eggandI said:Not surprising at all. Wanna see for yourself? check BakaBT's top 10 most active torrents.
There really is nobody to blame but anime fans :lol
Edit:
And just what are you implying with the hentai results? :lol
eggandI said:Not surprising at all. Wanna see for yourself? check BakaBT's top 10 most active torrents.
There really is nobody to blame but anime fans :lol
I blame the fansubbers for no reason at all.eggandI said:Not surprising at all. Wanna see for yourself? check BakaBT's top 10 most active torrents.
There really is nobody to blame but anime fans :lol
Geneijin said:Edit:
And just what are you implying with the hentai results? :lol
tokkun said:I only had to watch for 6 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dS7trB7O84
lethial said:I'm curious to know the opinions of the dudes who collect all those dolls and creepy Japanese magazines on this topic.
lethial said:![]()
I'm curious to know the opinions of the dudes who collect all those dolls and creepy Japanese magazines on this topic.
That in a pile of trash you can still find some great shows?eggandI said:The rankings speak for themselves :lol
I hate anime. I love anime, but I hate anime.tokkun said:I only had to watch for 6 seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dS7trB7O84
it loses alot of merit in the yandere/when they cry section though.Jexhius said:After 20 pages of discussion I'm surprised no-one has linked to any fairly detailed explanations of Moe. One of the easiest to read articles with good examples would be Colony Drop's look at the subject. http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2009/11/10/moe-studies-the-fetishization-of-mental-illness-early-wip-1?blog=1 It's probably a useful look because it is a well rounded description.
eggandI said:The rankings speak for themselves :lol
Jexhius said:*cut
Jexhius said:Also what the hell, why does no-one inthe world like Michiko e Hatchin? That show was surprisingly excellent, featured stunning animation and was largely focused on the plights of fairly strong female characters. Quite a few episodes where stand alone episodes yet the whole show felt fairly consistent. Ah well.
I've been screaming about this show for quite a while, in this thread as well, but no one seems to care.Jexhius said:Also what the hell, why does no-one inthe world like Michiko e Hatchin? That show was surprisingly excellent, featured stunning animation and was largely focused on the plights of fairly strong female characters. Quite a few episodes where stand alone episodes yet the whole show felt fairly consistent. Ah well.
Let's not get carried away with this loli branding. You can have children in stories and not sexualize them, you know.Lain said:The show was pretty good and there are many that like it (I'm one of them).
But the show focuses, as you put it, on the plight of two fairly strong female characters (of which one is a loli).
That's enough to shrink the percentage of people that might be interested, imo.
Novid said:That pic is just says soo much.
As for the Ecchi mags - a friend of mine collects some of them - but he states they were better between the 70's and the 80's. Not to say there isnt good works but there in a state of confusion/flux on should they go mainstream as the mainstream becomes more like those folk, or are they gonna be mainstream by default? Intresting times.
There was a post on these dolls on this board...dont know the link.
Not sure what's up in this thread (tastes should be better around here), but yeah, having strong female characters with realistic (non-moe) flaws (and one with well-realized and confident sexuality) limits the appeal of a show pretty fast around most parts of the weeaboonet. The relationship between Michiko, the immature and selfish mother, and daughter Hatchin, who's scrappy and self-reliant from being on her own, feels genuine.Brobzoid said:I've been screaming about this show for quite a while, in this thread as well, but no one seems to care.![]()
Ecchi is the 'i can't believe its not butter' of Hentai.lethial said:Sorry what's Ecchi? I don't remember when, but in one of the pick up threads some guy had magazines with cartoon kids all over them wearing next to nothing.
It's more like your PG-13 or R-rated sex comedies as opposed to your porno.Brobzoid said:I think ecchi is hentai marketed towards people who don't want to commit fully to being branded a hentai consumer, but still wants that type of content.
So you're saying there are aspects of moe and lolicon that are not completely negative and that shouldn't be eradicated?Pandaman said:I dislike how people are using moe and loli as a catchall term for percieved negative aspects.
falconzss said:
Pandaman said:it loses alot of merit in the yandere/when they cry section though.
yes.jiji said:So you're saying there are aspects of moe and lolicon that are not completely negative and that shouldn't be eradicated?
I... don't agree at all!Pandaman said:'Haibane renmei is moe' = correct
jiji said:I... don't agree at all!
I don't think Yoshitoshi Abe would agree, either:
http://theeasternstandard.blogspot.com/2009/02/yoshitoshi-abe-on-moe.html
Better than Kagami/Tsuka--Geneijin said:You'd be surprised what fans would think.
As someone who watched Lucky Star, the Konata-Kagami yuri thing some fans said was there baffled me. I just don't see it and I still don't.
somebody voted that Lain was moe? the fuck?jiji said:I... don't agree at all!
I don't think Yoshitoshi Abe would agree, either:
http://theeasternstandard.blogspot.com/2009/02/yoshitoshi-abe-on-moe.html
Pandaman said:'ARIA is shit'
In terms of how they're used by anime/manga fans:Pandaman said:Ecchi is the 'i can't believe its not butter' of Hentai.
You're reading what you want to see into it. If it's not intended as moe, it's not moe.Pandaman said:somebody voted that Lain was moe? the fuck?
but yea, the haibane anime fits snuggly into moe, i mean its basically a long break the cutie plot with a daughter character as your protagonist. how isn't it moe?
