"MS has read the market wrong regardless correcting their mistake with Xbox One" WhatCulture Gaming

Eh, both Sony and MS are disappointing this gen. It's just been a slew of cross gen PS4 titles on PlayStation which make me question why I even bought the PS5, and MS has been a desert for game releases.

MS's Bethesda acquisition needs time in the oven though. I doubt we'll be saying this when the next Elder Scrolls title drops, or even Starfield which is looking promising.

Sony on the other hand need to announce something that isn't comic book trash. I'm starting to feel like their whole approach to exclusives is turning too Disney.
 
SlimySnake said:
Everyone of these guys is paid by Microsoft. It was well known that MS pays their astroturfers. They have just gone from shitting up forums to twitter where they can get a larger following and spread Xbox propaganda without worrying about getting banned by mods on forums for openly shilling.

Look up their MVP program. They literally reward their biggest fanboys with MVP awards. Era mod Judge used to be an MVP and would ban anyone criticizing MS or Xbox twitter fanboys. They have also flown out their most ardent fanboys to 'fan retreats' where they get to meet XBox execs and engineers. Poor Senjutsu got banned from old gaf because he bet his account that the xbox one x would have a zen CPU. Turns out a high level Xbox exec had told him as much at a MS fan event and the dude believed him because why wouldnt you.

MS fosters this kind of blind loyalty. They do it with cash, with empty promises, access to high level execs (Phil Spencer was part of the infamous xbox era discord that was spreading fake PS5 tflops rumors on gaf and era, he just never posted but everyone knew he was there and read the chat so they felt special) and freebies.
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Its so fucking disgusting. Shit company all around
 
rolandss said:
I doubt we'll be saying this when the next Elder Scrolls title drops
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True, we won't be in a position to speak.

EFcHGI8.gif
 
The killer app is Gamepass, not any one game. MS has said publicly they're trying to be Netflix with GP. Most people do not have Netflix for any one show or movie. People have it because it gives them immediately access to a huge catalog of content, even if a vast majority of that content is mediocre to bad.
 
AmuroChan said:
The killer app is Gamepass, not any one game. MS has said publicly they're trying to be Netflix with GP. Most people do not have Netflix for any one show or movie. People have it because it gives them immediately access to a huge catalog of content, even if a vast majority of that content is mediocre to bad.
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bad timing.
 
I smelled a rat when MS released the series x/s without a game at launch. I've been gaming since late 1980's and have never seen that, EVER.

Selling a new console on old games was a terrible precedent for the industry and deserved to fail. Then the infinite debarcle surprised me, it needed to be the killer app and fell short. Now it's getting to the point where I'm genuinely concerned if Xbox are capable of creating consistent high quality games.

Contrast that with Sony having their best generation start ever and it must be squeaky bum time over at Xbox HQ.
 
feynoob said:
All it takes is 1-2 year for gamers to forget about all the bad shit, as long as Xbox can get their act together.

3-4AAA drop in every year, and people will forget about all these issues.
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The problem is people have been told "just be patient, games are coming" ever since 360 glory days prior to MS going all in on Kinect.
 
rolandss said:
Eh, both Sony and MS are disappointing this gen. It's just been a slew of cross gen PS4 titles on PlayStation which make me question why I even bought the PS5, and MS has been a desert for game releases.

MS's Bethesda acquisition needs time in the oven though. I doubt we'll be saying this when the next Elder Scrolls title drops, or even Starfield which is looking promising.

Sony on the other hand need to announce something that isn't comic book trash. I'm starting to feel like their whole approach to exclusives is turning too Disney.
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Pretty much. I bought a series X in June of 2021, mainly because I did not have a Xbox One and I wanted to play the finally fixed Master Chief Collection.

While I have enjoyed GamePass quite a bit, and think it's a hell of a value...

I don't think there is a single game I own on the Series X that isn't available on PS4/XB1.

My son jokingly asked me to buy a PS5 today, and I asked him. Name one game you want that we can't play on the Series X or PS4.

He struggled, and finally said Spider-Man 2. Which I said isn't out yet, so that don't count. :P

I thought the PS4/XB1 era had a rough start, but this is bad. It is not just Microsoft (though they definitely could be doing better). Yeah PS5's are flying off the shelves and blah blah..

