Correct. But parading him around the store in handcuffs over a suspicion? Seems extreme to me.
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Mom Sues Target Claiming Humiliating Walk Of Shame Upon Firing Led To Sons Suicide
- Thread starter Dalek
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Correct. But parading him around the store in handcuffs over a suspicion? Seems extreme to me.
The Elite
BOSS
I'm sorry but this policy seems really suspect. It would require the cooperation of the police to willing parade someone around in handcuffs.
It's either this store only or something else is up. I'm not buying it as a Target company wide policy.
If it is this store only, Target is still stuck with the blame though.
"Parading" is a choice of words. If I said they were moving him from one part of the store to another in handcuffs it doesn't seem as nefarious.
It's either this store only or something else is up. I'm not buying it as a Target company wide policy.
If it is this store only, Target is still stuck with the blame though.
"Parading" is a choice of words. If I said they were moving him from one part of the store to another in handcuffs it doesn't seem as nefarious.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Yeah if it had happened now I would have laughed it off and told them to take a walk. Didn't know any better back then.
No worries.
I can vouch for this.
It happened once to an employee when I worked at Target in high school.
They walked him the full length of the store in handcuffs.
They are pretty crazy about employee theft.
Was like 9 years ago but i think he stole a digital camera.
I remember there being a few witnesses but I dont know if he was charged for the crime.
It happened once to an employee when I worked at Target in high school.
They walked him the full length of the store in handcuffs.
They are pretty crazy about employee theft.
Was like 9 years ago but i think he stole a digital camera.
I remember there being a few witnesses but I dont know if he was charged for the crime.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Target and law enforcement agencies are very buddy-buddy, I learned this from talking with out store's AP. You should look it up sometime, it's both very intriguing and frightening on some levels.
The Elite
BOSS
I would be interested to read up on that.
It seems like a very strange situation.
A lot of loss prevention officers tend to be former cops.
No shit he shouldn't have killed himself. Suicide is such a difficult thing for people to understand. You can't just put yourself in his shoes and say, "I wouldn't have killed myself in that situation, I've been through much worse". Everybody handles things differently. This may have been the straw that broke the camels back. He could've had other negative things going on in his life at the time. Having Aspergers also plays a role.
Did Target know about his Aspergers ? If so, should they have treated him differently than all of the other employees that have been subjected to "The walk of shame" ? If they didn't know, can they possibly be found responsible for this young mans suicide?
I don't know much about Aspergers. Forgive my ignorance.
There was no false imprisonment here and the police handcuffed him not Target employees. They did so at the request of Target when they wanted to press charges for theft. I posted this a couple pages ago, but theft is one of the few crimes that police can make an arrest for without observing the crime or having an arrest warrant. They can make an arrest based on the accusation.
Handcuffing him is standard procedure when arresting someone. He was arrested, then taken back to the office most likely for a statement, then taken out the door and into a police car where he was then taken for further questioning.
Just because he wasn't charged really has no bearing to whether he did anything illegal or not. There's no way the police officer was in on the "shaming parade" as it's just normally how it's done. Chances are Target just understands police procedure and uses it to their advantage.
Target probably called the police station after they took him away and decided not to press charges after all. It would seem to fit their culture of making an example out of someone to keep other employees in line.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Well... he did kill himself.
So I don't get what you're trying to accomplish by posting this.
Are you saying you're better than a dead guy for being alive?
I'm sure this was not the only thing, but yes, this kind of shit can be traumatic as fuck to someone who does not process emotions and physicality "correctly".
I would have shut down or had a complete mental breakdown. I have no idea how he did not.
So yes, if they knew, as an employer it was their duty to protect their employee.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
[double post
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
they are definitely going to lose the law suit..... they better settle now
It doesn't matter if it was legal in a criminal sense or not.
It has no bearing on potential liability. And that's probably not how it went down. The complaint says there was friction with another coworker so it was probably based on heresay. Now we don't have proof of that right now but it's very possible seeing how some employees in the retail sector are treated. As you say, the cops don't care as they are not doing anything illegal. That doesn't get Target off the hook.
MrSaturn99
Member
This just hit home for me. How awful.
Jest Chillin
Member
Too many people are focusing on the word "Parading."
The problem with the policy is that Managers wait for the suspected employees to come in to work, clock in, and start working in their department. Then they have to Police come in, cuff them, and walk them to the Managers Office. After that to the Cruiser.
This is absolutely done with the intent of making a show to other employees and to customers. The way to do this without making a show of it would be to pull the employee aside before they clock in and bring them into the office.
The only time I could see justification of arresting someone on the spot during their shift would be if Management had knowledge that there had been a theft done that day and they're trying to catch the employee red handed.
