MS: Xbox One 40x More Powerful Than 360 with the Cloud, Only 10x Without the Cloud

Microsoft really has transformed into 2006 Sony, wow. Now I'm just waiting for the crazy USB ports claim to complete the image.
 
Nothing about this is unique to MS...if Sony wants to do the same they could do it too (provided this was not all B.S). It would have been much better for MS to use these cloud servers like an onLive or Geikei service and just feed to a dumb X1 box with the TV shit they are talking about...this would have worked much better.
 
Karma said:
Gaikai does 100% of the processing on the server? Still don't see how doing some of the processing local is a bad thing. In fact seems that the MS solution would be better.
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You're basically streaming the video from another PC, as far as I understand it, there's no shared processing or anything like that.

It's just sort of strange that a bottleneck in processing power can somehow be solved by putting the other half of the processor a thousand miles away. Clouds gonna cloud I guess
 
rohlfinator said:
So you're going to devote cloud resources to process a bunch of stuff the player doesn't even see 99% of the time, for the sake of getting rid of a small loading screen? I mean, it's a cool idea, but how is that remotely cost effective?
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It's just a hypothesis. I am not a game designer, but I can see game designers making use of it. There is already a game that makes use of the cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7scMHqiEhdw

Galactic Reign uses the cloud to render the battles after every turn.
 
Dragon said:
Why do you think it would be better? Seriously explain why.

Why is doing some of the processing local a bad thing? Imagine how developers felt about the Cell going in. Now multiply this by a billion because of network latency and overall stability issues and you tell me.
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Local would be faster no? If not then MS could do 100% of the processing on the server like Gaikai. Then this could be as good or better than your average console game soon enough, as long as you have a good connection.
 
I'd expect this to simply mean that Live is now a hosted Infrastructure from one of the Cloud providers like Amazon. I will check into it
 
Karma said:
Local would be faster no? If not then MS could do 100% of the processing on the server like Gaikai. Then this could be as good or better than your average console game soon enough, as long as you have a good connection.
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I don't know if you're being purposefully dense or not, but what you describe is not only incredibly naive but batshit insane.
 
spwolf said:
1. Persisten worlds are already being done in MMOs... so yeah of course. But you will have to pay monthly fee to cover those costs, just like with WoW.

2. Chat is already done as such... and saves...

3. Of course you cant have assets in cloud, that makes no sense. They are very big. Thats why you paid for 8 GB of RAM, BD drive, all those CPU/GPU's, to load them locally.

On your end of the game, this is not going to happen... on Azure side, they can make it easier for devs to run servers... maybe they will also mandate it. It will end up being more expensive for devs of course, but could solve issues with servers that people get.

Of course, XO/PS4 being so PC-like, they could use any cloud for that... I am not sure if it makes a lot of sense though, or how are they doing it now (running their own server farms or offloading them to 3rd party).
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With point 3 i was thinking that only the CPU power was offloaded (even I say assets in point 4, was just typing from top of my head). Anyway; I was "brainstorming" about what the cloud "could" be used to increase
the "game experience". A point being it has to be "async" and any action live on screen (sync) benefiting from "cloud" computing is disillusioning. (Was trying to see what "positive" effect the could could have, in comparison to having no cloud)

I do agree (and apparently doing something very wrong), this is mostly smoke and mirrors, and very few if any will use this to increase performance and scope. And the cost issue is also interesting, and will further discourage use of the cloud.
 
I posted this in the other thread but hopefully this gets the concept across. It's bullshit guys, sorry to break it to you.

Here is why:

hit a button and wait for it to travel to destination and travel back to you while a giant server that somehow unlocks synchronized grid computing across millions of individual servers to specifically focus on your game and the recognized input inside of it. Not only that, you need the bandwidth to be greater than PS4's. How good is your internet?.


Super high latency plus unfeasible bandwidth.

Microsoft you are high as fuck
 
Karma said:
Thanks. What part is insane? Please explain.
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Because you think offloading processing of a game to the cloud and NOT knowing when it will actually respond makes things better! Do you really want lag in a single player non online game? Developers having to program with asynchronous responses from the cloud in mind makes things incredibly more complicated, not simpler.
 
Quick question for you Spec/Tech guys/gals out there...

And this is an honest question...

Has the speed/performance (in Tflops) been officially declared by either Sony or Microsoft for their new systems?

For that matter, has Microsoft declared how many CUs are on their GPU...has Sony? And in either case, I am talking about official statement or official documentation?

