-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Mormon/Ex-Mormon Thread of 3 hour blocks and salvation flowcharts
- Thread starter ronito
- Start date
With the rules it's even easier.
Well, for myself I feel there is a substantial difference between rules like "Girls cannot use boys bathrooms" and say, "women cannot enter the apartments of Elders." The latter makes perfect sense because missionaries are just better off with as few chances to get in trouble as humanly possible. The former is a massive inconvenience for everyone involved.
Laurentius
Member
Haha, true. The missionaries on my mission were the horniest guys I've ever met...
The issue is that you begin to interpret everything dealing with the opposite sex as steps towards impropriety.
I remember having a youth (when I was a youth) fireside about tickling leading to sex. We then proceeded to tickle as many of the young women as possible at any given opportunity. It didn't work. We were disappointed.
Getting down is grown up stuff. Tickling doesn't lead to sex, wanting to have sex leads to tickling that leads to sex. Sharing a bus seat on an overnight trip and covering with a blanket doesn't lead to handjobs. Planning the damned seat and making sure you had a blanket allows handjobs. Kids like to pretend they don't know the outcome they would like to happen.
It doesn't help that many young ladies think they can flirt with no repercussions, and if you go on a foreign mission some women think you're pure as the driven snow and fall for what they think you are. I had one quite attractive young lady (very buxom light eyed light haired latin girl) work her ass off trying to separate my companion and I. She feigned being "out of it" and wanted a blessing. After the blessing she pretended to faint right on me. She then asked if I could give her a ride home. I got a member to drive her. She then started leaving wrapped gifts and notes on my doorstep. The sister missionaries talked with her and apparently all she talked about was me. She talked enough that one of the sister missionaries then began to have a thing for me.
I don't think I've ever been more attractive to the opposite sex than when I was on my mission.
My mission President's wife flat-out told us our most attractive feature was the name tag. Like, without, I'm nobody, with it, errybody wants a piece.
But I only brought it up to illustrate that there are times where the strictness seems reasonable or understandable, such as on the mission, where other times it makes no sense at all.
Laurentius
Member
Yeah, I knew quite a few missionaries that had the same problem. I never had that problem though, for whatever reason. Probably because I was just a really uptight missionary. Heh.
SillyEskimo
Member
My wife and I caught a nice program about Mormans last night.
http://press.discovery.com/us/da/programs/hidden-america/
It was entertaining and shed some light on many aspects of the church that perhaps even long time members are unaware (mainly the financial aspect). It also had a segment on the FLDS as well. It was all review for me but my wife was mezmorized and had a million questions.
A side note on not just this program, but any program dealing with religion. If you take a devout member and have them speak candidly then air that conversation, that member sounds like a lunatic.
Anyway, you guys should check it out sometime.
http://press.discovery.com/us/da/programs/hidden-america/
It was entertaining and shed some light on many aspects of the church that perhaps even long time members are unaware (mainly the financial aspect). It also had a segment on the FLDS as well. It was all review for me but my wife was mezmorized and had a million questions.
A side note on not just this program, but any program dealing with religion. If you take a devout member and have them speak candidly then air that conversation, that member sounds like a lunatic.
Anyway, you guys should check it out sometime.
I didn't even know it existed I'll have to check it.
I was watching the Conclave start this morning and thought of the church and about how just like technically any baptized catholic man can be elected pope it hasn't happened in ages. I believe that's the same with the church isn't it? I mean you don't have to be a member of the 12 to become prophet do you? When was the last time that even happened? Has it ever happened?
I also wonder about the resigning thing. I mean David B. Haight was given emeritus status as have some other GAs I wonder if the prophet could resign if he wanted to. I mean I remember growing up in the Ezra T. Benson days and the first presidency essentially ran the show but I remember missing hearing from the prophet every conference because he was just so ill. We're not in the same boat as the catholics we have a first presidency and a quorum of the the 12. But still it'd be interesting to see.
Thaedolus
Member
Is it just my imagination or do I remember them always focusing on his empty chair at least once a conference broadcast?
I don't think you can resign from the Presidency, nor am I sure it can be revoked. There isn't exactly precedent, you know? I mean, it's kind of a Moses or Jonah thing where even if you say you don't want to you're stuck.
You can be removed from the 12, though. I dunno about resigning, but you can definitely be removed from it.
