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[Sein]

Also can we STOP this fucking "failure as parents" bullshit? I'll like to see any of you try to bring up a kid, and then have him kill himself because of his OWN personal problems, find him dead in his room in front of his computer with Everquest on and then have people accuse you have being a FAILURE AS A PARENT when you try to help others with problems like your son did before it's too late. Less talk, more action. Talk is cheap especially when you don't know the person and are free to make broad accusations and assumptions without having to ever worry about being accurate or even respectful.

Give me a break. You're trying to impose an impossible standard for being qualified to speak on this matter. You realize, of course, that under your standard, not even you are qualified to comment unless you have a child who killed himself while playing Everquest? So either stop telling us to shut up or shut the hell up yourself.

 

[duckroll]

Give me a break. You're trying to impose an impossible standard for being qualified to speak on this matter. You realize, of course, that under your standard, not even you are qualified to comment unless you have a child who killed himself while playing Everquest?

I'm NOT talking about being qualified to speak on the matter. I'm talking about being disrespectful. People here are blatently disrespectful of parents and overgeneralizing everything into "aw she should just stfu and brought up her kid right" which is fucking sad. If you want to speak about the matter, sure, but "hahahah blame the entertainment industry? bring up your own kid properly first you failure!" is uncalled for, and I think you'll agree on that.

 

[Goreomedy]

I think mainstream observers who glance at the MMORPG world and see a big racket have some good reason to. While they don't understand the nuances and some of the true nature of the videogame community, they're also not blinded by being too close to the problem.

Why should companies like Sony Online be responsible for someone who neglects their own life to level up in a fantasy world? I know people who spend as much time with online FPS's as some addicted MMORPGers. Do you turn that same critical eye to Bungie and Microsoft for clan support, rankings, subscription fees, and upcoming downloadable content?

We're responsible for ourselves and our children. Demonizing a genre or media type and ignoring the problem helps no one.

More focus on what loads the gun, please. Because many things can trigger it.

And Duckroll, you've been the most "dismissive" punk in this thread.

 

[Sein]

I'm NOT talking about being qualified to speak on the matter. I'm talking about being disrespectful. People here are blatently disrespectful of parents and overgeneralizing everything into "aw she should just stfu and brought up her kid right" which is fucking sad. If you want to speak about the matter, sure, but "hahahah blame the entertainment industry? bring up your own kid properly first you failure!" is uncalled for, and I think you'll agree on that.

Iapetus is right. You're seeing what you want to see. You've been levelling the above complaint throughout this thread, but only one person has blamed the mother's child-rearing for the suicide, and that was just recently posted. If you can cite another example, please do.

 

[duckroll]

Why should companies like Sony Online be responsible for someone who neglects their own life to level up in a fantasy world? I know people who spend as much time with online FPS's as some addicted MMORPGers. Do you turn that same critical eye to Bungie and Microsoft for clan support, rankings, subscription fees, and upcoming downloadable content?

We're responsible for ourselves and our children. Demonizing a genre or media type and ignoring the problem helps no one.

More focus on what loads the gun, please. Because many things can trigger it.

And Duckroll, you've been the most "dismissive" punk in this thread.

Look, I think everyone is in agreement that Sony Online is NOT responsible for anything. But games -can- be addictive like anything else, so there's really nothing wrong with having a support group for it. Why look at it as demonizing a genre? Alchohol isn't banned, smoking isn't banned, MMORPGs aren't banned. Many people can handle them with no problems, some people can't and if they need help it's good to know it's available.

Why can't we leave it as that instead of looking at everything in black and white and games having 0% fault, and parents having 100% fault? There's so much disgusting mudslinging around, how am I being dismissive? Who's the one ignoring the problem here? There are many factors to what might cause tragedies like this. The games are a factor, the games weren't created IN ORDER TO CAUSE HIM TO BE LIKE THIS, but they were a factor by his indulgence in them. The woman's son killed himself, and people are calling her names because she suggested that a game might have some relation to his intention to end his life and his lifestyle in general. I'm not sure which is more disgusting, because the game has no feelings, it's a fucking game, if she hates the game for life I don't blame her. But she's a person and the dead person is a person too, have we really become so attached to gaming that we cannot sympathize?