I see everyone running with the 50% more powerful (or 33% less powerful) numbers...but I am curious as to if these are "best guesses", or based on officially released documentation.
 
Dragon said:
Why do you think it would be better? Seriously explain why.

Why is doing some of the processing local a bad thing? Imagine how developers felt about the Cell going in. Now multiply this by a billion because of network latency and overall stability issues and you tell me.
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It's better because (from what we know) they are only using the cloud to do the stuff that does not require low latency. Things like AI or physics. I imagine most xbox one games will have a very rudimentary AI or physics engine on the disc (that does not take much processing power) and then if the connection is good enough it will stream in the more advanced versions as needed.

The problem with gaikai is you are just interacting with a video stream so any latency ruins the entire experience. It's an all or nothing proposition.
 
Dragon said:
Because you think offloading processing of a game to the cloud and NOT knowing when it will actually respond makes things better! Do you really want lag in a single player non online game? Developers having to program with asynchronous responses from the cloud in mind makes things incredibly more complicated, not simpler.
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Ok. Can they not just do all the processing on the server like Gaikai then?
 
jagowar said:
It's better because (from what we know) they are only using the cloud to do the stuff that does not require low latency. Things like AI or physics. I imagine most xbox one games will have a very rudimentary AI or physics engine on the disc (that does not take much processing power) and then if the connection is good enough it will stream in the more advanced versions as needed.

The problem with gaikai is you are just interacting with a video stream so any latency ruins the entire experience. It's an all or nothing proposition.
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Do you have a link where MS actually says they're only using it for AI or physics?

So what you're saying is people without an internet connection get a gimped version.

I swear the people defending this act like this is something easily implemented and expected.
 
Amir0x said:
Seriously guys, this shit is just shocking. If ever there was a revelation of how incompetent this industry is at the moment, this is it.

Here is a fucking company who actively has announced things that WILL negatively impact every single consumer on the market... and then, in an attempt to muddy the waters, released literally like five or six different versions of the story to try to pretend it wasn't a problem. Oh hey, WE CAN CONFIRM that no used games is false! Wait, I mean *you* won't pay a fee! See, no fee! Don't look behind the curtain, because we're about to tell you that your friends WILL have to pay! Now hold on, what we mean is you just can't lend games without your friend payin' a fee, you can still resell games! Wait a second, we're just discussing POTENTIAL SCENARIOS. Oh wait, think of it like it's a new game... NO FUCKERS, IT'S NOT A GODDAMN NEW GAME. YOU FUCKING DIRTY NO-GOOD ASSHOLES. Goddamn, Microsoft is the worst company ever. Where were the journalists with a list of all the stories being told about this subject, showing them to the latest bullshit artist representing the Xbox One and demanding some honest straight forward answers?

Ok, so what's next? Oh yeah, hey everyone...if you use CLOUD, the Xbox One will get a billion times stronger! A trillion! A zillion! "But wait," anyone with a shred of fucking intelligence responds, "what happens if the internet goes down? What happens if you don't have as faster of a connection? How would such shit get around the endless cloud service bottlenecks? How will it do any fucking thing you assholes say? Can a fucking game journalist do their job?" Find out at eleven o'clock!

No, you won't be able to rent games! Fuck that shit, what a privilege all you potential thieves out there have had for this long! How dare you have such a right, like trying these gargantuan bloated MODERN AAA pieces of garbage out so you don't waste $60 fucking bucks playing the latest 4 hour hallway corridor generation X-Z nonsense title produced almost entirely by eight thousand board rooms across the planet. But hey, it has multiplayer guys! The same fucking multiplayer you've played in Call of Duty twenty eight thousand times, but it's there! VALUE ADDED!

No, you won't be able to fucking use your games beyond 24 hours if you don't have an internet connection, because we believe your lardy, undeveloped asses are so goddamn lazy that you're willing to actively give up ownership privileges just so you can fucking swap games around a little easier! Of course, that's all bullshit, because this is all an elaborate scheme to fuck piracy up some more, even though every fucked up DRM scheme that has been tried this past generation has reamed honest, hard-working and hard-payin' consumers so far up the ass that they have gaping holes larger than what's at the center of the fucking Milky Way Galaxy.

