Dedication Through Light
Member
WHat, no, we need a bit more.
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My Hero Academia (Shonen Jump) move over pirates, ninjas, reapers, its Hero time
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
WHat, no, we need a bit more.
But it already finished?
I forget where the original article is from, but he says it in this interview from last year.
Dedication Through Light
Member
? How did it finish when the last we saw of him he was considering throwing his UA entrance exam request form away?
lol
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I guess I'm kind of late lol
The day's approaching to give it your best,
and you've got to reach your prime
That's when you need to put yourself to the test,
and show us a passage of time
We're gonna need a montage! (MONTAGE !)
A sports training montage! (MONTAGE !)
Show a lot of things happening at once,
remind everyone of what's going on! (WHAT'S GOING ON!)
And with every shot show a little improvement,
to show it all would take too long!
That's called a montage! (MONTAGE !)
Even Rocky had a montage! (MONTAGE !)
In any sport if you want to go,
from just a beginner to a pro
You need a montage! (MONTAGE !)
A simple little montage! (MONTAGE !)
Always fade out in a montage
If you fade out it seems like more time has a passed in a montage
18. There's no way someone can hate kirishima, even Bakugou.
True, but do you think anyone could actually stop Kirishima from pulling his own load of Bakugo's hatred? Kirishima would feel bad if he was the only one not taking on the burden of Bakugo's hatred, and even Bakugo wouldn't want to see Kirishima sad. So Bakugo would hate Kirishima to make him feel better.
That... actually makes sense.
No wonder the barrier couldn't handle.
Yup. It's not just words either. Crimson Riot might be Kirishima's role model, but it's Ashido who he personally witnessed displaying that attitude, and he's following her example.
It's still eh because it ascribes bravery to be a male trait, even if women can join in on it, but it's more important that we see it in action than anything else.
I think it's more the specific combination of those hot-blooded traits that Crimson Riot and Kirishima's calling "manly", rather than bravery in general. And 'manly' is the usual word used for that (especially in shounen), so it's useful to define it as applicable to anybody, especially for the younger kids reading Jump.
Once he figures out what to do, I doubt that Deku's going to be hotblooded in the way Kirishima is, for example.
Once he figures out what to do, I doubt that Deku's going to be hotblooded in the way Kirishima is, for example.
I know, but it's still assigning male gender to a positive trait, and it's not good. It's really stupid, if anything because traits are abstract concepts, they can't have a gender.
Like I said, good thing they pointed out that it's inclusive to women, it's bad that it's inherently gendered.
The way I see it, "manly" is a word that's actually used, especially in shounen. You can't undo that and stop people using the word, and there's no adequate replacement that people will understand, so the next best thing you can do is to explicitly point both the word and the concept out as being applicable to anybody, when most series wouldn't.
Plus, I have a hunch that'll get some emphasis once we get into Ashido's character arc.
Plus, I have a hunch that'll get some emphasis once we get into Ashido's character arc.
You can, actually.
It just needs more work and effort to make it sound natural since that's currently the language being used to describe it. But the way you change language from working one way to another way is just to use it another way. Fantasy/Sci-fi writers struggle with this at the beginning when they're introducing a new world to the audience, where they need to use their own language in a new but natural way. But the more you read a series, the more you use it, the more it all becomes more natural, even if it sounded bizarre at first.
You want "Fetch" to be a word to describe something as cool and desirable, all you and other people need to do is use "Fetch" that way for a while, and then it's the new and natural word for cool.
It just needs more work and effort to make it sound natural since that's currently the language being used to describe it. But the way you change language from working one way to another way is just to use it another way. Fantasy/Sci-fi writers struggle with this at the beginning when they're introducing a new world to the audience, where they need to use their own language in a new but natural way. But the more you read a series, the more you use it, the more it all becomes more natural, even if it sounded bizarre at first.
You want "Fetch" to be a word to describe something as cool and desirable, all you and other people need to do is use "Fetch" that way for a while, and then it's the new and natural word for cool.
You can, but I feel like that's too narrow. You can't stop other series from using the word, so the concept and word are already tied together, especially in the minds of kids. So why not try to poke the word to be more expansive, since it'd be impractical to immediately replace it? I'unno.
In a broader sense, the idea of removing gender from words entirely is an English specific concept. Gender is heavily built into the Japanese language, so their form of progressivism typically goes for making gender-specific words and constructions become more neutral in connotation, so that (e.g.) young people in Japan are starting to not associate feminine speech with feminine traits. So it makes sense to handle words like 'manly' like that in a Japanese context, imo.
In a broader sense, the idea of removing gender from words entirely is an English specific concept. Gender is heavily built into the Japanese language, so their form of progressivism typically goes for making gender-specific words and constructions become more neutral in connotation, so that (e.g.) young people in Japan are starting to not associate feminine speech with feminine traits. So it makes sense to handle words like 'manly' like that in a Japanese context, imo.
