Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Wow. You're really calling for more game developers to be fired for the sake of the $3 trillion corporation?
More Xbox Layoffs to come?
- Thread starter MSduderino
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drganon
Banned
I'd just buy back some of the ips.
yogaflame
Member
Especially Perfect dark and Banjo
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
They aren't even done with the latest round of layoffs. More layoffs are guaranteed.
Hypereides
Member
Yeah, caught that too. They're going out of their way to not mention GAF as the source lol. Also, the cycle continues:
GAF -> internet -> GAF
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yeah, MS lost a ton of $$$ due to RROD during 360 generation.
VolticArchangel
Member
S
SneakersSO
is pretty spot on when it comes to a track record.
This is some alarming stuff.
What doesn't make sense is why the buyout, if you're gonna layoff most of them and have all the IP sitting limbo without being in business?
Modern AGI is not mature enough to replace entire teams, with designers, artists and system programmers.
They're on their way to become the most hated company in the U.S., if not, the world.
This is some alarming stuff.
What doesn't make sense is why the buyout, if you're gonna layoff most of them and have all the IP sitting limbo without being in business?
Modern AGI is not mature enough to replace entire teams, with designers, artists and system programmers.
They're on their way to become the most hated company in the U.S., if not, the world.
Roman Empire
Member
Crazy to think how bad management can kill any business, even someone the size of Microsoft backing up the Xbox brand. How did Microsoft let the situation get this dire before making a decision of restructuring the whole thing?
I'm still baffled because the writing has been on the wall since the Don Mattrick debacle and the handling of IPs in the Xbox One era.
I'm still baffled because the writing has been on the wall since the Don Mattrick debacle and the handling of IPs in the Xbox One era.
FakeNeogaf>internet>neogaf
Tango Gameworks Inc luckily moved on to Krafton and they let Toys for bob become independent last year at least. The Initiative they probably couldn't sell because they had a nonexistent track record of releases and not a good one for their unreleased project. What could they sell? MS loves hoarding IP and will be dependent on their big ones like CoD for the foreseeable future.
twilo99
Member
Personally I don't care but if I was advising said corporation, yes, they need to let more people go from various departments, not just gaming.
Candy Crush makes as much money as any of these 3 - it'd be bizarre if that wasn't safe (I mean they got cuts already, but so did rest of Activision).
Lionel Richie
Member
Maybe they won't sell, but they should license out IPs not unlike Konami is doing. I think Konami is obviously too focused on remakes and I don't think that's a great route, but Microsoft could do something similar for their IPs to get some needed support. This is just a random suggestion to illustrate my point so don't think I gave it some DEEP thought about it, but maybe get Owlcat Games to do a CRPG take on Fallout. Get the Amid Evil guys to do Heretic. You know, shit like that. Microsoft doesn't have the Nintendo Touch, they clearly have no creative direction that lets them properly control the quality of their games. So let other people try it, work out a good deal that benefit both sides. It shouldn't be impossible.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Peter Moore left in 2007, things unravelled very quickly
5 years later we all saw the result
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I love how I get disciplined on this site for making actual, thoughtful remarks I sincerely believe in, explaining exactly why I'm saying what i'm saying, and backing it up with information.
…And then there's *this*. Makes no sense whatsoever.
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//DEVIL//
Member
Yes, of course. Let's hire people in the studios we just closed, along with their projects. Amazing thinking.
Unless you are talking in general, then wtf this has to do with the crises that just happened? Every company in the world will hire and fire people. wtf that comment was for ?
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's become this weird, frankly downright stupid refrain I'm seeing more and more of. "Well, they're still hiring - all this layoff talk is overblown!" As though they can't see two fucking feet in front of themselves. When layoffs happen, you're not just shedding random people, you are eroding team culture, losing huge amounts of institutional knowledge, killing morale, and oftentimes shuttering entire divisions or reshuffling how the organization as a whole operates. The fact that you are continuing to hire does not do a single fucking thing to offset those losses.
PurePlatinum
Member
Probably - Laura whoever was right in that if your game didn't show up at the showcase in June, you are probably in trouble.
I'm worried about Ninja Theory, Compulsion, and Undead Labs.
I'm worried about Ninja Theory, Compulsion, and Undead Labs.
Sooner
Member
It was the correct response for someone trying to downplaying what's going on with 9000 more people laid off and entire studios being closed down.I love how I get disciplined on this site for making actual, thoughtful remarks I sincerely believe in, explaining exactly why I'm saying what i'm saying, and backing it up with information.