Halycon said:Better than Kagami/Tsuka--
I'm not even going to go there.
GDGF said:I wonder how many lolifans bought Fantastic Children only to throw it away in frustration because it wasn't what they thought it would be.
Pandaman said:yes.
'Haibane renmei is moe' = correct
people seem to forget that alot if not most of Moe is intended to be nonsexual. But hey, why watch a good show when you can rage over shitty-porn-show-of-the-season as if it represents the entire genre.
As for loli, I honestly don't care. they're moving pictures, i have trouble being bothered by such things, if there are a legion of pedos out there supporting a harmless legal alternative to child exploitation then i say that's reason enough to keep it around.
Geneijin said:but lolis can still like lolis without moe moments.
eggandI said:What? translation?
why would that be the 'least of which'? If it prevents just one law abiding pedophile from monitarily supporting child abusers, abductors or worse yet becoming one his or herself, then that would be the greatest of reasons to justify anything.Jexhius said:I don't think anyone has claimed that 'loli' porn is as bad as 'real' pedophile pornography. Yet that doesn't mean we have to claim that it has any redemable features, the least of which would be to keep pedophiles entertained so they don't go and get 'real' porn.
they are moe shows in every sense of the word, they are character driven sequential shows that feature prominent 'weak' and 'cute' characters growing through their difficulties. the idea is you d'awwwwwwwwwwwww and want them to succeed at whatever they're doing, its textbook nonsexualized moe.Furthermore the two shows you mentioned aren't really 'moe' shows. Moe is a certain trait that characters have. If the show contains certain characters who could be classified as 'moe' that doesn't automatically make it a moe show. A moe show has to have few redeeming features beyond that, it's aim is simply to provide a whole host of these characters in situations where they can be super moe. Azumanga Daioh may have moe character types but it is clearly a comedy.
I'd just like to second this distinction.Geneijin said:Moe and loli have always been two separate enough definitions to me. loli I would generalize as someone sexually attractive to young looking girls while moe is similar to saying "kawaii," or refering to something cute a character does. I never saw moe as meaning exclusively young "budding" girls in cute fashion really (or something like that).
Pandaman said:well, aside from the italian characters love of boobs it isn't sexual per say, but its rife with fanservice.
for example, in one episode a character steals another characters panties, which leads to the victim stealing yet another chracters panties which leads to... well, suffice to say there was atleast one pantiless character in every scene. keep in mind that pants were never invented in strike witches.
funnily enough, it was a surprisingly accurate portrayal of the ace the character was based on.
yep. (nsfw)Lyte Edge said:WTF?
Pandaman said:
Pandaman said:I'd just like to second this distinction.
its just unfortunate that usually tatseful moe characters become lolibait when the fans get to them. there are some nice exceptions though. i'm happy to say i've never seen haibane or aria porn and i don't want that to change.
WHAT?keep in mind that pants were never invented in strike witches.
Pandaman said:they are moe shows in every sense of the word, they are character driven sequential shows that feature prominent 'weak' and 'cute' characters growing through their difficulties. the idea is you d'awwwwwwwwwwwww and want them to succeed at whatever they're doing, its textbook nonsexualized moe.
this is exactly what i meant earlier, you're deriding moe down to be nothing but selfless bobblehead lolis wandering around being vapid for 26 episodes.
Tamanon said:Remember guys, Strike Witches is never sexualized!
this is where the problem is, you're looking at moe as if it must be conscious milking of the otaku and that a moe show couldn't possibly have any depth to it. both haibane and ARIA revolve around protagonists who are unabashedly moe, its cute scene followed by cute scene followed by cute scene, it also so happens that these scenes correlate with a well written character driven story, but that doesn't change the fact that the characters are moe and do cute things alot.Jexhius said:You said it was a moe show yet just because it features 'cute' characters doesn't make it a moe show. A moe show is presumably a show created to centre around moe characters doing cute things - some shows may fit that description but not many. When a show, like Haibane Renmei, appears it may illicit a 'moe' response in the viewer yet the show is built around a premise with characters and some slowly filled in story line. It's is not this product that is designed to cater to a certain fanbase (one can hope)
I agree, although i might not over the specific response a moe character may invoke. i would say there are several, both sexual and 'innocent'.To make things somewhat clearer I'll borrow a defintion from Patrick Galbraith, whose essay I linked to above "...the word moe indicates a response to fantasy characters, not a specific style, character type or relational pattern." Any character who draws such response out of the audience is 'moe', be it in anime or films or any medium.
no argument here, there certainly is an active milking of the fanbase by dailing the moe up to 11. Remember i'm only objecting to people using the term solely for the negative conotations that you just described.It is simply the anime industy that has turned this response, or feeling, into a brand and fetishised it and sold it. When people see a show that is designed soley to create this one response they have every right to not watch it - yet if a whole host of shows are like this then there may be nothing much to watch.
Pandaman said:this is where the problem is, you're looking at moe as if it must be conscious milking of the otaku and that a moe show couldn't possibly have any depth to it. both haibane and ARIA revolve around protagonists who are unabashedly moe, its cute scene followed by cute scene followed by cute scene, it also so happens that these scenes correlate with a well written character driven story, but that doesn't change the fact that the characters are moe and do cute things alot.
anotheriori said:Read the colony drop article and it came off as sensationistic. You can make any kind of argument if you deconstruct all the characters down and focus on specific tropes.