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[ChuckeRearmed]

The reason Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan went so poorly is because after a point, a country like the United States literally can't win a traditional war because society loses it's taste for it, the nature of war is women getting raped, civilians getting killed, an overall very bloody and unpleasant business that was only able to be done because the public could be kept in the dark and the only way to win is to win at any cost and not worry about the "optics", but as soon as the age of TV started and people starting seeing images like the Tet Offensive, that was over.

Vietnam war was about ego of LBJ basically. There was no real goals and USA did not go full throttle from the start.
Iraq War originally went well and Saddam was killed fast. But then they decided to play into the nation bulding and perform de-baathification to create a "democracy".
The issue in Afghanistan was basically geography and another case of "nation building".

Voice of america was a democrat propaganda machine. In the age of Internet you don't need any of that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

"He died like a dog."

"Is he crying? I wouldn't have cried."

 

[T-0800]

That was actually a typo. The correct spelling is, "Bored of Peace".

 

[winjer]

Israel's violent apartheid lead to retaliation, then to their continued attack on Gaza.

That's why everyone now recognizes Israel as the villain.

And here comes the lie of the apartheid in Israel.
That is easily disproved by the fact that 23% of the voters in Israel elections are Palestinians. And 1.8% are Cristians. These are people that live, work and vote in Israel. That have normal lives and contribute to society.
Do you know where there is real apartheid? It's in Gaza, where Jews and Christians are not allowed. Where gays are killed in public. Where women have fewer rights than men.

Unintended if you can't predict what happens from one moment to the next. But obvious to most people that violence breeds retaliation.

I mean, look, I don't care if the U.S. wants to continue hurting itself. I'm just saying, it's stupid.

Let's start with the fact that Saddam Hussein was a mass murderer, that oppressed the Iraqi population.
Yes, the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, but for a while it was the best opportunity that Iraq ever had to a democracy.
But the thing is, Islam hates democracy. Hates human rights. Hates women. Hates freedom of speech.
So when Islamists took over the country, of course it descended into a shithole.

 

[vodka-bull]

Yo Khamenei, if you can read this: burn in hell you piece of shit.

 

[Kacho]

Iran is crashing out. That won't be good for them.

 

[AJUMP23]

WarAlago

 

[Ipsi]

 

[EviLore]

WarAlago

Tulsi somewhere underground tied to a chair

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Well it does take a lot of work to replace a government with a system that advances western sensibilities and creates a stable region. The CIA has failed at it several times.

The main hope for Iran is that it has a significantly large educated and secular population so as to make the transition to stability more likely than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Who knows if it'll ever get back to freedom like this. But here's hoping for freedom. I think most of us arent old enough to know that Iran used to be such a rich and free place. All many of us know it what weve seen for decades is cleric dude rule and women dressed like servants. I never knew myself till not too long ago Iran wasnt always suppressed with all that religious stuff.

But wouldnt it be crazy (in a good way) if Iran got back to days like this where everyone can dress how they want in modern times.

 

[Kacho]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well it does take a lot of work to replace a government with a system that advances western sensibilities and creates a stable region. The CIA has failed at it several times.

The main hope for Iran is that it has a significantly large educated and secular population so as to make the transition to stability more likely than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

That's the thing. They said on TV an hour ago, what if Iran's replacement gov is just another similarly hardlined guy who drags it on.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

There is some poetry in the fact that the Islamic Republic was established 47 years ago and Trump being the 47th Also Agent 47.

 

[Badlucktroll]

so khamenei finally got clapped huh

 

[Ipsi]

Taking a break from posting to nap. Stay safe peeps

 

[RagnarokIV]

God bless America.

 

[LordCBH]

 

[deriks]

I saw some people on Instagram saying that the US got Khamenei very quickly, and I remembered a scene from House of Cards when Frank said that would do everything they can do to catch the terrorist who did an attack... and actually they already caught the terrorist and the speech was just for propaganda

Same vibe

 

[Ipsi]

 

[Wilhelm_85]

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/116150413051904167

Absolutely insane if this is true. Taking out their top guy within hours of starting the conflict is just crazy.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Vietnam war was about ego of LBJ basically. There was no real goals and USA did not go full throttle from the start.
Iraq War originally went well and Saddam was killed fast. But then they decided to play into the nation bulding and perform de-baathification to create a "democracy".
The issue in Afghanistan was basically geography and another case of "nation building".


