He. Lost. Five. Counties. Trump. Won.
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Montana US House Special Election Thread [GOP Hold]
- Thread starter Mr. RPG
- Start date
He. Lost. Five. Counties. Trump. Won.
Well an unknown quantity of voters wanted to change their mail-in ballots, so it's not like people don't realize he is a mistake. I don't see him not getting convicted, even if it is a misdemeanor. Pretty sure the attack ads will write themselves for the next campaign.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Like... where? When? AFAIK, this wasn't all that close before the incident, and early voting was easy and occurred weeks ago. When, why and how were they supposed to spend any significant amount in the last 24 hours?
I'm just imagining even a small-time mayor doing something like this in germany and trying to actually go on with an election after that. The fact that someone who thinks the world was actually, physically flooded and a man called Noah actually, physically herded all animals on a big ship and that science is nothing but liberal propaganda is able to get elected is hilarious already. But that he can then bodyslam a fucking reporter without IMMEDIATLY resigning from any and all apsirations for a government position (and without EVERYONE in his party decidedly asking and telling him to step down) AND THEN even win the election. It's so completely and utterly bonkers. The US political system is so fundamentally, completely, irredeemably fucked.
In every sane democracy out there this situation would be bonkers but in In good old US...it seems that everything, even the political events, are just a reality show for most of its population.
According to statistics, 65-70% of the German population is christian. Do they not believe that part of the bible then?
jellies_two
Member
Correct.
Sane Christians don't take everything in the Bible literally. That's one of the reasons that exist a separation of church and state in most democracies.
nintendoman58
Member
Ugh, I was worried that this is gonna be the mindset from now on for people here because of this.
That's not how this works. Learn the facts.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Winning was a long shot, but being within six points in such a red seat is a good indication of the possiblity for a good 2018.
That's not how it works, across the board, percentage wise, Quist had more share of votes than Clinton had.
Six point loss is something I can live with and be happy moving forward, considering the money spent on the R side.
That's not how it works, across the board, percentage wise, Quist had more share of votes than Clinton had.
Six point loss is something I can live with and be happy moving forward, considering the money spent on the R side.
DarthMasta
Member
They just don't take it literally, the idea that the Bible is to be taken literally isn't all that widespread in Europe.
RPGCrazied
Member
At least we know Montana thinks violence is cool, good to know. Hope this shit bag has to answer for striking a reporter at every turn in congress.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Lets be honest
If Clinton, on the eve of the election, body slammed a reporter and puncher them, would you still vote for her (not specifically asking "you", but in a more general sense)?
I know I would, because while that would be vile and horrid, I would overlook it because of policy reasons, which is the same reasoning everyone who votes for Gianforte uses.
In fact there are a lot of personal issues I would probably overlook with voting in a democrat, simply because I view policy issues as major importance when voting someone in, and their ability to achieve the goals they campaigned for. So while it's easy to look at people who vote R and laugh at them and be shocked they still vote, I wonder how many people if on the mirror side would act and vote the exact same way.
Now, I know it's Clinton vs. Trump and that's different than a house race, but the logic still kinda applies.
RPGCrazied
Member
No? I just wouldn't vote then. Sure as hell not voting for Trump in any circumstance.
You're basically providing cover for every Trump voter and continued supporter with this kind of argument. "Yeah he's a terrible person who doesn't understand anything, but think of the tax cuts!"
plagiarize
Banned
I can't vote.
Logically though, I would have expected such a thing to cost her the election. That behavior isn't suitable from someone heading for the house, but it sure as hell isn't suitable from someone who wants to be president.
You can't have someone like that with the nuclear codes. We justifiably worry about Trump's temperament, but he doesn't beat down the reporters we know he hates so much.
But here's the thing, Clinton would never have done anything like that. If she was that kind of person, I don't know that I'd have supported her in the first place.
You can't logically say 'well if Clinton did that type of thing you'd still have voted for her' because if she was that type of person, how many of us would have supported her in the first place? Gianforte was already clearly the type of person (ignoring his political beliefs) that I can't get behind. As is Trump.
Perhaps a better comparison would be if Obama had done this before his first election. That would have 100% flipped that election into a landslide for McCain no? And shouldn't it have?
Because we knew McCain had the appropriate temperament.
