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[Zero²]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

80-100 lbs in 3 months?

 

[Faiz]

I'm sorry you got injured.

I'm sorry your anatomy is bad for weightlifting.

Weightlifting, statistically, remains one of the least injury prone physical activities.

If absolutely safety is your goal, ok sure, don't lift heavy weights.

But every physical activity has risks of different injuries. "High rep low weight" comes with its own problems and risks as well. So does sitting at a desk typing all day.

Doctors are great for the profession they practice. Orthopedists and spinal surgeons see people who are injured and do their best at treating them.

But they generally only see people who are injured. Believe it or not, MDs are not the final word on sports nutrition and physiology, and they are often misguided on both.

We make our choices, we take our risks. It sucks you got a bad injury.

 

[mike6467]

Barbell lifts with proper instruction and progression are incredibly safe. If you really want to look at the walking wounded, use runners. Runners have the highest injury rates of recreational athletes.

Doctors haven't been the best at training and nutrition advice historically either. I'll stick with strength coaches who have decades of real world experience.

Sorry, OP ��

Quoting this because bottom of page and very good points.

This sucks to hear, I wish you all the best.

Obviously everyone is different, but progressive, heavy lifting under the guidance of a spinal specialist and a PT (that is an actual physical therapist) saved my back after I had a bulging disk from a car wreck. When I stop for more then 3 weeks or so I start to feel my sciatic pain act up. Otherwise I'm stronger and more pain free now then I've ever been otherwise.

I'm suspect of any personal trainers though, that much is true. You're very right about people not knowing your anatomy. How you approach (especially) deadlifts and squats are both highly dependent on how you're built.

I don't know what to say otherwise. There are a lot of physical and emotional benefits of lifting heavy for a lot of people, obviously people have to weigh the risks for themselves. For me it was a turning point for my rehab and a huge emotional boost as well.

 

[Diablos]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

Yeah. I’m really conservative about deadlifting. I don’t overdo it. I don’t even bother with squats, way too easy to fuck up and hurt yourself.

 

[Whales]

Deadlifts is the exercice I never do because i'm scared of what could happen to my back, and I have difficulty having good form for them. So I simply don't approach them

I also feel like I get some slight back pain doing squats so i'm moving away from doing them too.

Im sorry for you OP, thanks for sharing your experience too

 

[The Lamp]

But spinal injuries like that can't be attributed to the exercises alone. Hundreds of thousands (millions even?) do such exercises every day. That's what I'm saying, that it's exercise + something else that causes such injuries.

Your comment on doing barbell and dumbbell exercises stood out to me. My dad taught me to do compound excerises, moves that work multiple muscle groups at the same time. Dumbbell exercises and body building exercises often focus on single muscles/muscle groups. Combining the two can be dangerous, since you become unbalanced, and especially if you're switching between powerlifting and bodybuilding exercises in the same workout. It's like trying to train to be a sprinter and a long distance marathon runner at the same time;

I agree with you: Injury is a multivariate problem caused by several factors that weight differently for each person. Plenty of people spend their whole lives squatting and never experience painful or damaging symptoms. But some people do and do suffer.

I don't mean to say that everyone will experience what I did, or that everyone will permanently damage their bodies, I'm just saying that I've been recommended not to do it, and my personal factors caused me regrettable damage, and I would just like to caution people before they assume certain exercises are okay for them. I also am not a fan of how quickly people jump into weightlifting. I got into barbell exercises in 3 months. I would have rather spent a year prepping into something like that to make sure I didn't have any underlying anatomical issues that would cause me grief later. But on the internet and on TV and in person, it's common to hear "12 week routines" or other stuff prescribed to anybody who wants to get off the couch and gain muscle.

In general, exercise is good for you. But there are so many routes to gain muscle and cardio health. Some are slower, some are faster. Doctors are going to recommend the ones that risk the least damage on the body, even if they do it themselves or don't experience problems from it, because they have to. I learned that. I learned the "you shoulds" and "you should nots." For me personally though, I can't load my spine anymore, and like I said, I even had a trainer at my gym (not the one I worked with) get condescending with me after I told him my limitations.