Voice of america was a democrat propaganda machine. In the age of Internet you don't need any of that.

And "nation building" only works when you can go medieval and totally demoralize it's people, but that gets the liberals on TV a bit mad.

Though what's ironic is the left are BIG MAD anyway these days, people used to mock the right for accusing the left of being terrorist sympathizers 20 years ago, now the left are very openly and with much gusto jihadist terrorist sympathizers, they fucking LOVE those guys now, imagine the look on a conservative's face if you showed them the modern left 20 years ago.

Who knows what their reaction will be if this does go well, they'll just ignore reality and say whatever they want to say as usual, "here's why violent oppression of women is a good thing actually!" from the people were thought video game and comic book women in bikinis was literally rape.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Tulsi somewhere underground tied to a chair

 

[Madonis]

Voice of america was a democrat propaganda machine. In the age of Internet you don't need any of that.

That view seems very shortsighted. It was a U.S. propaganda machine that different administrations used for various purposes. If you didn't agree with certain contents, fine, then remove them. No need to gut the whole operation, but then again a bunch of clowns and teenagers (figuratively speaking) came in with DOGE and started to break things without knowing jack shit.

In times like these, you need multiple ways to reach people inside Iran. Internet access has been blocked by the regime. Starlink will surely help, absolutely, but you shouldn't cripple your own efforts on purpose.

 

[Quasicat]

I know that Russia and China have been in talks with Iran over the years about Israel. I imagine that China will sit out of this one, but Russia? Putin's crazy enough to do something.

 

[Kacho]

Very curious to see the response to what's happening there

 

[Badlucktroll]

kim jong dong better be on his best behavior!

 

[AJUMP23]

Life comes at you fast.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

And "nation building" only works when you can go medieval and totally demoralize it's people, but that gets the liberals on TV a bit mad.

Kinda. But the thing is that you cannot just "establish" the democracy if the society is not ready for that. We see it with UK or with Minnesota and how it devolves right now - you just cannot have a democracy in places where you have sectarian voting. People have to grow into the democracy. It worked with Japan because it was a homogenous society without various clans and sects unlike the Middle East. You need to reach a certain level of development to have a proper democracy.

That view seems very shortsighted. It was a U.S. propaganda machine that different administrations used for various purposes. If you didn't agree with certain contents, fine, then remove them. No need to gut the whole operation, but then again a bunch of clowns and teenagers (figuratively speaking) came in with DOGE and started to break things without knowing jack shit.

In times like these, you need multiple ways to reach people inside Iran. Internet access has been blocked by the regime. Starlink will surely help, absolutely, but you shouldn't cripple your own efforts on purpose.

The problem is that a lot of NGOs and organizations like Voice of America, NPR are basically too corrupt to change. It is easier to dismantle them altogether. It is arguably the same problem that plagues the establishment, organizations like FBI or CIA and the judiciary branch or the department of the education. We see it also with a lot of magazines and journals. A lot of those cannot be reformed and can be only laid off or dismantled.

I know that Russia and China have been in talks with Iran over the years about Israel. I imagine that China will sit out of this one, but Russia? Putin's crazy enough to do something.

Nothing is going to happen. For various reasons.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Absolutely insane if this is true. Taking out their top guy within hours of starting the conflict is just crazy.

Probably planned the start of the conflict around the best opportunity to do so, or it'd be even more difficult.

 

[AJUMP23]

The main hope for Iran is that it has a significantly large educated and secular population so as to make the transition to stability more likely than in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Those exist in a lot of Muslim countries.

I think they need a lot of expats to come back and help.

 

[AJUMP23]

Tulsi somewhere underground tied to a chair

Found her.

 

[calico]

That's the thing. They said on TV an hour ago, what if Iran's replacement gov is just another similarly hardlined guy who drags it on.

Then he dies too. It's a strategy of enforced evolution: if the only way to not die within a week is to play ball with the US, they'll soon figure it out.