Now there are obviously exceptions. Some game journalists are raging. But this shit is ridiculous. EVERY major website right now should be eviscerating Microsoft. IGN should be fucking vomiting at these decisions every five second around the clock until the system launches. They should be disemboweling these pathetic PR representatives of these hateful corporations, spitting their sludge all over the faces of everyone who ever purchased games from them, denying them even a second to mislead legions of consumers into thinking the system is anything except what it is: the world's biggest fucking cock being whipped out and slapped across your goddamn face!

Oh, what about this shit? Why is your focus during your GAME CONSOLE reveal fuckin' TV? Why have you chosen your philosophy? WHY should gamers take this shit lying down? WHAT BENEFIT DOES IT HAVE TO YOUR CUSTOMERS!? For the love of Christ, someone ask some hard goddamn questions! You are all informed to the tit, please use your knowledge to slash these assholes throats so that all the bullshit will spill out and we'll stop having to swim through torrents of anti-consumer diarrhea!
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I think they are just corrupt.

Just look at that fraud arthur gies - that says everything you need to know about how corruct this indrustry is.
 
vio said:
Our Servers Will Have More Power Than All the Computers in 1999!

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...uters-in-1999-us-really-expert-almost/276131/

Just stop it Microsoft, stahp!
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T0jmRO3.gif
 
I dont get how this will work or even be practical. So they mentioned something about offloading AI to "the cloud"? Say im playing GTA next gen and my internet slows down or hitches, would that mean NPCs or somethi g would freeze or glitch or something?

We will see I guess...
 
Here's the big problem for microsoft now. They need to deliver on the proof for that. So we should expect something that looks at least 4 times better then what the hardware should be capable of.
 
godhandiscen said:
It's just a hypothesis. I am not a game designer, but I can see game designers making use of it. There is already a game that makes use of the cloud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7scMHqiEhdw

Galactic Reign uses the cloud to render the battles after every turn.
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That's pretty clever, actually. But it's also non-interactive, which I don't think is what Microsoft is going for here.

I dunno, I think it's potentially cool technology, but no one can seem to come up with a good use case for it. Even Microsoft is basically saying they have no idea wtf they'll use it for. There would be less ridicule if they introduced this in a technical talk instead of immediately trying to use it as ammo in a console war.
 
I heard MS is *this* close to achieving infinite performance from the wizzard cloud. They're planning to unlock its full potential by ray tracing all the games for the Xbone. It's going to be so amazing.
 
Serious question - who pays for the Cloud? Let's say there's a single player game that makes extensive use of the infinite power of the Cloud - maybe it's simulating every individual in a city of six million, maybe the local console is playing Jenga while the Cloud simulates every atom in every wooden block. Whatever. So. Who pays for the secret sauce? Does Microsoft provide the Cloud out of the benevolence of their hearts? Does the developer pay for whatever slice of the infinite they use? Or is it going to be, you can buy Jenga One for 5.99, and for a five dollar monthly fee, you can play Ultimate Cloud Jenga?
 
godhandiscen said:
Theoretical?
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...79oDlXZBgKheR-FQA&sig2=dQdbJGpp-N9tPoyLT-Sz0g
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Yes.
Small packets of data for mobile systems, sure. That's in practice now, in mostly asynchronous systems.
They are literally claiming a QUADRUPLING of real-time computation per user here.

Also, you linked a feasibility study. It concludes with points of research still necessary to improve application. This paper is also from just last year.
I'm not saying it isn't feasible, I'm just not inclined to believe their statements as of right now, because they're pushing a bunch of hypotheticals as a linchpin of the platform.
Sony haven't promised much beyond using Gaikai as a platform for content delivery and accessibility, which is completely reasonable.
 
So what happens to the games when you are offline. They said it only needs to check in once every 24 hours so I assume you'll be able to play the games offline without the cloud.
Unless games that rely heavily on the cloud will just not work (like Sim City and other online only games)?
 
vio said:
Our Servers Will Have More Power Than All the Computers in 1999!

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...uters-in-1999-us-really-expert-almost/276131/

Just stop it Microsoft, stahp!
Click to expand...
Eh, it sounds plausible when you consider the rate of growth over 14 years and the fact it's STILL a lot of servers being used, I don't think the average home computer even hit 1 GHz yet then, just 600-ish or something. But I would like to see someone's attempted breakdown of this. And at any rate I didn't interpret that as literally computing for our games, but "wow, look how badass our servers are!"

EDIT: For reference, System Requirements of a late, high end 1999 game. Quake 3 Arena to be precise.
 
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