They believe in God, but they don't think that the bible is a literal transcript of actual history. I mean, sure there ARE those people, but it's an incredibly small part of christianity in germany (and I'd say Europe in general). The leading party CDU has "Christian" in their name, but if they came out and said "Yup, the Earth is a few thousand years old and all science is bullshit!" they would be laughed out of government. Obviously there are hardliners in CDU's more right-wing sister party CSU, but even they aren't as crazy as most of the republican party. That kind of christian extremism, where everything the Bible says overwrites actual science and how incredibly prevalent it is in society and politics is a very, very american thing as far as I'm aware.
airmangataosenai
Member
People holding up the results as a positive are ridiculous. He handily won even while facing fucking assault charges and after the supposedly apocalyptic CBO healthcare score. Both of these factors together and fresh in the news cycle barely moved the needle, we cant count on a wave to carry us in 2018.
The majority of votes happened before those events. Did you really think the smaller election day turnout was going to change that? People can't change their vote in that state either.
RPGCrazied
Member
Its a 25+ R district. He won by 6 points, and with spending millions in spending, where the D didn't even spend a million.
A backlash is coming, not if, when.
That swing from Trump+X to this R+Y result is enough to swing the house. Special Elections are a mess in terms of how predictive they are, but Trump will be a bigger weight if his approval drops more.
TheOfficeMut
Unconfirmed Member
If on the eve of the GE, Hillary body slammed someone, I would have still voted for her. If it was Bernie in the GE against Trump and he punched someone in the mouth, I'd have still voted for him. That's because the opposition in the GE was fundamentally and morally worse.
Throwing my arms up and pretending the opposition suddenly disappears because I don't want to vote isn't based in reality. I'm voting for the person who best represents liberal and progressive ideologies. If Hillary had assaulted someone, that wouldn't have changed the fact that her opponent was Trump, the god damn orange hurricane. Such an incident would have surely bothered me when going to the voting booth, but the policy differences between the two would have remained the same, and only one was as disastrous as we expected him to be.
For people such as myself, the current GOP platform is the devil incarnate. Even the worst democrats are better than the majority of republicans in office. It's that god damn bad. But apply this same logic to republicans, because they surely see democrats as the devil incarnate as well, and a body slam to a reporter isn't enough to dissuade them from voting R because the D on the ballot represents a literal hell to them.
Throwing my arms up and pretending the opposition suddenly disappears because I don't want to vote isn't based in reality. I'm voting for the person who best represents liberal and progressive ideologies. If Hillary had assaulted someone, that wouldn't have changed the fact that her opponent was Trump, the god damn orange hurricane. Such an incident would have surely bothered me when going to the voting booth, but the policy differences between the two would have remained the same, and only one was as disastrous as we expected him to be.
For people such as myself, the current GOP platform is the devil incarnate. Even the worst democrats are better than the majority of republicans in office. It's that god damn bad. But apply this same logic to republicans, because they surely see democrats as the devil incarnate as well, and a body slam to a reporter isn't enough to dissuade them from voting R because the D on the ballot represents a literal hell to them.
TetraGenesis
Member
Exactly. I'm sick of people saying this is defeatist. It's not defeatist -- we're just defeated. This is just the latest evidence that democracy and justice are dead in America. The GOP and Trump has destroyed my faith in humanity.
It was expected. Heavy R, and too much early voting. It doesn't really mean anything in the bigger picture. Democrats are making some big gains with these numbers which will translate very well in closer districts. I know it's hard but we'll just have to be patient until the next year. Just think, another whole year of Trump. It's going to be a disaster. People will be so tired of the party by then.
Host Samurai
Member
The people in the crowd made me want to punch the TV
Empyrean Heaven
Member
This is definitely showing a major issue with the press in general. If the press is attacked at an event and it gives a guy more support, then the will of Trump's America is that the press has too much freedom. And the only way to change that? Make amendments to change the first. And the only way that will be done? Get a supermajority in the house, senate, and the states, and then you are allowed to rewrite the Constitution to your whims.
nintendoman58
Member
WE LITERALLY JUST FLIPPED A SEAT IN NH.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
There is no evidence he had more support from assaulting someone
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Within 6 points in a race that should have been double-digits easily AND where Trump won easily (by 20%) AND this was with a significant amount of early votes (over two thirds total) that came in pre-bodyslam. GOP's fucked
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Didnt he get a huge donation boost because of this?
sturgboski
Member
How does this show that is a major issue with the press AND not for the press? How is it the press's fault that by reporting actual facts, half of this nation is full of simpering, drooling morons who take their views from their golden idol in office and the terrible propaganda networks that support him?
nintendoman58
Member
By 100k, yeah. Doesn't really amount to much in the long run though.
