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[Village]

Twilight Sparkle, lead character in "Friendship is Magic"

*Not pictured: your favourite character.

Man all that other fiction i interact with where the protagonist isn't even the strongest must be doing it wrong.

You can't have things to work up to, or challenges to overcome. Just roman reigns your way up, thats totally just as cool

I'm allowed to not like and criticize aspects of the show.

 

[PaulloDEC]

If you have to bring down other characters to make a main character look good, you're not doing the work justice.

How many times in Doctor Who's run do you think there could've been a reasonable argument for the Time Lords stepping in to sort things out? Problem is, you have them do that once and suddenly it makes no sense that they don't do it constantly. Eventually you have to start writing in excuses for why they can't do anything, because that's the price of having beings with godlike powers in your fiction.

And I would argue that this is still an ensemble show, as can be seen in pretty much every episode of the show.

It totally is, but that doesn't preclude it having a main character. Every single two-parter until The Cutie Map has featured Twilight as the lead character.

Man all that other fiction i interact with where the protagonist isn't even the strongest must be doing it wrong.

Who said anything about strongest?

You can't have things to work up to, or challenges to overcome. Just roman reigns your way up, thats totally just as cool

I have no idea what any of this means.

I'm allowed to not like and criticize aspects of the show.

Who said anything about not criticizing?

 

[DrForester]

How many times in Doctor Who's run do you think there could've been a reasonable argument for the Time Lords stepping in to sort things out? Problem is, you have them do that once and suddenly it makes no sense that they don't do it constantly. Eventually you have to start writing in excuses for why they can't do anything, because that's the price of having beings with godlike powers in your fiction.

Honestly, the Doctor Who in-universe answer really is that the other Time Lords are dicks.

And as for Pony, I'd point to the comics where Celestia and Luna do not (always) come down from on high to solve everything, but an effort is made to explain their absence.


And for other examples, look at Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. Celestia is clearly based on the character of Dumbledore, who shares a lot in common with Gandalf. Dumbledore didn't have to save Harry all the time, nor was he captured every book to await rescue by Harry. Because that would be stupid. Reasons were given for his absence, and at one poitn he did have to step in and save Harry. It didn't in way hurt the character of Harry to have to be rescued. It made sense for the plot because Harry is no match for Voldemort.

Likewise Gandalf is captured once and rescued not by the Fellowshi. He rescues himself with the help of a fellow wizard. By contrast look at the stupid the "Gandalf Gets Captured plot" Jackson added to the Hobbit that did absolutely nothing except let Galadrial do something cool (which she did in the books but Gandalf didn't need rescue).

 

[Village]

Who said anything about strongest?

The fiction its self kind of. " Twilight you have to defeat the thing who kidnapped/took out/ect the gods of this realm.Again"

That's kind of what that means, I used to like twilight, a lot . Lately she's just become hero person. And thats not particularly interesting, like I understand every children show can't be adventure time and have a bunch of super deep stuff going on. And its not meant to, but i dunno . Maybe it was a bit more compelling when she didn't have the wings and junk. More compelling than hero person, who's hero person, because they are needed and they are as powerful as the situation requires, because hero person. Like thats struggling with the wings and new title thing wore off quick.

I'm not going to complain to much, for the most part show is fine. And there are somethings ( some of those things are blue and go fast as hell ) where i have complained so much i'm tired of complaining.

It just seems like her character is getting more and more bland, and they keep throwing more peeps under a buss to make her look cool. But she already does. She already looked cool. It seems forced. And it is, its a toy commercial.

I just don't like it is all.

Edit: Whats also hurting it is because her friends, are legit just people. Like legit just people she met one day who were super cool and awesome.

I have no idea what any of this means.

Roman Reigns is a wrestler who was forcably getting pushed, beating way more popular wrestlers , the crowed wasn't feeling him. And was forced so much that the wrong came in during the royal rumble, won the rumble for him, raised his hand and pointed at him like " he's the new guy " when actually having this guy go through matches and learn and do stuff. And earn that cred, would have gotten him on the crowds side. Instead of jobbing people out and forcing the issue.

Who said anything about not criticizing?

You posted a small statement and a gif. kind of dismissive.

 

[DrForester]

The fiction its self kind of. " Twilight you have to defeat the thing who kidnapped/took out/ect the gods of this realm.Again"

That's kind of what that means, I used to like twilight, a lot . Lately she's just become hero person. And thats not particularly interesting, like I understand every children show can't be adventure time and have a bunch of super deep stuff going on. And its not meant to, but i dunno . Maybe it was a bit more compelling when she didn't have the wings and junk. More compelling than hero person, who's hero person, because they are needed and they are as powerful as the situation requires, because hero person. Like thats struggling with the wings and new title thing wore off quick.

I'm not going to complain to much, for the most part show is fine. And there are somethings ( some of those things are blue and go fast as hell ) where i have complained so much i'm tired of complaining.

It just seems like her character is getting more and more bland, and they keep throwing more peeps under a buss to make her look cool. But she already does. She already looked cool. It seems forced. And it is, its a toy commercial.

This is kind of the root of the problem. Meghan seems to lack confidence that Twilight can be awesome on her own, and instead has to bring down others in order to make her look good.

 

[draetenth]

I have to say, I pretty much agree with Village and DrForester about Twilight and Meghan. I'm enjoying the season so far I think in part because it isn't just the Twilight show. At least, like DrForester mentioned don't bring the other characters down just to make Twilight look better.

This isn't DBZ where you need someone like Vegeta to job to a foe just to show how powerful the new villain is. This is a show about how Friendship is Magic. Twilight's supposed to be the Princess of Friendship. She shouldn't be doing everything solo.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Honestly, the Doctor Who in-universe answer really is that the other Time Lords are dicks.

And as for Pony, I'd point to the comics where Celestia and Luna do not (always) come down from on high to solve everything, but an effort is made to explain their absence.

And for other examples, look at Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. Celestia is clearly based on the character of Dumbledore, who shares a lot in common with Gandalf. Dumbledore didn't have to save Harry all the time, nor was he captured every book to await rescue by Harry. Because that would be stupid. Reasons were given for his absence, and at one poitn he did have to step in and save Harry. It didn't in way hurt the character of Harry to have to be rescued. It made sense for the plot because Harry is no match for Voldemort.

Likewise Gandalf is captured once and rescued not by the Fellowshi. He rescues himself with the help of a fellow wizard. By contrast look at the stupid the "Gandalf Gets Captured plot" Jackson added to the Hobbit that did absolutely nothing except let Galadrial do something cool (which she did in the books but Gandalf didn't need rescue).

If you want an in-universe answer for MLP, I'd say that it's Celestia training Twilight to be her replacement. It works as a pretty good catch-all answer IMO.

Anyway, let's have a look at Celestia's role in the various big stories.

Friendship is Magic - Not present. Actually, where the hell was she?