That's true, but culturally it's almost impossible to ask for a release. Sure you can but people have such a hard time doing it.
Like I said, having lived through the Ezra Taft Benson years where so much of his presidency he was unable to address the people. I can totally see why a prophet would resign. But yeah, I don't see it happening ever.
Not just any baptized member, High Priest or not, can become the president. It falls exclusively to the most senior member of the Quorum of the Twelve. I've been told that the reason for that is it removes the politics from the appointment. God decides who becomes president by length of life, as it were.
Basically, the Apostle who has been serving the longest in the quorum, at the time of death of the president will be called and sustained president by that same quorum, but it won't be considered official until after the next General Conference solemn assembly, where he would be sustained by the general membership of the Church after which he will be set apart and given the keys by laying on of hands by the Twelve.
Basically, the Apostle who has been serving the longest in the quorum, at the time of death of the president will be called and sustained president by that same quorum, but it won't be considered official until after the next General Conference solemn assembly, where he would be sustained by the general membership of the Church after which he will be set apart and given the keys by laying on of hands by the Twelve.
See, I had heard those were the "unofficial" rules. Like that's just how it happens now, like it'll be one of the cardinals that become Pope but technically it doesn't have to be. I'm really interested now. Can anyone be Prophet now or is it just seniority now?
I dunno. I've heard it said that this issue was settled when Brigham and not Joseph's son, became President, but I can't say as I've ever heard. Standard Op. is that the Senior Apostle becomes so, though. People tend to point to Peter's becoming head of the Church after Christ's ascension as evidence. You can't do the same in the Book of Mormon, though, because 4th Nephi isn't exactly a detailed account.
Thaedolus
Member
Not to drag too much from reddit over here, but this did make me chuckle:
It also made me think about the many myths I heard while in the MTC/mission field. Everyone seemed to know somebody who had to cast a devil out (except me). One missionary claimed his dad's companion once challenged Satan to some sort of spiritual duel and died from it. He was really upset that I didn't believe it.
Any other fun myths you guys encountered?
It also made me think about the many myths I heard while in the MTC/mission field. Everyone seemed to know somebody who had to cast a devil out (except me). One missionary claimed his dad's companion once challenged Satan to some sort of spiritual duel and died from it. He was really upset that I didn't believe it.
Any other fun myths you guys encountered?
I remember sometime back in the 90s BYU Magazine ran a pretty in depth article about Mormon Mythology. Nearly every myth was pretty easily debunked. Somehow these stories continue to pervade. If these stories were true, the Three Nephites have helped every missionary who ever served in every mission since the restoration.
That said, I don't discount every story I hear offhand, but I think a health level of incredulity is more helpful than not.
That said, I don't discount every story I hear offhand, but I think a health level of incredulity is more helpful than not.
So many, let see:
- Steve Martin is a mormon
- My mom was fairly certain one of the three nephites fixed her car when she pulled over on the side of the road
- The Mick Jagger on a plane story. I know the GA claims it's true but I find it hard to believe, Jagger says it didn't happen and even if it did happen pretty sure Jagger was just trolling the guy.
- Countless variations about the Jesus painting and someone being like "That was the guy who held me after my parents died." Even met a few that were like "And that girl was me!"
- I had a friend once that claimed he was going to the temple and as they were about to enter the endowment room the facilitator said "Two of you are committing adultery. Leave now." And when no one left he said, "If you don't leave now I'll name names." No one left. They proceeded as if nothing happened. I put this up there in myth level because I had heard a variation of the story where two people leave before.
- There was a story about how this father and son did an exorcism and the thing they remember the most was the awful smell of the demon. And then when they got home someone had hard rock on and the same smell was coming from the radio. Because, apparently music smells.
- My Dad was a counsellor in a bishopric and he did help in an exorcism (mind you this was in Venezuela so as I mentioned before voodoo/dark magic and the church sorta intermingle in strange ways). It is something he's never even mentioned or will talk about. The only way I know about it is my mom mentioned it to me once. I am interested to know what happened but he wont say.
- Lots of well this guy left the church and got cancer
- In the mid90s there was that mormon lady who had a near death experience and then was shown all the universe and all that. She made the rounds in Firesides in Utah at that time. I never believed it even then because that'd mean that she was shown more than Moses and most prophets ever were.
