Support NeoGAF

[rofif]

if I as a consumer have no access to MSRP pricing, it should not exist.
It used to be that official retailers/partners like Media Markt for example, always upheld MSRP pricing.
But no MSRP pricing does not exist. Not a single card released this year could be found even existing at MSRP here in Europe.
If consumer have no access to MSRP and not even a chance at access.... what's the point on advertising it?! Should be illegal.

Starting prices (so cheapest prices I personally saw available at for 1 nanosecond for cheapest, loudest ventus pos cards)
5080 - 4k$
5070ti - 950$
9070xt - 900$

I understand economy and demand/supply laws but this is clearly a controlled market.
Promote cards at MSRP. have a fictional model that is at msrp (never to be seen) and sell at crazy prices.
Then big uncle asks Lisa Sue at a dinner table to collaborate on AMD side too and do the same thing. It is all controlled.

Used to be, I was able to buy anything I wanted not only for msrp pricing but promotional pricing. Retailers had to fight over customers.
What happened now? Every single device/component/console released nowadays have to be hunted down for any price you can find it at.
The prices now not only are insane to begin with (msrp) but even that does not exist and everything is more expensive.
Not long ago, when 10XX cards were new, you were able to get them normally. No problem. Then crypto started in the middle of that generation and then covid few years later.

My point being - If customer is not able to EVER find advertised product for msrp pricing... there should be a legal body controlling that. Because they shouldn't get the privilege of advertising price X when in reality price X is not possible and even partners and biggest retailers sell for price X+50%....

 

[jshackles]

Free market is free

 

[Hairsplash]

BUT MSRP stands for manufacturers SUGGESTED retail price…

I see where you are coming from, and I think Nvidia is sleazy with the pricing, because I have never seen an Nvidia price go down unless it’s a new model.
AMD is not afraid to lower prices in the future.

 

[poodaddy]

With ya on this one man. If there's no way to purchase at MSRP, then why's it exist?

 

[rofif]

Free market is free

advertising candy for 1$ outside the shop but inside selling it for 5$ is not free market.
It's false advertising. There are laws for this.
You don't get to enjoy advertising at low prices but selling at completely different prices.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

There are definitely laws against false advertisements, problem is they only apply to the store doing the advertisement, as long as the manufacturer doesn't have its own store to sell it, stores don't have to follow their msrp at all.
now of course big manufacturers can threaten to cut off stores from their products if they try to screws over customers, because it means they are making big profits off the manufacturer too, which they don't like.
But for more specific products, that only a handful of specific stores will sell, the manufacturer can basically do nothing unless they invest in setting up their own stores.

 

[adamsapple]

Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price

Manufacturer's can suggest it, retailer's don't necessarily have an obligation to stick to it.

 

[willothedog]

advertising candy for 1$ outside the shop but inside selling it for 5$ is not free market.
It's false advertising. There are laws for this.
You don't get to enjoy advertising at low prices but selling at completely different prices.

Not false advertising if they did have $1 candy for sale at some point but now sold out with only $5 candy remaining.

 

[rofif]

There are definitely laws against false advertisements, problem is they only apply to the store doing the advertisement, as long as the manufacturer doesn't have it's own store to sell it, stores don't have to follow their msrp at all.
now of course big manufacturers can threaten to cut off stores from their products if they try to screws over customers, because it means they are making big profits off the manufacturer too, which they don't like.
But for more specific products, that only a handful of specific stores will sell, the manufacturer can basically do nothing unless they invest in setting up their own stores.

But there are deals between like Sony and Partners.
They can't sell ps5 for price larger than suggested or they will not be partners... so they got around that with Store bundles. not sony bundles.
Nvidia and AIB partners who are partnered with retailers, could easily have the same deals in place but they do not. Retailers just act like scalpers

If retailer have acces to AIB prices from AIB and NVIDIA but scalp everything...
Then why should I, a normal person not have direct access to AIB and nvidia pricing too? Why do they get all the privilege of buying at msrp and scalping right away without any issues?