Return of Harmony - Not present. She can't wield the Elements anymore, so I guess she just chills in Canterlot.

A Canterlot Wedding - Put out of commission by Chrysalis.

The Crystal Empire - Not present. Sitting it out to test Twilight.

Magical Mystery Cure - Not present. Sitting it out to test Twilight again.

Princess Twilight Sparkle - Not present. Captured by vines.

Twilight's Kingdom - Out of commission. Acting as a decoy to mislead Tirek.

The Cutie Map - Not present. Not really anything worthy of her time.

Doesn't strike me as that bad of a track record to be honest. The vines is clearly the dumbest as far as I'm concerned, but her absence in the first two aren't particularly hot either, and both of those occurred under Lauren Faust.

The fiction its self kind of. " Twilight you have to defeat the thing who kidnapped/took out/ect the gods of this realm.Again"

That's kind of what that means, I used to like twilight, a lot . Lately she's just become hero person. And thats not particularly interesting, like I understand every children show can't be adventure time and have a bunch of super deep stuff going on. And its not meant to, but i dunno . Maybe it was a bit more compelling when she didn't have the wings and junk. More compelling than hero person, who's hero person, because they are needed and they are as powerful as the situation requires, because hero person. Like thats struggling with the wings and new title thing wore off quick.

I'm not going to complain to much, for the most part show is fine. And there are somethings ( some of those things are blue and go fast as hell ) where i have complained so much i'm tired of complaining.

It just seems like her character is getting more and more bland, and they keep throwing more peeps under a buss to make her look cool. But she already does. She already looked cool. It seems forced. And it is, its a toy commercial.

I just don't like it is all.

Edit: Whats also hurting it is because her friends, are legit just people. Like legit just people she met one day who were super cool and awesome.

I can't really see the whole "people made to look bad to build up Twilight" arguement. Any examples you can offer?

Even super-recently the solutions to the big problems in the show are solved with teamwork. In the Cutie Map it's total strangers. In Twilight's Kingdom Twi attempts to defeat Tirek on her own and fails miserably. The solution ultimately comes through teamwork. In Princess Twilight Sparkle she kinda solves it solo, but then she is the only expert on magic present.

It kinda feels like this is one of those self-perpetuating fan-narratives that doesn't actually have a solid base in reality.

Roman Reigns is a wrestler who was forcably getting pushed, beating way more popular wrestlers , the crowed wasn't feeling him. And was forced so much that the wrong came in during the royal rumble, won the rumble for him, raised his hand and pointed at him like " he's the new guy " when actually having this guy go through matches and learn and do stuff. And earn that cred, would have gotten him on the crowds side. Instead of jobbing people out and forcing the issue.

Ah.

You posted a small statement and a gif. kind of dismissive.

Sorry, but this conversation has come up a bunch, and I'm running out of ways to respond to it.

I have to say, I pretty much agree with Village and DrForester about Twilight and Meghan. I'm enjoying the season so far I think in part because it isn't just the Twilight show. At least, like DrForester mentioned don't bring the other characters down just to make Twilight look better.

This isn't DBZ where you need someone like Vegeta to job to a foe just to show how powerful the new villain is. This is a show about how Friendship is Magic. Twilight's supposed to be the Princess of Friendship. She shouldn't be doing everything solo.

I can think of very few examples of instances where Twilight attempts to solve a problem solo and succeeds. She often leads the charge with others though, for example the first season premiere, or the Discord two-parter.

 

[DrForester]

Actually interesting note, in Return of Harmony Celestia actually had a hoof in fixing Twilight before Twilight could start fixing the others. She helped, but at no point took the focus off the others by doing so.

As for the pilot, I buy into the theory that Celestia was watching Twilight, ready to banish Luna again if Twilight were to fail. I think Celestia was the one who zapped in the final Element once Twilight figured out how they worked. I guess there are other possibilities, but that one makes the most sense to me. I think Nightmare Moon would have bragged about it if she had defeated/captured Celestia before going to Ponyville. By all we see, she went immediately to Ponyville after escaping the Moon.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Actually interesting note, in Return of Harmony Celestia actually had a hoof in fixing Twilight before Twilight could start fixing the others. She helped, but at no point took the focus off the others by doing so.

As for the pilot, I buy into the theory that Celestia was watching Twilight, ready to banish Luna again if Twilight were to fail. I think Celestia was the one who zapped in the final Element once Twilight figured out how they worked. I guess there are other possibilities, but that one makes the most sense to me. I think Nightmare Moon would have bragged about it if she had defeated/captured Celestia before going to Ponyville. By all we see, she went immediately to Ponyville after escaping the Moon.

Both of these work for me, because they both reinforce the single strongest answer to the big question of "Why doesn't Celestia just fix everything?" It's the reason why I can't be upset that Celestia tends not to get too involved (or is captured by dumb vines) in the big showdowns. If Twilight is set to be the next Celestia, she needs to learn to take care of business without a safety net. As you've just suggested, it's a theme that the show has been using since the very first episode.

It's also the reason why I badly want to see Celestia getting some small-scale episodes. She has the potential to be a great character on the show, but putting her to the forefront in the big episodes makes no sense based on what has come before.

Maybe at some point we'll get a massive Princess team-up smackdown, though. That'd be cool.

 

[DrForester]

Well, take the bookends of season 4 and how the stories could have been altered to better include not just the Princesses, but the other 5.

Princess Twilight Sparkle:
Have the mane 5 attempt to use the elements and fail. For once, actually have Celestia and Luna come to rescue them. Have Celestia and Luna lead the six of them to their old castle to return the elements, along the way telling them the history of the Tree and the Elements. Also gets rid of the stupid Zecora McGuffin Juice.


Twilight's Kingdom: I see two options
1. Have Celestia, Luna and Cadance fight Tirek to buy Twilight more time, rather than just sit their waiting to be captured. Have them lose, or better yet, so like the Zelda games and have them assume the Zelda Role of stunning the villain so Twilight and friends can deliver the final blow. It obvious Celestia and even Discord wanted Twilight to focus on that chest. Make the mystery of the chest the focus of the episode. Alternatively, if they're so desperate for them to give up there powers, at least have the three of them, or at least Luna and Cadance, flee Canterlot after giving up their power, again, to buy Twilight more time. Do something other than have all three of them just sit there doing nothing.

2. Do the big fight scene after Rainbow Powers activate. Have the other five offer something more meaningful to the episode besides just being fuses for the magic friendship cannon.


And then, going back to S3, it goes without saying that "The Crystal Empire" should have been a Cadance episode. They screwed with the status quo by creating Princess Product Placement, do something to justify her inclusion in the world. The suits made you add her, use it. Even with only 13 episodes it would have been easy to toss in a few moments of Twilight being tested by Celestia. Heck, have her do something other than outright ignore Celestia in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" and actually help reform Discord.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Well, take the bookends of season 4 and how the stories could have been altered to better include not just the Princesses, but the other 5.

