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[Succinct Verbosity]

TNG seasons 1,2,6,7 are just bad imo. DS9 is brilliant and much less episodic. I really like all the characters except maybe Qwark, whose 1 dimensional greed conveniently goes away when it comes down to it because he's a decent person after all. Bleh.

I figured that he slowly came to the realisation that the Federations idealism was far better for business than a heavy military hand that oppressed anything or anyone that wouldn't function within its own ideology. The federation did, at least, allow its neighbours to exist, and it did try and take a diplomatic approach to those different from them. The Dominion would have just rolled into Ferengi space and closed the "free market" for good.

As Quark said himself (and Eddington), the federation are insidious and they'll wear you down with diplomacy rather than brute force.

 

[jb1234]

TNG seasons 1,2,6,7 are just bad imo. DS9 is brilliant and much less episodic. I really like all the characters except maybe Qwark, whose 1 dimensional greed conveniently goes away when it comes down to it because he's a decent person after all. Bleh.

Season 6 starts out pretty poor but by the mid-point, there's an incredibly strong run of episodes. I'm confident calling it a good season of TNG overall. Season 7, on the other hand...

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Season 6 has Chain of Command, Tapestry, Birthright, Rightful Heir, Starship Mine and little else.

It's a middling season sandwiched with mediocrity and a great, tasty middle. Essentially, no different from other bad TNG seasons like 2.

 

[jb1234]

Season 6 has Chain of Command, Tapestry, Birthright, Rightful Heir, Starship Mine and little else.

It's a middling season sandwiched with mediocrity and a great, tasty middle. Essentially, no different from other bad TNG seasons like 2.

It also has Relics, Schisms, Ship in a Bottle, Face of the Enemy, Frame of Mind, Second Chances, Lessons and Timescape, all good to great episodes.

(But since you said you didn't like season 4, one of the strongest seasons the show ever did, I think that our tastes are just very, very different.)

 

[Box of Kittens]

Skipping Season 7 of TNG is probably for the best. The finale is great and there's a few standout episodes, but the rest of the season is a slog. The only thing keeping it from being the worst season is just how incredibly dreadful Season 1 is.

I'm glad you're enjoying DS9 so far. The series expands in scope as it goes on, which causes a lot of people to dismiss the early seasons. Season 1 is probably my least favorite, but it still does an effective job of introducing the characters, establishing the setting, and laying groundwork for future story lines. Season 2 is really an underrated gem. There's a bit of a lull near the middle of that season, but it starts and ends very strongly and even during what I'd call the lull the episodes are mostly watchable with a couple of good ones. Really one of the great things about DS9 is that it never truly had a bad season. Bad episodes for sure, but nothing I'd call a bad season.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

It also has Relics, Schisms, Ship in a Bottle, Face of the Enemy, Frame of Mind, Second Chances, Lessons and Timescape, all good to great episodes.

(But since you said you didn't like season 4, one of the strongest seasons the show ever did, I think that our tastes are just very, very different.)

Season 4 is like season 6. It's sandwiched with a lot of ugh. I'm not sure how many more "something happens that threatens the entire ship!" Episodes I can take due to season 4. The one where Doctor Crusher disappears and the Enterprise is empty took me an entire month to get through.

Skipping Season 7 of TNG is probably for the best. The finale is great and there's a few standout episodes, but the rest of the season is a slog. The only thing keeping it from being the worst season is just how incredibly dreadful Season 1 is.

I'm glad you're enjoying DS9 so far. The series expands in scope as it goes on, which causes a lot of people to dismiss the early seasons. Season 1 is probably my least favorite, but it still does an effective job of introducing the characters, establishing the setting, and laying groundwork for future story lines. Season 2 is really an underrated gem. There's a bit of a lull near the middle of that season, but it starts and ends very strongly and even during what I'd call the lull the episodes are mostly watchable with a couple of good ones. Really one of the great things about DS9 is that it never truly had a bad season. Bad episodes for sure, but nothing I'd call a bad season.

What are the best episodes of season 7 so I don't have to suffer?