I'm sorry you got injured.

I'm sorry your anatomy is bad for weightlifting.

Weightlifting, statistically, remains one of the least injury prone physical activities.

If absolutely safety is your goal, ok sure, don't lift heavy weights.

But every physical activity has risks of different injuries. "High rep low weight" comes with its own problems and risks as well. So does sitting at a desk typing all day.

Doctors are great for the profession they practice. Orthopedists and spinal surgeons see people who are injured and do their best at treating them.

But they generally only see people who are injured. Believe it or not, MDs are not the final word on sports nutrition and physiology, and they are often misguided on both.

We make our choices, we take our risks. It sucks you got a bad injury.

This is true and fair.

 

[Summer Haze]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

Hmm. Dumbbells are going to be extra risky on your core due to the amount of stabilization you have to do. Even with good form, those last few reps must've been a little shaky with 45KG DBs? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was at least a contributing factor to your injury OP. Why didn't you use a barbell?

For reference that's what 45KG dumbbells looks like. You gotta have hanging on lampposts horizontally levels of core strength/stability to be able to squat that comfortably for multiple reps.

Edit: I see you used both DBs and a barbell. Still...I wouldn't recommend squatting with heavy DBs at all.

 

[The Lamp]

80-100 lbs in 3 months?

A little over 3 months, yeah.
But I was doing high weight, low rep, and not having issues with it. I kept form. I think maybe it was only 75 lbs or 80 lbs. Like 40 lbs dumbbells in each hand. Can't remember, it's been a year since I did any of that.

Hmm. Dumbbells are going to be extra risky on your core due to the amount of stabilization you have to do. Even with good form, those last few reps must've been a little shaky with 45KG DBs? I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was at least a contributing factor to your injury OP. Why didn't you use a barbell?

I used both depending on the day or week. My trainer helped me design and lead my workouts. I would do different variations of deadlift or squat.

 

[woolley]

I could be wrong but to me it sounds like you were probably lifting more weight than you should have. Jumping up to 100 lb dumbbells in 3 months doesn't sound normal to me, I might get to 80 after six months of training but even then I would only do small reps.

 

[Bsigg12]

Deadlifts is the exercice I never do because i'm scared of what could happen to my back, and I have difficulty having good form for them. So I simply don't approach them

I also feel like I get some slight back pain doing squats so i'm moving away from doing them too.

Im sorry for you OP, thanks for sharing your experience too

If you're getting pain in your back from squatting you should have someone take a video of you doing a squat with what you would consider average weight. See how you sit into the weight, where the bar travels and where you rest the majority of the weight.

Also, make sure you're balancing out your quads with hamstring exercises. Something I tend to be bad about and get some lower back tightness from is being quad dominant. When I went crazy on lower back and hammies for a couple months, my squat went back up.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Lifting heavy definitely fucked up my back(yes I had good form). I quit squats and deadlifts and got better, all I can do now for legs without pain is trap bar lifts tbh.

 

[SMattera]

The doctors I've seen have actively told me that lifting weights properly is good for your spine.

My stepdad had spinal surgery from a bulging disc, and his surgeon told him explicitly that rather than cause it, his weight lifting routine actually limited the damage.

Many people get bulging discs and have never lifted a weight in their lives.

 

[Whales]

If you're getting pain in your back from squatting you should have someone take a video of you doing a squat with what you would consider average weight. See how you sit into the weight, where the bar travels and where you rest the majority of the weight.

Also, make sure you're balancing out your quads with hamstring exercises. Something I tend to be bad about and get some lower back tightness from is being quad dominant. When I went crazy on lower back and hammies for a couple months, my squat went back up.

Well its a little pain, kinda like what you said its a little lower back pain.

I askd my gym partner how was my form and everything and he tells me everytime that my form is fine

He also tells me that some lower back pain/ fatigue is normal though but still, it scares me and i'm not a fan.