 

[_Angelus_]

Poor guy,sucks at what happened to him. The same goes for the mom. Must have been comunication problems I dunno. I mean you *have* to see the signs there before the suicide occured. I don't mean to preach because I hate people who do that,but I also hate reading any sort of depressing news like this,this suicide could have been avoided with the proper assistance. Like having a social worker or shrink have both the mom and son open up and deal with the addiction at hand.

I can also see her full of rage at this very moment though,she just lost her own flesh and blood, the baby she has raised since she gave birth to, thats not easy to live with. Human behavior doesn't always make sense. If you just lost a loved one to an addiction you'd be pretty damn bitter. Youre going to react and more than likely a person may tend to react rather irrationaly than think things through properly. Its a very touchy issue.

 

[duckroll]

Iapetus is right. You're seeing what you want to see. You've been levelling the above complaint throughout this thread, but only one person has blamed the mother's child-rearing for the suicide, and that was just recently posted. If you can cite another example, please do.

Take a look at the general callousness of this thread:

I blame Everquest for this man's failed life!

Well, he had to stop watching Pokemon....

Good think I'm not weak and pathetic, then I might become addicted to a video game and kill myself.

At least she had enough class not to camp his corpse.

Maybe she should focus more on what caused her son's depression and personality disorder and less on the game he used to fill that void in his life?

This is a question about personal responsibility, but those in the entertainment industry shouldn't be expected to pay the consequences for someone else's self-neglect.

Darwin award.

Yeah MMORPG's are addictive...for a few months until you get tired of them. This mother is the one who can't grasp reality. If it hadn't been the game something else would have triggered this. He had serious mental problems and SHOULD NOT have been playing the game in the first place. Someone needs to form "Mothers in denial anonymous".

People blaming the entertainment industry, and not their own failure as parents, for what happens to their kids? When the fuck did this start happening? :rolleyes

Please tell me now, am I wrong in saying people are being fucking insensitive and callous now? Or can these all be interpretated in ways which I in my infinite blindness might not have seen?

 

[Sein]

Please tell me now, am I wrong in saying people are being fucking insensitive and callous now? Or can these all be interpretated in ways which I in my infinite blindness might not have seen?

Your inexplicable rage has obviously blinded you. Or perhaps you're crying. Please pay attention this time.

This is what you posted before:

People here are blatently disrespectful of parents and overgeneralizing everything into "aw she should just stfu and brought up her kid right" which is fucking sad.

I responded that you're the one who's overgeneralizing. Only one person in this thread has blamed the mother's parenting, yet you've imputed that one comment on the rest of us. How does that work?

Why can't we leave it as that instead of looking at everything in black and white and games having 0% fault, and parents having 100% fault? There's so much disgusting mudslinging around, how am I being dismissive? Who's the one ignoring the problem here? There are many factors to what might cause tragedies like this. The games are a factor, the games weren't created IN ORDER TO CAUSE HIM TO BE LIKE THIS, but they were a factor by his indulgence in them. The woman's son killed himself, and people are calling her names because she suggested that a game might have some relation to his intention to end his life and his lifestyle in general. I'm not sure which is more disgusting, because the game has no feelings, it's a fucking game, if she hates the game for life I don't blame her. But she's a person and the dead person is a person too, have we really become so attached to gaming that we cannot sympathize?

The problem is that the mother's crusade is misguided. The "addiction" is merely a symptom of the true disorder. Focusing on such addiction could do more harm than good if it diverts attention from the underlying problem. For example, Woolley's son suffered from depression and schizoid personality disorder. Breaking free from his online gaming habit would not amount to treatment of these disorders.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

People find all kinds of escapes from reality in this world. Drugs, Sex, Alcohol, etc. And each of these can become horribly addictive. Same is true here for games. Each situation is different and why people find things like the above, games, or whatever to escape the real world is very complex. I wouldn't blame anyone, but the woman has a right to do what she did. Playing a game like that 10 hours a day continuously is unhealthy. Perhaps games like that need to make changes to avoid making it so easy to spend vast amounts of time in them. I don't know. Maybe it's a discussion that needs to take place.

 

[duckroll]

I responded that you're the one who's overgeneralizing. Only one person in this thread has blamed the mother's parenting, yet you've imputed that one comment on the rest of us. How does that work?

Actually I count 3 people having made comments like that.