Princess Twilight Sparkle:
Have the mane 5 attempt to use the elements and fail. For once, actually have Celestia and Luna come to rescue them. Have Celestia and Luna lead the six of them to their old castle to return the elements, along the way telling them the history of the Tree and the Elements. Also gets rid of the stupid Zecora McGuffin Juice.

That'd be an interesting way to change things up. That story as a whole had some big issues I think, though it's hard to tell what would work and what wouldn't without having an entire script to go by.

Twilight's Kingdom:
1. Have Celestia, Luna and Cadance fight Tirek to buy Twilight more time, rather than just sit their waiting to be captured. Have them lose. It obvious Celestia and even Discord wanted Twilight to focus on that chest. Make the mystery of the chest the focus of the episode. Alternatively, if they're so desperate for that fight scene, at least have the three of them, or at least Luna and Cadance, flee Canterlot after giving up their power, again, to buy Twilight more time.

2. Do the big fight scene after Rainbow Powers activate. Have the other five offer something more meaningful to the episode besides just being fuses for the magic friendship cannon.

See, I really liked how the Princesses/Tirek stuff went down in this story. Having the three of them just sitting there when Tirek showed up, only to find there was no magic to be had was like a massive "Fuck you" to Tirek, and Celestia's smug face makes the whole scene worth it.

I guess the Mane 6 could've had something more to do in the story, but it's already pretty tightly packed from how I remember it. I really like the fight as it is, too. A rare moment of Twilight totally losing her cool, and a reminder that fighting alone and fighting with nothing more than raw strength is rarely a solution to your problems.

And then, going back to S3, it goes without saying that "The Crystal Empire" should have been a Cadance episode. They screwed with the status quo by creating Princess Product Placement, do something to justify her inclusion in the world. The suits made you add her, use it. Even with only 13 episodes it would have been easy to toss in a few moments of Twilight being tested by Celestia. Heck, have her do something other than outright ignore Celestia in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" and actually help reform Discord.

I think it's safe to say that "Keep Calm and Flutter On" couldn't get much more broken than it already is, so have at that one. As for the Crystal Empire, what you're suggesting isn't so much a modified version of the existing story as it is a totally new story. I'm a big fan of Cadance so I'd like to see something like that told someday, but I can't really say I expect them to tell a Cadance story as a season opener.

 

[Village]

If we are suggesting ways to open up stories, in interesting directions.

I have a suggestion if you are willing to humor that sort of thing.

 

[SigmasonicX]

If we are suggesting ways to open up stories, in interesting directions.

I have a suggestion if you are willing to humor that sort of thing.

You don't need anyone's permission, just go ahead.

As for me, I still want a story where Twilight has to fight the Dragon Queen in a magic duel (over custody of Spike?), constantly having to counter the Dragon Queen's spells until she exerts so much effort that her horn breaks, then Celestia comes to the rescue, and then Twilight spends the next couple of episodes being unable to use magic until her horn regrows, including one episode where there are magic shenanigans and they have to turn to Trixie to deal with it, but during this time, she realizes she can channel magic through her wings and legs too.

 

[PaulloDEC]

If we are suggesting ways to open up stories, in interesting directions.

I have a suggestion if you are willing to humor that sort of thing.

Of course!

You don't need anyone's permission, just go ahead.

As for me, I still want a story where Twilight has to fight the Dragon Queen in a magic duel (over custody of Spike?), constantly having to counter the Dragon Queen's spells until she exerts so much effort that her horn breaks, then Celestia comes to the rescue, and then Twilight spends the next couple of episodes being unable to use magic until her horn regrows, including one episode where there are magic shenanigans and they have to turn to Trixie to deal with it, but during this time, she realizes she can channel magic through her wings and legs too.

 

[Orcastar]

You don't need anyone's permission, just go ahead.

As for me, I still want a story where Twilight has to fight the Dragon Queen in a magic duel (over custody of Spike?), constantly having to counter the Dragon Queen's spells until she exerts so much effort that her horn breaks, then Celestia comes to the rescue, and then Twilight spends the next couple of episodes being unable to use magic until her horn regrows, including one episode where there are magic shenanigans and they have to turn to Trixie to deal with it, but during this time, she realizes she can channel magic through her wings and legs too.

 

[Cheerilee]

If you want an in-universe answer for MLP, I'd say that it's Celestia training Twilight to be her replacement. It works as a pretty good catch-all answer IMO.

Anyway, let's have a look at Celestia's role in the various big stories.

Friendship is Magic - Not present. Actually, where the hell was she?

Celestia was inside the Sun. After Nightmare Moon's defeat, Celestia's voice appears, then the Sun comes up (remember, only Celestia can do that), and Celestia appears to come directly out of the Sun.

It's been theorized that Celestia was imprisoned inside the Sun, just like Nightmare Moon was very clearly imprisoned inside the Moon, but it makes more sense for Celestia to have been hiding in the Sun. First up, there's no obvious mechanic for Celestia to have been captured/defeated and imprisoned. Nightmare Moon breaks out of jail, and literally two seconds later Celestia's confirmed to be "missing". Everyone immediately blames Nightmare Moon (except fourth-wall breaking Pinkie, who says she's hiding), but NM doesn't claim credit for Celestia's defeat, she lets fools believe whatever they want to believe. And Celestia was playing Twilight like a harp. She admitted that she saw the threat of NM coming a mile away, but knew that Twilight was the only one who could solve the problem, so she manipulated Twilight. NM could theoretically be smacked down by a greater power, but one of her issues was envy of Celestia, so a Celestia beat-down would only make the problem worse.

Celestia hid in the Sun, her own domain, knowing that Nightmare Moon wouldn't/couldn't raise the Sun, and would therefore never find Celestia.

Return of Harmony - Not present. She can't wield the Elements anymore, so I guess she just chills in Canterlot.

Yep. She knows she doesn't have the power to beat Discord, but she acts like a leader, giving Twilight all the info she needs, and then handing out the big guns. Until... oops, Discord swiped the big guns. Celestia is revealed to be absolutely powerless against the overwhelming power of Discord, so all she can do is sit back and hope that the Mane Six can win somehow.

And then, as DrForester mentioned, Celestia went and collected all of Twilight's "Friendship Reports" for the past year (remember, RoH was created as a season 1 episode), making use of an ever-present part of the show to drop a friendship bomb on Twilight (at Spike's expense) and remind Twilight of who she was, in order to help Twilight keep her head in a fight against an enemy who can literally take your mind away from you. Twilight and the Mane Six were the ones who did all the fighting, but when all was lost, Celestia was the one who subtly tipped the balance and put the Mane Six on the winning track. It was all downhill from there.

A Canterlot Wedding - Put out of commission by Chrysalis.

