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Ms. Marvel I OT I How does it feel? Cosmic!
- Thread starter DeafTourette
- Start date
- |OT| Opinion
Bulletbrain
Member
Surprised that out of the two D+ episodes released yesterday (other being Obi wan) this was far away the more enjoyable one. Extremely stylish in its visuals and cinematography, Iman is very likeable and does a great job, and had an excellent pacing and energy to it. Reminds me of a live-action into the spiderverse in terms of production. Hope it can retain its strengths to conclusion and avoid the so far typical Marvel D+ underwhelming endings.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
6.4/10 is very bad for a TV show.Poor reviews? What world do you live in?
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
And MCU fanatics don’t exist?
sol_bad
Member
And Rottentomatoes and Letterboxd? I'm sure IMDB will even out at a higher number. Either way 6.4 is not a bad number, it's not a 4 or a 5.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
And DC/Snyder Fanatics don't exist?
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
- I love the cinematography. The camera work, use of subtle animations, all of the pastel colors and effective use of neon, vivid and a joy to look at
- The score may be the most original and suitable of any of the Marvel television shows so far. The music suits the vibe of each scene so well
- It's most definitely aimed at teens, but should still appeal to adults. It's completely inoffensive in every way
- All of the actors were great, no complaints on casting
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I seriously question anyone's taste in shows if they say this is bad or even just mediocre. I doubt it will light the critical world on fire but it's clearly a good, well acted, and well crafted show.
They're not promoting a religion. Many characters just happen to be Muslim. And what religious focus group? I didn't see anyone making these clearly bigoted criticisms about Captain America's classic US brand of Christianity, Daredevil's Catholicism, or Shang-Chi's Buddhist overtures. Jesus I can't believe I just read that comment and I'm not on 4chan or reading the feed of some Russian Twitter bot.
- The score may be the most original and suitable of any of the Marvel television shows so far. The music suits the vibe of each scene so well
- It's most definitely aimed at teens, but should still appeal to adults. It's completely inoffensive in every way
- All of the actors were great, no complaints on casting
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I seriously question anyone's taste in shows if they say this is bad or even just mediocre. I doubt it will light the critical world on fire but it's clearly a good, well acted, and well crafted show.
They're not promoting a religion. Many characters just happen to be Muslim. And what religious focus group? I didn't see anyone making these clearly bigoted criticisms about Captain America's classic US brand of Christianity, Daredevil's Catholicism, or Shang-Chi's Buddhist overtures. Jesus I can't believe I just read that comment and I'm not on 4chan or reading the feed of some Russian Twitter bot.
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strange headache
Banned
Even the poster is full of hijabis.
Christian fundamentalism is just as bad, but contrary to Islam mainstream Catholicism has undergone reform, became much more moderate and does not outright contradict modern western values. No other religion is creating more war, oppression and human suffering in the world than Islam. It is a vicious belief system that stubbornly refuses modernization and integration with other cultures and should absolutely not be repackaged as an entertainment product aimed at kids.
This absolute dreck is the equivalent to those NES bible games.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yea, some Muslim women wear hijab.
The second paragraph I won't even bother to entertain. Respectfully.
And I have to disagree with the NES Bible games assertion. I don't think they even once mentioned anything specific about Islam here, and the show certainly was not about religion. The closest they came was calling something halal or haram. You know, about the same surface-level exploration of religion as Matt Murdock attending confession.
I think you're seeing things that aren't there.
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Ulysses 31
Member
It's not that it refuses it really, it's that it's written to be the perfect word of God and that no alteration is allowed(Bid'ah).
Also an issue is that the Quran is written in a prescriptive way with it's rules applicable and valid for all eternity and can't really be re-contextualized like in Christianity as stories/products of their time.
strange headache
Banned
The show is heavily promoted on the protagonist being a believer, heck even the advertising poster is full of Islamic symbolry.
Marvel campaigning for women's rights and equality, while marketing a belief system that is fundamentally opposed to that, is an outright farce!
