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[CurlySaysX]

Why do EVO have so many issues with online play? They had similar issues with MS1 and PR.
:*(

 

[Veins]

Finished single player, much shorter and easier than pacific rift. I guess that's what hardcore mode is for. Had a blast, now time for online.

 

[Callibretto]

holy shit skyline, I've seen the video of it before I got the game and it sure look cool but playing it myself using hood cam is a whole different beast. jumping from building into tight small corridor inside a building in high speed while rubble, fires and debris blocking your view for a second then seeing the clearing and jump to another building. it's awesome.

now I can't wait to play that tornado level.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

(I haven't bought this game yet.) Sorry if I missed this, but is there an option in free ride where you can choose "all motor", "all monster truck", "all buggy" etc. when you're selecting the vehicles for the opponents? I like having all-motorcycle races and it was annoying in Pacific Rift to go through the entire list every single time to select things.

 

[chalkitdown1]

It's actually worse than Pacific Rift. You can't choose what the AI race in at all, it's completely random. It's a baffling omission really.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

Thanks for the reply, I guess I'll wait for an update.

 

[chalkitdown1]

Online seems completely bolloxed again today. I'm getting freezes, unable to find lobbies, track voting disappearing and worst of all, connection errors right after I've won a bloody race. They need to get this shit fixed asap. It's ridiculous. It was fine for me yesterday for some reason.

 

[Varth]

God no. And I Doubt I ever will. To get the trophies you have to complete 25 special events which can be either the hardcore races or the time trials. You just have to complete them not win anything, ie: simply set a lap time on 25 tracks and the trophy is yours.

WAT? Is that all? I thought you had to WIN 25 of them.

 

[kinoki]

For me 1.02 has been pure heaven. No freezes or problems connecting. Waiting for players time has been reduced to a fraction of what it was before. And I advanced from rank 18 to 23 in two hours driving some of the best laps I've ever done. This game has really got me hooked.

That card-collectathon will be the last trophy I aim for. After I've hit 40 I'll do it to be rid of it. Whoever uttered the words: "Perhaps we should put in some collectables on the stages" should seriously reconsider his/her importance in the industry before they wreck something else. Actually, my disgust for the entire offline portion of the game is baffling. I love the online and will play this all year and buy every single item of DLC that adds to it, but I can't stand the offline at all. Get rid of it.

 

[British Monsoon]

Anyone else totally disappointed at the lack of content? It's been a while since I played Pacific Rift, but there seemed to be a ton of stuff to do and I spent weeks and weeks completing gold on every race. In Apocalypse all I've got left to do is collect every card (tedious, so fucking tedious) and do every hardcore race (which are really TOO fucking difficult, and whatsmore hold no significant reward whatsoever - would it have been so hard to include a gold trophy for doing all those races?). Also, the online is totally fucked for me, I haven't had a single race as it keeps crashing before I ever get the chance to start one, but even with the online working 100% I'd still be disappointed at the length of the single player content on offer here. IMO Evolution should have spent less time (or preferably no time) on the cut-scenes and the story and just concentrated on providing a ton of races that would have kept me playing for months, like they did with Pacific Rift.

 

[test_account]

Surely a coincidence. I have more than enough room on my PS3 and I played a ton of MS3 online games already. It just happens randomly from time to time. It's annyoing though.

I just thought it was funny/wierd that after i deleted 2 demos, then the game didnt freeze on me (and it still hasnt froze on me 2 days later) But yeah, it might be a coincidence, maybe they fixed something on the server side at the same time when i deleted the servers.

Anyone else totally disappointed at the lack of content? It's been a while since I played Pacific Rift, but there seemed to be a ton of stuff to do and I spent weeks and weeks completing gold on every race. In Apocalypse all I've got left to do is collect every card (tedious, so fucking tedious) and do every hardcore race (which are really TOO fucking difficult, and whatsmore hold no significant reward whatsoever - would it have been so hard to include a gold trophy for doing all those races?). Also, the online is totally fucked for me, I haven't had a single race as it keeps crashing before I ever get the chance to start one, but even with the online working 100% I'd still be disappointed at the length of the single player content on offer here. IMO Evolution should have spent less time (or preferably no time) on the cut-scenes and the story and just concentrated on providing a ton of races that would have kept me playing for months, like they did with Pacific Rift.

I do own all 3 Motorstorm games from the PS3, but i never really took that much time to play the 2 first ones, so i cant really compare Motorstorm Apocalypse that much to them.

But about Motorstorm Apocalyse's content, you have an ok lengthy (in my opinion) single player campaign. When you're done with that, you can move on to collect the cards. After that you can choose between hardcore mode or time trials. Then you also have custom races with the possibility with split-screen upto 4 players. You also have 13 vehicle classes with around 35-40 vehicles in total, and all vechiles can be customized. And finally you have a pretty rich online part with much challenges and unlocks (online still has some issues indeed, but i'm sure that it will be fixed fairly soon).

As far as content goes as it is now, i feel that the game has a good enough amount of content. How fun all of this content is variates from person to person though, but compared to other games in the same genre, then i would say that the game has a good enough amount of content

But all that said, i do agree that the single player stuff is pretty straight formward. Personally i dont mind it that much though. How was the single player stuff in the previous Motorstorm games by the way? Was it like more challenges or something?

 

[crispyben]

Online seems completely bolloxed again today. I'm getting freezes, unable to find lobbies, track voting disappearing and worst of all, connection errors right after I've won a bloody race. They need to get this shit fixed asap. It's ridiculous. It was fine for me yesterday for some reason.

Same here, at least we know it's not our doing... I managed to get to rank 7 before it became ridiculous, which is a shame since I was having fun. Hopefully it's fixed by tomorrow night or I'll go back and get the Platinum trophy for deBlob 2...

 

[Varth]

WAT? Is that all? I thought you had to WIN 25 of them.

Actually, After trying a couple of races, I have an horrible doubt. For the trophy to unlock, you have to upload the time for each race to the leaderboard, is that right? If so, I'm screwed

Due to a bug related to the Licence Agreement that Evolution didn't see fit to patch so far, I'm forced to play with 2 save games. One for offline (where I have all the races unlocked and the festival done), the other for online (where I can connect to the Leaderboard, if and when it works, but have 0% festival).

And I still have to play 2 online races in a row. What a bug-ridden mess of a lovely game

 

[test_account]

Actually, After trying a couple of races, I have an horrible doubt. For the trophy to unlock, you have to upload the time for each race to the leaderboard, is that right? If so, I'm screwed

Due to a bug related to the Licence Agreement that Evolution didn't see fit to patch so far, I'm forced to play with 2 save games. One for offline (where I have all the races unlocked and the festival done), the other for online (where I can connect to the Leaderboard, if and when it works, but have 0% festival).

And I still have to play 2 online races in a row. What a bug-ridden mess of a lovely game

I dont think that you have to upload the scores, but for a round to be valid/registered, you must not crash (and probably not do stage reset either). If you crash you will see that there is a line drawn over the timer and then that round is not valid as far as i know. I got this trophy earlier today, i did 24 time trails without crashing and 1 hardcore race within the time limit

What is the EULA bug by the way? Did you disagree with it the first time it appeared?

 

[chalkitdown1]

Online seems to be working again.

At least for now.........

 

[Varth]

I dont think that you have to upload the scores, but for a round to be valid/registered, you must not crash (and probably not do stage reset either). If you crash you will see that there is a line drawn over the timer and then that round is not valid as far as i know. I got this trophy earlier today, i did 24 time trails without crashing and 1 hardcore race within the time limit

What is the EULA bug by the way? Did you disagree with it the first time it appeared?

Ohhhh, that must be the problem, thank you. I thought the meaning of the line over the time was "you're unable to validate your time by uploading it".

As for the EULA bug: seems like if you accepted the EULA before the first patch you are unable to go online, since it always gives you a strange number error. Only way to prevent this, as I found in the PS forum, is to delete the save that keeps track of you accepting the EULA. Luckily I have PS+, so I can swap quickly, but it's a pain in the ass -___-

 

[test_account]

Ohhhh, that must be the problem, thank you. I thought the meaning of the line over the time was "you're unable to validate your time by uploading it".

No problem I'm not sure why they made it like this though, since crashing will only make your lap slower. Perhaps it is to avoid potential glitching. I remember in Modnation Racers there was some crash/reset glitching that made it possible to get laptimes on under 1 second. But i saw a lap time in Motorstorm Apocalypse that was like 0.03 seconds, so maybe it isnt a 100% foolproof system.

As for the EULA bug: seems like if you accepted the EULA before the first patch you are unable to go online, since it always gives you a strange number error. Only way to prevent this, as I found in the PS forum, is to delete the save that keeps track of you accepting the EULA. Luckily I have PS+, so I can swap quickly, but it's a pain in the ass -___-

Ah ok. Sounds like a wierd bug indeed hehe, never heard of something similar like this before in other games. But hopefully they will manage to fix it in an upcoming patch

 

[leng jai]

I wonder if they will fix the audio in this game, its completely borked.

 

[test_account]

I wonder if they will fix the audio in this game, its completely borked.

Which audio problems is that? Personally i havnt noticed any audio related issues yet.

 

[consoul]

I had audio issues with this game every time I played it. Sound dropping to low levels mid-race and sometimes to complete silence. Restarting the race wouldn't fix it and even quitting back to the main menu didn't help.

Last night after several instances of audio problems in MS:A, I rebooted the PS3, went into audio settings and switched from Automatic to Manual. I played for several hours afterward without a single audio problem. YMMV, but it could be worth a try if you're experiencing issues.

 

[Thrakier]

Online was fine tonight. Besides the betting system. Either I still don't get it or it is bugged. It's not working as I think it should. And for the life of me, I can't win this stupid mini race in the medium campagin! Love the track though.

 

[Afrikan]

right now my brother and our cousin are playing Split-screen Online.....with one person using the Driving Force GT wheel..and the other using the DS3

everything seems to be running fine.

 

[Totobeni]

Reading some of the posts here it seems like this game got shipped unfinished and completely unpolished.

I was hoping for a patch that fix the Rubber band AI, now I don't know if I want the game with all it's other problems (and Rubber band AI).

 

[chalkitdown1]

Online was working fine again from about 8 onwards last night. It was completely fucked earlier in the day, though. Got myself up to Rank 14 now. Progressing slowly.

I haven't experienced any sound issues by the way. Seems fine to me.

What problems are you having with the betting, Thrakier?

 

[leng jai]

Which audio problems is that? Personally i havnt noticed any audio related issues yet.

Some pretty severe volume imbalances. Engine sounds are weak and close to non-existant while the "catastrophic" events are extremely loud even when far off in the distance. Landing from high falls/jumps also has barely any audio.

 

[Afrikan]

so anyone have the pleasure in playing this in 3D with a steering wheel? right in front of the TV?

I can only imagine. O_O

game is extremely fun with a wheel...it seems like different cars have different force feedback, as they should...but for some reason I thought this feature was just tacked on at last second and would be gimped.....also I think the stage/weather also comes into play regarding the feedback.

 

[Varth]

Online was fine tonight. Besides the betting system. Either I still don't get it or it is bugged. It's not working as I think it should. And for the life of me, I can't win this stupid mini race in the medium campagin! Love the track though.

I think it's by far the hardest race in the game. took something like 10 attempts to win vs 2-3 tops for the whole game.

 

[crispyben]

I think it's by far the hardest race in the game. took something like 10 attempts to win vs 2-3 tops for the whole game.

I agree, nothing in the rest of the campaign has the same kind of difficulty spike... Again that makes the game seem unpolished, or rushed out. Likewise with the unstable online, which is worrisome since the game is only out in part of the world!

 

[Thrakier]

What problems are you having with the betting, Thrakier?

If I press square after a race, next race my multiplier somtimes still is the same and didn't go up. If I don't press square after the race, my multiplier is sometimes higher and the bonuschips are still there (for my understanding, the bonus should be gone if you don't press square, shouldn't it?).

 

[glaurung]

Spent some more time with multiplayer this weekend.

It is still very much broken in some places, but the worst cases were these:

• Voting for tracks does not seem to work. The tracks selection simply does not appear and the countdown ticker goes down, then there is an awkward pause and then a track is chosen at random. Very annoying.
• Betting does not seem to work properly either. I don't think anyone can grasp the idea behind it without some assistance... Plus it feels slow and there are severe timeouts as well.
• You can only mute players in the pre-race lobby. That has to be the stupidest design choice ever. In the end of my session, I simply muted everyone that had a speaker icon next to their name, because - I swear to god - all of them were retarded Spanish-speaking morons. Who's speech sounded like someone was vomiting in my ears. If you cannot fucking speak English, get your own game.
• Insanely long loading of players into the track. At times it felt like I was shown the flyby camera for two minutes. Then someone usually disconnected and then usually the host disconnected, which meant that all players were booted out of the race and the lobby was disbanded. What made things more retarded - I seemed to be earning chips in cases like these. At some point I noticed that I had gone up a rank when trying to find a new MP game.

There were cases where I suspected that someone was hacking the game to get better times. For some reason in some races the first place managed to finish over 30s ahead of the pack and that pack wasn't made up from bad drivers either. I can understand that someone can learn all tracks by heart and then dominate through sheer skill, but gaps like these make me suspicious.

Otherwise it is still an awesome racer and I will keep coming back to it.

 

[G_Berry]

Ok, so i have a couple questions:
1.Are those tracks in the game? If so then, damn...so good.
2.Could you please please please post those tracks in your next post?
3.And if those tracks are not apart of MS:A then what genre would that music fall under? Fuckin' love that kind of music...


Now OT, wow! Anyone who says that that is bad graphics or "near PS2" is a complete dick and or troll. There are universal truths in this plain of existance and the truth is this is an amazing, un-fuckin-believably exhilarating experience, and this is just by watching those three videos! I have both MotorStorms and this is a no-brainer. When does it hit the states?

I wouldn't say PS2 level graphics but based on the demo, they were average at best.

I must be a troll and a dick then?

 

[kinoki]

• Voting for tracks does not seem to work. The tracks selection simply does not appear and the countdown ticker goes down, then there is an awkward pause and then a track is chosen at random. Very annoying.

I think this is because the player and the server isn't synched. People can still vote, only not you.

• Betting does not seem to work properly either. I don't think anyone can grasp the idea behind it without some assistance... Plus it feels slow and there are severe timeouts as well.

Well, I got it after my first race. You just have to bet against someone you think you can win over. But on the other hand it's a bit bugged when it comes to multipliers.

• You can only mute players in the pre-race lobby. That has to be the stupidest design choice ever. In the end of my session, I simply muted everyone that had a speaker icon next to their name, because - I swear to god - all of them were retarded Spanish-speaking morons. Who's speech sounded like someone was vomiting in my ears. If you cannot fucking speak English, get your own game.

I have my head-set on standby in case that happens. Activating it and setting it on mute is awesome. Then I just put it down on the table next to the couch and I'm free to enjoy my music in peace.

• Insanely long loading of players into the track. At times it felt like I was shown the flyby camera for two minutes. Then someone usually disconnected and then usually the host disconnected, which meant that all players were booted out of the race and the lobby was disbanded. What made things more retarded - I seemed to be earning chips in cases like these. At some point I noticed that I had gone up a rank when trying to find a new MP game.

Since 1.2 I haven't noticed this at all. Bummer dude.

There were cases where I suspected that someone was hacking the game to get better times. For some reason in some races the first place managed to finish over 30s ahead of the pack and that pack wasn't made up from bad drivers either. I can understand that someone can learn all tracks by heart and then dominate through sheer skill, but gaps like these make me suspicious.

I've had a few races where I've won with over 30 seconds and everyone has been decent drivers. I don't know what causes this if it's a bug or something. I kept racing like the other players were breathing down my neck only to discover that I've done 3 perfect laps, taken the right course and simply just boosted at the right time. Well, atleast I'd like to think that.

 

[iFootball]

...[*]You can only mute players in the pre-race lobby. That has to be the stupidest design choice ever. In the end of my session, I simply muted everyone that had a speaker icon next to their name, because - I swear to god - all of them were retarded Spanish-speaking morons. Who's speech sounded like someone was vomiting in my ears. If you cannot fucking speak English, get your own game...

dude... wow....


" Welcome to Earth! (Note: Many languages spoken) "

 

[Thrakier]

dude... wow....


" Welcome to Earth! (Note: Many languages spoken) "

Really...unbelievable. *smh*

 

[MultiCore]

I wouldn't say PS2 level graphics but based on the demo, they were average at best.

I must be a troll and a dick then?

I've never been one to praise the MotorStorm series, but the retail build of this game is gorgeous. Right up there with Wipeout HD.

It plays much better than the other MS games too. (I finished the Rookie mode, working on 5th or so race of the Pro mode.)

In my humble opinion, at least.

 

[backbreaker65]

GameSpot Review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ys_a3JPQwY&feature=feedu

 

[Maastricht]

GameSpot Review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ys_a3JPQwY&feature=feedu

Couldn't agree more.

It does illustrate that the betting system is hard to grasp for some though. It mentions that you can bet on who you think wins the race, which is what I thought at first too. But after one or two online races I figured out that you actually bet on yourself beating a driver of your choice, with better drivers giving you more cash if you manage to beat them. Also you can rebet your winnings for the next time, to increase your winnings (or lose it all). And finally, a win streak will increase your win ratio by 0.25 until it maxes out at 2.0 and resets (which gives you a trophy)

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Spent some more time with multiplayer this weekend.

It is still very much broken in some places, but the worst cases were these:

• Voting for tracks does not seem to work. The tracks selection simply does not appear and the countdown ticker goes down, then there is an awkward pause and then a track is chosen at random. Very annoying.
• Betting does not seem to work properly either. I don't think anyone can grasp the idea behind it without some assistance... Plus it feels slow and there are severe timeouts as well.
  [*]You can only mute players in the pre-race lobby. That has to be the stupidest design choice ever. In the end of my session, I simply muted everyone that had a speaker icon next to their name, because - I swear to god - all of them were retarded Spanish-speaking morons. Who's speech sounded like someone was vomiting in my ears. If you cannot fucking speak English, get your own game.
• Insanely long loading of players into the track. At times it felt like I was shown the flyby camera for two minutes. Then someone usually disconnected and then usually the host disconnected, which meant that all players were booted out of the race and the lobby was disbanded. What made things more retarded - I seemed to be earning chips in cases like these. At some point I noticed that I had gone up a rank when trying to find a new MP game.

There were cases where I suspected that someone was hacking the game to get better times. For some reason in some races the first place managed to finish over 30s ahead of the pack and that pack wasn't made up from bad drivers either. I can understand that someone can learn all tracks by heart and then dominate through sheer skill, but gaps like these make me suspicious.

Otherwise it is still an awesome racer and I will keep coming back to it.

Racist much?

You do realize that on this planet there are other languages besides English spoken right?

 

[Hellion]

WTF this game is out? How did I miss this?!

 

[Afrikan]

Racist much?

You do realize that on this planet there are other languages besides English spoken right?

Also, isn't this game not officially released yet in Native English speaking countries?

like the U.K. and the U.S.?

anyway, I don't know why some have problems with others speaking another language..I love hearing it.

it was funny the other day, some were speaking Spanish in the Socom Beta...and someone went crazy like "WTF? THERE'S A BUNCH OF FOREIGNERS IN HERE!!".. I was laughing my arse off, cause he seemed serious and surprised...and mad for some reason.

 

[canadian crowe]

Also, isn't this game not officially released yet in Native English speaking countries?

like the U.K. and the U.S.?

anyway, I don't know why some have problems with others speaking another language..I love hearing it.

it was funny the other day, some were speaking Spanish in the Socom Beta...and someone went crazy like "WTF? THERE'S A BUNCH OF FOREIGNERS IN HERE!!".. I was laughing my arse off, cause he seemed serious and surprised...and mad for some reason.

You were likely playing with glaurung.

I just picked up Motorstorm 1, and it is impossible. I can't win a race. How's the 'slipping and sliding' in this game? I know it's not in the mud, but damn did Motorstorm frustrate me.

 

[JustAnotherOtaku]

Is the 31st the official UK date? Why isn't it on Friday like the majority of other games? Also, anyone re-preorder this at GAME after it was delayed and orders cancelled and have no movement on it yet? I have Shift 2 on preorder too, which is out on Friday, and I've been charged for it and should be posted tomorrow of Wednesday but no updates yet on this :/

 

[BatmanX]

Well the more I play the less I feel it. It's a solid racer, but it don't just feels like a real motorstorm to me, anymore

Even if its understandable that evo choose for something different to avoid releasing a game that seems a data disk of pacific rift, doesn't mean that they have to substract the nature of the game. Didn't they?

It's little bit like r2 all over again, the peculiarities of the previous games are almost vanished, its less challenging , less punishing, you don't have to be so careful choosing the right pattern of the track, , the handling feels lightier and more arcadey than before and even the music sounds more as wipeout than motorstorm.

I'm little disappointed in the single player, tbh. The multiplayer seems very solid on the other hand..but I've just scratched the surface of it

 

[fernoca]

• You can only mute players in the pre-race lobby. That has to be the stupidest design choice ever. In the end of my session, I simply muted everyone that had a speaker icon next to their name, because - I swear to god - all of them were retarded Spanish-speaking morons. Who's speech sounded like someone was vomiting in my ears. If you cannot fucking speak English, get your own game.

• 
  Hahaha, wow. That's spanish for: Hahaha, wow
  Guess I'm also a spanish-speaking "moron".

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Also, isn't this game not officially released yet in Native English speaking countries?

like the U.K. and the U.S.?

anyway, I don't know why some have problems with others speaking another language..I love hearing it.

it was funny the other day, some were speaking Spanish in the Socom Beta...and someone went crazy like "WTF? THERE'S A BUNCH OF FOREIGNERS IN HERE!!".. I was laughing my arse off, cause he seemed serious and surprised...and mad for some reason.

Yea. UK and US got delayed release so it's not "officially" out in either place yet. UK got lucky and had it in the retail channel and shipping already to customers at the time they delayed there. Hence why there are some with it already.

 

[chalkitdown1]

Online seems to be back to 100%. Had dozens of games today with no hiccups. Got to rank 22. Only three trophies left to get, the 30 & 40 rank ones and the drifting one. Can't seem to do that one. Only playing with Big Rigs probably doesn't help.

 

[crispyben]

Online seems to be back to 100%. Had dozens of games today with no hiccups. Got to rank 22. Only three trophies left to get, the 30 & 40 rank ones and the drifting one. Can't seem to do that one. Only playing with Big Rigs probably doesn't help.

That might be the issue there, yeah... I played a few fun games with fellow GAFer everlong416 yesterday night, and he had issues with the same trophy for a while, so just switch vehicles and use the rally car for instance. It would be great if we had more GAFers in the same party, we could create an online thread once the game releases worldwide, but if you want to add me now, my PSN is Grandben. I'm a lowly level 10 who wonders how he'll get 25 medals with his lousy playstyle...

 

[Rhoxin]

A few things:

1. How do some people already have rank +50 ? They played 24/7 since release? Or is there a rank cheat or abuse?

2. How the fuck does an ATV make my buggy FLIP OVER in mid air, doesn't an ATV weigh 1/10 of a buggy?

3. Online races, how come the whole grid races away when the countdown hits 0 and i lag behind everyone? Do they have faster cars or what?

4. I am generally pissed of with the undefined vehicles classes and the physics in this game in general.

I finished single player and so far online is just a rage inducing mess.

 

[Shearie]

That might be the issue there, yeah... I played a few fun games with fellow GAFer everlong416 yesterday night, and he had issues with the same trophy for a while, so just switch vehicles and use the rally car for instance. It would be great if we had more GAFers in the same party, we could create an online thread once the game releases worldwide, but if you want to add me now, my PSN is Grandben. I'm a lowly level 10 who wonders how he'll get 25 medals with his lousy playstyle...

I'll send you an invite next time I turn on my ps3 since I'm gonna get this game whenever it comes out in America but I'm pretty sure I use to have you on my friends list but I guess you deleted me, probably because I never actually played any Uncharted 2 with you when I said I would

 

[kinoki]

A few things:

1. How do some people already have rank +50 ? They played 24/7 since release? Or is there a rank cheat or abuse?

2. How the fuck does an ATV make my buggy FLIP OVER in mid air, doesn't an ATV weigh 1/10 of a buggy?

3. Online races, how come the whole grid races away when the countdown hits 0 and i lag behind everyone? Do they have faster cars or what?

4. I am generally pissed of with the undefined vehicles classes and the physics in this game in general.

I finished single player and so far online is just a rage inducing mess.

1. Never underestimate the power of not sleeping and abusing the betting system.

2. Havok is fun. (See also: Demon's Souls)

3. There's a perk that gives faster acceleration. I use it, it's my favorite. It's unlocked at 20+ something.