This one's an odd case, because it was written by Meghan, but overseen by Lauren, who then promptly quit.

Celestia got smacked down for the first time, but at least they had the sense to play it as something shocking and surprising.

Cadence got upgraded to Princess by Hasbro, for no good story reason (it works just fine with Cadence as a Unicorn), and against Lauren's wishes.

And this episode literally forgot that Luna existed. She was shoehorned in during the animation phase (which made for a good joke).

The Crystal Empire - Not present. Sitting it out to test Twilight.

Magical Mystery Cure - Not present. Sitting it out to test Twilight again.

Princess Twilight Sparkle - Not present. Captured by vines.

Twilight's Kingdom - Out of commission. Acting as a decoy to mislead Tirek.

The Cutie Map - Not present. Not really anything worthy of her time.

Doesn't strike me as that bad of a track record to be honest. The vines is clearly the dumbest as far as I'm concerned, but her absence in the first two aren't particularly hot either, and both of those occurred under Lauren Faust.

IMO, the Meghan side of the show is where Celestia really loses her shine. She doesn't have nearly enough gravitas or cleverness or depth. Luna might as well not exist (aside from the dream episodes, which were a neat new trick but are getting old), and it was a bad idea for Hasbro to promote Cadence to their level. Lauren apparently refused and lost, and Meghan apparently can't write "Princess Cadence" worth a darn, so Hasbro really should've let Lauren have her way. Fewer "Princess" characters, and keep a writer who knows how to handle the ones they already have.

Meghan has been abusing the "Twilight is Celestia's successor in-training" catch all, which Lauren created.

I think it's clear by now that Lauren was better at handling Celestia, at minimum (there are probably other ways in which Lauren was better). Which isn't exactly an insult to Meghan, because Lauren Faust is practically an industry legend. And I'm sure Meghan has her own strengths.

But Hasbro earned slightly more money in 2012 by sticking wings on pink toys and driving away Lauren Faust, and that's all that really matters.

 

[PaulloDEC]

IMO, the Meghan side of the show is where Celestia really loses her shine. She doesn't have nearly enough gravitas or cleverness or depth. Luna might as well not exist (aside from the dream episodes, which were a neat new trick but are getting old), and it was a bad idea for Hasbro to promote Cadence to their level.

I think certainly Faust was more interested in Celestia as a character than McCarthy is, and we're probably not giving writers like Mitch Larson their dues either. I'm still of the opinion that the only time McCarthy really goofed it with Celestia was the vine incident, but that's just me.

I think we'd all do well to remember that Lauren wrote exactly one story solo on Friendship is Magic; two if you include co-writing The Ticket Master with Amy Keating-Rogers. It's easy to keep a perfect score if you quit while you're on-top.

As for your next bit, Luna might as well not exist... except in the episodes where she plays a critical role? Remind me again of how many episodes during Lauren Faust's time on the show Luna features prominently? I make it one while she was fully involved (Friendship is Magic Part 2, if we're being generous and including Nightmare Moon as Luna) and one where she was on the periphery (Lesson Zero).

Lauren apparently refused and lost, and Meghan apparently can't write "Princess Cadence" worth a darn, so Hasbro really should've let Lauren have her way. Fewer "Princess" characters, and keep a writer who knows how to handle the ones they already have.

Once again, I feel like we're getting a little overdramatic up in here. What makes you say that Meghan can't write well for Cadance? I mean, besides (the universally beloved) Canterlot Wedding, how many stories even feature her prominently? The Crystal Empire two-parter and Three's a Crowd? I know the former is kind of a controversial one around here, but I thought the latter at least was a pretty fun story.

Meghan has been abusing the "Twilight is Celestia's successor in-training" catch all, which Lauren created.

So wait, when Lauren sets it up we're all onboard, but when Meghan continues to use it she's "absusing" the idea? What's the alternative?

I think it's clear by now that Lauren was better at handling Celestia, at minimum (there are probably other ways in which Lauren was better). Which isn't exactly an insult to Meghan, because Lauren Faust is practically an industry legend. And I'm sure Meghan has her own strengths.

I think this might be literally the nicest thing anyone besides me has ever said about Meghan McCarthy on this board.

 

[DrForester]

The problem is that all three of the other Princesses aren't really characters anymore. They're just their jobs.

Celestia is the deliverer of exposition. Gone entirely are the small character moments we get in the first two seasons just by her popping in now and then. Even her ballad in MMC is just singing exposition when you get right down to it, lovely as the song was.

Luna has been given a job, and despite these three appearances with the CMC, has been given squat in the character development department. One could even argue any development made in Luna Eclipsed has been forgotten.

Cadance is just the stereotypical "nice Disney Princess". She rules the Empire. No real effort has been made to give her any depth as a character beyond that.

And all three are demoted to damsels in distress every time a bad guy shows up. Which is really sad in a show that dedicated an entire episode of its first season to showing how stupid that trope is.

And I'm sure Meghan has her own strengths.

Her strengths were single episodes, not big epic, two part episodes. She did a lot of great episodes in s1 and s2. Even Canterlot Wedding viewed on its own and not the start of a repeating pattern is a pretty great story. She plays it safe and follows the same formula on all four, two parters she's done. Get rid of everyone but Twilight, and focus only on Twilight.

 

[PaulloDEC]

The problem is that all three of the other Princesses aren't really characters anymore. They're just their jobs.

Celestia is the deliverer of exposition. Gone entirely are the small character moments we get in the first two seasons just by her popping in now and then. Even her ballad in MMC is just singing exposition when you get right down to it, lovely as the song was.

Luna has been given a job, and despite these three appearances with the CMC, has been given squat in the character development department. One could even argue any development made in Luna Eclipsed has been forgotten.

Cadance is just the stereotypical "nice Disney Princess". She rules the Empire. No real effort has been made to give her any depth as a character beyond that.

And all three are demoted to damsels in distress every time a bad guy shows up. Which is really sad in a show that dedicated an entire episode of its first season to showing how stupid that trope is.

I can agree with most of that. You got me thinking back to Celestia in the phoenix story back in the first season; seeing her dealing with the various townspeople was great stuff. I'd love to see more scenes like that in the future.

Cadance actually comes off a little better than the other two in some ways. She's had nice scenes with others in the Equestria Games story, as well as "Three's A Crowd". Nothing hugely revealing, but better than nothing.

I don't exactly agree about the damsel stuff, though. At least four of the big stories have had one or more Princesses purposefully putting themselves out of the action, rather than being in any danger or distress.

EDIT: Oh my god I've just realised how badly I want an episode where several of the Princesses have to go on a diplomatic meeting to someplace in Equestria and everything is awful. Like, everything that could possibly go wrong does. That would be so much fun.

She plays it safe and follows the same formula on all four, two parters she's done. Get rid of everyone but Twilight, and focus only on Twilight.

