment call regarding an illegal move or something related to the actual finish of the fight, the referee can watch a replay and change his mind. Yamasaki didnt change his call or appear to want to when Rogan showed him the tape, and UFC itself doesnt have that rule in place. Although this might lead to such a thing being changed when UFC regulates its own shows.
Later, in the Belfort vs. Johnson fight, ref Dan Miragliotta ordered two stand-ups after very short periods after Johnson had taken Belfort down. He also ordered a break almost immediately when the two were in a clinch. While I dont buy this for a second, as a fan not knowing anything, it would have appeared that Miragliotta was doing everything he could to facilitate Belfort winning. And given the controversy regarding Johnson, who was expected to be fired over not making weight, and that this was a UFC regulated show, you can see where people would have suspicion. The Rio de Janeiro crowd was quick to boo any type of slowdown in the action, particularly when the Brazilian hero was on his back against an American and little was happening.
The subject of the pay of UFC fighters, which gets heavily debated every week or two on Internet message boards when certain athletic commissions release the pay information at shows, was the subject of an ESPN feature and web site article over the past few days, as well as a Yahoo article.
The investigative series Outside the Lines looked at fighter pay on a show that included an interview with Zuffa CEO Lorenzo Fertitta, that aired on 1/15 on ESPN 2. Even before the piece aired, UFC President Dana White started bad-mouthing it on his twitter, but more claiming UFC is chomping at the bit to discredit it.
Im excited to smash and discredit ESPN and the piece they did!! So pumped, was one of numerous tweets sent out by White while he was in Rio de Janeiro promoting UFC 142.
We wanted to look at what the pay scale is presently, it was not our intent to do the story on how UFC has grown exponentially, noted John Barr, the ESPN reporter who put together the piece. We feel that piece has been done. We paid some lip service to that. The main goal is what these guys are making at a time when the company has its first significant deal with a broadcast network and pay-per-view shows are as profitable as ever, what is the reality of fighters pay, not the top 5-10% of the fighters, but fighters across the board.
The actual piece was about six or seven minutes long, followed by a panel discussion of the topic with Robert Maysey, a lawyer who follows the sport and has attempted to get fighters to work together to garner merchandising deals and perhaps unionizing, former heavyweight champion Ricco Rodriguez, who praised Fertitta but claimed he was blackballed out of UFC by White, and Josh Gross, a reporter for ESPNs web site, who White has probably been more critical of than any reporter with the possible exception of Loretta Hunt.
But there is an inherent problem in the story that Barr readily admits. When covering a major sport, what the athletes earn is a matter of public record due to collective bargaining agreements. Trying to figure out what fighters make, and what UFC makes, is more difficult. UFC is a private company, and while they do release live gate information after most of their shows, that is the extent of financial information the company releases. The big revenue streams, whether it be pay-per-view revenue, television rights fees both foreign and domestic, any merchandising revenue, sponsorship income are all kept private.
And when it comes to fighters salaries, while some athletic commissions do release the base pay numbers, particularly Nevada, which is the companys home base and where they run the most often, many do not.
Plus, most importantly, the vast majority of the money UFC pays fighters is not released. You dont have to look any farther than Alistair Overeem, who defeated Brock Lesnar in the main event of UFCs last show in Las Vegas.
Overeems publicly listed pay for the show was $264,285.71 as base pay, plus he received $121,428.57 as his winning bonus. However, a lawsuit filed against Overeem by Knock Out Investments, the parent company of Golden Glory, Overeems former management, revealed what the Nevada pay sheets dont say and what most are in the dark about.
Overeem received a $1 million signing bonus upon inking his UFC contact, with the money spread over his first three fights, meaning he received another $333,333.33 guaranteed for the Lesnar fight. But for Overeem, and virtually every UFC main event fighter on pay-per-view, the number publicly talked about and the real number arent even close, due to pay-per-view percentages, which vary based on the fighter.
In the interview, Fertitta noted that 29 UFC fighters have such deals where they get a percentage of pay-per-view revenue. In the case of Overeem, he was to receive $2 per buy after Zuffa company pay-per-view revenue for the show topped $500,000, which would be roughly the first 23,000 buys. If the pay-per-view did 800,000 buys, that would be an additional $1,554,000, putting his total pay in excess of $2.2 million.