 

[Forsete]

 

[Madonis]

Though what's ironic is the left are BIG MAD anyway these days, people used to mock the right for accusing the left of being terrorist sympathizers 20 years ago, now the left are very openly and with much gusto jihadist terrorist sympathizers, they fucking LOVE those guys now, imagine the look on a conservative's face if you showed them the modern left 20 years ago.

Who knows what they're reaction will be if this does go well, they'll just ignore reality and say whatever they want to say as usual, "here's why violent oppression of women is a good thing actually!" from the people were thought video game and comic book women in bikinis was literally rape.

Neither the "right" nor the "left" are monolithic about this. You have people on the right who are otherwise pro-Trump being skeptical or upset about this at least to a degree. Conversely, you have people who hate Trump being either relatively or absolutely positive about these Iran strikes. It's a topic where a bunch of different groups will run into each other and end up on unexpected sides of the issue.

That said, it's ultimately a matter of success. People turned against the Iraq War because it became an unpopular quagmire. If this intervention avoids that and otherwise works out, it'll be more widely accepted.

 

[AJUMP23]

Self inflicted wound.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Kinda. But the thing is that you cannot just "establish" the democracy if the society is not ready for that. We see it with UK or with Minnesota and how it devolves right now - you just cannot have a democracy in places where you have sectarian voting. People have to grow into the democracy. It worked with Japan because it was a homogenous society without various clans and sects unlike the Middle East. You need to reach a certain level of development to have a proper democracy.

But that's kinda my point, the idea we would establish democracy was absurd, the only "nation building" that worked throughout history was "we will brutally fucking oppress you and make you absolutely fear to fight back"

Japan was a unique situation, also because they had just been nuked and was very obvious they had no choice, Iraq knew we weren't gonna drop nukes on them.

 

[adamsapple]

Self inflicted wound.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Absolutely insane if this is true. Taking out their top guy within hours of starting the conflict is just crazy.

It looks more like taking out their top guy was the signal to start the conflict

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Neither the "right" nor the "left" are monolithic about this. You have people on the right who are otherwise pro-Trump being skeptical or upset about this at least to a degree. Conversely, you have people who hate Trump being either relatively or absolutely positive about these Iran strikes. It's a topic where a bunch of different groups will run into each other and end up on unexpected sides of the issue.

That said, it's ultimately a matter of success. People turned against the Iraq War because it became an unpopular quagmire. If this intervention avoids that and otherwise works out, it'll be more widely accepted.

What you say is true, but I'm talking about the typical dyed in the wool anti-Trump leftist, they're mad, they will always be mad no matter what he does, Trump could bring about world peace and make everyone rich and they'd still hate him.

He could give everyone a Lamborghini and the left would bitch it was the wrong color.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Kinda. But the thing is that you cannot just "establish" the democracy if the society is not ready for that. We see it with UK or with Minnesota and how it devolves right now - you just cannot have a democracy in places where you have sectarian voting. People have to grow into the democracy. It worked with Japan because it was a homogenous society without various clans and sects unlike the Middle East. You need to reach a certain level of development to have a proper democracy.

I still think it's a bit historically short sighted to view modern democracy as some natural end-state of evolution for human societies, when they've existed in their current form for at most two centuries, and that's being generous with what you call a modern democracy.

Realistically, modern democracy in its current form is closer to a century old. And most of us have already lived through plenty of blunders that make us question if there isn't a better system. Meanwhile China is kicking our ass in many areas, some would say *because* it does not adhere to certain democratic principles.

 

[EviLore]

 

[-BLITZ-]

There is some poetry in the fact that the Islamic Republic was established 47 years ago and Trump being the 47th Also Agent 47.

Hmm, strange reminding me of Lincoln/Kennedy numbers and other things similarities.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Self inflicted wound.

Fell on a school eh?

hmm

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[Chittagong]

Has Trump's use of capital letters on random words ever been decoded?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

You'd have thought the UAE would have used a tiny fraction of their wealth to build robust anti drone defences....

 

[Forsete]

You'd have thought the UAE would have used a tiny fraction of their wealth to build robust anti drone defences....

Why spend money on something you *might need* instead of luxury European trinkets?

 

[AJUMP23]

Long time coming.

 

[kruis]

That hotel was probably not the target.