 

[Ovid]

Beginner workouts that start with barbells and deadlifts are always red flags for me. You need a lot of core strength and muscle around your back and legs to support those exercises.

Yup.

For squat, there are so many stabilizers involved that need to be strengthened: back, abs, hips, hams, glutes, calves.

You have make sure you're properly warmed up prior to hitting compound movements.

It affects my squat but I don't care, I hit hams, quads, hip abductor/adductor and glutes BEFORE squatting. I stretch before, during and after each set as well. Foam rolling helps too.

 

[Peltz]

Seems legit to me.

If you don't want to get injured then don't lift weights.

If you lift you're attempting to overload and keep your muscles under tension for extended periods of time.

You're getting fatigued and your form becomes sloppy. If you're training hard and maintaining a daily calorie deficit it becomes even more likely that your body isn't going to recover sufficiently between workouts which also increases your chance of injury.

Sooner or later if you lift you're going to get injured one way or another. It's a matter of 'when' not 'if'.

Just don't do anything which could compromise your form. 15 years and I've never been injured. In fact, weight lifting could actually increase your durability if you do it right.

A lot of people also lift way too much weight. That's not really necessary to get ripped unless you're trying to look like a body builder (which I think is gross). Drop the weight, increase the reps and make your form nice and clean.

Shoot for 8-10 reps and you can still put on some decent size as long as the last three reps are tough (but always with clean form). If you can't do that, put down the weight and get something lighter. If you want to be super slim, do 12-15 reps.

Way too many dudes use too much weight for dumb pride. They don't work their muscles and end up throwing their back into each rep when they're not supposed to. It's counter productive and doesn't give them the full range they need for maximum growth. The only people who should be lifting bigger weight than the 8-10 rule are pro athletes (sometimes) and pro body builders.

Injuries aren't common if you use proper form, proper nutrition, and get enough rest. Pretty common if you push yourself past those 3 and/or use questionable 'supplements'

I agree with this.

 

[The Lamp]

The doctors I've seen have actively told me that lifting weights properly is good for your spine.

well yeah weightlifting can be great, especially if it's core exercises. I've been prescribed exercise and strengthening as a mitigation for further damage. It will help. But I have to avoid vertically loading my spine during exercise, so my weight lifting has to be different. This is typical for spine patients.

 

[Epic Drop]

A little over 3 months, yeah.
But I was doing high weight, low rep, and not having issues with it. I kept form. I think maybe it was only 75 lbs or 80 lbs. Like 40 lbs dumbbells in each hand. Can't remember, it's been a year since I did any of that.



I used both depending on the day or week. My trainer helped me design and lead my workouts. I would do different variations of deadlift or squat.

I'm honestly shocked to hear that 80lb total deadlifts did that level of damage to you. It's terrible and I'm sorry to hear that you were hurt, but it's surprising because an 80lb deadlift is barely beginner level weight.

My instinct would be that it was a form issue, because the weight was so low, but you are saying that a certified personal trainer said the form was good, so who am I to question. I am surprised to hear that they had you deadlifting with dumbbells though, when barbells are the "standard" in order to promote good form.

Edit: to be clear, I don't mean this as a diss or to say that you aren't strong, just pointing out the surprise that relatively light weights did that much damage.

 

[Peltz]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

In 3 months?

Personally, I don't see the point of deadlifts. They look dangerous to me and there are better ways of working those muscle groups.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Fucked up my shoulder the same way. Not sure of the anatomy stuff, but it was overhead press excercises I cut out mainly. It did hurt pretty bad, glad it's better from a pain perspective 4 weeks later.

 

[studyguy]

Slow and easy is the way to go. I don't do that ONE REP MAX shit my friends pull, fuck that noise.

If I ever feel something off I'll cold stop for a week and just move to isolation exercises that don't impact the body part I'm worried about. I know my left knee for a fact was fucked snowboarding so squats have always been sketchy for me after a certain weight.

 

[FUME5]

Sorry to hear you got injured, but I have had the opposite experience to you.