The problem is that without the lawsuit, people would be thinking Overeem earned $385,714.28 for headlining a major show. His opponent, Lesnar, was listed as earning $400,000 for the show, but the reality is he also had a pay-per-view bonus locked in, and since he was the more established draw, his bonus percentage would likely be significantly higher.
Within the MMA industry, those complaining about fighter pay continually throw out numbers, usually claiming that only 10% of revenue that UFC brings in trickles its way down to the fighters. But that figure is ridiculous. But what the real figure is for the most part is unknown, because virtually every revenue stream, as well as the actual pay most fighters receive, is also unknown.
What we did is reach out to fighters, managers, some folks who have worked for Zuffa, and use that 2010 Standard & Poors report that 75% of revenue comes from pay-per-view and live events, said Barr. We tried to understand all the revenue streams, pay-per-view itself, costs of production, marketing, all of that stuff. Thats one piece of it. Then, what the guys get paid. We know whats reported, but we know about all that off the books money, so you have to piece together many parts.
So you wound up with ranges. Most people come up with a number thats 10%, some say 6-7%, some high-teens. Lorenzo is on the record saying thats ridiculous, and is closer toward what the established leagues pay. I didnt press him on that, but did ask if theyre paying close to 50% and he said, `Yes.
Monte Cox, an agent who has 70 fighters under contract, 16 of who are under contract to Zuffa, said how except for the fighters at the top, the rest are struggling and that you dont negotiate deals with UFC, you take what they offer.
The FTC does have some type of investigation going into Zuffa. The piece said it was an investigation of whether purchasing Strikeforce for $34 million (a dollar figure that Fertitta said on camera for the first time) has led to UFC becoming a monopoly.
Obviously, UFC is not a monopoly, as shown by the different promotions on HDNet, as well as Bellator having television deals. But they control almost every marketable fighter on the North American scene with the exception of a few. It is difficult for a fighter to make a good living outside UFC, although there are exceptions, like Eddie Alvarez, who earns well into the six figures per fight in Bellator. But for those fighters, its impossible for them to be considered the best, no matter how many fights they win. And its difficult for them to even be considered in the rankings, because to be ranked highly you have to beat guys ranked highly as a general rule, almost all of which are under contract to Zuffa.
Fertitta said UFC has paid out about a quarter-billion in fighter salaries since 2005. But that number would not be anywhere close to 50% of revenues. Fertitta said in a Sports Business Journal article a few months back that the company grosses $400 million per year. Standard & Poors has access to their financial information because UFC works on the money of outside bondholders, but only a limited amount gets published. But UFC has been highly profitable from 2006 to the present, with estimates of $76 million in 2006 and a significantly higher profit number in 2010. With PPV falling, the 2011 numbers are likely significantly lower since PPV is the main revenue stream. But those criticizing the numbers have pointed out that $250 million doesnt appear to add to anywhere near 50% of total company revenue over the past six or seven years for a company that probably hit close to or surpassed the $200 million in revenue range by 2006 and has grown significantly almost every year since then. With PPV bonuses being built into more contracts, Fertitta said that pay to fighters has grown at double the rate of the increase in revenue, which means that whatever the percentage was a few years ago, it would be significantly higher now.
The difference between claims UFC pays 8% and 50% is quite the range and the difference between what could be considered gross underpayment and what would be considered fair payment at least based on the standards of major sports. There is no way the number is anywhere close to 8% as noted in our previous attempts at estimates.
In an attempt to use figures based on Zuffas percentage of an 800,000 buy show, which is at best an estimate of how the show did, the $3.1 million live gate, using listed fighter pay, announced bonuses, estimates of unannounced bonuses (admittedly extremely tricky), and percentages of payper-view revenue built into the main eventers contracts, and you get a very rough figure of 28% of revenue off that event going to talent, and given the bonus structure, that estimate is more likely a little low than a little high. However, for the 1/7 Strikeforce show in Las Vegas, that figure could easily have been greater than 50%.
In an attempt by (ESPN reporter Josh) Gross and ESPN to do a hack job on us, we were ready this time!, White posted. We are gonna blast these hacks!
