MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

It's not that surprising to hear crazy marketing hyperbole from a company, but for Microsoft to run their mouths about this fantasy scenario when they have shown zero indication of it actually working is just bananas.
 
Monas said:
Maybe the CLOUD will be utilised to render realistic clouds?
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Ironically, I think that really IS the only way you're going to get 40x the performance. Lock the camera, render foreground, immediate gameplay graphics, then the distant skybox you'll never interact with stream in footage of the sky being rendered super realistically and beyond what your system could do alone.

But you could probably just record some damn clouds and run an FMV instead, and you won't have glitches when the connection's interrupted.
 
Eusis said:
I'm not too confident something like Onlive can really take off (I'm pretty sure Onlive itself IS doomed due to a stubborn, impractical setup, though I guess someone could gut it as-is and rebuild into something relatively sane), but the reasons for that are different for why this cloud co-computing wouldn't. Well, maybe not too different, it's ultimately about latency, but for streaming video it's just a matter of input lag and being able to cover server/bandwidth costs, whereas here it's literally impossible outside of specific situations. I'm guessing you might get something very intriguing doing it with Elder Scrolls and a fully dynamic world so while you're in a dungeon bandits raid a town or something, and so you see the aftermath when you go back, but nothing relevant for more linear games or actually making graphics better.
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Whether it will take off or not is up in the air, but it will do what it's advertised to do. The cloud on the other hand will most certainly not make the Xbox One 40x more powerful. Granted the idea is awesome but I just cant see it actually working. Maybe there is something they aren't telling is that is the key component but if there was, why wouldn't they say anything? I thought the point of there conference was to get all the technical things out of the way and leave the games to E3.
 
chubigans said:
Thank you GifCam.

PXaJnSs.gif
Click to expand...

OMG hahahaha.
 
Gotta say, Gaikai doing old gen stuff is going to be tricky enough, but this notion that Microsoft is going to offer partial 3 Tfops of computational power to millions upon millions gamers is just absurd. Maybe several years from now we might inch closer mind, just as much because of cost issues as technical.
 
nib95 said:
Gotta say, Gaikai doing old gen stuff is going to be tricky enough, but this notion that Microsoft is going to offer partial 3 Tfops of computational power to millions upon millions gamers is just absurd. Maybe several years from now we might inch closer mind, just as much because of cost issues as technical.
Click to expand...

Where's the 3tf number coming from?
 
DrWong said:
So Microsoft can only split partially the processing tasks to the "cloud" when Onlive or Gaikai split ALL the processing tasks to the "cloud"?

Which is the more powerful cloud here?
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One gives each user the performance of a current-gen console or below.

One (allegedly) gives each user 40x the performance of a current-gen console.

Which sounds more realistic to you?
 
DopeyFish said:
Because its really fucking hard to elaborate when I'm working

I'd have to go into very fine detail over specific things

I'm telling you that's what can be done and that's really good enough.

I'm not sitting here saying sensational horseshit like "omg it will allow you to render at 60 FPS with 64xAA with 10x the texture resolution and 30x the polygonal budget"

No.

There is finite limits in which to work with (because of latency and bandwidth), that's why it will be based around "experience" ie it won't really make the game you're looking at much better.

Things that are done in cloud and locally alternate. So when you take an action against an AI opponent or they are within "range" to do the same, local system takes over. When I say structural physics, I mean if it is something you can't directly interact with. When I say weather, I am talking about charting where it's raining, wind currents (which the rendering engine can work off). Right now it's uni directional and like a light switch.

When I'm talking physics of everything, imagine you looking down from a tall building at all the cars moving around, the physics of the cars just driving around are a resource waste, the AI that is controlling the cars are a resource waste.

You shoot one of those cars, local system takes over for physics as its latency sensitive, AI may be shifted locally, animations? Moved from cloud and done locally

Thing is, a lot of pieces in the game environment are not latency sensitive, you wouldn't notice if they were done locally or remotely

But when you interact, local system takes over. When you leave the area or are not directly interacting with these objects, they are then shifted to the cloud.