 

[jb1234]

Season 4 is like season 6. It's sandwiched with a lot of ugh. I'm not sure how many more "something happens that threatens the entire ship!" Episodes I can take due to season 4. The one where Doctor Crusher disappears and the Enterprise is empty took me an entire month to get through.

Aw... I love Remember Me! It's the rare good Dr. Crusher episode! And to be fair, the ship isn't threatened in that episode, just Beverly.

But if that's the type of episode you hate, definitely skip Season 7 (and also because it's the second worst season after 1).

What are the best episodes of season 7 so I don't have to suffer?

Gambit (since you liked Starship Mine, it's similarly action Trek), Phantasms, Inheritance, Parallels, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, Preemptive Strike and All Good Things... are worth watching.

 

[Box of Kittens]

What are the best episodes of season 7 so I don't have to suffer?

The Pegasus
Lower Decks
Preemptive Strike
All Good Things...

EDIT: Beaten. jb1234's suggestions are also good.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Aw... I love Remember Me! It's the rare good Dr. Crusher episode! And to be fair, the ship isn't threatened in that episode, just Beverly.

But if that's the type of episode you hate, definitely skip Season 7 (and also because it's the second worst season after 1).
Gambit (since you liked Starship Mine, it's similarly action Trek), Phantasms, Inheritance, Parallels, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, Preemptive Strike and All Good Things... are worth watching.

Qpid is another season 4 episode I found flat out embarrassing and I hoped no one walked in while watching. I thought Starship Mine and Fistful of Data's were some of the few "fun" TNG episodes that worked.

I've heard quite a lot of praises for Lower Decks. What's the episode where Worf and Alexander leave to go to DS9? What are the Worf and Alexander episodes of season 7 period?

 

[JeffZero]

What's the episode where Worf and Alexander leave to go to DS9?

There isn't one, because Worf joins DS9 in what would have been TNG's ninth season, so-to-speak. It's after the first TNG movie, at the start of DS9's fourth year.

 

[jb1234]

Qpid is another season 4 episode I found flat out embarrassing and I hoped no one walked in while watching. I thought Starship Mine and Fistful of Data's were some of the few "fun" TNG episodes that worked.

I've heard quite a lot of praises for Lower Decks. What's the episode where Worf and Alexander leave to go to DS9? What are the Worf and Alexander episodes of season 7 period?

Qpid is godawful.

The only Alexander episode in season 7 is "Firstborn." It's a very average episode of TNG but if you like the character (and very few do), go for it.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

What about Worf episodes?

 

[jb1234]

What about Worf episodes?

Parallels, Homeward and Firstborn are all Worf-centric.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I get THREE Klingon episodes?! Hnnng.

 

[jb1234]

I get THREE Klingon episodes?! Hnnng.

Well, no. Only Firstborn has anything to do with Klingons. Parallels is a technobabble episode that just happens to star Worf (but it's very good) and Homeward is a really dire Prime Directive gone wrong story that involves Worf's foster brother.

 

[Sephzilla]

People saying seasons 6 and 7 of TNG are bad/worth skipping....

 

[JeffZero]

What about Worf episodes?

"Parallels" is a rare, rather brilliant Worf-helmed episode that, rather than featuring his traditional arc, puts him in a strange episodic plot the likes of which are typically reserved for other, less-developed characters. It is a very good episode.

"Homeward" is Worf-centric. "Eye of the Beholder" is a Troi vehicle prominently that features Worf. And then there's the aforementioned "Firstborn".

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

People saying seasons 6 and 7 of TNG are bad/worth skipping....

WILL RIKER FIND HIS DESTINED LONG LOST LOVE?!?!?!

"I'll meet you there."

"We can have shore leave and visit."

"I'd like that!"

Is never mentioned AGAIN.

💩💩💩

 

[JeffZero]

People saying seasons 6 and 7 of TNG are bad/worth skipping....

I think 6 and 7 are wildly uneven. I also happen to think similarly about the previous years, though, so the hate on them has always kind of made me shrug. 6 is the favorite season of many of the production staff, though, whereas 7 is when most of them admit they screwed up because they were running out of ideas.