The problem is that the mother's crusade is misguided. The "addiction" is merely a symptom of the true disorder. Focusing on such addiction could do more harm than good if it diverts attention from the underlying problem. For example, Woolley's son suffered from depression and schizoid personality disorder. Breaking free from his online gaming habit would not amount to treatment of these disorders.

It's a "crusade" now? People that are alchoholics have other problems too, people that are into drugs have other problems for sure. Depression is without doubt on the list for just about ANYONE with an addiction. Does that mean there should be no support groups? How do you get them on a road to recovery treating their read problems if they don't cure themselves of their addiction first? I don't see why you're so against "focusing on such addiction" when it IS a part of the problem. Maybe you've just never seen for yourself how someone who's really addicted to something is. There are also programs and helps for depression and schizo problems, but addiction to online games is still a very real problem so what's wrong with having a support group? If someone is keen to "clean" himself from online addiction, he's on the right track and no doubt they'll help him deal with his other problems along the way. Stop being so simple-minded.

 

[Sein]

It's a "crusade" now? People that are alchoholics have other problems too, people that are into drugs have other problems for sure. Depression is without doubt on the list for just about ANYONE with an addiction. Does that mean there should be no support groups? How do you get them on a road to recovery treating their read problems if they don't cure themselves of their addiction first? I don't see why you're so against "focusing on such addiction" when it IS a part of the problem. Maybe you've just never seen for yourself how someone who's really addicted to something is. There are also programs and helps for depression and schizo problems, but addiction to online games is still a very real problem so what's wrong with having a support group?

It's hilarious that you're comparing drugs and alcohol with online games. Drugs and alcohol are on a different order of magnitude. They create actual physical dependency. So someone can become addicted even if he is of sound mind and body. With drugs and alcohol, the addiction is the underlying problem from which other problems arise (e.g., criminal behavior).

But games are not inherently addictive in the way that drugs and alcohol are. No person of sound mind and body could become addicted to a game; any addict must have had some underlying problem coming in. With online games, the addiction is merely a symptom of a much more vast problem.

Surely you cannot be so thickheaded as to not recognize the yawning chasm between these two types of addictions.

If someone is keen to "clean" himself from online addiction, he's on the right track and no doubt they'll help him deal with his other problems along the way. Stop being so simple-minded.

The juxtaposition of these two sentences makes me giddy. Thank you.

 

[duckroll]

But games are not inherently addictive in the way that drugs and alcohol are. No person of sound mind and body could become addicted to a game; any addict must have had some underlying problem coming in. With online games, the addiction is merely a symptom of a much more vast problem.

Surely you cannot be so thickheaded as to not recognize the yawning chasm between these two types of addictions.

Sorry, by saying that it shows you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're just sitting on your chair thinking you know it all. I have nothing further to say to you. At least there are some sensible people here.

 

[Socreges]

Many of these people are too weak-willed to change independently. If the crutch of God provides the best chance of them reforming their lives, then maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Sorry, by saying that it shows you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're just sitting on your chair thinking you know it all. I have nothing further to say to you. At least there are some sensible people here.

His "sound" is probably just of a very high standard. And from I've seen of your posts, you wouldn't even meet low ones.

 

[Sein]

Sorry, by saying that it shows you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're just sitting on your chair thinking you know it all. I have nothing further to say to you. At least there are some sensible people here.

I don't claim to know everything, but I do know some things and can draw reasonable extrapolations from them.

And what do you know? You never offered to show us whatever your credentials are. And even if you have some first-hand experience, realize that even a handful of anecdotal evidence makes you no expert. And if you've experienced such an "addiction" yourself, then your lack of objectivity very much undermines your ability to comment.

 

[Goreomedy]

Sorry, by saying that it shows you have no fucking idea what you're talking about and you're just sitting on your chair thinking you know it all. I have nothing further to say to you. At least there are some sensible people here.

Funny you should say that.

I researched addictive personalities and 12 step programs(AA specifically) over two years for a film project.

Maybe you should investigate the failure rate of AA before you put on the John Adams costume and defend something you obviously don't have a fucking clue about.

 

[Ryck]

Wow this thread is an excellent read , very good arguements all around.

 

[duckroll]

Funny you should say that.

I researched addictive personalities and 12 step programs(AA specifically) over two years for a film project.