- Oh my favorite was my seminary teacher was talking about respecting your priesthood and told this story about how three elders got drunk and decided to dedicate a fencepost to god and they were all struck dead. I asked "But if all three died, how do we know about this story?" I was kicked out of class for the rest of the day.
Laurentius
Member
Not to drag too much from reddit over here, but this did make me chuckle:
It also made me think about the many myths I heard while in the MTC/mission field. Everyone seemed to know somebody who had to cast a devil out (except me). One missionary claimed his dad's companion once challenged Satan to some sort of spiritual duel and died from it. He was really upset that I didn't believe it.
Any other fun myths you guys encountered?
Haha, I heard the same sister missionary legend so many times on my mission.
We had all sorts of legends that went around about some group of missionaries a few years prior that had some sort of "secret society" (and called themselves Gadiantons to boot, I believe). Stories ranged from them being required to seduce sister missionaries to be admitted, to having to fly home, take a picture in front of their parent's house, and fly back without their companion knowing they were gone. There were also stories of missionaries using baptismal fonts to throw hot-tub parties. I don't think I remember hearing any stories that were exceptionally heinous about them, but the way they were talked about you would think those were the worst possible things ever.
Another story is that they identified each other by sewing a BB inside the skin between their thumb and forefinger. So when a GA inevitably came out to clean up the mission, he stood all the missionaries up in a line and shook their hands. Those that he felt a BB were immediately sent home.
And then I got home from my mission and learned that pretty much every mission in the world has nearly identical mission legends. Haha. Makes me wonder if any of that was actually true.
We performed two "excorcisms" on my mission. It all seems silly looking back on it now, but I can share the stories if anyone is interested.
I know I've read this exact story before, but the variation where the two people actually leave. I seem to remember it claimed to be from early church history, and it was a GA that said it at the Logan temple...
I'm interested. I always find that stuff interesting.
Your story reminded me of the story where there was this mission where the APs convinced everyone they were so holy that they had to have all the mission meetings in their garments and they did that just so they could get a good look at the sister missionaries.
Also back to the reddit thing (I'm all over the place) I'm sorta done there. I used to frequent the exmormon sub but that's just turned into a mini /r/atheist which I want nothing to do with. Then the latterdaysaints sub is too "molly" for me. /r/mormon is ok but it's mainly dead. I need a place to get lds news from both sides and I can't really find one. The bloggernacle is a mixed bag of bad to worse and anything exmo is too damned angry.
Your story reminded me of the story where there was this mission where the APs convinced everyone they were so holy that they had to have all the mission meetings in their garments and they did that just so they could get a good look at the sister missionaries.
Also back to the reddit thing (I'm all over the place) I'm sorta done there. I used to frequent the exmormon sub but that's just turned into a mini /r/atheist which I want nothing to do with. Then the latterdaysaints sub is too "molly" for me. /r/mormon is ok but it's mainly dead. I need a place to get lds news from both sides and I can't really find one. The bloggernacle is a mixed bag of bad to worse and anything exmo is too damned angry.
Bornstellar
Member
One of these days I really ought to scan this hand-written book I have detailing the account of a convert from Lanzarote in the Canary Islands. More or less, it includes supposed prophecies from a member of a nomadic tribe descended from a family which escaped Jerusalem when the Romans came down hard on it about the restoration of the Church. This person was also (apparently) able to read the facsimiles in the Pearl of Great Price and provides a detailed interpretation of them. Taken with a huge grain of salt, but it is absolutely fascinating stuff.
Also, it's all in Spanish.
What the hell.
Also, it's all in Spanish.
What the hell.
I dealt with a possessed guy on my mission. I'll scan my journal entries. It was wild stuff, and I came home from my mission with a broken thumb because he attacked me when we tried to give him a blessing. Absolutely the most terrifying moments of my life.
There's an audio recording of one of the instances, but it was a companion of mine who made it. I've asked him multiple times to send me a copy, and he keeps shrugging it off. He's either lazy or he's still bugged out over it. We listed to it once after the whole incident and it's extremely hard to listen to. It just twists your stomach in knots.
Edit: ronito, I haven't browsed this, but maybe it's something that you might want to check out: http://zionlist.com. It's probably pretty whitewashed, but I don't know. Doesn't look super active either.