Stores are PRIVILAGED to get access to msrp priced products directly from a distributor. I, the customer don't have the same right to buy from distributor.
This puts the stores/retailers in a position of control above customers. At this point... why in the world do stores/retailers exist just to sell someone else products 2x more expensive

 

[Magic Carpet]

MLRP
Manufactured LAW Retail Price?

 

[Horseganador]

It's a deal that PC users have accepted, it's as if after Switch 2 comes out and the following shipments run out, they cost $200-300 more.

 

[Lupin3]

Gamers: "Vote with your wallets!"

Also gamers:

 

[rofif]

Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price

Manufacturer's can suggest it, retailer's don't necessarily have an obligation to stick to it.

I know it's suggested.
Doesn't change a thing.
It's not what it is. You are too easy on these fucking thieves.

Not false advertising if they did have $1 candy for sale at some point but now sold out with only $5 candy remaining.

So make some law. There was not a single 1$ candy. Or there was 1 1$ candy and other 999 candies were 5$.

 

[Loomy]

What are some other products you can't buy at MSRP right now?

 

[dave_d]

(sarcasm on)
Oh awesome. This will probably lead to someone with the suggestion of price controls. It'll totally work this time.
(sarcasm off)

 

[adamsapple]

I know it's suggested.
Doesn't change a thing.
It's not what it is. You are too easy on these fucking thieves.

Oh I display my displeasure by not partaking in this kind of bull shittery at all. Voting with my wallet per-say.

Not to scalpers either.

 

[rofif]

Oh I display my displeasure by not partaking in this kind of bull shittery at all. Voting with my wallet per-say.

Not to scalpers either.

good. Me too.
ps5 base and Pro, both i got for MSRP.
3080fe also.

I am not getting scalped by a fucking media markt of all things on a mid graphics card. it's just frustrating.
One more reason to be done with pc gaming.... at least upgrading it. now with 5700x3d, my pc is still kinda ok if I manage my vram for rare occasional game I paly on pc

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Nvidia and AIB partners who are partnered with retailers, could easily have the same deals in place but they do not. Retailers just act like scalpers

Did you not read my post? All these board partners do not have their own stores, and videocards aren't a product that's carried by many stores like a videogame console, they have literally zero leverage on the stores, so they just ignore the msrp as much as they want.

 

[Xellos]

Don't need a law, just need to wait a few months for the hype to die down and the supply to increase.

 

[rofif]

Did you not read my post? All these board partners do not have their own stores, and videocards aren't a product that's carried by many stores like a videogame console, they have literally zero leverage on the stores, so they just ignore the msrp as much as they want.

video cards are carried by exactly the same stores as consoles.
but yes, I get it. They can do whatever they want. Probably have no deals in place to forbid that like Sony does (at least to an extent)

 

[Warnen]

Just buy a playstaion

 

[T4keD0wN]

I thought FE models directly from Nvidia go for those prices, too bad they dont sell those in europe (i think at least, never seen one).

At this point AIB cards dont deserve to exist, not sure why Nvidia and AMD even bother with them and dont sell only directly.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

video cards are carried by exactly the same stores as consoles.

Are you seriously saying every store that sells videogame consoles are also selling videocards? bruv...
There's a gigantic difference between the amount and types of stores for either product, dunno why you are arguing this.

 

[TexMex]

People can charge whatever they want for their products and you can decide whether or not it’s worth it. Which is exactly how it is and how it should be.

 

[rofif]

Are you seriously saying every store that sells videogame consoles are also selling videocards? bruv...
There's a gigantic difference between the amount and types of stores for either product, dunno why you are arguing this.

yes. that's exactly what I am saying. And this is exactly how it is in Poland.
We have media markt, xkom, komputronik, morele, rtveuroagd and few other big retailers. All sell consoles and graphics cards.
We don't have videogame console stores. what is that

 

[willothedog]

I thought FE models directly from Nvidia go for those prices, too bad they dont sell those in europe (i think at least, never seen one). At this point AIB cards dont deserve to exist.