That doesn't really happen in Princess Twilight Sparkle. Just sayin'.

 

[McNum]

I'd argue that Cadance got some character development out of Three's a Crowd. She is a very patient and nice pony, yes. But she is also, in her own way, a force of personality to keep up with Discord, something that Twilight at that point could not. She's also been teaching Twilight a few things about being the new princess on the block, most notably that whole "Take a deep breath, then act." thing. Which, admittedly, made Twilight a little more boring. Impulsive overreactions from Twilight are fun.

Amusingly, I would like to see Cadance actually do her job. Princess of Love and all that. What does that mean? Is she a behind the scenes matchmaker? Does she travel to settle matters of the heart? Or even, you just got an entire kingdom dumped at your feet to rule. How do you even start?

But really, there are three episodes I hope we get before the show ends.

1. The Cutie Mark Crusaders get their Cutie Marks
I mean, come on. Come on already. They've been yanked around so much, let them have it now. I want to see how they react to getting what they want... and then realize that they spent the last year focusing on that one thing that they don't know what to do next. Could be a fun episode about growing up and how that affects friendships.

2. Celestia and Luna get a day off
Cadance and Twilight conspire to give the two sisters something they haven't had in a millennium. A day (and night) off. The episode will follow Celestia and Luna as they have trouble just winding down and relaxing, and have an amusing B-plot of Twilight and Cadance trying to cover for them, with mixed success. In the end Celestia manages to reconnect a bit with the world, and her sister, and suggests to Twilight and Cadance (who are both totally worn down) that they'd have to do this again some day.

3. The Four Princess Problem
Big evil appears. All ponies on deck. The princesses fight to keep it in check while every other main character rallies up the ponies of Equestria to lend their power. Basically, friendship is magic on a national scale. The evil gets banished/destroyed/turned into a kitten, the day is saved, not due to any one pony, but due to all the ponies. And honestly, this could be the finale of the show. "Everypony is special, but together we are strongest."

I'm not sure if I expect any of these, but I could see them all working. I do hope, at least, when the time comes to end the show, that we get a grand finale.

 

[Cheerilee]

I think we'd all do well to remember that Lauren wrote exactly one story solo on Friendship is Magic; two if you include co-writing The Ticket Master with Amy Keating-Rogers. It's easy to keep a perfect score if you quit while you're on-top.

Lauren personally wrote all of season 1 before the show went into production, but then the show was changed from 15-minute episodes to 30-minute episodes at a late stage, so she had to bring in writers to re-write the show. She didn't quit after writing one good episode, she maintained a strong vision for the show (too strong, that's why she quit). Even in the last episode of season 2, one which Meghan wrote, Cadence was based on Lauren's childhood babysitter.

As for your next bit, Luna might as well not exist... except in the episodes where she plays a critical role? Remind me again of how many episodes during Lauren Faust's time on the show Luna features prominently? I make it one while she was fully involved (Friendship is Magic Part 2, if we're being generous and including Nightmare Moon as Luna) and one where she was on the periphery (Lesson Zero).

Luna was kind of an unknown in the pilot, and then sidelined-but-referenced in Return of Harmony. In Luna Eclipsed, two episodes later, she received significant character development, and a good reason was provided for her sidelining (she's recovering).

And apparently Lauren had significant plans for Luna and Celestia, which was part of why she got upset that Hasbro made Cadence a Princess, because a third Princess threw a monkeywrench into her Celestia/Luna plans.

Luna as a dream visitor is a nice addition to her character, but they seem to be milking that one point, and aside from that they've added nothing to her character, and I don't think she's even holding up to the character depth I saw in Luna Eclipsed. And I think they're missing opportunities that seem to demand a visit from Luna (like in Magic Duel, when Twilight encounters a Unicorn possessed by dark magic, but Celestia is unavailable (as usual)... so that leaves nobody. Just get Zecora to help.).

Once again, I feel like we're getting a little overdramatic up in here. What makes you say that Meghan can't write well for Cadance? I mean, besides (the universally beloved) Canterlot Wedding, how many stories even feature her prominently? The Crystal Empire two-parter and Three's a Crowd? I know the former is kind of a controversial one around here, but I thought the latter at least was a pretty fun story.

I highlighted "Princess Cadence", not just Cadence. I really liked Canterlot Wedding, but Cadence was written as a Unicorn in that one. Her next appearance in Crystal Empire was kind of bad, and I thought the "Princess" element of Three's a Crowd was kind of bad, while the personal interactions between Twilight and Cadence were much better. Cadence good, Princess Cadence bad. And I mostly don't like Twilight when they focus on her "Princess" part either. So I don't think Meghan has a talent for writing Princesses. IMO, she's not hitting the basic standard of "generic" Princesses, while Lauren made a point of not being satisfied with "generic" Princess, insisting that she had a responsibility to go beyond such tropes (she actively disliked generic Princess).

As an aside, Lauren also put effort into maintaining that these were cartoon ponies, not cartoon people. Meghan has let the ball drop on this (by comparison), so I'm not sure she even cares about the difference (although that could just be an indication of how hard it is to maintain that distinction).

So wait, when Lauren sets it up we're all onboard, but when Meghan continues to use it she's "absusing" the idea? What's the alternative?

What I meant was that Meghan hasn't added to Celestia's character. Twilight is Celestia's successor-in-training because Meghan saw that Lauren penned exactly that in the show's bible. But Meghan seems to be leaning on that idea as a crutch, as a way to sideline Celestia (Celestia let it happen, because it's good training for Twilight), while Lauren put more thought into Celestia (while similarly sidelining her, because she's too powerful and it's not her story).

I think this might be literally the nicest thing anyone besides me has ever said about Meghan McCarthy on this board.

Well she's working with a formula that Lauren set up, so it's difficult to see what she's doing better or worse than Lauren. And again, it's not like "worse than Lauren Faust" is an insult. Just being compared is a compliment.

- Meghan doesn't seem good at working with Celestia and/or Princesses
- Equestria Girls was probably a misstep
- Sunset Shimmer is my favorite new character since Trixie

 

[PaulloDEC]

I'd argue that Cadance got some character development out of Three's a Crowd. She is a very patient and nice pony, yes. But she is also, in her own way, a force of personality to keep up with Discord, something that Twilight at that point could not. She's also been teaching Twilight a few things about being the new princess on the block, most notably that whole "Take a deep breath, then act." thing. Which, admittedly, made Twilight a little more boring. Impulsive overreactions from Twilight are fun.

Yup, that's the sort of stuff I was thinking of too.

Amusingly, I would like to see Cadance actually do her job. Princess of Love and all that. What does that mean? Is she a behind the scenes matchmaker? Does she travel to settle matters of the heart? Or even, you just got an entire kingdom dumped at your feet to rule. How do you even start?