Thaedolus
Member
I think there's a place for /r/exmormon. But it's probably more for people who are solidly exmo.
You sure he wasn't just on drugs or mentally ill?
Fun stories from my MTC teacher: Apparently some missionaries there once recreated the temple veil and performed a lot of the rites together in the bathroom. Not sure WTF they were doing. Another group caused about 50k in water damage when they turned the stairs into a water slide. I wonder what kinds of clusterfuckery will happen now that the missionary age has dropped another year.
Positive of it. He could tell us things about our day or past that he would not have possibly known. Could be little things like how a contact treated us earlier in the day or what I used to do before the mission. He got really specific on things. It's a long story, but I'll share it here when I have time.
This looks promising thanks!
Laurentius
Member
First story: it was our P-Day and we were just doing our laundry. Got a call from a frantic sounding lady telling us we needed to come over as soon as possible. She was a member from another state, but she was in town watching her great aunt's house, who had either just passed away, or had been put in a nursing home (can't remember exactly). Apparently this house had been known for years to be "haunted". One of her great aunt's sons had hung himself in the closet upstairs 20 or so years earlier.
Since they had arrived, they had been feeling scared and had started to hear things. The night before they had moved some stuff up in the son's room (which the lady had apparently left the same it was when he died). In the middle of the night they heard stuff moving up there, and when they went up everything was in the exact same position it was before they moved it.
They ended up calling the bishop of the area who gave her the missionary's phone number. We ended up calling the mission president who told us specifically that "we don't do excorcisms". He told us to call the ward mission leader and go over together and dedicate the house, but not to do any "raising the right arm to the square and casting out devils".
So my companion and I, and the ward mission leader and a ward missionary went over later that day. We all piled upstairs into the room where the spirit supposedly hung out. We never heard or saw anything, but I remember feeling pretty scared at first. (Honestly, that doesn't mean much. Of course we would feel scared after the stories we heard, and the fact we actually believed it.) My companion said a pretty powerful and moving prayer (and he included words about casting out the spirit, even though the mission pres said not to). Afterwards we all felt warm and happy, and when we saw the members later that week they said there hadn't been an occurence since, and that they felt safe at the house now.
Now I don't think anything actually happened and I don't believe there was an evil spirit hanging around, and it was likely confirmation bias at work. Still, it was an interesting experience.
The second story is actually even less interesting. Basically, a lady that had watched too much ghost hunter shows was convinced a spirit had come home with her autistic son, and was perhaps possessing him. We just said a prayer and gave the kid a blessing and were on our way.
So I guess both of those stories are really stretching it to call "excorcisms".
Anyway, some pretty interesting Mormon legends/myths coming from everyone. I have some more I thought of that I'll have to share when I get off work.
Laurentius
Member
They claimed it was more then creaking, and that they actually heard a desk up in that room scrape across the floor and slam into a wall.
But yeah, it's easy to exaggerate things you hear and see when you're scared and think that there's some sort of spirit hanging around.
Doubledoubt
Banned
I was raised Mormon, stopped going when I was around 14-16. My thoughts:
Some of the coolest fucking people I've ever met are Mormon, Ex-Mormon. The young Fathers in particular were excellent role-models to me growing up as a youth. They had a very rational view on drinking/sex/drugs etc. They were open-minded, yet very loyal and loving to their families. Great people.
It also had its fair share of completely cheesy, quasi-brainwashed nuts that dedicated their whole life to the Church.
I left the Church for the same reason I would of left any Church I would happen to grow up in. It didn't add up. There was too much judgement/elitism among certain families and I didn't feel it necessary to devote my whole life to something without first being able to explore other options.
I still have a Father, brother, 2 sisters, 2 brother-in-laws, a niece, and a nephew who are Mormon. They are awesome. They are not brainwashed loons. They are open-minded peoples with a great sense of humor and a rational view on life and politics.
I can understand the bashing of Religion, but what I find hilarious is when other sects of Christianity or other religions bash Mormonism as if they themselves aren't in a just-as-loony, if not more (I find the practices of Catholicism downright creepy) religion.
The truth is out there, this I am sure of. I don't look down on Mormons any more so then I do people that associate themselves with other sects/groups of society such as Democrats, Republicans, Religions etc. It's limiting to the soul and its just what people do to make them feel like they belong or matter. Its fine. I find my own path and that is incredibly valuable to me that I live in a world and time where I am able to do that.