I ruptured a disc in my spine with cartilage sticking into my spinal column lifting railway sleepers as a young man. It finally stopped hurting all the time a few years ago so I got back into weights to build up my core strength and protect my back.

Squats and deadlifts have been incredible in reducing my pain, I did switch to front squats, but that wasn't due to any spinal loading concerns.

EDIT

FYI I weigh ~72 kg and was back squatting ~80kg and can deadlift ~130 kg.

 

[FreddieQuell]

If I recall I think I tried 20 lbs. dumbbells on each hand, which was very easy for me. I was eating and working out and gaining so much strength that I eventually got to what I think was like 80-100 lbs.

You're saying you deadlifted this?

 

[The Lamp]

You're saying you deadlifted this?

I honestly don't remember if it was 70 (35 lbs dumbbells) or 90 (45 lbs dumbbells), I didn't write that down and it was a year ago. I don't remember what the bar had on it. I did it with form and supervision and without pain at low reps. In general I increased the weight I lift almost every week, as is recommended by a lot of people.

 

[Forearms]

I honestly don't remember if it was 70 (35 lbs dumbbells) or 90 (45 lbs dumbbells), I didn't write that down and it was a year ago. I don't remember what the bar had on it. I did it with form and supervision and without pain at low reps. In general I increased the weight I lift almost every week, as is recommended by a lot of people.

You really must have done something very wrong. I started weight lifting back in April of this year - no previous experience outside of some dumbell lifts. My deadlift started at a 120 lbs, and was up to 290 lbs by the end of the 3rd month. Took a break as I just recently became a father and the workouts were leaving me way to drained. Back at it again as of a week or so ago, deloaded a bit, and am back at 275 lbs.

 

[Alebrije]

Squat and deadlifts are the "cancer" of gyms. People should not do them just becuase a trainer tell them they can.

Sorry for OP experince, saddly specially in the U.S. there is more common to see people on gyms trying to become a "dudebro" doing exercises that put on risk thier bodies. I guess its something cultural.

You can do excersie and just fitness your body without great weight , specially if you just want to keep healthy.

So as the OP says doctors vs trainers : I choose doctors.

 

[Harmen]

When I look around in the gym I do wonder how many of the folks working out there will get (severe) issues down the line. So many young dudes seeking out the get buff while they don't know what they are doing.

Portruding shoulders to the front, hunchback posture, forward head posture, a gorilla type of back curve (butt behind, belly forward), invisible lat syndrome, tiny/thin legs carrying a big upper body. All of these are extremely common to see in significant forms to the extend you can immediately notice it. And then in terms of workout no proper cardio and no stretching.

I am far from perfect myself, mind you, but I always have the long term safety of my sport behaviour in mind and have done well to correct some significant issues of the past.

I think warning people is a good thing to remind them that while sports is healhty, doing it wrongly can have very adverse effects. Especially when doing it long term with high frequency and much repetition.

 

[Forearms]

You can do excersie and just fitness your body without great weight , specially if you just want to keep healthy.

This is correct, but you can't get strong without moving great weight. You can body build to make your muscles appear larger or more defined, but you won't be as strong. There is a difference.

 

[entremet]

Squat and deadlifts are the "cancer" of gyms. People should not do them just becuase a trainer tell them they can.

Sorry for OP experince, saddly specially in the U.S. there is more common to see people on gyms trying to become a "dudebro" doing exercises that put on risk thier bodies. I guess its something cultural.

You can do excersie and just fitness your body without great weight , specially if you just want to keep healthy.

So as the OP says doctors vs trainers : I choose doctors.

Squats and Deadlifts variations are among the most prescribed exercises by professional sports trainers. The people who train top athletes. These are bodies that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

If they were inherently bad for you, athletes would not be doing them. Again most doctors know jack about training and training modalities.

Classic authority bias.

That said I’m specifically talking about a doctor that dismisses barbell lifts wholesale for everyone, not one that made a proper diagnosis to an individual patient based on unique circumstances.