…And then there's *this*. Makes no sense whatsoever.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Apparently
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
We'll see another big layoff round - similar to this one in scale - within the next 12 months.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
At this point, I honestly think Phil cannot wait to retire. But feels like he just can't leave things like this. Definitely will want to stay til things solidify and see how the third party hardware partnerships go the next couple years.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I doubt things will solidify ever. This seems like a downward spiral to me, to be honest.
And if the last 5-10 years have anything to go by, we should have very little hope that things will suddenly turn around for the good. The Xbox Series launched looked like a really bright spot where they had a lot of momentum, but they missed that golden chance.
As far as Phil goes, I say he has the perfect job!
- He has zero accountability.
- He can fail at every turn and can still keep his job.
- Not just that, he is failing upward. Promoted from Head of Studios to Head of Xbox to CEO of Microsoft Gaming, while the Xbox brand kept going down.
- I doubt he has to work very hard either.
- And on top of that, he is literally earning millions and millions of dollars every year.
I think that's the reason he isn't retiring anytime soon.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I think he'd prefer to use Reggie as the ideal model for how to retire in good stead. And look at Trenton, Reggie, Ryan, they all retired having left when things were going very well. Trenton left after the PS4 launched and their console business was salvaged, Reggie left after the Switch launched and clearly Ninrendo was poised to keep growing the Switch and the business was very, very successful. Ryan left once the PS5 was off and running, making more than PS4 ever did, and swinging for the fences launching PSVR 2, live service pivot, and PS5 Pro in deep development.
Phil will surely want that for himself.
Horseganador
Member
Next year? There'll be another batch in a few months. They're going to dismantle Xbox little by little.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
When will Double Fine look to self-finance and do the Bungie thing of trying to rip itself off from its corporate owner? Oh, to be a fly on the wall at all these small studios that were riding high in 2019 with that sweet, sweet Xbox safety net money.
ProtoByte
Weeb Underling
It's been a downward spiral since the early stages of the gen. Arguably before then. As soon as they bet everything on Gamepass, they were cooked. As soon as the XBO failed, actually, they were cooked. Gamepass just extended and broadened the scale of the decline.
Now, they're in a position where they can't promise as much. Starfield and COD, games that would've been multiplats anyway, are actually underperforming in both sales and impact on Gamepass subs or even engagement. Most of their more genuine first party teams have recently and have also come up short if not completely tanking ala Ninja Theory, Compulsion and Obsidian.
When games like E-Day and Fable come out after 6-9 years of development time, they will genuinely have nothing to offer besides the annual COD, which has already taken a pipeline hit.
Psychonauts 2 flopped and their next game looks like a total dud.
Sintoid
Member
More layoff to come? Xbox devs face right now:
This is where will be the next layoffs, almost sure
Radical_3d
Member
PlayStaytion
Member
At it's peak, a PC division for the most part. They have to keep it clean which is PC vs Console. Can't second guess their capability to improve the experience on PC cause they could make it happen even better than the current Xbox+ PC experience combined.
Bumblebeetuna
Banned
Greenberg is still there.
Skifi28
Member
He's massive and growing.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I'm sure he will want to have a good legacy, but this seems like a really far-fetched dream right now. Honestly, I don't see any possible future where Xbox is considered a stable, profitable division - one that is significantly improved than the current state.
And even if Phil somewhat improves the situation, I think he will always be remembered for these layoffs and how he couldn't improve Xbox's position from #3 in his decades-long career. That, and ABK, I think.
Baemono
Member
Who's the sneaky now
Joel Was Right
Member
Tech jobs will continue to be cut, not just Xbox. Eventually, you will see this impact Playstation, too.
Nydius
Member
SkillUp wiping his brow, metaphorically, in his video about Compulsion, Ninja Theory, and Double Fine being "spared" but I really don't share his optimism.
South of Midnight got the usual decent critic scores but didn't move the needle commercially. I imagine most people who played it only did so because it was on Game Pass. Five years for South of Midnight's middling response doesn't bode well for them. As far as I know, Compulsion doesn't have anything else in the development pipeline.
Ninja Theory's next project has supposedly been green lit but as this last week has shown us that means Jack Shit to the Microsoft team when they make their decisions. I suspect they'll be downsized as soon as Hellblade 2's PS5 port is out and they'll turn into a support studio for other Microsoft studios, specifically in motion capture.
Double Fine… as soon as Keeper comes out (and probably flops, based on internet reactions to the gameplay), I think they'll be told to either make something "safe" (e.g. Psychonauts 3) or face being shut down.