I recognize how bad 7 can get, but it's secretly my favorite season. I cherrypick like mad whenever I rewatch TNG, anyway, and a third of Season 7 is excellent IMO. The crew finally operates like more of a close-knit family that's seen some shit out on the frontier, and less like a group of professionals who don't mind working together. There's a bond in the good parts of 7 that is vital to me. It is why I wish the series went on a little bit further, whereas most of my peers (many of whom like TNG a lot more than I do!) are glad it ended when it did.

 

[The Real Abed]

DS9 gets so good once

Spoiler

__Worf__

shows up. (Don't read that spoiler unless someone already spoiled it) The first few seasons are just different in comparison. Once the show figures out what it wants to be it gets good.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

That isn't a spoiler. I did watch the occasional episode when I was a kid so I know he joins. Worf has always been my favorite.

 

[JeffZero]

DS9 gets so good once

Spoiler

__Worf__

shows up. (Don't read that spoiler unless someone already spoiled it) The first few seasons are just different in comparison. Once the show figures out what it wants to be it gets good.

Hehe, she already knows.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think 6 and 7 are wildly uneven. I also happen to think similarly about the previous years, though, so the hate on them has always kind of made me shrug. 6 is the favorite season of many of the production staff, though, whereas 7 is when most of them admit they screwed up because they were running out of ideas.

I recognize how bad 7 can get, but it's secretly my favorite season. I cherrypick like mad whenever I rewatch TNG, anyway, and a third of Season 7 is excellent IMO. The crew finally operates like more of a close-knit family that's seen some shit out on the frontier, and less like a group of professionals who don't mind working together. There's a bond in the good parts of 7 that is vital to me. It is why I wish the series went on a little bit further, whereas most of my peers (many of whom like TNG a lot more than I do!) are glad it ended when it did.

My appreciation for seasons 6 and 7 of TNG grew tremendously after watching Voyager and the first two seasons of Enterprise, because TNG 6/7 look amazing when compared to some actually bad Star Trek

 

[jb1234]

My appreciation for seasons 6 and 7 of TNG grew tremendously after watching Voyager and the first two seasons of Enterprise, because TNG 6/7 look amazing when compared to some actually bad Star Trek

Voyager (at least the later seasons) is a guilty pleasure, I hate to admit. Enterprise I just insisted on hate watching because I'm a Trek completist.

 

[JeffZero]

My appreciation for seasons 6 and 7 of TNG grew tremendously after watching Voyager and the first two seasons of Enterprise, because TNG 6/7 look amazing when compared to some actually bad Star Trek

I tend to think Voyager 4-7 are rather like TNG 3-7; really uneven but some good episodes here and there that keep me going. I like the cast of Voyager more overall, too. It's just a more fun group, although it definitely has the worst offenders. (Neelix is the obvious example, but even he can at least prove entertaining and insightful on rare occasions. Chakotay is just the most wooden and uninspired character in the franchise. He makes Crusher look as compelling as Data by comparison.)

Voyager 1-3 is pretty damned rough, though. Finding a decent episode in there (especially 1 and 2) is like noticing a $10 bill in your jeans pocket. It is cause for celebration. I can put the beer down and smile.

 

[Sickboy007]

You can tell that the writers loved working with O'Brien, every time an episode focuses on him the script is on point. It also helps that Colm Meaney is an excellent actor, he could sell almost anything.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Bashir is thirsty for some Yeerk.

 

[Sephzilla]

Voyager (at least the later seasons) is a guilty pleasure, I hate to admit. Enterprise I just insisted on hate watching because I'm a Trek completist.

Getting through the last two seasons of Voyager was really rough for me. Same with the first two seasons of Enterprise (ENT seasons 3 and 4 are great though so it was worth it).

I tend to think Voyager 4-7 are rather like TNG 3-7; really uneven but some good episodes here and there that keep me going. I like the cast of Voyager more overall, too. It's just a more fun group, although it definitely has the worst offenders. (Neelix is the obvious example, but even he can at least prove entertaining and insightful on rare occasions. Chakotay is just the most wooden and uninspired character in the franchise. He makes Crusher look as compelling as Data by comparison.)