He also wrote, Trust me, I have been part of ESPN hack jobs, thats why I dont do those BS shows and why we filmed it.
ESPN doesnt care about this sport, ESPN hates this sport, they hate this sport, they wont even cover it, they dont tell the great stories about this sport, they dont tell stories about the fighters, do you ever see an in-depth story about great fighters, hell no you dont, said White in a video UFC produced as a counter argument. You see this garbage Outside the Lines.
Theyre dirty. They lie, and they never really give you really all the facts. You cant even watch stuff like this on TV. From now on, thats why I didnt participate in the interview, I refused to participate in the interview, I will never participate in anymore interviews like that, and if I do, I will only do that if we film them filming us.
Its a difficult task to know what is and isnt fair. For one, UFC, as a business, is structured completely differently than the big four team sports, which pay closer to half of total revenue to the athletes. Its structured differently than boxing, where the major names fighters earn significantly more than UFCs biggest draws. Georges St. Pierre recently said that he earns $4 million to $5 million per fight, but that figure likely includes sponsorship revenue. UFC has costs associated with producing and marketing shows, and front office expenses, and international expansion costs that a boxing organization doesnt have.
Plus, the draw in UFC is different than boxing. In boxing, most pay-per-view shows do less than 50,000 buys, but big draws like Manny Pacquiao can do significantly more than 1 million buys, and at a higher price point than a UFC show. Floyd Mayweather vs. Victor Ortiz, for example, grossed $78 million just on pay-per-view revenue, while if UFC 141 was Zuffas biggest show of the year and did 800,000 buys, that would be a gross of closer to $36 million, and Zuffa only gets a percentage in the range of half of that. Between live gate and estimated revenue the fight generates originally to the promoters, Mayweather vs. Ortiz would be $48 million and UFC 141 would be around $21 million. Ortiz received a $2 million guarantee and we dont know what, if any, percentage he may or may not have received. Mayweather received a $25 million guarantee, plus a percentage of all revenue, and is believed to have taken in somewhere near $40 million. Three other fighters on the show earned six figures, most notably Erik Morales at $350,000. But four received less than $10,000 including two prelim fighters who each received $1,500. There are also site fees, HBO replay revenues, and tons of other revenues involved. The general rule for a big boxing event is 70% goes to the fighters, and in this case, it may have been more. But both sports are structured differently.
For the 11/12 Pacquiao vs. Marquez fight in Las Vegas, not including PPV cuts (the show did 1.41 million PPV buys, the largest number for any U.S. PPV event since UFC 100), Marquez received $5 million and Pacquiao received $6 million, while Tim Bradley received $1,025,000 and Joel Casamayor received $100,000. Of the 16 fighters on the show, six were paid less than $10,000 with a low of $1,200.
Virtually every UFC show will do at least 200,000 buys, but the top ceiling for the biggest events isnt as high, because UFC big events still dont get nearly the level of mainstream media coverage of a Pacquiao fight. While the main event most often is the key, the main eventers dont draw as much additional revenue as the two big boxing stars who make tens of millions. Plus, as a general rule, UFC pays undercard fighters better, and markets the shows around the top several matches on a card as opposed to just one match.
The closest business model to UFC is that of World Wrestling Entertainment, which is believed to pay in the range of 13-15% of its total revenue to its performers. And thats not perfect either because while pro wrestling historically has been about main event wrestlers drawing money, it is no more of a touring brand. Big matches and main event names do make a difference to ratings, PPV and to a small degree, house shows, but not nearly at the level main event UFC fighters do. While some will argue WWE is performance art and not a real athletic competition and thus the performers dont deserve as much, the dollars WWE derives from its performers is every bit as green as those which UFC derives.
Like UFC, but unlike major sports franchises, both WWE and UFC employ hundreds of full-time front office workers, so comparing the percentage they pay to, say, an NFL team, with far less employees, isnt necessarily a fair comparison. But on the other hand, like UFC, WWE has been a very profitable business built off the bodies of its performers, for the past several years.