Any random asshole can toss money to someone online. Donations don't automatically equal more votes.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
He was already spending and making millions in an election where the Dem never even spent a million, let alone made one
By every statistic, this shouldn't have been close. Yet by the stat that matters (final tally), it was.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Republican voters have been indoctrinated by this shit for years. To think that everything would magically flip in a few months time is naively optimistic. With that being said, the gains absolutely CANNOT be ignored. Also keep in mind, everything in terms of economy and day to day life is still going well. Trump and the GOP are coasting on Obama's gains. It takes time.
Laevateinn
Member
A Democrat could sacrifice a child in a pizza shop and still wouldn't be as evil or bad for the world as a republican.
Yeah, I'm not willing to go here yet. The GOP is far from fucked.
However it's clear that the political landscape has shifted- What once would have doomed a political candidate apparently now only makes them more visible and potentially popular.
Roland_Gunner
Member
People are being mislead by that graph on third party spending. Quist raised more than $5M for the election
Montana Democrat's Donations Top $5 Million As Woes Mount For GOP Rival
TetraGenesis
Member
I'm not saying we can't flip seats.
I'm saying that this guy literally assaults a reporter and his base donates over $100k and he wins handily. (And we can blame it on early voting but let's not forget all the figures that early voting skews 2/3rds Democrats there.) This being just another straw after everything that Trump has gotten away with and thrived from. It's small and insignificant but, to me, it's evidence that we're never putting the genie back in the bottle. Violent partisan politics and weaponized ignorance will only increase with the internet (especially an internet curated by corporations desperate to serve their self-interests). We can act like the courts will continue to protect us like they have so far, but remember Ginsberg may be stepping down this term granting another lifetime appointment to a young conservative in the Supreme Court. And I'm not so sure, despite judicial interference, the Right won't get away with the aggressive gerrymandering and voter suppression necessary to steal 2018 from the Democrats, too. And if they have absolute power when the next census rolls around? Hoo-boy. That's fucked forever. Politicize the census and you can accomplish a lot of nefarious things in very little time, while simultaneously eroding people's faith in the practice.
Not to mention, you think "fake news" is bad now? Just wait until audio and video manipulation software matures just a little more. Suddenly you can make anyone say anything and release it on the internet. Sure, most of them will easily refutable, but that's assuming people read or care about checking sources and critically verifying the truth. The big thing it does, however, is further gaslight the nation into refusing to believe things even with concrete evidence. You think a tape of Trump saying the n-word or peeing on some underage prostitutes will mean anything to the Right at that point? Trump (or whoever, down the line) just says "fake news" and his supporters have valid reasoning for believing him.
So, yes, in this instance, I do think Gianforte's win is a telling sign of the world we're living in getting even scarier.
Not saying it's absolute. Anything could happen. This could bring about a progressive revolution as a retaliatory response unlike anything we've ever seen. I hope so.
However, Gianforte winning is not a sign of that. I'm not gonna sit here and pretend it's a good thing.
Fancyarcher
Member
75% of the vote had already been cast before the punching incident. I doubt it affeted Quist in a great way.
SolarPowered
Member
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Yep, Gianforte would have been Comey'd right out of a win had the CBO score and the bodyslam come out a week or two earlier.
GOP would vote in Saten if he had an R next to his name.
The party system has become a total joke and turned into rooting for your favorite sports teams. It makes sense considering how fans of teams still worship their favorite players who have committed murders, rape, etc.
I almost don't understand anymore why we should even have public debates anymore. GOP voters are going to agree, clap and root for any republican candidate regardless of platform and personality. All that matters at this point is getting the people who don't vote to actually give a damn and vote.
I would have already voted for her, so I couldn't undo my vote. But yes, if Clinton assaulted a reporter in the same way that Gianforte did (ie, choke, bodyslam, then punch multiple times while screaming at them), yes I wouldn't vote for her. I don't think someone like that should have the presidency. The only thing that would make me pause is how horrible Trump is, in pretty much every way. I don't think I would vote for Trump either, in that case.
If Obama did that, either in '08 or '12, I would vote for McCain or Romney. Because while they may or may not share my policy positions, they're at least qualified for the job.
It's a false dichotomy anyhow. Clinton wouldn't do that, because she doesn't act like a high school teenager. Shame so many (mostly GOP) politicians do.
Look at the post above yours.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
All the whining in this thread is pretty pathetic. I mean, this is goddamn Montana. The state where the top things most people care about is being left alone, hunting, and ranching. Maybe if he'd body slammed the dude a week ago it might have made a difference, but even then it was always a long shot.
That not a response. If you didn't vote and you were going to vote for Clinton, that's still a win for Trump
And?
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