Voyager 1-3 is pretty damned rough, though. Finding a decent episode in there (especially 1 and 2) is like noticing a $10 bill in your jeans pocket. It is cause for celebration. I can put the beer down and smile.

Damn, I think we've finally found the break in our mutual wavelength

 

[jb1234]

Getting through the last two seasons of Voyager was really rough for me. Same with the first two seasons of Enterprise (ENT seasons 3 and 4 are great though so it was worth it).

Yeah, seasons 4 and 5 are the peak of Voyager. After that, it's downhill but I still find that the show never reaches the lows of its first three seasons (especially the second).

 

[Burkatron81]

Watch Enterprise, its the bomb. Just make sure you give arsehole Captain Archer a chance to grow on you, he comes good eventually.

 

[CloudyTuba]

I find The Next Generation aesthetically ugly and sterile, the absolute definition of nerdiness. It's characters annoy me (yes, even Picard), and my visits to its world (probably about a season's worth of random episodes and three of its four feature films) make me feel like someone tricked me into sitting through a church service. I hate it. Star Trek: The Next Generation's favorite snack is Graham Crackers. It tucks its shirt into its jeans without wearing a belt. It wears Crocks WITH socks. It is an adult with braces.

Star Trek TNG is my favorite show of all time and reading the above felt like a punch to the gut. To the gut. God damn ;_;

People saying seasons 6 and 7 of TNG are bad/worth skipping....

This is how I feel about this entire thread.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Why are these shows so inconsistent in quality from series to series? You'd think they'd learn from their mistakes but kept making blah early seasons. It's like they never learned and this is why we haven't had Star Trek on TV in ten years.

 

[JeffZero]

Bashir is thirsty for some Yerk.

...yes, indeed.

Damn, I think we've finally found the break in our mutual wavelength

;_;

 

[jb1234]

Why are these shows so inconsistent in quality from series to series? You'd think they'd learn from their mistakes but kept making blah early seasons. It's like they never learned and this is why we haven't had Star Trek on TV in ten years.

In the case of Voyager and Enterprise, network interference played a pretty big part.

 

[Sephzilla]

;_;

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I saw all of the TNG films in theaters. Don't remember shit except the Borg Queen movie.

 

[pulsemyne]

Watch Enterprise, its the bomb. Just make sure you give arsehole Captain Archer a chance to grow on you, he comes good eventually.

As soon as manny coto is given the reigns of the show it gets on top form. Series 3 and 4 are great. Pity it got cancelled really.

 

[jb1234]

I saw all of the TNG films in theaters. Don't remember shit except the Borg Queen movie.

That's really the only one worth remembering.

 

[JeffZero]

I saw all of the TNG films in theaters. Don't remember shit except the Borg Queen movie.

In fairness that's generally the one people suggest remembering.


Edit: ...case in point

 

[Htown]

Still never got over the fact that Voyager disregarded half of its own premise by the end of the pilot. All that groundwork laid in TNG and DS9 just completely wasted.

 

[jb1234]

In fairness that's generally the one people suggest remembering.


Edit: ...case in point

Hahaha! What're your thoughts on the TNG films?

 

[BorkBork]

I read that article in the official Trek thread and didn't care for it. It tears down TNG while building up DS9 (not without some snark) without acknowledging that the two shows are very different animals, each with their strengths and weaknesses. It's also very spoilery for newcomers by talking about a lot of pivotal scenes without context. Just be advised.

 

[Sephzilla]

Hahaha! What're your thoughts on the TNG films?

Generations - Actually a good movie until they get to Veridian 3. Then it falls apart. The Kirk stuff was too forced in.
First Contact - Writing isn't strong but it's a fun as hell movie.
Insurrection - WHY DID WE GET THIS INSTEAD OF A DOMINION WAR MOVIE
Nemesis - PicardFacepalm.gif

In fairness that's generally the one people suggest remembering.