South of Midnight got the usual decent critic scores but didn't move the needle commercially. I imagine most people who played it only did so because it was on Game Pass. Five years for South of Midnight's middling response doesn't bode well for them. As far as I know, Compulsion doesn't have anything else in the development pipeline.
Ninja Theory's next project has supposedly been green lit but as this last week has shown us that means Jack Shit to the Microsoft team when they make their decisions. I suspect they'll be downsized as soon as Hellblade 2's PS5 port is out and they'll turn into a support studio for other Microsoft studios, specifically in motion capture.
Double Fine… as soon as Keeper comes out (and probably flops, based on internet reactions to the gameplay), I think they'll be told to either make something "safe" (e.g. Psychonauts 3) or face being shut down.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Important to note though, that Double Fine has never been a money-maker. They've always struggled to stay afloat. Xbox was this dream-like lifeline that allowed them to have the safety net of Xbox while continuing to make whatever the hell they wanted to make. That was my whole point.
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twilo99
Member
They are taking too long ... all this should've been done 2-3 years ago
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Lmao in what context would Psychonauts be considered "safe"? The first two didn't sell. It survives purely on critical acclaim and a very small group of people who played and enjoyed it on Xbox in 2005. Xbox bought them knowing full well it was not a decision based on a strong balance sheet and lucrative products.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I honestly don't even see the point of buying Bethesda at this point. The whole argument at the time was it would greatly improve their first-party muscle and they "got" the golden goose known as BGS, where they could make Starfield and all future titles Xbox and PC exclusive.
That entire thing is completely flipped on its head now, I have no idea what the strategy is anymore.
Clearly there isn't one. Other than a lot of panic buttons being hit with no clear direction of what the long-term plan is for the Xbox Business.
That entire thing is completely flipped on its head now, I have no idea what the strategy is anymore.
Clearly there isn't one. Other than a lot of panic buttons being hit with no clear direction of what the long-term plan is for the Xbox Business.
Baemono
Member
Stop doing Xbox damange control, it's an Xbox related topic
Joel Was Right
Member
The job cuts seen in the last week needs to be understood in the greater context of what is causing it: a combination of downsizing following post-COVID hiring sprees, and a push to invest into automation and AI. Tens of thousands of jobs have been lost across the tech industry. I realise that people are framing it as a reflection of Xbox's failing business, but the job cuts have also hit Activision and the makers of the wildly successful Candy Crush: King will lose 10% of its entire workforce.
We've had bigger job losses specifically as a result of the video game industry....
In the same period as above, 35,000 jobs have been lost in the video game industry, directly impacting prices and pushing the tilt towards live-service models. PlayStation cut 900 jobs in Feb 2024, with further layoffs affecting leaving the total to around 1,500 in total. Again, context here is important; those job cuts were due to the "state of the industry". It's sort of expected, like how many Microsoft cut 1,900 jobs at Actvision/Blizzard after the acquisition. In fact, Xbox closed more studios in 2024 than this week; Tango Studios, Arkane Studios etc. They followed it up with a further 650 cuts affecting Support staff.
This round of layoffs are not directly caused by gaming industry factors, but their seems to be a greater reaction. But why?
I suspect its due to dormant frustration and apathy from Xbox fans over the last 12 months, following the third party tilt, and uncertainty over Xbox's hardware next-gen, coming out: any negative news now, regardless of the true cause, is being filtered through that lens of concern and anxiety, making it feel like proof of wider problems.
We've had bigger job losses specifically as a result of the video game industry....
In the same period as above, 35,000 jobs have been lost in the video game industry, directly impacting prices and pushing the tilt towards live-service models. PlayStation cut 900 jobs in Feb 2024, with further layoffs affecting leaving the total to around 1,500 in total. Again, context here is important; those job cuts were due to the "state of the industry". It's sort of expected, like how many Microsoft cut 1,900 jobs at Actvision/Blizzard after the acquisition. In fact, Xbox closed more studios in 2024 than this week; Tango Studios, Arkane Studios etc. They followed it up with a further 650 cuts affecting Support staff.
This round of layoffs are not directly caused by gaming industry factors, but their seems to be a greater reaction. But why?
I suspect its due to dormant frustration and apathy from Xbox fans over the last 12 months, following the third party tilt, and uncertainty over Xbox's hardware next-gen, coming out: any negative news now, regardless of the true cause, is being filtered through that lens of concern and anxiety, making it feel like proof of wider problems.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
some are definitively related to gaming factors, specifically Xbox leadership related.
Baemono
Member
Don't bother, he's going full damage control
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Once the ABK deal closed, as been reported, they are now deeply under the Microsoft microscope and every move they make is carefully watched and picked apart. Never a good position to be in creatively.