From 2001 to 2004, UFC lost tens of millions of dollars. Fertitta talked of losing $10-12 million in the first year and a similar amount in successive years until getting the television deal. If you are talking about what the fighters were earning then, which is a lot less than now, it was significantly more than the company could afford and remain in business for the long-term. UFC pays more than other organizations, but almost every major MMA company existing collapsed due to financial issues, often paying fighters more than the companies derived in revenue.
In fact, UFC itself before 2005 nearly collapsed under the weight of the debt. But in 2005, the company turned the corner, thanks to a television deal with Spike, and has been running with significantly high EBITDA based on regular Standard & Poors Credit reports since that time. But there are untold costs, including those of international expansion, and the cost of getting legalized nationwide and internationally that no other professional sport has had to deal with.
Still, anyone who has been around fighting at any level knows the stories of the fighters who arent big stars, in UFC, or other organizations, who struggle by for little money, sleep on friends couches and even go into debt trying to pursue a fighting career.
The reality is that nobody wanted to talk for attribution, said Barr. We talked to everyone. We talked to guys who made millions of dollars, guys in between, and guys at the bottom end of the pay scale.
Erick Silva came out and destroyed Carlo Prater in :29. After Silva knocked Prater down with a knee to the body, he landed 12 punches on the ground, most to the side of the head, and one to the back of the head, before the match was called by referee Mario Yamasaki. However, with everyone expecting that Silva had won, Yamasaki, in the role of Stanley Blackburn or Tommy Young doing a version of the Dusty finish, told ring announcer Bruce Buffer that Silva didnt win, but was instead disqualified for punches to the back of the head.
Joe Rogan, in the ring, called over Yamasaki and they watched the replay. The replay showed one inadvertent punch to the back of the head in the flurry. Something like that is commonplace in finishes, because heads move when punches are thrown and in flurries at the finish these things happen. The general rule is that if an illegal blow, such as a punch behind the head or a head-butt or an accidental illegal knee ends a fight, but is not intentional, it would be ruled a no contest. It also could go to the cards if the bout has gone past a certain point, but that wouldnt be applicable here. But a DQ call would be for an intentional blow, which even if you are going to call the foul, which is virtually never called in this situation, it shouldnt have been a DQ.
Dana White texted horrible to us right after the finish, and went on twitter and at the press conference, while pointing out Yamasaki is a good referee, that he made a bad call. He also paid Silva his win bonus and, like when Jon Jones was disqualified against Matt Hamill, UFC is going to treat it when it comes to booking direction that Silva is coming off a win and on a streak of sub-one-minute wins. He also encouraged Silva to protest the decision.
But since the show was in Brazil, with no athletic commission, that means it falls to the hands of Marc Ratner, the Vice President of Regulatory Affairs for UFC. Ratner acts as the presiding commissioner in places like Brazil and Europe. Ratner was going to review the tape on 1/17. The issue is, I dont know that they can give Silva the win as most would want because Yamasaki said that he did warn Silva, and the punch to the back of the head came after the warning, and even though Prater was done and even had injured his shoulder, Yamasakis stoppage was in his mind calling a DQ, not a stoppage because Prater was unable to defend himself, even though he was not defending himself. So at best it would be ruled a no contest on the intent issue.
Nevada has a provision where, if there is a judgment call regarding an illegal move or something related to the actual finish of the fight, the referee can watch a replay and change his mind. Yamasaki didnt change his call or appear to want to when Rogan showed him the tape, and UFC itself doesnt have that rule in place. Although this might lead to such a thing being changed when UFC regulates its own shows.
Later, in the Belfort vs. Johnson fight, ref Dan Miragliotta ordered two stand-ups after very short periods after Johnson had taken Belfort down. He also ordered a break almost immediately when the two were in a clinch. While I dont buy this for a second, as a fan not knowing anything, it would have appeared that Miragliotta was doing everything he could to facilitate Belfort winning. And given the controversy regarding Johnson, who was expected to be fired over not making weight, and that this was a UFC regulated show, you can see where people would have suspicion. The Rio de Janeiro crowd was quick to boo any type of slowdown in the action, particularly when the Brazilian hero was on his back against an American and little was happening.
The subject of the pay of UFC fighters, which gets heavily debated every week or two on Internet message boards when certain athletic commissions release the pay information at shows, was the subject of an ESPN feature and web site article over the past few days, as well as a Yahoo article.