Edit: ...case in point

Okay maybe we're back on the wavelength now

 

[JeffZero]

Hahaha! What're your thoughts on the TNG films?

They're somewhat nontraditional, but not terribly so. Generations and Insurrection are both disappointments but I can watch them and enjoy myself, so I don't dislike them to the extent that many do. Insurrection is fine as a big-budget TV episode kind of story, and I'm fine with it being such a thing. I don't like how Generations concludes because it feels rather rushed, but at least they got Alex from A Clockwork Orange as the villain. That's something.

First Contact is decent and certainly the best of the TNG films. It's still only my fourth favorite Star Trek movie, but I like its message and that score is phenomenal.

Nemesis is where I get weird. I fully recognize some of its dire faults but I like the movie more than GEN/INS. I like the politics, I like the endgame. I love that green-shaded nebula. I like Tom Hardy and I'm sad the poor box office returns and critical panning nearly turned him to a life of hard drugs from which he barely recovered. (Apparently.)

(Nope Sephzilla, we are not!)

 

[jb1234]

They're somewhat nontraditional, but not terribly so. Generations and Insurrection are both disappointments but I can watch them and enjoy myself, so I don't dislike them to the extent that many do. Insurrection is fine as a big-budget TV episode kind of story, and I'm fine with it being such a thing. I don't like how Generations concludes because it feels rather rushed, but at least they got Alex from A Clockwork Orange as the villain. That's something.

First Contact is decent and certainly the best of the TNG films. It's still only my fourth favorite Star Trek movie, but I like its message and that score is phenomenal.

Nemesis is where I get weird. I fully recognize some of its dire faults but I like the movie more than GEN/INS. I like the politics, I like the endgame. I love that green-shaded nebula. I like Tom Hardy and I'm sad the poor box office returns and critical panning nearly turned him to a life of hard drugs from which he barely recovered. (Apparently.)

(Nope Sephzilla, we are not!)

Yeah, my thoughts on the films are closer to Sephzilla's than yours. Nemesis is weird to me because it doesn't feel like a TNG film. A good chunk of the cast feels out of character at times (that wedding scene, lord) and the direction is really, really strange.

But I do agree on the First Contact score. I miss Jerry Goldsmith.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

First Contact isn't on Netflix because Paramount are being mean.

 

[Sephzilla]

I think all of the TNG movies at the very least have good ideas, but the execution is poor in 3 of the movies. I still maintain that Generations is a good high-budget TNG episode until they get to the final planet, and that's when the wheels totally fall off the wagon. Insurrection is another good idea that's poorly executed, plus Picard's actions in this movie kind of go against what he did in a similar situation in a TNG episode. Nemesis has some neat Romulan politics but other than that it's just boring.

The big problem with Insurrection and Nemesis is that they tried to turn the TNG crew into action stars when that crew didn't really fit the mold as much as the Kirk-era crew did. Generations and Nemesis are also the biggest violators of the "wrecking the Enterprise in order to build tension" trope.

But lets be real - the best TNG movies are Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things

 

[The Real Abed]

Hehe, she already knows.

Just being safe. I know I wouldn't want to be spoiled.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I don't go to work today so I'll spend it brushing off on TNG, so I can finally finish this thing.

Watching Descent. I hope this is worth it. Sigh.

 

[butalala]

Why are these shows so inconsistent in quality from series to series? You'd think they'd learn from their mistakes but kept making blah early seasons. It's like they never learned and this is why we haven't had Star Trek on TV in ten years.

Because Berman and Braga are a couple of talentless mooks. They were the driving force behind TNG, Voyager and Enterprise. DS9 Was Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore, who wrote most of the TNG Klingon episodes that you like. Moore moved on to Voyager, but was frustrated by the insistence on writing TNG-style stories instead of trying something new, so he left. He went on to create the new BSG, which is basically the show that Voyager could have been if they'd had the balls to do it.

Spoiler

For the sake of conversation, let's ignore the way that BSG developed towards the end and focus on the theme of a ship/group of ships in uncharted territory with limited resources