FE are sold for FE prices in the UK as Nvidia use Scan as a distributor.

 

[BennyBlanco]

advertising candy for 1$ outside the shop but inside selling it for 5$ is not free market.
It's false advertising. There are laws for this.
You don't get to enjoy advertising at low prices but selling at completely different prices.

VW was advertising 1k down/ $149 a month lease on a VW id4 nationally in the US. I called like 10 VW dealers near me to inquire and they’re all like yeah actually you have to put 8k down after taxes and fees to get to $199 a month.

It’s actually insane what you can get away with advertising when you have no plans to follow through.

 

[rofif]

more so.
Sony or Apple wants to get their products in hands of as many customers as possible, so those customers can start spending money on these devices.
That's why I assume they have trade deals with retailers. And even if there are store bundles to get around this, there is still always a bare product available.
Meanwhile a gpu is a gpu. you don't buy shit on it that gets money to AIB or nvidia. So they benefit from selling slowly but for most money possible.

That's why we don't see the same stores scalping consoles or apple products. there are deals to prevent that.

 

[Crayon]

VW was advertising 1k down/ $149 a month lease on a VW id4 nationally in the US. I called like 10 VW dealers near me to inquire and they’re all like yeah actually you have to put 8k down after taxes and fees to get to $199 a month.

It’s actually insane what you can get away with advertising when you have no plans to follow through.

I left a like on your post because you didn't end up with a vw.

 

[rofif]

VW was advertising 1k down/ $149 a month lease on a VW id4 nationally in the US. I called like 10 VW dealers near me to inquire and they’re all like yeah actually you have to put 8k down after taxes and fees to get to $199 a month.

It’s actually insane what you can get away with advertising when you have no plans to follow through.

That's scummy af.
last year I just entered kia dealership and got 5k$ off just for looking at kia niro.
They only sell sportages so when there was someone interested in Niro, they jumped me

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

yes. that's exactly what I am saying. And this is exactly how it is in Poland.

who cares what it's like in poland? I'm talking globally, because these products are sold, get this, globally and there's far more stores that will sell consoles but not video cards

 

[rofif]

who cares what it's like in poland? I'm talking globally, because these products are sold, get this, globally and there's far more stores that will sell consoles but not video cards

are you really accusing me that I don't know of some mysterious console stores in other parts of the world? Like... what?!
dude I can only speak for what I see here where I live. fuck off with this nonsense argument.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I left a like on your post because you didn't end up with a vw.

It was for my wife and she didn’t really want one either but that deal was too crazy. They are butt ugly.

 

[Jigsaah]

Sucks for those who don't live near a Microcenter. A buddy of mine was in the market for a new PC and I told him to buy from Microcenter. He just texted me about an hour ago that he was able to get the 9070xt for MSRP but Microcenter ADMITS that MSRP was just for the first day!!!!

The cards will go up in price starting tomorrow. This is insane!

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

are you really accusing me that I don't know of some mysterious console stores in other parts of the world?

no wonder your reputation here is as shitty as it is.
No I didn't accuse you of anything, I made a post explaining why msrp gets so grossly ignored for these products, and then you decided to argue.

 

[rofif]

no wonder your reputation here is as shitty as it is.
No I didn't accuse you of anything, I made a post explaining why msrp gets so grossly ignored for these products, and then you decided to argue.

And your post made no sense and was not an explanation.
You just bumbled some bs about console stores.... whatever that has to do with anything

 

[ManaByte]

MLRP
Manufactured LAW Retail Price?

Now GAF wants price fixing to be legal.

 

[ReBurn]

Now GAF wants price fixing to be legal.

Only sometimes

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

And your post made no sense and was not an explanation.
You just bumbled some bs about console stores...

I never mentioned console stores, that was you.
I said the disparity is because it's about products where msrp can be enforced because the manufacturer has their own store and also a lot of different types of stores carry the product, so they have leverage, while other products don't have their own store and also a smaller selection of stores carry the product, so they have no leverage.
This is literally what's happening, if this "makes no sense" to you, then we can just move on because there's nothing else to say.