The investigative series Outside the Lines looked at fighter pay on a show that included an interview with Zuffa CEO Lorenzo Fertitta, that aired on 1/15 on ESPN 2. Even before the piece aired, UFC President Dana White started bad-mouthing it on his twitter, but more claiming UFC is chomping at the bit to discredit it.
Im excited to smash and discredit ESPN and the piece they did!! So pumped, was one of numerous tweets sent out by White while he was in Rio de Janeiro promoting UFC 142.
We wanted to look at what the pay scale is presently, it was not our intent to do the story on how UFC has grown exponentially, noted John Barr, the ESPN reporter who put together the piece. We feel that piece has been done. We paid some lip service to that. The main goal is what these guys are making at a time when the company has its first significant deal with a broadcast network and pay-per-view shows are as profitable as ever, what is the reality of fighters pay, not the top 5-10% of the fighters, but fighters across the board.
The actual piece was about six or seven minutes long, followed by a panel discussion of the topic with Robert Maysey, a lawyer who follows the sport and has attempted to get fighters to work together to garner merchandising deals and perhaps unionizing, former heavyweight champion Ricco Rodriguez, who praised Fertitta but claimed he was blackballed out of UFC by White, and Josh Gross, a reporter for ESPNs web site, who White has probably been more critical of than any reporter with the possible exception of Loretta Hunt.
But there is an inherent problem in the story that Barr readily admits. When covering a major sport, what the athletes earn is a matter of public record due to collective bargaining agreements. Trying to figure out what fighters make, and what UFC makes, is more difficult. UFC is a private company, and while they do release live gate information after most of their shows, that is the extent of financial information the company releases. The big revenue streams, whether it be pay-per-view revenue, television rights fees both foreign and domestic, any merchandising revenue, sponsorship income are all kept private.
And when it comes to fighters salaries, while some athletic commissions do release the base pay numbers, particularly Nevada, which is the companys home base and where they run the most often, many do not.
Plus, most importantly, the vast majority of the money UFC pays fighters is not released. You dont have to look any farther than Alistair Overeem, who defeated Brock Lesnar in the main event of UFCs last show in Las Vegas.
Overeems publicly listed pay for the show was $264,285.71 as base pay, plus he received $121,428.57 as his winning bonus. However, a lawsuit filed against Overeem by Knock Out Investments, the parent company of Golden Glory, Overeems former management, revealed what the Nevada pay sheets dont say and what most are in the dark about.
Overeem received a $1 million signing bonus upon inking his UFC contact, with the money spread over his first three fights, meaning he received another $333,333.33 guaranteed for the Lesnar fight. But for Overeem, and virtually every UFC main event fighter on pay-per-view, the number publicly talked about and the real number arent even close, due to pay-per-view percentages, which vary based on the fighter.
In the interview, Fertitta noted that 29 UFC fighters have such deals where they get a percentage of pay-per-view revenue. In the case of Overeem, he was to receive $2 per buy after Zuffa company pay-per-view revenue for the show topped $500,000, which would be roughly the first 23,000 buys. If the pay-per-view did 800,000 buys, that would be an additional $1,554,000, putting his total pay in excess of $2.2 million.
The problem is that without the lawsuit, people would be thinking Overeem earned $385,714.28 for headlining a major show. His opponent, Lesnar, was listed as earning $400,000 for the show, but the reality is he also had a pay-per-view bonus locked in, and since he was the more established draw, his bonus percentage would likely be significantly higher.
Within the MMA industry, those complaining about fighter pay continually throw out numbers, usually claiming that only 10% of revenue that UFC brings in trickles its way down to the fighters. But that figure is ridiculous. But what the real figure is for the most part is unknown, because virtually every revenue stream, as well as the actual pay most fighters receive, is also unknown.
What we did is reach out to fighters, managers, some folks who have worked for Zuffa, and use that 2010 Standard & Poors report that 75% of revenue comes from pay-per-view and live events, said Barr. We tried to understand all the revenue streams, pay-per-view itself, costs of production, marketing, all of that stuff. Thats one piece of it. Then, what the guys get paid. We know whats reported, but we know about all that off the books money, so you have to piece together many parts.