 

[Shamrock7r]

Squat and deadlifts are the "cancer" of gyms. People should not do them just becuase a trainer tell them they can.

Sorry for OP experince, saddly specially in the U.S. there is more common to see people on gyms trying to become a "dudebro" doing exercises that put on risk thier bodies. I guess its something cultural.

You can do excersie and just fitness your body without great weight , specially if you just want to keep healthy.

So as the OP says doctors vs trainers : I choose doctors.

It honestly sounds like you have a bias against the perceived type of people you think only do deadlifts and squats vs the actual excercise itself

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Powerlifting? 17 lbs in 3 months and thinking it's mostly muscle (it's not)? Returning to lifting after several serious injuries? Rippetoe claims another victim.

You've swung too far in the other direction by recommending people avoid weightlifting altogether, but some of your advice is sound. For unfit individuals, jumping into an intense powerlifting/weightlifting routine is a bad idea. Obtain a decent level of general fitness and kinesthetic awareness before you start loading your joints with hundreds of pounds. And if you experience pain -- not soreness -- have the balls/ovaries to step away from the barbell. You're lifting weights to improve your health and have fun, not to make the Olympics.

 

[FUME5]

Squat and deadlifts are the "cancer" of gyms. People should not do them just becuase a trainer tell them they can.

Sorry for OP experince, saddly specially in the U.S. there is more common to see people on gyms trying to become a "dudebro" doing exercises that put on risk thier bodies. I guess its something cultural.

You can do excersie and just fitness your body without great weight , specially if you just want to keep healthy.

So as the OP says doctors vs trainers : I choose doctors.

Dumbest thing I've read today.

Squats and deadlifts are compound exercises that have been practiced since we figured out lifting heavy things could make you stronger.

 

[baxter2231]

Thanks for the story OP, if you save just one person pain from what you said, you did your job here. I think i tweeked my back left shoulder from working out somehow but its not terrible. I always stop if it doesnt feel right. Sometimes its tough and you can feel it but its all muscle and it feels good. Othertimes it just doesnt feel that way and its when I stop. Best to be conservative with this stuff. Also My brother messed up his shoulder doing bench and had to get 2 surgerys and its still not fixed properly. Be careful people.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I've always been paranoid about doing deadlifts, so I stopped doing them after a year. I don't trust myself and my level of coordination to do it, so I stick with machines and some free weight exercises I feel comfortable with. I want to be going to the gym for life-- maybe I'm playing it too safe but at least I'm getting a workout in regularly

 

[entremet]

Powerlifting? 17 lbs in 3 months and thinking it's mostly muscle (it's not)? Returning to lifting after several serious injuries? Rippetoe claims another victim.

You've swung too far in the other direction by recommending people avoid weightlifting altogether, but some of your advice is sound. For unfit individuals, jumping into an intense powerlifting/weightlifting routine is a bad idea. Obtain a decent level of general fitness and kinesthetic awareness before you start loading your joints with hundreds of pounds. And if you experience pain -- not soreness -- have the balls/ovaries to step away from the barbell. You're lifting weights to improve your health and have fun, not to make the Olympics.

He was using dumbbells so I don’t know if he was doing Rippetoe’s stuff. Rippetoe is pure barbell with some calisthenics like chins.

 

[.....]

.

 

[johancruijff]

i'm smelling a thread for the ages

sucks that you're injured OP

 

[Yawnny]

My doctor actually suggested squats when I told him about mild knee stiffness from time to time. I'm a relatively slender, tall dude, and he said barbell squats and lunges are some two key exercises that would help with overall strength on the knee while developing beneficial strength involving the stabilize muscles, but to take things slow.

Overall I still prefer the compound movements. Started out my routine a while back with deadlifts, squats, bench-press, overhead press, and t-bar row.

My full body feels much stronger compared to a previous routine that had isolated accessory lifts that hurt my joints much more when compared to the compounds.

Of course people should have doctor physicals and ask questions in regards to working out to see if there's a unique case such as OP's shoulder issue.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Wait, OP injured himself this seriously deadlifting 160lbs in dumbells?