 

[HRK69]

If you listen closely you can hear the world's smallest violin playing the sound of supply and demand

 

[Euler007]

You'd need a functioning government to do that.

 

[Last Hearth]

You are going to outlaw suggestions?

 

[KungFucius]

Gamers: "Vote with your wallets!"

Also gamers:

Voting with one's wallet is a myth. People succumb to the higher prices and buy regardless. Supply is almost always below demand. People also buy products that have what should be free features locked behind premium versions and they also put up with shrinkflation. Basically the consumer has very little real power and companies slowly make everything worse by taking advantage of this fact. Markets are not free, they are highly constrained and there is nowhere near enough competition to have the consumer equipped with any power.

 

[bender]

If manufacturers have an issue with retailers not following MSRP, they can refuse to supply those vendors.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

I know it's suggested.
Doesn't change a thing.
It's not what it is. You are too easy on these fucking thieves.

So make some law. There was not a single 1$ candy. Or there was 1 1$ candy and other 999 candies were 5$.

So you want governmental price controls? Are you you a communist?

 

[Come On Tars]

Yeah price controls totally work

 

[chakadave]

Yeah price controls totally work

This. Price controls are not consumer friendly. You are basically submitting all business decisions to someone else.

 

[Loomy]

Voting with one's wallet is a myth. People succumb to the higher prices and buy regardless. Supply is almost always below demand. People also buy products that have what should be free features locked behind premium versions and they also put up with shrinkflation. Basically the consumer has very little real power and companies slowly make everything worse by taking advantage of this fact. Markets are not free, they are highly constrained and there is nowhere near enough competition to have the consumer equipped with any power.

No it isn’t. If we limit ourselves to gaming only. People are voting with their wallets so hard Fortnite is the biggest thing in all entertainment.

People voted with their wallets so hard Microsoft became a third party publisher and EA sent Veilguard to PS+ less than 6 months after release.

You have a lot of power here. No one on this forum “needs” a 5000 series card. People voted with their wallets when Nvidia pulled the same shit with the 4000 series cards, they’re voting with their wallets now, and the message Nvidia is getting is “do it again in 2 years


Also, do you really want the government controlling prices?

Because America has been conned into believing consumer advocacy and consumer protection is woke, so that’s going away. And Nvidia has more lobbying power than you have purchasing power.

 

[demigod]

VW was advertising 1k down/ $149 a month lease on a VW id4 nationally in the US. I called like 10 VW dealers near me to inquire and they’re all like yeah actually you have to put 8k down after taxes and fees to get to $199 a month.

It’s actually insane what you can get away with advertising when you have no plans to follow through.

They did you a favor.

But isn’t the 8k from the EV lease bonus or EV government incentive?

 

[kevboard]

Free market is free

there is no such thing as a free market.
every market in every capitalist country is regulated. and these regulations exist for good reason.

as paradoxical as it might sound, a truly free market would really quickly result in the least free market possible as monopolies and scams would take any possibility of a free market away from society.

there are already laws for how prices can be advertised in basically all counties. they vary in terms of strictness and details, but they all have it.

having MSRP numbers that do not reflect reality is not only bad for consumers, but also can be used to damage the competition with literal lies.
if AMD for example can just say that their product is 300€ cheaper than the competition, and by doing so gets a ton of coverage by news sites and by word of mouth, but then it turns out that it all was a lie... that's false marketing and unfair competition.

people who would have bought an Nvidia card might now wait until the AMD equivalent releases, which would result in loss of revenue for Nvidia. and if this loss in revenue is a direct result of a lie by AMD, that is unfair competition, and I'm pretty sure is already against the law in many countries, especially in the EU

Unfair competition is conduct by a market participant which gains or seeks to gain an advantage over its rivals through misleading, deceptive, dishonest, fraudulent, coercive or unconscionable conduct in trade or commerce.