Some of the coolest fucking people I've ever met are Mormon, Ex-Mormon. The young Fathers in particular were excellent role-models to me growing up as a youth. They had a very rational view on drinking/sex/drugs etc. They were open-minded, yet very loyal and loving to their families. Great people.
It also had its fair share of completely cheesy, quasi-brainwashed nuts that dedicated their whole life to the Church.
I left the Church for the same reason I would of left any Church I would happen to grow up in. It didn't add up. There was too much judgement/elitism among certain families and I didn't feel it necessary to devote my whole life to something without first being able to explore other options.
I still have a Father, brother, 2 sisters, 2 brother-in-laws, a niece, and a nephew who are Mormon. They are awesome. They are not brainwashed loons. They are open-minded peoples with a great sense of humor and a rational view on life and politics.
I can understand the bashing of Religion, but what I find hilarious is when other sects of Christianity or other religions bash Mormonism as if they themselves aren't in a just-as-loony, if not more (I find the practices of Catholicism downright creepy) religion.
The truth is out there, this I am sure of. I don't look down on Mormons any more so then I do people that associate themselves with other sects/groups of society such as Democrats, Republicans, Religions etc. It's limiting to the soul and its just what people do to make them feel like they belong or matter. Its fine. I find my own path and that is incredibly valuable to me that I live in a world and time where I am able to do that.
Oh oh, Mission Myths and Devils time?
. . . I don't really have that much, actually.
Well no, that's a lie, I have two good stories.
STORY THE FIRST: THE DEVIL'S TINY LITTLE WOODED AREA
So, okay, for this to make sense, you need to know a few things. Goias is a very evangelical state in a very Catholic country. So like, the Great Apostasy is a lot more believable if you've been places like Anapolis, where every day life doesn't sound so different from the accounts of Joseph Smith's own youth. But more to the point: EVERYONE cares about religion in some way or another in Goias. From the drunk who stopped us to say I was Jesus and my companion Paul to the crackhead asking us why Jesus always has such nice hair in paintings. And of course, there are other religions cared about, but none so much as Christianity.
However, in Goias there is a sizeable practice of Candomble, which, as best as I was able to learn, was something like the Witch Doctor stuff from Live and Let Die fused with Catholicism. So if anybody thinks Catholicism is creepy, they should check out Candomble, because that's like the Halloween version of Catholicism or something. Anyway, this is important to the story because Candomble has a splinter sect of sorts referred to as Mucumba, which, as far as the Evangelical and Catholic populations will tell you, is basically the Sith Lord side of things. Evil stuff, like ritual animal sacrifices and the lot. If you want a casting out devil story from this region of Brazil, chances are it'll involve Mucumba. There's also Animism, which is more like the Jedi side of things. They're almost more Catholic than Candomble, really, with their most notable features being a belief in reincarnation and also they're like, the nicest, most kind hearted people in the area. Even nicer than the Christian Congregation, which was an incredibly nice (in my experience) denomination.
Now, the reason this is all brought up is that Mucumba (or Macumbeiros, the practicioners of Macumba) happened a lot in Jardim Curitiba, an area where I served. Like, you frequently found half-sacrificed chickens in the area and stuff, where they were doing this until the cops busted up the party (Mucumba isn't outlawed, but burning live chickens is, I think.) Anyway, Jd. Curitiba is a BAD place. The ward is great, the members lovely, and frankly I loved it, but seriously people died and got shot and robbed there ALL THE TIME. Like seriously one night the members cried and stayed up all night praying because we left their house and went down a street where this guy got shot the same exact night (so we leave, they hear about people getting shot, and stay up all night hoping it isn't us.) and like, I was teaching this couple right, like, more like ex-couple. And I was only teaching the woman because she was a friend of a convert, and the man I sorta knew.
SO HE STABS HER TO DEATH. 12 TIMES. Yeah, did I mention they lived like, a block away and the cops never caught him?
JARDIM CURITIBA IS A SCARY PLACE.
Now, with this set up, there was a "mato" or wooded area in the middle of our area, on the way to the church, and I'd been told a load of strange stories about it. Everyone has one. Like, human sacrifices, drug usage, etc. My companion said he and an AP were walking by and stopped at this tiny little swing set that for some reason is in the middle of nowhere. And the swing is goin' back and forth and back and forth and the AP creeps him out telling him that in the day the living children played on the swing, and at night the dead. Lots of stories of this effect, with men in cloaks emerging from the wood to chase the Elders and goats with flaming eyes. Seriously, if you serve in Jd. Curitiba, you know a story like this.