It's not rocket science.
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Yes, because I'm sure it will be so simple to code for games to instantaneously switch between AI from the cloud to local and back again without causing more headaches than it's worth or any lag in that interaction. That sounds like Sony giving devs Cell and saying "this is super powerful, now... go!". We all know how that worked out.
 
Amir0x said:
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!
Click to expand...
wow, what a brutal response. Gaming journalism is such a joke
 
i-Lo said:
Guys serious question:

Could the cloud work in a way where the system pings the cloud to download AI routines (almost like on demand DLC) to be fed directly for processing and then rendering on screen in a matter of few tens of milli-seconds?
Click to expand...

It could, but let's put it this way you're just adding pure overhead to the equation in doing so:

Internet Server > HDD > Ram > Cache > apu (inside the CPU not the whole thing).

and each step has it's own latencies to deal with, though they decrease each time (Cache To apu is in the matter of pico (10^-12) to nano (10^-9) seconds for example, depending on architecture)

AKA not useful for anything besides small scripts of ai commands or what have you.
 
Amir0x said:
Sorry, just got home from work. Now I feel like my post would have been even more appropriate in your topic. I'm just a little annoyed at how many people are taking what amounts to the biggest attack on consumer rights since this industry has begun lying down. And even more annoyed that so, so many major game websites are just regurgitating PR releases peppered with effusive nonsense about the Xbox One in order to convince people that there ain't nobody behind the fucking curtain. It's embarrassing.
Click to expand...

If there's one thing these last few years have taught us is that no amount of horrible journalism can cover up BS. Microsoft is not going to get away with this latest PR stunt, and everyone will look bad in the end.

I couldn't even imagine them fucking up this badly just six months ago.
 
rohlfinator said:
One gives each user the performance of a current-gen console or below.

One (allegedly) gives each user 40x the performance of a current-gen console.

Which sounds more realistic to you?
Click to expand...

40x the performance is on par with the 40 improvements of the Xbone pad. It all makes sense.


:P
 
rockx4 said:
Does this mean if you play games offline your games will look like shit at 10fps?
Click to expand...

It means they won't run at all.
Developers that use 'the cloud' aren't going to make two versions to cater for those without a constant internet connection, they'll make the one version and it'll be internet only.
 
nib95 said:
Gotta say, Gaikai doing old gen stuff is going to be tricky enough, but this notion that Microsoft is going to offer partial 3 Tfops of computational power to millions upon millions gamers is just absurd. Maybe several years from now we might inch closer mind, just as much because of cost issues as technical.
Click to expand...

Cost issues? Azure is cheap, and the whole point is that it's on demand. Game developers don't need to pay for more than what the users are using. Also, the technical issues such as connection requirements and the like are gone already due to all of the other nasty policies that Microsoft is implementing. Cloud computing will happen. Probably MS will have an exclusive or two that makes use of this.

BlazingDarkness said:
It means they won't run at all.
Developers that use 'the cloud' aren't going to make two versions to cater for those without a constant internet connection, they'll make the one version and it'll be internet only.
Click to expand...


Not really you can have a fallback. Imagine a game like the next Elder Scroll's in which the radiant AI for NPCs not on screen is running on the cloud. If you don't use the cloud, you would have see a loading screen every time you enter a town to give the machine time to process al of these calculations.
 
Durante said:
Well, first of all, cloud streaming of games sucks compared to local play. It sucks in terms of latency, image quality, customization and consumer control.

However, even beyond that, it is actually more technically feasible to render a game entirely "on the cloud" and stream an image than it is to somehow distribute 75% of the CPU/GPU calculations "to the cloud" and do the final 25% on a local system. That is simply hogwash.
Click to expand...

So you don't think this could be as good or better than your average console game soon enough, as long as you have a good connection?
 
The disclaimer on the box is going to be awesome "Requires a constant internet connection or your console will run like a piece of crap."
 
Seeing as even singleplayer will supposedly use "the cloud". Doesn't this then confirm that every MP game will be on dedicated servers? Xbox One might be nice purely as MP box.
 
Notrollious said:
It can. It would actually be better on the PS4 because of how low the latency of the gddr5 is.
Click to expand...