Ulysses 31
Member
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Still... Looks cute.
ManaByte
Member
Fingers crossed someone shows up at the end and causes YouTube to explode in manchild rage.
strange headache
Banned
Ah yes, I'm sure the most unpopular and unlikeable superhero actress this side of Amber Heard will save it.
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
I entered this thread expecting to see discussions about heroes who wear spandex, not religion.
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Bulletbrain
Member
I'm 80% sure that person will indeed show up, and yes many many YouTube rage tears will be shed.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Would you believe it's her first acting gig? AND she's a lifelong comic book geek?
I collect VHS tapes
Member
the movie poster makes it look like a CW show
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
My show rating so far? Really good intro to the character, seems like a charming series.
Cosmico
Cosmico
Amiga
Member
Not our place to hate. just explain whenever you can.
blasphemy is human made concept, created by zealots to dominate others. not supposed to part of man to man discourse.
Religions can be different but God is one and consistent. whatever things man ascribes. the difference is whether man knows God as he revealed himself.
Religion became split because most people want to differentiate themselves, out of ego and hubris man constantly injected his opinions into matters of divine revelation, over many generations this caused obfuscation of the original way.
That's not what we believe. That's what you believe about us.
Yes Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. It's man's nature for ambition and arrogance that make him refuse restraint and seek conflict. If mankind was inclined to persist on Gods way the whole world would be in peace and prosperity with no ill towards each other.
Regarding LGBTQ+, the sentiment is based on the story of Lot, it is a consistent between Judaism+Christianity+Islam, so whatever you say applies to all.
Plenty of Marvel and DC lore is based on the Jewish creators culture. Jack Kirby at least was more pronounced in this. The 4th World is basically the story of Moses as a space opera.
Ulysses 31
Member
I don't disagree but Islam is written in prescriptive way that makes it easier for zealots to use it to control other believers.
What God is depends on who you ask, if people make incompatible claims about God then they can't all be true and it can't be the same God for everyone. Unless you know which religion is the correct one...
Nope, Islam is written in a prescriptive and timeless way with rules for how to treat non believers (like 2nd class citizens) in an Islamic society and how to fight(strike their necks and inflict great slaughter) against non-believers( and only do defensive wars till a Caliphate is established). The other religions have the luxury of having enough wiggle room for reformation and recontextualization as stories and morals from their times.
And surely the punishment in Islam for apostasy alone isn't tolerant by any stretch.
Edit: I don't think Islam is a purely a religion of war either but I find it difficult to call it a religion of peace.
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Doom85
Member
Geezus fucking Christ people, this is a topic about Ms. Marvel. Yes, she’s Muslim, but does that justify focusing so much of the thread to the history of the religion, comparing it to other religions, and throwing in the kitchen sink while we’re at it?! You do realize there’s a superhero element to all of this, right?
I mean, for fucks’ sake, I remember forums being able to discuss a Sayid-focused episode of LOST just fine without derailing into back and forths on his religion. And that was in the 2000’s where I feel discrimination against Muslims was higher due to people using 9-11 as an excuse to “justify” it. So it is just baffling that this shit has to be brought up so much now. If someone doesn’t like the Muslim religion to any degree, then you can just not watch the show and also not comment on it regarding your opinion on the religion. Yes, before you bring it up, you have a right to your opinion, but you know for a damn fact all you’re doing is bugging people who are enjoying the show. Choosing when NOT to speak up is an important skill too. And if two posters are just determined to have it out regarding the topic of religion, well might I suggest moving it to private messages so everyone else can resume discussing the actual episodes?
Like, come on, it’s the weekend. Let’s just chill. If you can’t watch a show due to your own opinions on something, then just watch a different show. We are spoiled for choice these days so going on and on about who a fictional teenage girl prays to instead of watching something else that could be potentially awesome is just ridiculous.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Geezus fucking Christ people, this is a topic about Ms. Marvel. Yes, she’s Muslim, but does that justify focusing so much of the thread to the history of the religion, comparing it to other religions, and throwing in the kitchen sink while we’re at it?! You do realize there’s a superhero element to all of this, right?