Anyway, I never believed it and chalked it up to Missionary Superstition. Until one night I was walking by there with my trainee, who'd never heard anything about the place. He grabs my arm and says "Elder, we have to get away from the wood." "Why?" "There's something in there. We have to get away." "It's probably just a cat. People leave them here when they don't want 'em." "NO. We have to get away."
I tell you, I don't have ANY idea what was going through his head, but he was scared, and the look in his eyes scared me, and we bolted. I dunno what was in those woods, but it was freakin' weird. I've heard all sorts of explanations for this whole thing, but the more I look back on that night, the more I can't help but feel there WAS something in those woods and we did need to get away from them. I certainly felt like that looking into his eyes.
Jd. Curitiba was like that. I mean, I've got a lot of other stories of spooky things happening, and some of them make for great campfire ghost stories, but most of 'em I can explain. That though, I've never figured out.
Oh, and I promised a myth, huh?
So this one shames me a bit, because it was a belief people had on my mission, that there was such a thing as "Pure Blooded" Mormons. You see, we had a guy who was directly descended from John Taylor, and it so happened that this guy really was an amazing guy and an amazing missionary. Unfortunately, it reinforced in the heads of some Brazilian missionaries that there were levels of purity of Mormon heritage. Like, if you were descended from Prophets, Apostles, or Pioneers you were up top. If your family descended from the first converts in a country, you were near top. If you were a neophyte, well, that just wasn't right.
And somehow they took this to also mean that Brazilians and Utahns in specific shouldn't intermarry, and that Utahns would never accept Brazilians. There's a whole story accompanying how this crazy belief came about on my mission, involving one particularly unlucky and hapless missionary, but for his sake I'll just say all of it was bogus and I spent like, a full month trying to convince my companion and others (it was a weird disease mostly belonging to the Secretaries) that it was flat out wrong.
So that's what I've got.
EDIT: SenseiJinx, where did you serve? Because I totally have heard the one with the desk and chair moving.
. . . I don't really have that much, actually.
Well no, that's a lie, I have two good stories.
STORY THE FIRST: THE DEVIL'S TINY LITTLE WOODED AREA
So, okay, for this to make sense, you need to know a few things. Goias is a very evangelical state in a very Catholic country. So like, the Great Apostasy is a lot more believable if you've been places like Anapolis, where every day life doesn't sound so different from the accounts of Joseph Smith's own youth. But more to the point: EVERYONE cares about religion in some way or another in Goias. From the drunk who stopped us to say I was Jesus and my companion Paul to the crackhead asking us why Jesus always has such nice hair in paintings. And of course, there are other religions cared about, but none so much as Christianity.
However, in Goias there is a sizeable practice of Candomble, which, as best as I was able to learn, was something like the Witch Doctor stuff from Live and Let Die fused with Catholicism. So if anybody thinks Catholicism is creepy, they should check out Candomble, because that's like the Halloween version of Catholicism or something. Anyway, this is important to the story because Candomble has a splinter sect of sorts referred to as Mucumba, which, as far as the Evangelical and Catholic populations will tell you, is basically the Sith Lord side of things. Evil stuff, like ritual animal sacrifices and the lot. If you want a casting out devil story from this region of Brazil, chances are it'll involve Mucumba. There's also Animism, which is more like the Jedi side of things. They're almost more Catholic than Candomble, really, with their most notable features being a belief in reincarnation and also they're like, the nicest, most kind hearted people in the area. Even nicer than the Christian Congregation, which was an incredibly nice (in my experience) denomination.
Now, the reason this is all brought up is that Mucumba (or Macumbeiros, the practicioners of Macumba) happened a lot in Jardim Curitiba, an area where I served. Like, you frequently found half-sacrificed chickens in the area and stuff, where they were doing this until the cops busted up the party (Mucumba isn't outlawed, but burning live chickens is, I think.) Anyway, Jd. Curitiba is a BAD place. The ward is great, the members lovely, and frankly I loved it, but seriously people died and got shot and robbed there ALL THE TIME. Like seriously one night the members cried and stayed up all night praying because we left their house and went down a street where this guy got shot the same exact night (so we leave, they hear about people getting shot, and stay up all night hoping it isn't us.) and like, I was teaching this couple right, like, more like ex-couple. And I was only teaching the woman because she was a friend of a convert, and the man I sorta knew.