Well, actually gddr5 ram is higher latency than gddr3 but this really has nothing to do with cloud latency which is so up and beyond any internal latencies that it is pretty silly.
 
fallagin said:
Well, actually gddr5 ram is higher latency than gddr3 but this really has nothing to do with cloud latency which is so up and beyond any internal latencies that it is pretty silly.
Click to expand...
This is only true on a cycle count basis, and a wash on actual time unit measurement (ns) basis.
 
fallagin said:
Well, actually gddr5 ram is higher latency than gddr3 but this really has nothing to do with cloud latency which is so up and beyond any internal latencies that it is pretty silly.
Click to expand...

Well yeah I was meaning the data transfer should be faster gddr5 vs ddr3 after the internet latency, which of course is several orders of magnitude greater than anything else.

coldfoot said:
This is only true on a cycle count basis, and a wash on actual time unit measurement (ns) basis.
Click to expand...

.
 
The only things I see is viable for "cloud" computing are typically background stuff or "asynchronous" operations.

1. In a open world game, the sections the player is not currently inhabiting could live on and create dynamic situations (town built/destroyed, npc fighting, alliances being created, persecutors catching up to you, etc).

2. Connectivity with other players, trade, chat, etc.

3. Pre-loading/Streaming next level (no load times). Also possible to "prepare" complex random generated worlds, etc.

4. Have assets in the "cloud" (textures, voicesover, advanced AI)

5. Some other stuff I haven't thought of.

How well this is implemented and how much this will benefit the end result is a different matter. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I am guessing a wast minority will use it to actually improve the performance or scope of games.
 
godhandiscen said:
Not really you can have a fallback. Imagine a game like the next Elder Scroll's in which the radiant AI for NPCs not on screen is running on the cloud. If you don't use the cloud, you would have see a loading screen every time you enter a town to give the machine time to process al of these calculations.
Click to expand...

So you're going to devote cloud resources to process a bunch of stuff the player doesn't even see 99% of the time, for the sake of getting rid of a small loading screen? I mean, it's a cool idea, but how is that remotely cost effective?
 
Amir0x said:
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!
Click to expand...

Amir0x redeemed.


Journalists are probably too busy scouring the latest releases for a hint of sexism to do any real investigative work.
 
Notrollious said:
It could, but let's put it this way you're just adding pure overhead to the equation in doing so:

Internet Server > HDD > Ram > Cache > apu (inside the CPU not the whole thing).

and each step has it's own latencies to deal with, though they decrease each time (Cache To apu is in the matter of pico (10^-12) to nano (10^-9) seconds for example, depending on architecture)

AKA not useful for anything besides small scripts of ai commands or what have you.
Click to expand...

So, theoretically, in an open world game with lots of NPCs, AI scripts could be downloaded for characters the player is NOT in direct contact with followed by checks (locally) so that the AI doesn't run into obstacles.

In essence, it would save some local processing cycles.
 
Here, let me actually say one useful thing this cloud magic can be used for and I think everyone would agree; Dedicated servers.

Let's have mandatory dedicated servers and be rid of this Client Hosting awfulness -- Then you can 'rent' your own servers in the cloud for games too.

With the billions of servers, I'm sure that would be possible.

i-Lo said:
So, theoretically, in an open world game with lots of NPCs, AI scripts could be downloaded for characters the player is NOT in direct contact with followed by checks (locally) so that the AI doesn't run into obstacles.

In essence, it would save some local processing cycles.
Click to expand...

Except if the player isn't in contact or in any relevant position to something, it's usually not rendered or processed. Why should it be?
 
Slayer-33 said:
Where's the 3tf number coming from?
Click to expand...

I just used the same figure as the another GAF'er posted, but in reality it's actually higher. They say XO is 10x more powerful than 360. XO is 1.2Tflops, /10 makes 120Gflops, so here the 360 is roughly 120Gflops in power. Times that by 40 (the amount they say cloud is more powerful than the 360) and it's 4.8Tflops. No chance in hell they can provide 4.8Tflops of dynamic computational power to millions of users.

To clarify, they are claiming that using the cloud the Xbox One is more powerful than a GeForce Titan, a $1000 GPU lol.
 
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