Yeah, I don't know how japanese language works enough to say how Horikoshi should have said it.
I'm just saying that gendered language is itself bad and ought to be avoided. Using it while clarifying it's not gender restrictive is better than nothing, but ideally, it'd be better to avoid all that.
I see where you're coming from and agree, but I think that's a longer-term goal.
It's a lot more impractical in Japanese, for what it's worth. English is fairly atypical for being able to handle gender-neutral language so well; most other languages go for the idea of making meaning gender-neutral, rather than form.
Gendered language is used to define a variety of things depending on the language and how it works. Spanish uses this as well as french and of course japanese. Simply removing that element for the sake of social justice will complicit and make confusion. And I'm glad Horikoshi made a point to include anyone can be "manly". Because hey, some people like being manly or more feminine regardless of who they are.
I hate how social justice is used as a derogatory like there is a situation in which it's not worth persuing. Especially when the very use of it in the manga being inclusive of women is itself social justice and something we've been praising.
As for changing language, of course it's hard. The cultural artifacts we have ingrained into every aspect of our culture because societies have been massively sexist for the last several thousand years aren't going to be easy to clean up. But it's worth doing so.
Especially since language is one reason reason we have problems in the first place. By assigning 'manliness' to a positive trait this way, you're implicitly saying that being male itself is a positive thing, which contributes to the culture of sexism we were literally just praising the manga for defying.
Look, I'm not blind to the idea that you want to also sound natural, and 'manly' is a natural because societies are already set to think "Well, yeah, being a dude is great". But if nothing else, people should be aware of what this is and how it's not really a good thing, even if we have to live with it because of the impracticality of inventing a new language system that everyone accepts.
To elaborate, what I mean is that in languages like French and Japanese, gender is a much more fundamental part of the language. It's not the same as Engllsh where it's restricted to some vocabulary and pronouns.
But at the same time, that makes linguistic gender more disconnected from natural gender. (I mean, you call beards "she" in French.) It's because natural and linguistic gender is so closely tied together in English that they're perceived as inseparable, but that's not a cultural universal.
So the feminist response in languages like Japanese is simply to make feminine and masculine language lose their connotation, and expanding words to have broader meaning. It culturally makes sense, since linguistic and natural gender are already partially separate, and women dislike the idea of adopting masculine speech.
It's complicated issue, but in this case, saying stuff like "'manly' is a word that can apply to everybody" is something that makes sense for Japanese, and their feminism wouldn't seriously consider replacing the word entirely. It's a English-specific cultural idea.
But at the same time, that makes linguistic gender more disconnected from natural gender. (I mean, you call beards "she" in French.) It's because natural and linguistic gender is so closely tied together in English that they're perceived as inseparable, but that's not a cultural universal.
So the feminist response in languages like Japanese is simply to make feminine and masculine language lose their connotation, and expanding words to have broader meaning. It culturally makes sense, since linguistic and natural gender are already partially separate, and women dislike the idea of adopting masculine speech.
It's complicated issue, but in this case, saying stuff like "'manly' is a word that can apply to everybody" is something that makes sense for Japanese, and their feminism wouldn't seriously consider replacing the word entirely. It's a English-specific cultural idea.
I know you will disagree, but I don't think it is the case here. Yeah it is implying that being male itself is a positive thing, but you never get a vibe that being female isn't either.
I see. That's interesting, since I don't know too many languages (just English and Polish) and I'm not a linguist in any sense.
My only point is that our words affect how we think about the world and we should be thoughtful about how we use them. MHA is doing that, and that's more or less all I ask. It's perhaps not perfect, but then, what is?
A lot of cultures would argue it's not, like I know how Japanese people try to phrase it by saying that men and women are equal but have different spheres of influences. But there is ultimately always imbalance where there is discrimination. Saying one is good at the very least carries the implicit suggestion that the other is not so.
But like I said, this isn't really a solvable problem. You can't just upend a language. I'm just saying it's something to be thoughtful and aware of.
You are definitely right that some people view it like this. But I think you can view something as positive without automatically making other thing negative.
It's not like people make a conscious choice about it. They are immersed in this language from birth and often don't even know that males are given an edge in the very speech they're learning. They grow up with it, so it's invisible to them until someone sits them down and makes them think about how the language gives men the leg up. As a result, it's like most sexism. Very few people think "Women are lesser than men" but most of them never the less make decisions that correspond to that view point because they don't even realize they assume men to be superior. That's the greater issue here.
Besides, you're not really making a strong case for the equal value of both things. "Not negative" isn't really a delightful consolation prize while the other gets showered in praise for being awesome.