So you wound up with ranges. Most people come up with a number thats 10%, some say 6-7%, some high-teens. Lorenzo is on the record saying thats ridiculous, and is closer toward what the established leagues pay. I didnt press him on that, but did ask if theyre paying close to 50% and he said, `Yes.
Monte Cox, an agent who has 70 fighters under contract, 16 of who are under contract to Zuffa, said how except for the fighters at the top, the rest are struggling and that you dont negotiate deals with UFC, you take what they offer.
The FTC does have some type of investigation going into Zuffa. The piece said it was an investigation of whether purchasing Strikeforce for $34 million (a dollar figure that Fertitta said on camera for the first time) has led to UFC becoming a monopoly.
Obviously, UFC is not a monopoly, as shown by the different promotions on HDNet, as well as Bellator having television deals. But they control almost every marketable fighter on the North American scene with the exception of a few. It is difficult for a fighter to make a good living outside UFC, although there are exceptions, like Eddie Alvarez, who earns well into the six figures per fight in Bellator. But for those fighters, its impossible for them to be considered the best, no matter how many fights they win. And its difficult for them to even be considered in the rankings, because to be ranked highly you have to beat guys ranked highly as a general rule, almost all of which are under contract to Zuffa.
Fertitta said UFC has paid out about a quarter-billion in fighter salaries since 2005. But that number would not be anywhere close to 50% of revenues. Fertitta said in a Sports Business Journal article a few months back that the company grosses $400 million per year. Standard & Poors has access to their financial information because UFC works on the money of outside bondholders, but only a limited amount gets published. But UFC has been highly profitable from 2006 to the present, with estimates of $76 million in 2006 and a significantly higher profit number in 2010. With PPV falling, the 2011 numbers are likely significantly lower since PPV is the main revenue stream. But those criticizing the numbers have pointed out that $250 million doesnt appear to add to anywhere near 50% of total company revenue over the past six or seven years for a company that probably hit close to or surpassed the $200 million in revenue range by 2006 and has grown significantly almost every year since then. With PPV bonuses being built into more contracts, Fertitta said that pay to fighters has grown at double the rate of the increase in revenue, which means that whatever the percentage was a few years ago, it would be significantly higher now.
The difference between claims UFC pays 8% and 50% is quite the range and the difference between what could be considered gross underpayment and what would be considered fair payment at least based on the standards of major sports. There is no way the number is anywhere close to 8% as noted in our previous attempts at estimates.
In an attempt to use figures based on Zuffas percentage of an 800,000 buy show, which is at best an estimate of how the show did, the $3.1 million live gate, using listed fighter pay, announced bonuses, estimates of unannounced bonuses (admittedly extremely tricky), and percentages of payper-view revenue built into the main eventers contracts, and you get a very rough figure of 28% of revenue off that event going to talent, and given the bonus structure, that estimate is more likely a little low than a little high. However, for the 1/7 Strikeforce show in Las Vegas, that figure could easily have been greater than 50%.
In an attempt by (ESPN reporter Josh) Gross and ESPN to do a hack job on us, we were ready this time!, White posted. We are gonna blast these hacks!
He also wrote, Trust me, I have been part of ESPN hack jobs, thats why I dont do those BS shows and why we filmed it.
ESPN doesnt care about this sport, ESPN hates this sport, they hate this sport, they wont even cover it, they dont tell the great stories about this sport, they dont tell stories about the fighters, do you ever see an in-depth story about great fighters, hell no you dont, said White in a video UFC produced as a counter argument. You see this garbage Outside the Lines.
Theyre dirty. They lie, and they never really give you really all the facts. You cant even watch stuff like this on TV. From now on, thats why I didnt participate in the interview, I refused to participate in the interview, I will never participate in anymore interviews like that, and if I do, I will only do that if we film them filming us.
Its a difficult task to know what is and isnt fair. For one, UFC, as a business, is structured completely differently than the big four team sports, which pay closer to half of total revenue to the athletes. Its structured differently than boxing, where the major names fighters earn significantly more than UFCs biggest draws. Georges St. Pierre recently said that he earns $4 million to $5 million per fight, but that figure likely includes sponsorship revenue. UFC has costs associated with producing and marketing shows, and front office expenses, and international expansion costs that a boxing organization doesnt have.