Well we know that the Crystal Empire is kinda love-powered in some sense, and it's pretty likely Cadance is linked with the previous Crystal Princess, Princess Amore. I kinda figured that Cadance's destiny was linked to the Crystal Empire specifically more than "love" in the general sense. Then again, has anyone actually said out loud in the show "Cadance, Princess of _______"?

But really, there are three episodes I hope we get before the show ends.

1. The Cutie Mark Crusaders get their Cutie Marks
I mean, come on. Come on already. They've been yanked around so much, let them have it now. I want to see how they react to getting what they want... and then realize that they spent the last year focusing on that one thing that they don't know what to do next. Could be a fun episode about growing up and how that affects friendships.

2. Celestia and Luna get a day off
Cadance and Twilight conspire to give the two sisters something they haven't had in a millennium. A day (and night) off. The episode will follow Celestia and Luna as they have trouble just winding down and relaxing, and have an amusing B-plot of Twilight and Cadance trying to cover for them, with mixed success. In the end Celestia manages to reconnect a bit with the world, and her sister, and suggests to Twilight and Cadance (who are both totally worn down) that they'd have to do this again some day.

3. The Four Princess Problem
Big evil appears. All ponies on deck. The princesses fight to keep it in check while every other main character rallies up the ponies of Equestria to lend their power. Basically, friendship is magic on a national scale. The evil gets banished/destroyed/turned into a kitten, the day is saved, not due to any one pony, but due to all the ponies. And honestly, this could be the finale of the show. "Everypony is special, but together we are strongest."

I'm not sure if I expect any of these, but I could see them all working. I do hope, at least, when the time comes to end the show, that we get a grand finale.

I feel like the first one simply has to be a given at this point. They've been hinting and edging towards a conclusion to that thread for so long now that I refuse to believe they aren't planning to close it off.

The second one I'm desperate to see. If it never happens, even I might turn against Meghan McCarthy.

The third one sounds badass. Like the ultimate "War comes to Equestria" type scenario. Not sure we'll ever have a story like that, but I'd sure as shit watch it.

Lauren personally wrote all of season 1 before the show went into production, but then the show was changed from 15-minute episodes to 30-minute episodes at a late stage, so she had to bring in writers to re-write the show.

*Snipped*

It's getting kinda late here, so I'll try to do these quickly.

1) Woah, for real? Faust had the entire first season already written? Do we have any more info on that time?

2) Agree on Dream Luna. It's worked well for the CMC, but they'll need a new angle soon.

3) I think I see what you're saying, though I'm not sure I agree. I think the characters do very well to avoid being anywhere close to your regular "Princess" stereotype. And I guess the horsiness may have dropped a little since the high point of first season, but I feel like the animators have taken up the slack plenty.

4) OK, don't disagree. Would like to see Celestia getting some more attention generally, and taking her character in some new directions would be cool.

5) I'm not sure I'd called EQG a misstep; I think Hasbro knew exactly what they were doing and the production team made the best of it. Overall I think it's been quite successful, from both a marketing and creative perspective.

 

[DrForester]

Well the movie will no doubt be a totally over the top storyline with a scope we haven't seen before.

 

[McNum]

Well we know that the Crystal Empire is kinda love-powered in some sense, and it's pretty likely Cadance is linked with the previous Crystal Princess, Princess Amore. I kinda figured that Cadance's destiny was linked to the Crystal Empire specifically more than "love" in the general sense. Then again, has anyone actually said out loud in the show "Cadance, Princess of _______"?

From Twilight's Kingdom:

Know that your time is coming soon
As the sun rises so does the moon
As love finds a way into every heart
You are a princess, you'll play your part​

​

Guess whose Cutie Mark appeared on that line. The title "Princess of Love" hasn't been stated outright, but she is as much the guardian of love as Celestia and Luna controls the sun and moon. I'd like to see what that means, really. Other than having a shield that protects against diseases.

Also that episode is such a great example of why wishing for something, anything to happen can be... unwise. Pinkie needs to sit Twilight down and give her a lesson in narrative causality. Or at least a checklist of "Things you don't say as the main character of a cartoon."

 

[Pandaman]

As amusing as it is to see these headcanon attempts to dig celestia out of a hole, some of you guys best stop hating on Cadence. Best princess doesn't need your shit.

 

[DrForester]

As amusing as it is to see these headcanon attempts to dig celestia out of a hole, some of you guys best stop hating on Cadence. Best princess doesn't need your shit.

We're not hating on Cadance so much as we're hating on how Cadance has been treated in the show.

She's only appeared in two issues of the comics, but those gave her far more characterization than the show had.

And everyone knows Celestia is the best princess.

 

[Pandaman]

We're not hating on Cadance so much as we're hating on how Cadance has been treated in the show.

You called her a damsel in distress when she has beaten 2 of the 3 villains she's come across! Cadence episodes have been 'remove whatever is holding cadence back = love annihilation beam', plus she's mature and easygoing while being able to maintain a healthy relationship.

Celestia is basically a background pony compared to Cadence.

also Cadences existence helps bring down the alicorns to the mortal plane and that's always a plus. Now instead of being negligent false gods they're merely flawed.

 

[McNum]

There's one thing Cadance has that none of the other princesses do. An onscreen kill. She took out Sombra, she shattered him and scattered his broken body across the land.

Because while love is kind, its wrath is terrifying. Do not make Cadance angry. You wouldn't like her when she's angry.

 

[Village]

Candace is cool. I wish her name wasn't.. Candace

Of course!

I have been to so many forums where suggestion happen quite often, they are also often quite horrible to the degree in which either the forum just dies or super slows down, or its culled.

So my idea was fairly simple, have celestia actually do a thing. Something magical and grand, as much as raising the sun, and moving the stars are increadible feats that luna and celestia do. They don't read as such, i guess there are some powers that don't read as powerful as they are due to various reasons. So something big.

As far as luna goes, my suggestion for her thing would be a cliche i rather enjoyed as a child. Mane 6 getting bopped, its looking bad, twilight is the only one that kind of has an idea whats happening. Luna walks in, transforms into something that possibly could be identified as nightmare moon, beats thing and dips. So this the cleche that got me as a kid to sit through weeks of tv shows that never addressed what happened. I'm trying to parce out what went down.

The reason I suggest twilight should be the only one who's sees this because it forces her to be a princess. What she may have seen, could be very serious, a very serious matter she may not wish to alarm everyone. She has to investigate by herself... and that seems interesting to me. She has to handle a problem. And maybe it addresses some luna stuff to.

Also * puts businessman tie on * You could make a Not nightmare moon that doesn't have the armor and isn't as evil. And isn't black but but an even dark blue and you can make toys out of it and sell it. It would probably do well, she's the edgy one.

*Takes the businessman tie off*

 

[Pandaman]

Candace is cool. I wish her name wasn't.. Candace

well, it technically isn't. 'Mi Amore Cadenza' is her name, Cadence is just a nickname.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Happy Mothers Day!