It doesn't change the fact that damn near halfway thru a generation we have maybe a handful of quality games solely exclusive to this gen?

My 4K TV is broken right now, getting a refund soon. So my Series X has been hooked up to our nice 49 inch LG tv that is 1080p for the past couple weeks. Thing is a champ, PS4 and Switch games still look great on it.

Why am not I surprised that when playing my Series X on it (the 1080p LG) whether it be Resident Evil 4 or Halo Infinite....

That the difference just isn't there? It all looks like a minor upgrade on this TV, like the Wii U to the Switch. I struggle to see a significant visual difference between gens on a 1080p TV.

To me, the jump to 4K was not worth it. Yes you can see a very crisp and beautiful picture on 4K, but the games for the most part just get a resolution boost, or a frame rate boost. It doesn't feel like a new gen. It feels like an expansion pak.

To be fair, I think this has a lot to do with TV manufacturers who keep pushing out new higher pixel displays when it's not really needed. Then they become the standard, and then by the time they are finally entrenched boom another standard comes out.

But it also has to do with dumbass gamers and tech goons. Like who the fuck needs a 4k screen on their fucking phone? Or a 10 inch tablet? It's this type of mind set I feel that is just fucking with gaming in general.

Microsoft shot themselves in the foot console wise by having all their games day 1 with PC. They didn't take the steps to try and unify development like Nintendo was forced to.

Now this whole gen is filled with half steps, unfinished games, patches everywhere. It's last gen but worse.

And people want an upgrade? PS5+ or Series XX? You are just enabling these motherfuckers to continue shitting out a generation.
 
Xbox has been my preferred console over the last 20 something years. If something doesn't change, this will be my last console generation with them. Luckily I have always been a multi platform owner, so I don't totally hate gaming life.
 
Mr Reasonable said:
Wow.

Should've delayed Redfall.
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Jedi Survivor should have been delayed. Cyberpunk should have been delayed. Those are good games held back by major performance issues.

Redfall, by all accounts, seems to be a mediocre game at its core, that also suffers from performance, graphics and AI issues. You can delay to fix those, but you're just spending more time and money to release a game that isn't going to be good anyway.
 
SlimySnake said:
Everyone of these guys is paid by Microsoft. It was well known that MS pays their astroturfers. They have just gone from shitting up forums to twitter where they can get a larger following and spread Xbox propaganda without worrying about getting banned by mods on forums for openly shilling.

Look up their MVP program. They literally reward their biggest fanboys with MVP awards. Era mod Judge used to be an MVP and would ban anyone criticizing MS or Xbox twitter fanboys. They have also flown out their most ardent fanboys to 'fan retreats' where they get to meet XBox execs and engineers. Poor Senjutsu got banned from old gaf because he bet his account that the xbox one x would have a zen CPU. Turns out a high level Xbox exec had told him as much at a MS fan event and the dude believed him because why wouldnt you.

MS fosters this kind of blind loyalty. They do it with cash, with empty promises, access to high level execs (Phil Spencer was part of the infamous xbox era discord that was spreading fake PS5 tflops rumors on gaf and era, he just never posted but everyone knew he was there and read the chat so they felt special) and freebies.
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The stories I could tell about that Discord lol…

When I infiltrated it, it was completely filled with all the characters you see on social media constantly affiliated either officially or not with XBox.

It was a concerted effort from top to bottom…there's a reason I talked about Phil Spencer weaponizing console wars in another thread. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Pretty sure this has been known for quote sometime. I really want MS to step it up but oh boy is it just one Medicare game after another.
 
feynoob said:
Leaving market means bad for gamers.

Changing means people need to be patient, as it's going to be a painful process.
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I mean, it's also bad for gamers to hype up them buying other publishers when they can't get an exclusive out that has legs or a memory behind it.

Imagine this current management owning the next Diablo or COD, or really anything. The quality would be down but hey, at least you got it for free* on Gamepass!
 
Well.
I've been a PlayStation owner all my life, and having a PC on the side always satisfy my gaming needs.
The only games I don't have access to are the Nintendo ones, but that's what the Steam deck is for.
 