 

[otapnam]

Form first. You get messed up with ego lifting weights you can't handle

 

[RumblingRosco]

Wait, OP injured himself this seriously deadlifting 160lbs in dumbells?

If that's accurate, OP either 1) has very bad luck in the genetic lottery, 2) had a previous ailment that was undiagnosed, and/or 3) had improper form (OP already stated that he or she does not have improper form based on feedback from personal trainers).

Let me just say, I've seen personal trainers give absolutely awful advice. I'm not sure a trainer giving you the thumbs up is necessarily enough to guarantee good form.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

"Don't do squats and deadlifts until you strengthen your core," people in this thread say.

"How do you strengthen your core?," someone may ask.

Well, squats and deadlifts, actually.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

20 lbs in 3 months is very intense. Like, professional athlete intense. How much did you improve in such a short amount of time?

I've been lifting pretty regularly since about 2007. My PCP, my orthopedist (from a bball Achilles surgery last year), and my physical therapist never warned me off of lifting except when I was recovering from injuries, for obvious reasons. And I've previously had a slipped disk from a water skiing accident, as well as a minor muscle pull in my back (also from basketball).

Terribly sorry to hear about your injuries, your story is definitely a warning sign that everyone should consult their physician before beginning any serious exercise regimen.

"Don't do squats and deadlifts until you strengthen your core," people in this thread say.

"How do you strengthen your core?," someone may ask.

Well, squats and deadlifts, actually.

Weightless or lightly weighted (5-25 lbs) crunches, back extensions, and planks all work the core. I didn't get really into squats or deadlifts until the past few years, but those gave me a good base to start with.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Someone at my gym became paralyzed after damaging their spine doing shoulder press.

I've since become very wary of exerting myself too much at the gym. I'm happy just having a little muscle and keeping the fat off.

Hope you recover OP

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

17lbs on 3500 calories/day in 3 months is theoretically possible I guess, but it seems like a pretty low caloric intake for that kind of weight gain, unless you are really small and had very low lean mass at the start.

It's a bit of a weird story, but it does sound more like genetic factors than anything. Of course if done improperly some types of lifts can do some serious damage though.

 

[Zabka]

Gaining 17 lbs of muscle in 3 months isn't that strange if you're a German Shepherd puppy.

 

[parrotbeak]

I've had all kinds of injuries from working out. The worst was a ruptured disc that required surgery and took years to heal from (will never be same). Others have been inflamed joints, wrist and ankle strains, knee strains, shoulder and rib inflammations that kept me from overhead pressing for weeks.

All of them healed eventually and slowly getting back into lifting seemed to help the healing.

Strain and joint inflammations can happen from cardio too. Any activity can cause injury, especially when you're sedentary most of the day and then cram all your physical activity into a few hours.

Proper warm up and rest and knowing your limits will keep injuries down but I've never gone a year without some injury that interfered with my regular workout. My goal is to not get injured to the point that I can't do other things.

 

[TheOMan]

Is this fucking for real?

Lots of doctors are like that.

Lots are not, so I believe it.

 

[Transhuman]

Before I read this thread I was *this close* to committing to regular exercise for my heath. Oh no. Now all I can do is just lie in bed and eat chocolate coated blueberries I guess. Damn you universe!

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I've never been injured but I stick to lighter weight and more reps, more endurance training than strength kind of like what a lot of basketball and soccer players do. I feel better physically than when I lift heavy.

 

[Harmen]

Lots of doctors are like that.

Lots are not, so I believe it.

To be fair, it are the doctors that frequently get to see the fucked up bodies. They can't see how someone trains or correct it, so it makes it easier to advise against when they see someone who trained a lot but has a lot of issues that may be a result of said training. In the case of op, op agrees that as a result of training he got injured, so the advice to lay off training isn't that preposterous in this case. And they also can't just easily see which people have bodies that don't gel well with heavy lifting (some people just have weak backs or poorly aligned joints from genetics).

But yes, the notion that lifting in itself is bad is absolutely incorrect.