SO HE STABS HER TO DEATH. 12 TIMES. Yeah, did I mention they lived like, a block away and the cops never caught him?
JARDIM CURITIBA IS A SCARY PLACE.
Now, with this set up, there was a "mato" or wooded area in the middle of our area, on the way to the church, and I'd been told a load of strange stories about it. Everyone has one. Like, human sacrifices, drug usage, etc. My companion said he and an AP were walking by and stopped at this tiny little swing set that for some reason is in the middle of nowhere. And the swing is goin' back and forth and back and forth and the AP creeps him out telling him that in the day the living children played on the swing, and at night the dead. Lots of stories of this effect, with men in cloaks emerging from the wood to chase the Elders and goats with flaming eyes. Seriously, if you serve in Jd. Curitiba, you know a story like this.
Anyway, I never believed it and chalked it up to Missionary Superstition. Until one night I was walking by there with my trainee, who'd never heard anything about the place. He grabs my arm and says "Elder, we have to get away from the wood." "Why?" "There's something in there. We have to get away." "It's probably just a cat. People leave them here when they don't want 'em." "NO. We have to get away."
I tell you, I don't have ANY idea what was going through his head, but he was scared, and the look in his eyes scared me, and we bolted. I dunno what was in those woods, but it was freakin' weird. I've heard all sorts of explanations for this whole thing, but the more I look back on that night, the more I can't help but feel there WAS something in those woods and we did need to get away from them. I certainly felt like that looking into his eyes.
Jd. Curitiba was like that. I mean, I've got a lot of other stories of spooky things happening, and some of them make for great campfire ghost stories, but most of 'em I can explain. That though, I've never figured out.
Oh, and I promised a myth, huh?
So this one shames me a bit, because it was a belief people had on my mission, that there was such a thing as "Pure Blooded" Mormons. You see, we had a guy who was directly descended from John Taylor, and it so happened that this guy really was an amazing guy and an amazing missionary. Unfortunately, it reinforced in the heads of some Brazilian missionaries that there were levels of purity of Mormon heritage. Like, if you were descended from Prophets, Apostles, or Pioneers you were up top. If your family descended from the first converts in a country, you were near top. If you were a neophyte, well, that just wasn't right.
And somehow they took this to also mean that Brazilians and Utahns in specific shouldn't intermarry, and that Utahns would never accept Brazilians. There's a whole story accompanying how this crazy belief came about on my mission, involving one particularly unlucky and hapless missionary, but for his sake I'll just say all of it was bogus and I spent like, a full month trying to convince my companion and others (it was a weird disease mostly belonging to the Secretaries) that it was flat out wrong.
So that's what I've got.
EDIT: SenseiJinx, where did you serve? Because I totally have heard the one with the desk and chair moving.
Other mission stories. There was the elder that had gay sex with the single guy that housed him. There was the love shack which happened to be a garage apartment that was purported to be famous for the two elders who lived there getting it on.
There was the elder famous for being able to astrally project. Then there were the district and zone trainings that were copied and passed around the mission. Those were the best. I made sure that my own trainings were so full of gnostic references, apocryphal quotes, pseudopigraphal quotes, and images from other cultures that they would be immortalized by xerox machines for at least a decade.
Hell I gave a whole training with the book of jasher as the basis. After reading every approved missionary source and memorizing half of the book of alma I started collecting. One of the institute buildings had a full library with the entire journal of discourses. I got copies of the Nah Hammadi Library and every work by nibley. I had binders full of copied improvement eras that were stored in the old california ward libraries.
I think my favorite was my lesson on the temple. I called an elder forward and had us practice a baptism. Except I asked him to reverse our hands. (so the grips were opposite and he would have been dunked the opposite way) Then I had him take a step back with our hands still in position.
Blew everyone's minds. Missions are crazy.
There was the elder famous for being able to astrally project. Then there were the district and zone trainings that were copied and passed around the mission. Those were the best. I made sure that my own trainings were so full of gnostic references, apocryphal quotes, pseudopigraphal quotes, and images from other cultures that they would be immortalized by xerox machines for at least a decade.