I mean, for fucks’ sake, I remember forums being able to discuss a Sayid-focused episode of LOST just fine without derailing into back and forths on his religion. And that was in the 2000’s where I feel discrimination against Muslims was higher due to people using 9-11 as an excuse to “justify” it. So it is just baffling that this shit has to be brought up so much now. If someone doesn’t like the Muslim religion to any degree, then you can just not watch the show and also not comment on it regarding your opinion on the religion. Yes, before you bring it up, you have a right to your opinion, but you know for a damn fact all you’re doing is bugging people who are enjoying the show. Choosing when NOT to speak up is an important skill too. And if two posters are just determined to have it out regarding the topic of religion, well might I suggest moving it to private messages so everyone else can resume discussing the actual episodes?
Like, come on, it’s the weekend. Let’s just chill. If you can’t watch a show due to your own opinions on something, then just watch a different show. We are spoiled for choice these days so going on and on about who a fictional teenage girl prays to instead of watching something else that could be potentially awesome is just ridiculous.
strange headache
Banned
That's the crap you write when your brain is on religion.
Let's stick to Marvel promoting a belief system rooted in devout sexism, outdated gender roles, the dismissal of universalistic human rights and traditions that are diametrically opposed to modern democratic values.
Repackaging a harmful religious worldview as hip and trendy teenage entertainment is not something to be "chill" about.
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Amiga
Member
Islam specifically warns about zealots and signals them out as the worst evil that lead to other evils. Those swayed by it are ignorant of their own religion and manipulated by cultists. the cultists methodically isolate communities and sever them from the mainstream. and target the young and angry who are venerable to indoctrination. An organization like the Brotherhood is outlawed in the Arab world for their Zealotry and hide and organize in western countries. so this is on you.
God doesn't depend on anyone. there is one truth to him. man can realize it or not. The disputes of the mind can be many, but man's desire to seek God is one. So even if the mind get's confused the will from heart towards God is one. In Islam the heart is what ultimately matters, the importance of the knowledge comes in keeping the heart on the right track. people can lack the knowledge but be blessed by God into keeping a heart that naturally follows the correct path no matter what label of religion they have.
If this was true 95% of the people I know would have been dead, including me on several occasions. if you said these are done by Takfiri cults I would agree. but they are outlawed in all the Muslim countries and hunted down.
The Muslim world is made up of thousands of ethnicities, hundreds of languages, dozens of sects and countries. and it wasn't united since 14 centuries. the Caliphate is more of bogyman to westerners than a dream for Muslims. and the Ottoman Caliphate killed half the Muslim population and millions in the Levant fled from it. So not exactly found memories remain from the last time.
You said Islam doesn't reform, but this is one of the many things that are not applied in any Muslim country today. A lot of the propaganda against Islam is similar stuff that is only found in lawless pockets in places like Somalia/Taliban.
It wasn't about 1st or 2nd. Laws govern Public duty/marriage/inheritance/property Christians and Jews were exempt from Islamic law and had their own laws in their own communities. The Muslims get drafted and pay a the religious Zakat tax. The non Muslims had sperate "secular" tax system, that was the idea behind it.
And north Arabia there is a Christian Arab tribe to this day that are got named "The Honored" for aiding the Muslims against the Roman Empire and didn't pay Jizyah because they were considered participants with Muslims. so the opposite of "2nd class".
Amiga
Member
I think it's good thing that the show brings out feelings so we can discuses them. People should at least know what we Muslims actually think and believe, not have a false construct about us that is used to legitimize prejudices.
strange headache
Banned
So far you're only making things worse with your inane devout rambling.
Ulysses 31
Member
Depends if you see fundamentalists as zealots. Fundamentalists do push hard for adherence to Islamic rules in my view.