The problem with the policy is that Managers wait for the suspected employees to come in to work, clock in, and start working in their department. Then they have to Police come in, cuff them, and walk them to the Managers Office. After that to the Cruiser.
This is absolutely done with the intent of making a show to other employees and to customers. The way to do this without making a show of it would be to pull the employee aside before they clock in and bring them into the office.
The only time I could see justification of arresting someone on the spot during their shift would be if Management had knowledge that there had been a theft done that day and they're trying to catch the employee red handed.
Oh absolutely, Target is still liable and will most likely lose this suit. Even if it's not an official policy, commom and past practice is enough to hang them out to dry.
I was only pointing out the misconception that poster had about being handcuffed and the false imprisonment post they made.
Any customer checking out would absolutely see it.
Several people have posted before, but I want to try explaining to people a bit about Aspergers.
The biggest problem with Aspergers (at least for me, obviously it varies from person to person) is extreme anxiety and uncertainty on how to behave in situations involving interacting with other people. I know that I'm bad at understanding and talking to people, so I have routines for how I do things. Things like starting conversations the same way, having "set responses" to various questions, these are the sort of things I do to help myself cope.
Due to the aforementioned anxiety and uncertainty, in unfamiliar or unstructured settings, I have a tendency to panic and become upset. For example, whenever I have to call my bank or something similar I spend half an hour or so psyching myself up and preparing. This also means that when things go wrong in a social situation, it is much more upsetting for me than it would be for a neurotypical person. I have spent days away from other people and feeling incredibly depressed over minor things that most people would barely even think twice about. Thus, such a public shaming would have a devastating effect on my mental health. While I may not have committed suicide had I been in the same situation, this experience would be hugely traumatic and scarring.
Basically, things like this are much harder to deal with for people with Aspergers.
The biggest problem with Aspergers (at least for me, obviously it varies from person to person) is extreme anxiety and uncertainty on how to behave in situations involving interacting with other people. I know that I'm bad at understanding and talking to people, so I have routines for how I do things. Things like starting conversations the same way, having "set responses" to various questions, these are the sort of things I do to help myself cope.
Due to the aforementioned anxiety and uncertainty, in unfamiliar or unstructured settings, I have a tendency to panic and become upset. For example, whenever I have to call my bank or something similar I spend half an hour or so psyching myself up and preparing. This also means that when things go wrong in a social situation, it is much more upsetting for me than it would be for a neurotypical person. I have spent days away from other people and feeling incredibly depressed over minor things that most people would barely even think twice about. Thus, such a public shaming would have a devastating effect on my mental health. While I may not have committed suicide had I been in the same situation, this experience would be hugely traumatic and scarring.
Basically, things like this are much harder to deal with for people with Aspergers.
Loss prevention people in retail are absolute scum. That whole sector is just filled with people who couldn't hack it in real law enforcement so they think throwing their weight around makes up for it. I have no doubt this is a policy created by Target's LP people.
That job is drying up cuz loss prevention usually does a better job of getting companies sued than saving them money. And in my opinion, as a retail manager dealing with them every day, they can't go away soon enough.
That job is drying up cuz loss prevention usually does a better job of getting companies sued than saving them money. And in my opinion, as a retail manager dealing with them every day, they can't go away soon enough.
sixteen-bit
Member
Fucked up store policy, sheesh.
RadioHeadAche
Member
And they just parade them around the store? Or did they only walk them away?
Random Painted HIghway
Member
sad story. poor kid and poor mom. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, the mother has nothing to lose by pushing this as far as she can without settling. Exposing how things really work at this level would be highly beneficial and depositions can be very illuminating. That said, I am a wait and see how the evidence plays out guy and creatively worded complaints don't excite me, particularly when they are accompanied by press releases. My big 2 questions are-did the store manager know of this kid's issues and how will a jury view causation here. Fascinating stuff. A black eye for target in the public arena regardless of anything else.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
fabricated backlash
Member
The quality of service is rarely ever a display of the staffs competence or character, but more of a direct reflection on how they're treated by their superiors.
This holds true in retail, restaurants, catering, clubs...
Honestly, I think I'd be in jail for manslaughter/murder if I'd have to work at such a place, either smiting one of those customers who thinks they're gods gift to mankind and find pleasure in torturing service personnel while bragging about their wealth, or a superior who thinks that his ridiculous position actually matters to anyone outside of the workplace.
I highly respect all of the people who are able to endure such working conditions.
apocalidiot
Banned
I didn't see it but apparently this happened at the Best Buy I worked out for an employee who stole merchandise.