Jerm411 said:
The stories I could tell about that Discord lol…

When I infiltrated it, it was completely filled with all the characters you see on social media constantly affiliated either officially or not with XBox.

It was a concerted effort from top to bottom…there's a reason I talked about Phil Spencer weaponizing console wars in another thread. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Oh that's been going on way before spencer. Before discord even. Greenberg and Major Nelson have been all about that kind of outreach for a long long while.

It's really annoying. I like console wars where you get individuals getting up their own ass trying to justify comically optimistic/pessimistic opinions. That's fun. It will always be lol. But having all that orchestrated in a community is kind of a headache.
 
The brand has made some strides by getting japanese titles on the platform thanks to SEGA porting Persona. IMO, that's what made the OG Xbox so enticing back in the day after you couldn't get Dreamcast like experiences anywhere else. Xbox still has a ways to go this gen to recapture their former glory, but I am really rooting for them to get their shit together. My Xbox sees a lot of love but my PS and Switch always pull me back with some amazing exclusives. C'mon Microsoft!
 
DryvBy said:
I mean, it's also bad for gamers to hype up them buying other publishers when they can't get an exclusive out that has legs or a memory behind it.

Imagine this current management owning the next Diablo or COD, or really anything. The quality would be down but hey, at least you got it for free* on Gamepass!
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The quality of this game is on the hands on arkane.
The release date for this game was 2022. If this come is shit at stage, imagine 2022 release date.

I will agree on the management department. They need strict management.
 
Crayon said:
Oh that's been going on way before spencer. Before discord even. Greenberg and Major Nelson have been all about that kind of outreach for a long long while.

It's really annoying. I like console wars where you get individuals getting up their own ass trying to justify comically optimistic/pessimistic opinions. That's fun. It will always be lol. But having all that orchestrated in a community is kind of a headache.
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You're not wrong…that Discord is just the first place I saw it organized (with XBox people knowing and encouraging it) and with vile intent…
 
Jerm411 said:
You're not wrong…that Discord is just the first place I saw it organized (with XBox people knowing and encouraging it) and with vile intent…
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I wouldn't call the intent vile. It's misguided. The result is kind of vile, which is making the participants miserable.
 
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StueyDuck said:
People really going scorched earth after one bad game huh 🤣

Like didn't hi-fi rush, pentiment and pyschonauts2 all release relatively recently
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Bro you do realize theres like 57 people that played Pentiment right? People are starved for good exclusive blockbusters AAA games, not those niche indie-like games. God of War Ragnarok, Horizon 2, Demon's Souls remake, Final Fantasy 7 remake to give examples from competition, this is what people want, this is what sells hardware and gains new customers in your ecosystem, not Pentiment. When MS finally came with an AAA game it looks and plays like a 2012 game.

They are now relying solely on Starfield being good while Sony already has Spiderman 2 and Final Fantasy 16 for this year. Theres just incompetence at MS and theres no way around it. I'm mainly a PC gamer but prefer xbox over sony anyday btw, in case you think this is coming from a sony fanboy.
 
El Pistolero said:
MS and Bethesda must be doing everytying in their power to ensure that it launches in a good state. A lot rides on Starfield...😀
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Time is what they need to make Starfield as good as it can be. If they aren't delaying the game anymore, then there's only so much time in the world for them.
 
Captain Toad said:
Jedi Survivor should have been delayed. Cyberpunk should have been delayed. Those are good games held back by major performance issues.

Redfall, by all accounts, seems to be a mediocre game at its core, that also suffers from performance, graphics and AI issues. You can delay to fix those, but you're just spending more time and money to release a game that isn't going to be good anyway.
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The sad fact is that all of these games were delayed, in fact some multiple times.

It makes you wonder what state they were in when they were going to launch before the latest delay. Something is seriously broken in game development lately...
 
YuLY said:
Bro you do realize theres like 57 people that played Pentiment right? People are starved for good exclusive blockbusters AAA games, not those niche indie-like games. God of War Ragnarok, Horizon 2, Demon's Souls remake, Final Fantasy 7 remake to give examples from competition, this is what people want, this is what sells hardware and gains new customers in your ecosystem, not Pentiment. When MS finally came with an AAA game it looks and plays like a 2012 game.

They are now relying solely on Starfield being good while Sony already has Spiderman 2 and Final Fantasy 16 for this year. Theres just incompetence at MS and theres no way around it. I'm mainly a PC gamer but prefer xbox over sony anyday btw, in case you think this is coming from a sony fanboy.
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You know that Sony doesn't make final fantasy. Also those are the games you want. I want the western rpgs from Obsidian. Inexile and st. Albans house. I don't need Microsoft to be Sony light. If i want Sony games ill play them on the playstation. I don't want knock offs of Sony's games by Microsoft.
 
quest said:
You know that Sony doesn't make final fantasy. Also those are the games you want. I want the western rpgs from Obsidian. Inexile and st. Albans house. I don't need Microsoft to be Sony light. If i want Sony games ill play them on the playstation. I don't want knock offs of Sony's games by Microsoft.
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I said exclusives, I didnt specify that they need to be first party. I know Square Enix makes FF. In the end it doesnt matter, its a blockbuster AAA title thats not in your ecosystem. And how long do we have to wait until Avowed is out and Inexile tells us about their rumored steampunk rpg of which we know almost nothing about and might be 3+ years away. Meanwhile Sony is pumping out AAA exclusives that seems everyone love.
 
SlimySnake said:
Everyone of these guys is paid by Microsoft. It was well known that MS pays their astroturfers. They have just gone from shitting up forums to twitter where they can get a larger following and spread Xbox propaganda without worrying about getting banned by mods on forums for openly shilling.

Look up their MVP program. They literally reward their biggest fanboys with MVP awards. Era mod Judge used to be an MVP and would ban anyone criticizing MS or Xbox twitter fanboys. They have also flown out their most ardent fanboys to 'fan retreats' where they get to meet XBox execs and engineers. Poor Senjutsu got banned from old gaf because he bet his account that the xbox one x would have a zen CPU. Turns out a high level Xbox exec had told him as much at a MS fan event and the dude believed him because why wouldnt you.

MS fosters this kind of blind loyalty. They do it with cash, with empty promises, access to high level execs (Phil Spencer was part of the infamous xbox era discord that was spreading fake PS5 tflops rumors on gaf and era, he just never posted but everyone knew he was there and read the chat so they felt special) and freebies.
Click to expand...

It's insane. MS, EA, and Ubisoft have shill ARMIES. They think they can buy their way out of bad press.
 
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YuLY said:
I said exclusives, I didnt specify that they need to be first party. I know Square Enix makes FF. In the end it doesnt matter, its a blockbuster AAA title thats not in your ecosystem. And how long do we have to wait until Avowed is out and Inexile tells us about their rumored steampunk rpg of which we know almost nothing about and might be 3+ years away. Meanwhile Sony is pumping out AAA exclusives that seems everyone love.
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You know wasteland 3 was released in August 2020. You know the same year ghost of tsushima and the last of us 2 were released. Naughty dog has 2 huge teams and still no new games since then just remasters. We haven't seen ghost of tsushima 2. The outer worlds was released in 2019 6 months after days gone. Where is that next bend game? Hell might as well go after those lazy guys at double fine who released a game in 2021. You know that Sony has had a bunch of huge studios for a decade or more. You just don't buy a sub 100 team AA studio and they instantly pump out AAA games. It took Sony years and years to build where they are now. Now it is going to take Microsoft time to build up after they finally got money in 2018 to invest in studios. Do they have time to build up those AA studios they bought probably not but it doesn't change the facts it is a process that takes time.
 
quest said:
You know wasteland 3 was released in August 2020. You know the same year ghost of tsushima and the last of us 2 were released. Naughty dog has 2 huge teams and still no new games since then just remasters. We haven't seen ghost of tsushima 2. The outer worlds was released in 2019 6 months after days gone. Where is that next bend game? Hell might as well go after those lazy guys at double fine who released a game in 2021. You know that Sony has had a bunch of huge studios for a decade or more. You just don't buy a sub 100 team AA studio and they instantly pump out AAA games. It took Sony years and years to build where they are now. Now it is going to take Microsoft time to build up after they finally got money in 2018 to invest in studios. Do they have time to build up those AA studios they bought probably not but it doesn't change the facts it is a process that takes time.
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I know their reasons but in the end should consumers care? at this point its safe to say we will see most of their games past the halfway point of the generation, and it seems people dont like that. They should have started earlier to think about the need for more exclusive games.

Think about it, we know nothing about Inxile rpg, that could very well be a 2025 game, 4 years into the gen, when generations usually last for 7 years. Sony was able to put a new God of War in 4years since last one, but Hellblade is MIA since that cinematic reveal like 2+ years ago. Respawn made Jedi Survivor in 3.5 years since Fallen Order. MS studios just need to get their shit together and stop wasting years in preproduction dreaming of concepts.

Even when they buy exclusivity from 3rd parties its like...Stalker 2, compared to what, FF 7 remake, FF16, Kotor remake , I mean cmon we talking about a trillion dollar company here.
 
Maybe for people that have been buying every xbox would feel that way. I had my PS5 for 1.5 years and decided to get a XsX after not playing any xbox since 360 and im loving the gamepass route. So many games, i literally dont know how to even catch up, especially since i stopped buying games day one, GP is such a good option for some games that allow it.
 
StereoVsn said:
Oh, have no idea, but the comparison is still apt, lol.

What happened with the strike?
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how streaming is fucking up the traditional business model (tv/film).

It said Netflix is the most aggressive against any negotiations.

one of the points from the writers is not training the A.I. to substitute them; the studios didn't even answer to that petition

the most important thing is about residuals (which are the living blood for a lot of people) streaming doesn't have that.

in terms of Xbox with Game Pass as the Netflix of games. who knows what kind of consequences is going to have for people regarding compensations and bonuses.
 
ChorizoPicozo said:
how streaming is fucking up the traditional business model (tv/film).

It said Netflix is the most aggressive against any negotiations.

one of the points from the writers is not training the A.I. to substitute them; the studios didn't even answer to that petition

the most important thing is about residuals (which are the living blood for a lot of people) streaming doesn't have that.

in terms of Xbox with Game Pass as the Netflix of games. who knows what kind of consequences is going to have for people regarding compensations and bonuses.
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Ahh, that makes total sense and I can see GamePads structure going same route. Plus inevitably content quality will take a hit. "Good enough for Netflix" and "Good enough for GamePass".

But yeah, between these hardball negotiation tactics and AI, content creators will take a hit. One big difference is MS has plenty of other revenue streams, but as seen in recent firings, MS don't care, they would rather dump the money into stock buyback vs their staff.
 
AmuroChan said:
The killer app is Gamepass, not any one game. MS has said publicly they're trying to be Netflix with GP. Most people do not have Netflix for any one show or movie. People have it because it gives them immediately access to a huge catalog of content, even if a vast majority of that content is mediocre to bad.
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Yeah, and that's the problem.

There's a reason I'm not subscribed to Netflix anymore: Because for every quality program they release, there's a half dozen shit ones that don't make it past a single season. Chasing content to maintain subscribers inevitably devolves into quantity over quality.

No one should be cheering for the "Netflix of Games" because we can clearly look at the state of streaming video content to see how this ends up.
 
YuLY said:
Bro you do realize theres like 57 people that played Pentiment right? People are starved for good exclusive blockbusters AAA games, not those niche indie-like games. God of War Ragnarok, Horizon 2, Demon's Souls remake, Final Fantasy 7 remake to give examples from competition, this is what people want, this is what sells hardware and gains new customers in your ecosystem, not Pentiment. When MS finally came with an AAA game it looks and plays like a 2012 game.

They are now relying solely on Starfield being good while Sony already has Spiderman 2 and Final Fantasy 16 for this year. Theres just incompetence at MS and theres no way around it. I'm mainly a PC gamer but prefer xbox over sony anyday btw, in case you think this is coming from a sony fanboy.
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All I'm saying is that acting like the world is coming to an end because one game isn't as good as it should be is the absolutely pinnacle of baby boy basement dwelling gamer rage.

What about forza horizon 5 then?

my point is that there is lots to criticize MS and Phil especially with how they are actively taking gaming in a negative "content driven" direction and consolidating the market by doing so.