Just wanted to chime in on the 'language gendering'. In german, linguistic and natural gender are also fairly disconnected. Like, a cake is 'he' and a chainsaw is 'she' 
We also have a third 'gender' in the language, which is neutral and used for child, or weather, etc.
There's isn't really a rule for what's what, things just are what they are.
So I have to say, the fact that this is a 'problem' in english hadn't even crossed my mind.
We also have a third 'gender' in the language, which is neutral and used for child, or weather, etc.
There's isn't really a rule for what's what, things just are what they are.
So I have to say, the fact that this is a 'problem' in english hadn't even crossed my mind.
Just wanted to chime in on the 'language gendering'. In german, linguistic and natural gender are also fairly disconnected. Like, a cake is 'he' and a chainsaw is 'she'
We also have a third 'gender' in the language, which is neutral and used for child, or weather, etc.
There's isn't really a rule for what's what, things just are what they are.
So I have to say, the fact that this is a 'problem' in english hadn't even crossed my mind.
It goes a lot deeper than just pronoun use though. It ranges all the way from terminology discrimination (You call a man a bitch, you're saying he's weak or cowardly. You call a woman a bitch, you're saying she's disagreeable.) to a lot of way we use language ("Be a man!" when said to a male is to say "Be a proper human being"), or how we assign aspects to stereotypes of not being considered manly (like how gay people are stereotyped to have effeminate qualities, and therefore talk in an effeminate way)
This, unfortunately, requires an even more intimate understanding of japanese language than merely knowing their grammar.
That said, to be honest, I haven't studied rhetoric or anthropology in a long time, so it's hard for me to recall specific details. But there are plenty of books about this. Point I'm making here is, language is a very, very important part of cultural identity, and very few cultures aren't infused with extremely strong gendered language in some way. I can't speak to how it works in germany or france, but this is all but universal, yet because it's universal, it's difficult to identify unless you think about it a certain way.
Case in point is MHA. If Crimson Riot hadn't clarified that he included women in his philosophy, it would sound like he's just saying "Men are better, so be proper men". Because, without that, that is what the words he is saying basically mean. Yet, according to some people here, he is unable to say it another way because the Japanese language is designed as such to use masculinity to mean these kinds of positive things.
Like I said, it's not a huge problem since MHA did what it did well enough, and this isn't a language thread anyway, but I just don't think there is much point in denying that language is slanted to favor one gender and I also don't think saying that that fact is a shame is too controversial.
Just started marathoning through the manga, really enjoying it so far but I just got to chapter 137 and I've noticed that the art's quality really took a hit these past few chapters. There was a chapter that looked like those infamous Hunter X Hunter panels, and since then there have been a lot of panels without any backgrounds, with 137 literally having multiple panels with no art and just text.
Yeah, Horikoshi was been hospitalized during that time and he's only just recently gotten back on top of his art game. Those should be improved when it comes out in volumes.
Ah damn, that's awful. Good to hear he's doing better.
Eh Veelk it is not as easy for many languages as for English for example. Genders are ingrained into the japanese language and I appreciate Hori even letting fatgum include this part in that way. There was no other good way for him to do that.
Also why are you everywhere where I want to read just some threads of things I like and then I read whole pages of you complaining about things. ;_;
Also why are you everywhere where I want to read just some threads of things I like and then I read whole pages of you complaining about things. ;_;
It's not easy for any language, including english.
And this barely even qualifies as a complaint. It's a minor niggle. Hell, let me point out that while criticizing it, my first post on the matter was praising that the whole "include women too" wasn't just lip service since he included Ashido acting this philosophy out. I've multiple times that I'm not really all that bothered by it.
But it's somewhat interesting, if controversial, talking point, so people expand the discussion. But I have mostly nothing but good things to say about MHA.
And this barely even qualifies as a complaint. It's a minor niggle. Hell, let me point out that while criticizing it, my first post on the matter was praising that the whole "include women too" wasn't just lip service since he included Ashido acting this philosophy out. I've multiple times that I'm not really all that bothered by it.
But it's somewhat interesting, if controversial, talking point, so people expand the discussion. But I have mostly nothing but good things to say about MHA.
I just want to point out that the way gender affects languages like French and German is radically different from the way it influences Japanese.
In the former, nouns have a gender of their own, which affect conjugation, declension, etc. This is mostly a grammatical thing, like other people have said the gender of the word has little relation to its meaning (the most popular slang words for "penis" are feminine in French for example). If you don't do those things as you are supposed to, you are just wrong. The gender the speaker identifies as only affects how they talk about themselves in a minute way (in French, the main thing would be that adjectives would have a different ending).