(from a Rarijack shipping blog, if you're wondering why Applejack's there)

 

[Village]

i forgot and her full name is worse.

 

[Cheerilee]

Candace is cool. I wish her name wasn't.. Candace

She created G1.

So my idea was fairly simple, have celestia actually do a thing. Something magical and grand, as much as raising the sun, and moving the stars are increadible feats that luna and celestia do. They don't read as such, i guess there are some powers that don't read as powerful as they are due to various reasons. So something big.

The word I look for with Celestia is "gravitas". It doesn't have to be big, it just has to feel big. If Celestia does a big thing but the show doesn't get the feeling just right, then it won't work, but if they get the feeling right, Celestia can do something very tiny and it feels big.

As far as luna goes, my suggestion for her thing would be a cliche i rather enjoyed as a child. Mane 6 getting bopped, its looking bad, twilight is the only one that kind of has an idea whats happening. Luna walks in, transforms into something that possibly could be identified as nightmare moon, beats thing and dips. So this the cleche that got me as a kid to sit through weeks of tv shows that never addressed what happened. I'm trying to parce out what went down.

The reason I suggest twilight should be the only one who's sees this because it forces her to be a princess. What she may have seen, could be very serious, a very serious matter she may not wish to alarm everyone. She has to investigate by herself... and that seems interesting to me. She has to handle a problem. And maybe it addresses some luna stuff to.

Also * puts businessman tie on * You could make a Not nightmare moon that doesn't have the armor and isn't as evil. And isn't black but but an even dark blue and you can make toys out of it and sell it. It would probably do well, she's the edgy one.

*Takes the businessman tie off*

Yeah, I like that sort of thing sometimes too. Where a conflicted character is trying to be good and suppress their inner-evil, but then a fight is unwinnable by the good guys, so the conflicted character takes one for the team and resorts to using evil in the fight for good. It's a setback for the conflicted character on their path to becoming a hero, but characters need ups and downs, and the evil setback is heroic in of itself, both as a heroic feat and a heroic sacrifice.

 

[Village]

I would imagine in this scenario in the end she would just accept that nightmare moon is also her and she would kind of be " not " nightmare moon all the time. Accepting your mistakes and moving on is a good lesson to learn.

Its a thing I think they should have done with trixie more.

 

[PaulloDEC]

From Twilight's Kingdom:

Know that your time is coming soon
As the sun rises so does the moon
As love finds a way into every heart
You are a princess, you'll play your part​

​

Guess whose Cutie Mark appeared on that line. The title "Princess of Love" hasn't been stated outright, but she is as much the guardian of love as Celestia and Luna controls the sun and moon. I'd like to see what that means, really. Other than having a shield that protects against diseases.

I did wonder if you'd cite that song, and to be fair it's probably the most direct reference we have. I like that Cadance's line mentions both "love" and "heart", both of which are significant to her cutie mark and her character.

As amusing as it is to see these headcanon attempts to dig celestia out of a hole, some of you guys best stop hating on Cadence. Best princess doesn't need your shit.

There's one thing Cadance has that none of the other princesses do. An onscreen kill. She took out Sombra, she shattered him and scattered his broken body across the land.

Because while love is kind, its wrath is terrifying. Do not make Cadance angry. You wouldn't like her when she's angry.

I like you two.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Discord Funko statue appeared in an SNL sketch

I suppose it works well as a way to sneak in MLP without having any apparent connection to it.

 

[SigmasonicX]

ED interview with Jeremy Whitley. His other works sound pretty interesting.

 

[McNum]

I did wonder if you'd cite that song, and to be fair it's probably the most direct reference we have. I like that Cadance's line mentions both "love" and "heart", both of which are significant to her cutie mark and her character.

Yeah, it's not stated very clearly in the show, the only other example of her doing something directly love related is in a flashback in A Canterlot Wedding where she uses her magic to play matchmaker, more or less.

The way I'm reading Cadance is that, while she probably is a genuine nice, patient, calm, and allround pleasant pony to be around, she does have that undercurrent of "because she chose to and can afford that luxury." She likes to be nice, she likes letting ponies learn from her example... and she does not back down if challenged. To the point where she will take extreme measures to defend her friends, family, and kingdom.

And that's why, should you be an evil invader, you should go for Canterlot. Celestia and to some extent Luna are both known to show mercy. Cadance... is not. She may, out of the kindness of her heart give you a chance to run or surrender. One chance. After that, you'll be removed with as much force as is required to do so.

Of course, this headcanon interpretation makes Three's a Crowd funny. Cadance is still being her sweet, kind and patient self in the face of Discord. Apparently, she still thinks she can afford to there. And, well, it worked out pretty well.

 

[PaulloDEC]

ED interview with Jeremy Whitley. His other works sound pretty interesting.

Nice one, will have a read a bit later.

Yeah, it's not stated very clearly in the show, the only other example of her doing something directly love related is in a flashback in A Canterlot Wedding where she uses her magic to play matchmaker, more or less.

The way I'm reading Cadance is that, while she probably is a genuine nice, patient, calm, and allround pleasant pony to be around, she does have that undercurrent of "because she chose to and can afford that luxury." She likes to be nice, she likes letting ponies learn from her example... and she does not back down if challenged. To the point where she will take extreme measures to defend her friends, family, and kingdom.

And that's why, should you be an evil invader, you should go for Canterlot. Celestia and to some extent Luna are both known to show mercy. Cadance... is not. She may, out of the kindness of her heart give you a chance to run or surrender. One chance. After that, you'll be removed with as much force as is required to do so.

Of course, this headcanon interpretation makes Three's a Crowd funny. Cadance is still being her sweet, kind and patient self in the face of Discord. Apparently, she still thinks she can afford to there. And, well, it worked out pretty well.

I like that angle. In a lot of ways Cadance is the least "special" of the four Princesses. She's the only one of the four not to get name-checked (well, cutie mark checked) on the Tree of Harmony and she's the only one not to be born as a magic user, beyond the in-built magic that Pegasi have. I could believe she'd have a bit more of a "ground level" approach when it came to dealing with villains than some of the more godlike characters in the canon.

As for Discord, I'd like to think that Celestia sent out a memo reminding everyone that he was a bit of a work-in-progress, and please don't kill him if possible.

 

[draetenth]

...she's the only one not to be born as a magic user...

Well, iirc Lauren Faust intended Cadence to be a regular Unicorn so she technically was... Hasbro made her into an Alicorn for the wedding. I think it's the comics that state Cadance was a Pegasus before her ascension, but you could say that Faust's word is still law (overruling the comics) and that Cadance was a Unicorn before her ascension.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Candace is cool. I wish her name wasn't.. Candace

well, it technically isn't. 'Mi Amore Cadenza' is her name, Cadence is just a nickname.

Actually, you're both wrong. It's Cadance, like a pace or rhythm (cadence), but instead spelled with an "a".