Plus, the draw in UFC is different than boxing. In boxing, most pay-per-view shows do less than 50,000 buys, but big draws like Manny Pacquiao can do significantly more than 1 million buys, and at a higher price point than a UFC show. Floyd Mayweather vs. Victor Ortiz, for example, grossed $78 million just on pay-per-view revenue, while if UFC 141 was Zuffas biggest show of the year and did 800,000 buys, that would be a gross of closer to $36 million, and Zuffa only gets a percentage in the range of half of that. Between live gate and estimated revenue the fight generates originally to the promoters, Mayweather vs. Ortiz would be $48 million and UFC 141 would be around $21 million. Ortiz received a $2 million guarantee and we dont know what, if any, percentage he may or may not have received. Mayweather received a $25 million guarantee, plus a percentage of all revenue, and is believed to have taken in somewhere near $40 million. Three other fighters on the show earned six figures, most notably Erik Morales at $350,000. But four received less than $10,000 including two prelim fighters who each received $1,500. There are also site fees, HBO replay revenues, and tons of other revenues involved. The general rule for a big boxing event is 70% goes to the fighters, and in this case, it may have been more. But both sports are structured differently.
For the 11/12 Pacquiao vs. Marquez fight in Las Vegas, not including PPV cuts (the show did 1.41 million PPV buys, the largest number for any U.S. PPV event since UFC 100), Marquez received $5 million and Pacquiao received $6 million, while Tim Bradley received $1,025,000 and Joel Casamayor received $100,000. Of the 16 fighters on the show, six were paid less than $10,000 with a low of $1,200.
Virtually every UFC show will do at least 200,000 buys, but the top ceiling for the biggest events isnt as high, because UFC big events still dont get nearly the level of mainstream media coverage of a Pacquiao fight. While the main event most often is the key, the main eventers dont draw as much additional revenue as the two big boxing stars who make tens of millions. Plus, as a general rule, UFC pays undercard fighters better, and markets the shows around the top several matches on a card as opposed to just one match.
The closest business model to UFC is that of World Wrestling Entertainment, which is believed to pay in the range of 13-15% of its total revenue to its performers. And thats not perfect either because while pro wrestling historically has been about main event wrestlers drawing money, it is no more of a touring brand. Big matches and main event names do make a difference to ratings, PPV and to a small degree, house shows, but not nearly at the level main event UFC fighters do. While some will argue WWE is performance art and not a real athletic competition and thus the performers dont deserve as much, the dollars WWE derives from its performers is every bit as green as those which UFC derives.
Like UFC, but unlike major sports franchises, both WWE and UFC employ hundreds of full-time front office workers, so comparing the percentage they pay to, say, an NFL team, with far less employees, isnt necessarily a fair comparison. But on the other hand, like UFC, WWE has been a very profitable business built off the bodies of its performers, for the past several years.
From 2001 to 2004, UFC lost tens of millions of dollars. Fertitta talked of losing $10-12 million in the first year and a similar amount in successive years until getting the television deal. If you are talking about what the fighters were earning then, which is a lot less than now, it was significantly more than the company could afford and remain in business for the long-term. UFC pays more than other organizations, but almost every major MMA company existing collapsed due to financial issues, often paying fighters more than the companies derived in revenue.
In fact, UFC itself before 2005 nearly collapsed under the weight of the debt. But in 2005, the company turned the corner, thanks to a television deal with Spike, and has been running with significantly high EBITDA based on regular Standard & Poors Credit reports since that time. But there are untold costs, including those of international expansion, and the cost of getting legalized nationwide and internationally that no other professional sport has had to deal with.
Still, anyone who has been around fighting at any level knows the stories of the fighters who arent big stars, in UFC, or other organizations, who struggle by for little money, sleep on friends couches and even go into debt trying to pursue a fighting career.
The reality is that nobody wanted to talk for attribution, said Barr. We talked to everyone. We talked to guys who made millions of dollars, guys in between, and guys at the bottom end of the pay scale.
TheKaeptain
Banned
It's like I am reading a journal from the early 1800's.
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