Maybe you should investigate the failure rate of AA before you put on the John Adams costume and defend something you obviously don't have a fucking clue about.

That wasn't what I meant. I was referring to the bolded statement where he mentioned that no one of sound mind and body can be addicted to a game. That's not true at all. As for failure rates of AA programs, just because something isn't very successful doesn't mean it should exist. After all we still tolerate Sega right?

But I really don't want to discuss this any further because it's pointless and it'll just degenerate into more mudslinging. I've said most of what I want to say, I believe support groups isn't a bad thing at all and I just wish that people would be more respectful in general when dealing with issues like this.

Edit: Sein, maybe I've come across as arrogant in this thread, if so that was not my intention and I apologize. I'm just angry that people can so easily point fingers and insult people they don't even know when a suicide of this nature is involved. It's not a funny thing, it's a sad thing. I'm not advocating the use of religion to cure anyone either nor am I saying game publishers should take responsibility. But the fact remains that there *is* an addiction problem for some people even when games are concerned and I really don't see the harm of a support group like you seem to see. I've stated my reasons. There's no simple solution to this but it just saddens me to see people trash every little effort to help out without doing anything themselves.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Also can we STOP this fucking "failure as parents" bullshit? I'll like to see any of you try to bring up a kid, and then have him kill himself because of his OWN personal problems, find him dead in his room in front of his computer with Everquest on and then have people accuse you have being a FAILURE AS A PARENT when you try to help others with problems like your son did before it's too late. Less talk, more action. Talk is cheap especially when you don't know the person and are free to make broad accusations and assumptions without having to ever worry about being accurate or even respectful.

Well, you have a point in that sometimes the individual himself is as or more responsible as the parents. But the point behind "blame the parents" is that the core of social maturity is a function of personal responsibility, whether your own or your caretaker's. In this particular case, the man was perhaps mentally ill enough that his mother had more personal responsibility for him than he did himself.

 

[jlh]

It's hilarious that you're comparing drugs and alcohol with online games. Drugs and alcohol are on a different order of magnitude. They create actual physical dependency. So someone can become addicted even if he is of sound mind and body. With drugs and alcohol, the addiction is the underlying problem from which other problems arise (e.g., criminal behavior).

But games are not inherently addictive in the way that drugs and alcohol are. No person of sound mind and body could become addicted to a game; any addict must have had some underlying problem coming in. With online games, the addiction is merely a symptom of a much more vast problem.

Actually all addictions are comparable. You can't separate drugs and alcohol out and say well it is physical additiction so it's on another level. That's like saying other addictions aren't really real they're just symptoms of other problems that people have. People with gambling, sex, food, porn, and internet addictions would definately disagree with that analysis. Unfortunately, most of the the people who are susceptible to all kinds of addictions are people who have emotional problems that they can't deal with, so they self-medicate. This guy "medicated" his overall problems with Everquest it really could have been just as easily coke or booze or food or women.

I applaud his mother for trying to help other people who may be going through the same kind of problems as her son find a way out. I remember when this story was first publicized, she didn't come out and blame Sony. If I remember correctly she wanted to find out from Sony how many other people had complained of similar Everquest addictions and maybe a lawsuit was planned to get them to disclose that info. The fact that she is trying to do something that some other people may find helpful is a credit to her and her son's memory.

Also in 12 step programs, you do not have to convert to any religion. If you read the language of the 12 steps it is about how you view your higher power, so if your higher power happens to be some obscure pagan deity whose name has not been spoken for 12 centuries then seek his/her strength in helping you on your path to recovery.

 

[Jak140]

He probably killed himself because his mom was a wack job.


Yeah that sounds curt, but it's to the point. If she hadn't been such a terrible parent maybe he wouldn't have become such a social retard, to the point where he had to turn to online video games as a replacement for human interaction.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Stop deflecting the blame. The problem with online gaming are the losers who waste their lives online, not the game. For fuck's sake, what are we coming to as a society? Are we so afraid of the truth that we have to continue to make excuses and blame other people for obvious problems? Online gaming anonymous? Jesus Christ, where's Stupid People Anonymous? PEACE.

 

[Socreges]

Jesus Christ, where's Stupid People Anonymous? PEACE.

Perhaps down the road. In the meantime, you can find solace here.

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