You're working from the assumption there is a God. I'm working from someone not knowing if there is one and being told different things by different religions.
As an atheist I'm not in favor of any religion.
It's an issue of how serious the rules are followed or how true a believer you are if you only follow select rules.
Muslims can be moderate, Islam is not when followed to the letter.
I'm talking about Islam, not Muslims. People like to conflate them and try to paint critics as overgeneralizing.
Muslims are people and people can be moderate to extreme or even just nominal. People are judged on their actions and as individuals. So just being a Muslim is not a bad thing in my book.
Glad so see you're not a fan of Caliphates either.
There is a line that God had perfect the religion so that makes official reformation quite difficult if you don't want to come across as knowing better then God.
Not sure what the rest has to do with the dhimmi system I was alluding to.
So? All the other people who had/have to pay the Jizya were/are 2nd class.
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Amiga
Member
Not aiming to change anybody's mind. just showing that the source of their prejudice is ignorance or themselves.
And can you tell me what part made you think worse of me? seriously willing to evolve and change if you have a point.
Amiga
Member
Islam says life and heart and mind are difficult to manage, it's normal and expected to fail and fail often, what we can do is not surrender keep trying, it is part of the souls growth and the main reason of the mortal world. zealots dismiss this fundamental journey and presume themselves worthy to judge others faith. that is why they are seen as the worst evil.
Not even the Prophet applied it to the letter. He advised to favor doubt to avoid capital punishment. the burden of proof for capital crimes is extremely difficult. What has been actually practiced in law was call "ta'zeer", it's based on the Judges opinion, and that opinion can evolve with the times. that is why you don't see old punishments carried out in this age.
What Islam? Sunni, Sufi, Shia, Zydi, Alawi, Deobondi, Tigani, Ismaili, Hanbali, Maliki, Hanafi, A'shari, Mu'tazili..?
There is a lot off deferring to human judgment calls in Islam. plenty of room for secular laws on the basis of "greater good" and to "preserve peace" and "mutual treatment". like I mentioned, A lot of the old laws are not applied in any Muslim country today, even the non-secular ones.
That there was an "opt out" option.
there was no "class". there was reputation based what is actually done. That tribe stuck their necks out in front of the Romans and got honored and remembered for it until today and they are still Christian. Muslims who sit on their ass are obscured until today. so this is a merit system.
The Ottomans had Christen lords in their army that they used against Muslims, who is 1st and 2nd class?
Ulysses 31
Member
All fine and dandy, still doesn't change all the rules for warfare against non-believers that's present in the Quran which is one of my main issue with Islam.
I'm pretty sure in some parts of the world stoning and chopping off hands is still being practiced. But if we keep it to western countries then yes Muslims are mostly moderate in the application of Islamic teachings.
Usually the biggest like Sunni ones.
So? The best thing now is to hope those rules won't ever be taken too literally by whoever gets in power. We see what Islam at the state level can be like in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and I hope it won't ever come that in the west.
Islam is still making it hard on itself for official reformation.
That sounds more like an exemption after you've serviced Islam rather than an opt out.
Still changes nothing for those we didn't/couldn't.
Whatever class/rank those were, it was above dhimmis. I use 2nd class in a colloquial way here.
Amiga
Member
Rules like "don't transgress", "commit to treaties", "accept peace" "be kind and fair to those who don't fight you" are bad?
Can you mention examples out of the 50 Muslim countries where they are applied. otherwise "pretty sure" is a symptom of false indoctrination by hate media.
point was there is no center or structure. Sunni is just a roundup of all non-Shia sects that news anchors and analysts use streamline their propaganda.
What exactly do you want? nothing you go around about is actually practiced today, not dhimmis, not hand chopping, not stoning. Our leaders and your leaders already have conversations and they work together at the UN and many international institutions. Millions of westerners visit Muslim countries, live and work there, including Saudi Arabia. Countries like Taliban Afghanistan are isolated by the Muslim world for what they practice.