Karsticles
Member
Petty theft is either an infraction or a misdemeanor in CA. It's not a felony, so it would be unlikely for officers to arrest without some sort of proof. And if store management did lie to the officers, then they could still be liable for false imprisonment.
And the original story doesn't say it was police that handcuffed the kid (the lawsuit may or may not be more specific; didn't see that linked in OP or in the story).
If it was police who did the handcuffing, then it doesn't make sense that that would bring the kid to the back of the store, then the front. If they've place him under arrest, then they should be taking him out of the store and bringing him in for booking.
If it was store security, then any arrest and detainment would have been invalid if any theft didn't occur within view of the store employee.
lol what an asinine and pointless simplification. This is not "Corporate America and Big Retail in a nutshell". Most competent corporations would not include or condone a ridiculous policy like this.
Did it say anywhere that he did not steal anything?
Only that they did not press charges.
Just because the kid had aspergers everyone will run to the defense and battle the tyrants.
But being walked out, with security and making a very public scene of it is nothing new.
They could have made an agreement not to press charges if he did not come back to the store, or many other things could have been in play.
Only that they did not press charges.
Just because the kid had aspergers everyone will run to the defense and battle the tyrants.
But being walked out, with security and making a very public scene of it is nothing new.
They could have made an agreement not to press charges if he did not come back to the store, or many other things could have been in play.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Why would the cops handcuff this guy to walk him to the office?
I kind of understand why they'd cuff him from the office to the cop car (although seems very excessive) by from the front door to the office? What's in it for them? If they were going to arrest / question him, surely they'd just go straight down to the police station to do that?
I kind of understand why they'd cuff him from the office to the cop car (although seems very excessive) by from the front door to the office? What's in it for them? If they were going to arrest / question him, surely they'd just go straight down to the police station to do that?
When I worked at Target, the head of my department fought off a shoplifter who went nuts when he got accused of shoplifting and tried to assault him. He had someone call the police and kept the guy until the police arrived.
They fired him the next day because 'customers saw it' or some shit. And the rent-a-cop wasn't there to do his job because they think people don't steal as much shit at night time. That was what made me quit afterwards. Just how much they don't value or stick up for their employees whatsoever.
They fired him the next day because 'customers saw it' or some shit. And the rent-a-cop wasn't there to do his job because they think people don't steal as much shit at night time. That was what made me quit afterwards. Just how much they don't value or stick up for their employees whatsoever.
elrechazado
Banned
This is all true.
That said, if I ran hr for target or was their employment advisor I would tell them they can legally do this if they want, but I would advise against it for many reasons. Not least of which it's poisonous to company culture.
I have Aspergers too, something I've never shared on the internet or GAF. This is the realest shit ever wrote on the subject.
Fuck, ironically I read this story right before an appointment with my psychologist. We talked about it in length, and I wasn't sure whether I'd have jumped off that ledge, or not.
I'm positive that my pride is the only thing keeping me alive right now. Stripped of that, I don't know....
Fucked up story and I hope Target burns to the ground over this shit.
Yes I have.
Especially enough to see that you are taking this whole situation rather personally instead of going on the facts of the case.
I'm glad you find it to be a good reflection of what things are like for you.
I know exactly where you're coming from man, I feel the same sometimes. If you ever want to talk, feel free to PM me
And yeah,fuck target. If I lived in the US I'd boycott them.
That's because it's probably a local thing.
There is no way if this was standard protocol for the company this wouldn't be known. Local management are probably morons who think they can treat subordinates however they want.
LostCaress
Member
Walking them away = parading in this case. Setting things up so that the arrest is a show is parading. If they'd just caught someone steeling and called the police it would be different. But the intent here was to make an example of the guy, so I think using the term parading is fair even if they went in a straight line.
It's also completely unnecessary, and the article states this is a thing that has happened to other employees. So the question here is actually ddi this event lead to the death of this guy or did it cause enough of an emotional strain that it lead to a mental break?
Because putting someone in handcuffs would require sufficient proof to an officer that a person needed to be arrested.
Otherwise it's just an integrity violation or whatever Target's version of that is, and the only course of action is to terminate.
Jest Chillin
Member
Most likely it's a tactic that is known and used throughout the company at a managers discretion. That's the case with every unofficial policy.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
Fed Ex has (or had) a similar practice, these two company guys will show up, take you to a room, and intimidate, interrogate, and bully you into confessing. They make sure to mention vaguely that you can leave whenever you want and the your not being held against your will, but imply if you walk it's an admittance of guilt.
Walmart calls the cops, have you follow them to the Asset protection office, and sort it out from thete.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Fucked up. Hope she wins
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