Well, iirc Lauren Faust intended Cadence to be a regular Unicorn so she technically was... Hasbro made her into an Alicorn for the wedding

I think Lauren has restrained herself from publicly stating what she intended her "race" to be, she only said that she was surprised to see what race she ended up as when the episode aired, knowing that was not her plan. Either she exaggerated her reaction for reasons, or "Cadance=Alicorn" probably wasn't the hill she went to die on.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Well, iirc Lauren Faust intended Cadence to be a regular Unicorn so she technically was... Hasbro made her into an Alicorn for the wedding. I think it's the comics that state Cadance was a Pegasus before her ascension, but you could say that Faust's word is still law (overruling the comics) and that Cadance was a Unicorn before her ascension.

Eh, I don't tend to rank behind-the-scenes chatter very highly in terms of canon. My attitude is that the only true canon is what is shown or said in official materials, i.e. show, comics, books, etc.

As for Cadance's original race(?), I believe the Pegasus stuff came from her chapter book, "The Crystal Heart Spell" iirc.

Actually, you're both wrong. It's Cadance, like a pace or rhythm (cadence), but instead spelled with an "a".

Woo! Team "knows how to spell Cadance".

I think Lauren has restrained herself from publicly stating what she intended her "race" to be, she only said that she was surprised to see what race she ended up as when the episode aired, knowing that was not her plan. Either she exaggerated her reaction for reasons, or "Cadance=Alicorn" probably wasn't the hill she went to die on.

Ultimately I feel that Lauren's chance to say what was what expired when she left the show. Things could get messy with two showrunners trying to define things simultaneously.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Woo! Team "knows how to spell Cadance".

Yeah, just me being pedantic Mr. Know-It-All, as usual. Sorry, everyone.

Ultimately I feel that Lauren's chance to say what was what expired when she left the show. Things could get messy with two showrunners trying to define things simultaneously.

The show was Lauren's baby. As such, I feel like there were two shows: Lauren's (Hasbro-influenced) take on MLP, and the torch being respectfully babied along by different people with heavier Hasbro mandates. The latter isn't a bad show by any stretch, but what Lauren said definitely still "counts" to me as a fan of her vision. It just doesn't officially apply to Seasons ~2.5+.

Also, I'm pretty sure Lauren (as she's said before) doesn't go into much detail on "how she'd have done it" because she respects the current Hasbro-approved team and doesn't want to undermine them, or at least doesn't want to make waves.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Yeah, just me being pedantic Mr. Know-It-All, as usual. Sorry, everyone.

It's okay, Cadance deserves correct spelling.

The show was Lauren's baby. As such, I feel like there were two shows: Lauren's (Hasbro-influenced) take on MLP, and the torch being respectfully babied along by different people with heavier Hasbro mandates. The latter isn't a bad show by any stretch, but what Lauren said definitely still "counts" to me as a fan of her vision. It just doesn't officially apply to Seasons ~2.5+.

Also, I'm pretty sure Lauren (as she's said before) doesn't go into much detail on "how she'd have done it" because she respects the current Hasbro-approved team and doesn't want to undermine them, or at least doesn't want to make waves.

I've always thought of it as just the one show; corporate meddling is part-and-parcel of the MLP brand now, just as it always was. I don't really see the point in trying to divide it up.

And to be clear, I don't mean to discredit Faust's vision for the show at all; my attitude extends to all show-runners, past and future. If it ain't in official media, it ain't canon to me.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I feel that the details revealed about the way things were before Faust left should only be taken as "canon" until something "more canon" contradicts it. Though Faust may have planned for Cadance to be a unicorn (and probably for her name to be spelled Cadence, since the 'a' is clearly just for trademark purposes), one of the actual published books revealed that she was originally a pegasus. And once the show contradicts that, we'll go with what the show says.

 

[Lupin the Third]

IMHO, the show doesn't take its own canon seriously enough for the "Hasbro canon" to matter. Random seasons? Weird time gaps? Changing character traits from one episode to another? It's a TV-Y comedy series with adventure elements not to be taken seriously, and I still enjoy the heck out of it. But I can't help but wonder how different it would be now if Lauren were still running the show, or how things would change if she returned.

(Also, I generally dislike "canon" arguments because no franchise is perfect at maintaining one anyway.)

 

[SigmasonicX]

Just read Friends Forever #16, and it was pretty fun and cute. I was unsure about the comic having a Velma like pony, since the alternate cover first showing her made it seem like Diamond Tiara just randomly had one around, but having Diamond hire a detective for a scavenger hunt made sense and Prancy Drew was a pretty fun character. I love that this universe now has a random kid detective who Twilight is a fan of. Her scene with Pinkie was also pretty amusing. The story did a good job making Diamond and Silver mean without having it get aggravating, although I did feel it was a bit out of character for them to actually know enough about the town residents to solve the clues. I did think it was cheap how the Cutie Mark Crusaders kept accidentally getting back on track, but I suppose it's fine because

Spoiler

they didn't win the contest in the end

.

The art was generally good, besides the fact that the adult ponies are way too tall compared to the fillies. Also, <snob voice>the Sailor Scouts have clearly already appeared as adults in previous issues, so there's no way they could be fillies for this story. I demand continuity from my cameos!</snob voice>

 

[DrForester]

Just read Friends Forever #16, and it was pretty fun and cute. I was unsure about the comic having a Velma like pony, since the alternate cover first showing her made it seem like Diamond Tiara just randomly had one around, but having Diamond hire a detective for a scavenger hunt made sense and Prancy Drew was a pretty fun character. I love that this universe now has a random kid detective who Twilight is a fan of. Her scene with Pinkie was also pretty amusing. The story did a good job making Diamond and Silver mean without having it get aggravating, although I did feel it was a bit out of character for them to actually know enough about the town residents to solve the clues. I did think it was cheap how the Cutie Mark Crusaders kept accidentally getting back on track, but I suppose it's fine because

Spoiler

they didn't win the contest in the end

.

The art was generally good, besides the fact that the adult ponies are way too tall compared to the fillies. Also, <snob voice>the Sailor Scouts have clearly already appeared as adults in previous issues, so there's no way they could be fillies for this story. I demand continuity from my cameos!</snob voice>

Has Sailor Moon/Mercury/Jupiter appeared in the comics before? I know the Celestia Micro had a bunch of the other Sailors, but not those three (Chibiusa, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto if I remember right).

 

[SigmasonicX]

Has Sailor Moon/Mercury/Jupiter appeared in the comics before? I know the Celestia Micro had a bunch of the other Sailors, but not those three (Chibiusa, Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto if I remember right).

They had previously appeared in the Nightmare Rarity arc, which had the same artist.

 

[PaulloDEC]

I haven't read the latest comic yet, so I'll have to come back to this conversation.

In the meantime, Fluttershy: