Acerac
Banned
Taken from that perspective the complaints really make a lot more sense. That said, the fact that it isn't the typical breed of TV show is one of the main factors that has kept it so enthralling for me.
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Mr. Robot season_2.0 |OT| We Would Care, Bill - Wednesdays on USA
- Thread starter CRS
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Coreda
Member
I get where you're coming from but honestly, that's not what made Mr. Robot S1 interesting to me. The reveal itself was a bit of a let down. The slower pacing bandied about as a criticism also isn't inherently what kept me from enjoying the initial episodes of S2. There are any number of slow paced art house films, sometimes with almost nothing going on, that have been rewarding experiences. Look at some of Tarkovsky's films for example. There can be very little dialog or plot but the audiovisual and emotional experience carries them completely.
Elliot's deluded and amusing ride through the world around him via his thoughts, actions, reactions, sound and photography were the main thing keeping S1 entertaining. The trip was more compelling than the ultimate goal. The show to me is less enjoyable focusing on its take on quasi-reality than leaning into Elliot's fantasy and thoughts, as the series' strength isn't the believability of the supporting characters tbh. It's when the story was switching between scenarios, plots and motivations that I could just roll with the moment to moment experience and forgive the various stereotypes and occasional eye-rolling moments.
The disappointment I had with S2 at first was the expectation it would take a turn into a more interesting alternate reality territory. Elliot went from amusing loner hacker to complete schizophrenic and was less the focus, while to keep things edgy for the premiere they threw in some literal *boom, headshot* moments. Mr Robot himself (if you can call it that) became a husk of the character and settled into a pure tormentor role. Add that there was nothing driving the plot forward for Elliot or much for the supporting characters and there was a lack of interest both story wise, since I didn't feel any particular attachment to the other characters, and visually to a degree (still remains excellent).
Point is people are enjoying the series for different reasons. I'm a bit more optimistic about where it's headed but wanted to address the frankly condescending idea that some weren't enjoying the first few episodes of S2 as much due to not 'being built' for this series and western audiences 'not having the patience for'. It doesn't need defending from differences of opinion in such a way, it's still a solid series.
dead souls
Member
This is one of the my favorite shows on television and I'm really enjoying this season but the people acting like it's high art that anyone who criticizes "just doesn't get it man/isn't wired to hand its complexity" are cracking me up.
There has never been a dramatic television show made that you need to be particularly intelligent to appreciate. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
There has never been a dramatic television show made that you need to be particularly intelligent to appreciate. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
It's not about intelligence or being able to handle high art, but it is about viewers being able to handle atypical storytelling which is tied to art that is more inclined toward less mainstream sensibilities. There's really nothing in this show that's revolutionary in and of itself, but it is decidedly different than typical approaches and it's starting to alienate people. Which is honestly pretty normal. Even shows like Sopranos really started alienating people because of the lack of traditional payoffs and all the "psychology bullshit". I personally think there's a clear parallel between people who are dissatisfied with the current season and looking at the "twist" last season as more of a visceral storytelling thrill.
People, just like the modern gamers, want a lot of "in your face" moments in series. If not, they are boring.
Just like gamers wants instant gratification from playing games.
Nothing wrong with that, but this series isn't really like that. It always had a slow pace and long expositions, which makes it a little hard to follow.
Just like gamers wants instant gratification from playing games.
Nothing wrong with that, but this series isn't really like that. It always had a slow pace and long expositions, which makes it a little hard to follow.
This season is VERY slow. Elliot almost in the same place as he began after 4 episodes with his insanity. 4 episodes of trying to deal or get rid of mr robot even though the audience knows probably well beforehand that it won't be possible.
4 episodes and the fbi just gets to a starting point in the investigation
4 episodes and finally Darlene contacts Elliot
4 episodes and Tyrell's wife is still sleepin around trying to figure what to do. We don't know where Tyrell is, which is a mystery dragged on from last years finale
4 episodes and whatever Darlene and crew want to do post hack isn't entirely clear
4 episodes and we don't know what the dark army is doing or wants which was also a last years finales thread
Additional long term mysteries in play: where is Elliot really? What is the black dude doing? And finally a strong plot hook: how will Elliot and Darlene escape the fbi on their trail?
The acting is excellent. The cinematography subperb. Dialogue fantastic. But there is valid criticism in the nature of its story telling. It's taking a long time to do basic things the audience is already expecting
It's a little disingenuous to say that the show is like this so if it's boring to the viewer, then it's the viewer's fault. Other episodes this season were really good, I think this one could have been trimmed tremendously. My biggest problem with it was actually that it was too long when it didn't have to be, along with the story barely moving forward. I wouldn't expect every episode to be all highs, but I would expect them to be interesting. The only interesting thing that happened was at the last 2 minutes -- I could have skipped everything else and feel like I could move on the next episode.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Fantastic episode. I especially enjoyed Elliot making reference to episode 1 when he said "it scratched that part of my mind."
Elliot's dream of his world without loneliness, Phillip Price essentially telling Angela to go fuck herself, and Whiterose talking business were all fantastic.
Elliot's dream of his world without loneliness, Phillip Price essentially telling Angela to go fuck herself, and Whiterose talking business were all fantastic.
I would have thought that last episode, Elliot realized that he's not going to get rid of Mr Robot; I think the whole chess scene and everything leading up to it, surrounding it, Elliot's fantasy sequence, all of that stuff could have been reduced or removed. The viewers already know that it's not going to happen, so it's weird that the show spends so much time setting it up and then denying a payoff.
That already happened last season. We found out this season a little more about how abusive his dad was, which explains why Mr Robot turned into an asshole lately. But they have not touched on it so far either. we only saw a glimpse in the opening of the first episode this season.
I guess admitting it to his psychiatrist is kind of a big deal, but it's just more set up. She didn't really seem that interested either; she seemed more concerned about learning about who Elliot was talking to.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Just because the audience knows, doesn't mean the character cannot try to kill off an entity. It makes sense for Elliot because he doesn't want to continue to lose time and end up where he doesn't remember being. If everything was based on audience knowledge, then there'd be no story because nothing would be expected to push forward since you can always rely on the audience knowing. Also, let's not forget that S1 implies on many occasions that Mr. Robot was once killed off ("They are never going to break us apart again. They are going to try to get rid of me again, and I need you to not let them. I will never leave you alone again").
What did you think was going to happen? The scenes with law enforcement and fbi intentionally show how they're laughably behind in dealing with cybercrime. Moreover, Dom only got to the arcade but has no proof that internet activity took place in this place (maybe that changes if she finds code related to the 5/9 attack, but that's not looking very positive considering how well fsociety cleaned up and destroyed their hard drives). Fsociety covered their tracks well enough that no one knows who's in the group.
Elliot was out of commission as he was trying to deal with Mr. Robot, and Darlene had to be the leader of fsociety and deal with trying to kill the public's confidence in ECorp. She organized the protest in DC (much to Elliot's chagrin), organized the hack in Madame Executioner's home, etc. They're both busy with their issues, so of course they were going to take a while before Darlene contacted Elliot and asked for help.
Tyrell isn't a plot point that needs to be rectified ASAP. All we know is that he's apparently alive. However, the more interesting point is that it appears Mr. Robot and Tyrell had devised a plan together after 5/9. Whether that involves hacking, or satisfying Tyrell's ego remains to be seen.
They want to twist the knife on ECorp's dying body. If they kill public confidence (which seems low but barely hanging in there), then ECorp has effectively failed and will not be able to simply rebuild their database. Everyone will have already taken their business elsewhere. That's why the Elliot-Robot scene in the beginning of Ep4 was significant. They're focusing on the idea that it's simple to hack a company if you know what you're doing, but it's much harder to kill it off since they can simply rebuild.
Like Tyrell, Dark Army's motivations don't necessarily have to be rectified ASAP. The implication is that Whiterose is playing both sides, maybe out of intrigue, but more likely because he wants to manipulate the market to his benefit (which would explain why they ended up following through after Elliot destroyed the vulnerability during Whiterose's meeting) and wants Price handcuffed in terms of his ability to recover from 5/9.
I was just using your reasoning about this season and it's 'unneeded' scenes to one of the most important moments of last season.
Slow pace != Terrible pacing.
First season was slow but pacing felt perfect, in contrast this season feels even slower but with minimum payoffs and no real plot points moving forward. Still top notch photography and acting but I do feel the script quality is not up to par with last season either. I do hope that at the end this season feels more solid buy so far I'm very disappointed since I had very high expectations. One would think that the least problem would be pacing since Sam is directing all episodes but oh well.
Tbh, a lot of those scenes with Mr Robot and Elliot in the season finale could've been trimmed also. This isn't a new problem with the show. I just found it particularly frustrating with this last episode.
Edit: maybe the best way to put it is what someone else said earlier. The slow pacing doesn't make the show bad; slow pacing isn't the same as the pacing outright being terrible. I even liked the first couple of episodes this season a lot. Even though the show as a whole suffers from I think dull moments. I just had a lot of problems with the last episode where there really was nothing happening that warranted an entire episode's length and then extra time on top of it.
But it's their plot and they want it now!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
There's a plot???
A group of young hackers want to destroy capitalism. But they haven't been doing much lately.
Dominican Power
Member
I love the slow burn. What's the rush?
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I felt like a dumbass googling for this movie...
All of those explanations make sense, I'm just saying taking four episodes to get here was too long IMO. Almost everything in that post we knew from episode 1 or the finale last year
The only things unexpected really that has been happening is the CEOs interactions with Angela and Elliot wanting to hack the fbi. Everything else has been dragged out to the nth degree with minimal character progression besides getting deeper into everyone's heads. Extended looks at Elliot's insanity, Tyrell's wife coping, Angela's struggle with being in evil Corp, fsocietys malfunction as they get in the fbi headlights. There were a few surprise beats of course to move things forward like Gideon's death, but most the characters haven't changed much or started any kind of arcs. It's been like 4 episodes of setup
It's because the Premiere had a different set of advertisers. They had Gold 4 Cash or something during the Premiere and Wendy's? and other less 'fuck' friendly ads.
I think there were way more than 5 in this episode I think Darlene said it 5 times in one 2-minute conversation. Probably at least 10-15.
I still think its stupid. This show is about as mature as it gets and advertisers need to just chill.
Seriously, you see things like Coke ads before R-rated movies.
FX broke the "fuck" ban with OJ but even on the lowly rated Tyrant they used it again this week.
Again, violence and sex are are ok but words aren't? And cunt was used in this episode. A lot of people feel that's more offensive than "fuck".
Leona Lewis
Banned
You can purchase the season VOD if it's that important I guess.
CreepingFear
Member
Future Dream sequence was very Raising Arizona inspired. Loved it.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I really like how episode one is really Elliot just figuring out that h'es not the good guy.
.... yeah, okay. Sure thing.
.... yeah, okay. Sure thing.
Not that important. Just stupid. And the audio drops are annoying.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Was that a tv thing? I heard about this before, but didn't notice any fade outs when I watched (Amazon Prime).
Messofanego
Banned
God, the late title card to episode 4 with the dramatic music felt like a silent horror film homage! LOVED IT
Leona Lewis
Banned
I think he means the cuts to commercials, so it wouldn't be a problem on Prime. The editing in that respect is kind of haphazard.
captjohnboyd
Member
Sorry to say but I actually agree with the poster to a degree. This season is a pretty marked difference from the first and I've spoken to a number of people that are having a hard time adjusting to the tonal shift. I'm not sure that means they don't "get it" but certainly there's less enthusiasm.
I think there's a point to be made with the "meat" comment as well. This season has been more esoteric and it's working at a more deliberate pace. After the more exciting first season some people I've spoken with are having a harder time seeing the overall big picture.
Esmail said the first season was pitched as a movie initially before being turned into a show and I seem to recall reading that he meant for this season to be a different genre than the first. Maybe that's just been too abrupt a change for some viewers to handle.
Anecdotal and all that I know
Just to be clear I'm loving it. I'd say so far, in my estimation, it's a more refined experience and Esmail has found more of his voice through taking a more hands on approach to the show running
EdibleExplosives
Member
Oh, I thought he meant a literal fade effect between scenes which I've heard complaints about before from people who watched recordings of when it aired on tv.
Not sure if it was a network thing, or whoever edited the recording to cut out the ad breaks.
that's what it is. Ad break stuff.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I don't think 4 episodes is long considering what's transpired. It would have felt jarring if it was halved. As for arcs, we're still in the first half of the season, so there could be a couple of seeds planted for arcs to come into place.
anyways, what an interesting promo.
The show seems to be showcasing TOR protocol again, which means Ray is up to no good with darknet shenanigans. His business is pretty intriguing considering it could be just about anything. With Elliot being the vigilante hacker he is, I wonder if he takes down Ray's business as he's hacking the FBI.