Hell I gave a whole training with the book of jasher as the basis. After reading every approved missionary source and memorizing half of the book of alma I started collecting. One of the institute buildings had a full library with the entire journal of discourses. I got copies of the Nah Hammadi Library and every work by nibley. I had binders full of copied improvement eras that were stored in the old california ward libraries.
I think my favorite was my lesson on the temple. I called an elder forward and had us practice a baptism. Except I asked him to reverse our hands. (so the grips were opposite and he would have been dunked the opposite way) Then I had him take a step back with our hands still in position.
Blew everyone's minds. Missions are crazy.
Oh, so YOU're the reason we're not allowed to have access to any books outside the Missionary Library. That makes sense.
So we're getting to conference season again and you know what that means! CONFERENCE RUMORS!!!
This time there's rumors of them changing the mission length for women to match mens (I doubt it), to announcing that while the church will not support samesex marriage that it will support civil unions (yeah right) to that they'll let a woman say a prayer in conference (I personally wouldn't do it this time right after the whole movement started so as not to be seen as caving to social pressure, but I'd do it soon after)
This time there's rumors of them changing the mission length for women to match mens (I doubt it), to announcing that while the church will not support samesex marriage that it will support civil unions (yeah right) to that they'll let a woman say a prayer in conference (I personally wouldn't do it this time right after the whole movement started so as not to be seen as caving to social pressure, but I'd do it soon after)
I didn't even know this was a thing. Also, I doubt they'll increase mission length for women so soon after doing all that age changing stuff. Gotta let the dust settle first, before ruffling more feathers.
What is this? You lost me.
If you haven't gotten your endowments it won't make sense.
but when you baptize someone you hold your right arm at a square and extend your LEFT arm at waist level palm facing up. The person being baptized places his RIGHT arm palm facing up in your left hand and places his left arm palm facing down resting on your left arm.
Swap left and right for all the hand positions and have the the people in the position to baptize no longer touching each other but hands still in position.
We weren't allowed to either, but I got special permission from the Mission President after reciting to him alma 39 - 42 word for word. I could also recite the chapter heading of all the chapters in the book of mormon. I had also built a concordance and cross referenced all the creation stories in the standard works and all references to the creation story. (I had the text from the temple ceremony mostly memorized as well. It's in one of my mission notebooks) then used a hebraic biblical lexicon to dissect it. I asked because I needed more stuff to reference and cross reference. You have 3 and a half hours to study every morning and you normally only have the bible, the gospel library, and at that point in my mission the discussions.
but when you baptize someone you hold your right arm at a square and extend your LEFT arm at waist level palm facing up. The person being baptized places his RIGHT arm palm facing up in your left hand and places his left arm palm facing down resting on your left arm.
Swap left and right for all the hand positions and have the the people in the position to baptize no longer touching each other but hands still in position.
We weren't allowed to either, but I got special permission from the Mission President after reciting to him alma 39 - 42 word for word. I could also recite the chapter heading of all the chapters in the book of mormon. I had also built a concordance and cross referenced all the creation stories in the standard works and all references to the creation story. (I had the text from the temple ceremony mostly memorized as well. It's in one of my mission notebooks) then used a hebraic biblical lexicon to dissect it. I asked because I needed more stuff to reference and cross reference. You have 3 and a half hours to study every morning and you normally only have the bible, the gospel library, and at that point in my mission the discussions.
I used to eat stuff like that up. Three missionaries, near death experience prophecies, and so on. It may sound silly, but the literal truth of the church and the things that implied were important to me. It's also why I did a lot of reading on the second coming.
Oh I find it more hilarious now that the mormon church doesn't sell "mormon doctrine" anymore and put it out of print.
Thaedolus
Member
Our mission president would always say "Elderes, Mormon Doctrine is NOT Mormon doctrine."
And I always thought to myself "Who is he to say an apostle's words are false, then turn around and tell us another apostle's words are gospel?"
This was when one of the apostles (can't remember who...Maxwell maybe?) made an "apostolic promise" that if we all made 20 contacts a day in our mission, our baptism rate would double. Of course it didn't happen, but our president sure beat us over the head with that promise because it came from an apostle.
what happened?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Locked
- Poll