But redfall was a multiplatform game to begin with and it probably (haven't played it myself yet) sucks as much as your average gaas title... it was always going to suck. Everyone acting so childish about this game is just what makes me laugh about gaming in general.

No one has a chip on their shoulder quite like a #gamer. And it's getting worse and worse and worse as time goes on.
 
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I bought a Series X to go alongside my PS5, wish I hadn't wasted the money.

All I've played is Halo MCC, Sea Of Thieves, old gears games and that's probably about it, there's nothing that really grabs your attention on the xbox brand right now. Halo was a shit show, Hi-Fi rush (imo) was shite, Redfall has always looked god awful.

I dunno what they're doing over there, but I've said this a few times now, the management needs to be kicked out and they need to find their own Shawn Layden to right the ship. Cause Phil Spencer and co ain't done shit all but waste money.
 
quest said:
You know wasteland 3 was released in August 2020. You know the same year ghost of tsushima and the last of us 2 were released. Naughty dog has 2 huge teams and still no new games since then just remasters. We haven't seen ghost of tsushima 2. The outer worlds was released in 2019 6 months after days gone. Where is that next bend game? Hell might as well go after those lazy guys at double fine who released a game in 2021. You know that Sony has had a bunch of huge studios for a decade or more. You just don't buy a sub 100 team AA studio and they instantly pump out AAA games. It took Sony years and years to build where they are now. Now it is going to take Microsoft time to build up after they finally got money in 2018 to invest in studios. Do they have time to build up those AA studios they bought probably not but it doesn't change the facts it is a process that takes time.
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InXile doesn't make AAA games and people who think it's as easy "here's the money" still don't understand much about the industry.

Temper expectations for their next game.
 
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Cull all of the next year yes men and start fresh with new blood who actually give a shit. Theyve given Spencer and friends a decade and its clearly not working. The pieces are there , the management is not
 
K' Dash said:
I'll laugh when Sony is the only one in the market, charging whatever the fuck they want for their HW, then see everyone complain about it.
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I don't think any sane people want that, the problem is, Microsoft can't expect us to buy their console just to keep Sony from pushing them out of the market, they have the resources to do better, a powerful machine, a lot of studios and IP's under their umbrella.
It will piss off a lot of people, but hear me out.

Have selective projects with major investment and talent and give the game a 1-year window to sell normally, you can give 30~40% OFF to game pass members.(the ones who subscribed for at least 6 months straight). That way to can pay for the game development and have a healthy profit, also, for the game to compete in an open market already put some pressure for it to be good.

Stop the madness, try to be lucrative now, stop bleeding money to gain market share because that isn't working. Money can be a powerful tool to establish what works and what not, how can you even begin to measure your output appeal throwing everything on Gamepass, let us vote with our wallets.
With all that big talk, the actions of Microsoft indicate a lack of confidence in their product, that is evident when you see how the company keep changing the goalpost to fit some narrative.

Sony market share was earned in the same vain as steam did it in the PC space, sheer competence and understanding of the market. Microsoft wants to take shortcuts left and right, outspending their competition, and that would absolutely kill the competition IF Microsoft did the basics right. Think about what Microsoft offers this generation. Game pass, a powerful console, Cloud Gaming, retrocompatibily across all their generations, why they are losing?

I want competition in the market like everyone else. I'm just not willing to reward Microsoft behavior with my hard-earned money until they put their shit together.
 
Thirty7ven said:
InXile doesn't make AAA games and people who think it's as easy "here's the money" still don't understand much about the industry.

Temper expectations for their next game.
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Very true. People should really look at each team where they're at, and think of their next project relative to what they've done. I'll never forget reading an Iwata Asks on Alpha Dream on the Mario + Luigi series. They didn't have anyone on the team who knew anything about 3D modeling at all, only sprite work. They had to really branch out just to put in like 1 3D model of the giant Mario. Or look at a small team like Grezzo slowly moving from remake to remake to HD title. They take small steps.
 
Jerm411 said:
The stories I could tell about that Discord lol…

When I infiltrated it, it was completely filled with all the characters you see on social media constantly affiliated either officially or not with XBox.

It was a concerted effort from top to bottom…there's a reason I talked about Phil Spencer weaponizing console wars in another thread. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...
Any particulars about Alex' time there?
 
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