Japanese, just like English, doesn't have gendered nouns and the grammar doesn't change based on the gender of the person you're talking about. On the other hand, women tend to speak in a different way than men (although less and less so nowadays apparently) - I.e. different word/pronoun/or even politeness level choice. Choice is the key word there though, you wouldn't be wrong choosing differently, you might just sound more "feminine" or "masculine."
In the former, nouns have a gender of their own, which affect conjugation, declension, etc. This is mostly a grammatical thing, like other people have said the gender of the word has little relation to its meaning (the most popular slang words for "penis" are feminine in French for example). If you don't do those things as you are supposed to, you are just wrong. The gender the speaker identifies as only affects how they talk about themselves in a minute way (in French, the main thing would be that adjectives would have a different ending).
Japanese, just like English, doesn't have gendered nouns and the grammar doesn't change based on the gender of the person you're talking about. On the other hand, women tend to speak in a different way than men (although less and less so nowadays apparently) - I.e. different word/pronoun/or even politeness level choice. Choice is the key word there though, you wouldn't be wrong choosing differently, you might just sound more "feminine" or "masculine."
^ Yeah, i was glossing over the specific details since I figured this was already getting really off-topic.
In Japanese, the way you phrase things and what grammatical particles you use mark your gender and politeness. Traditionally, speaking feminine is associated with being humble and demure and polite and all that. Stereotypically traditional feminine stuff.
But nowadays, rather than switch to masculine speech, most Japanese women just speak with feminine speech, but just dump the feminine cultural association. So for example, Ochako and Mina speak in a normal feminine style, but they're not demure or very polite at all.
Obviously it's more complicated than that since it's an ongoing change and a ton of other cultural things, but yeah, that's how it works.
In Japanese, the way you phrase things and what grammatical particles you use mark your gender and politeness. Traditionally, speaking feminine is associated with being humble and demure and polite and all that. Stereotypically traditional feminine stuff.
But nowadays, rather than switch to masculine speech, most Japanese women just speak with feminine speech, but just dump the feminine cultural association. So for example, Ochako and Mina speak in a normal feminine style, but they're not demure or very polite at all.
Obviously it's more complicated than that since it's an ongoing change and a ton of other cultural things, but yeah, that's how it works.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The current flashbacks should be taken together with Kirishima during the rescue Bakugou arc to get a full picture.
"When I heard that they were after my buddy...I couldn't do anything!! I didn't do anything!! If I don't act now...forget being a hero, I'm not even a man!"
"When I heard that they were after my buddy...I couldn't do anything!! I didn't do anything!! If I don't act now...forget being a hero, I'm not even a man!"
I am glad Horikoshi is able to make a secondary character so consistent and enjoyable like Kirishima. To tell the truth he is already has a bettr characterization than all main characters except for AM and Deku imo.
Kirishima loves the manliest of men
Even so I like Kirishima's story, I didn't find the timing and pacing to be good. Even in this thread this two chapter story felt too long for many, since it happened right in an action beat. It also didn't answer a question, which needed to be answered at that moment. "Why does Kirishima jumps into the attack?" Wasn't on anyone's mind at that moment.
In comperation we had a flashback in One Piece at the moment Luffy showed Big Mom a photo of a woman, which would weaken her guard and make her vulnerable for an assassin attack. Nobody of the characters know, why this photo has this effect and the reader is wondering, if it actually works (since it sounds wired). After a big action scene the whole crowd goes silent as Luffy is able to put the photo into her face and the flashback reveals to the reader, why it has that effect.
It's good timing, since Oda created a moment to breath, since there wasn't an action beat at that moment, and it answered an important question at the right moment.
In comperation we had a flashback in One Piece at the moment Luffy showed Big Mom a photo of a woman, which would weaken her guard and make her vulnerable for an assassin attack. Nobody of the characters know, why this photo has this effect and the reader is wondering, if it actually works (since it sounds wired). After a big action scene the whole crowd goes silent as Luffy is able to put the photo into her face and the flashback reveals to the reader, why it has that effect.
It's good timing, since Oda created a moment to breath, since there wasn't an action beat at that moment, and it answered an important question at the right moment.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Wow I thought the volume would have been out now, looking forward to it and also BLack Clovers fixed chapter of that time too.
The chapters are already fixed in the volume.
I don't think the pace was problematic. The problems were:
1st: Placement. It sort of broke the impact of final blow.
2nd: Chapter sizes: For some reason both chapters were really short, like they were intended to be one chapter only. The fact that both chapters have the same name sort of confirms it.
My point was, that any flashback didn't fit (no matter the length), since it was right between the punch, which killed the impact (like you said). There should have been a moment, where the flashback would have fit, a simple pause between his jump into the attack and the actual next punch, would have been better.
But it still feels unnecessary, since it didn't answer any question, which needed to be answered at that moment for the reader. It just misses the right dramatic background to make it work.
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