Ulysses 31
Member
Come on, I'm sure you're aware that a lot of the Medina verses deal with fighting non believers. The prophet was a warlord by then after all. 9:5 is probably the most know one and 9:29.
You'll probably say that those were verses revealed in times of war and only apply in those situations, that's not clear from the Quran itself. If you need another (6?) books (Hadiths) to explain the main one then that's a failing IMO.
In Saudi Arabia
In Iran
From wiki:
In Afghanistan
In Pakistan
Still, none of the sects are fine with apostacy, some give you a chance to come return to Islam but ultimately you should be punished if you leave Islam. You cannot leave it in good faith.
Whether someone feels strong enough about it to carry out the punishment is a different matter.
I don't wanna see Islam(or any religion for that matter) to get big enough to dictate the law of the land so one.
But this threat is not really the place to hash out my issues with Islam.
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Amiga
Member
You are explaining my religion as you want to perceive it, not as I believe it. you are taking the the dogma of a radical cult and painting it on the majority of practicing Muslims. A cult that is outlawed and perused in Muslim countries with casualties amongst law enforcement in the process.
I don't believe in what you claim nor any part of society I know. You need to revise your knowledge. Go to an Islamic center and debate them if you are serious about your position.
Not one case here where it was applied. There is no written penal code in these countries so Islamophobic propagandists take centuries old rulings and claim they are currently practiced while they are not.
Would you kindly confirm in this forum that you couldn't find an actual case that was applied by official law.
Just do what Hungry, Poland and Japan do. you can preserve your culture without creating enemies and letting the fear become an end in itself. If Israel can tone it down and try to build bridges in it's neighborhood you can too.
Ulysses 31
Member
I'm explaining why I don't look favorable on Islam. Again you're trying to play the victim of generalization when I've already said I'm talking about Islam and not Muslims.
They can explain the verses in the most charitable ways, doesn't change the fact they're written in ways that can easily justify violence.
I never said it was state actors doing it mainly that it's still happening in Muslim majority countries like the ones I listed. Wiki says that it's still a valid punishment under Sharia in Iran and no longer prescribed under the penal code. So the state did hand out stoning sentences for a long while there.
Saudi Arabia still has stoning for adultery (unless you have an article stating they don't anymore)
Not sure what you're implying here.
I'm respectful to anyone who's respectful to me, no matter what they believe. And even if they aren't, I don't let that get under my skin.
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Amiga
Member
I'm not your victim.
Anything can be cut and altered to change the meaning. If you quote "give me death" without the 1st part "give me liberty" then it would sound horrifying.
Saudi Arabia doesn't have a penal code. and I can tell you the punishments you claimed are not applied in Saudi. so we are down to zero countries applying the the things you claim.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
My first OT thread and folks want argue about her religion. This NEVER comes up with Christianity and Judaism. Or Sikhism or Hinduism or...
You get what I'm saying?
You get what I'm saying?
nush
Member
or Doctor Strange?
Ulysses 31
Member
Good, because that would be stilly when I'm talking about Islam and not about people.
You don't even have to alter the verses to get that effect IMO. And until they're reworded it will stay that way unfortunately.
I never spoke of a penal code when I made the initial claim about stoning or amputations happening.
You sure there's been 0 stoning or amputations in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Afghanistan?
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Amiga
Member
the alternate version is the one spammed in Islamophobic propaganda, Institutions like The Azhar and Muslim World League have debunked them. and even explained exactly how the cultists spun the meaning, and the point of history this started. check their extensive work to balance your perspective.
They are not happening.
The law in Saudi and Pakistan doesn't. people who try to take the law in their own hands in Saudi are prosecuted, and defemination laws are stronger and easier to prove so people don't go around accusing others in the 1st place.
The recognized government of Afghanistan didn't do it, but then the Taliban took over, they are not recognized by Muslim nations until they adopt the commitments of the previous government.