My Metal Gear Solid 3 review (Spoilers)

P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Well, I just completed the game now and I am really, really disappointed.........that the game had to end. Words cannot describe how much I loved this game and I can easily say this is the best game I have ever played.

Let me start with the gameplay. When I first started playing I got very fustrated. I couldn't get used to shooting and I was rubbish at CQC, so when I came to the red house I was about to die of fustration.

After a few hours, I became used to the controls and the gameplay and soon found out the miracle of CQC. This has to be the best innovation in the MGS series yet. I found it much easier to fight using CQC rather than using guns. I could get past any amount of guards with losing very little health. I spent hours just getting alert and trying to go through as many guards as I could with CQC. Also, during indoor areas, I was really bad at hiding, so I would just use CQC to get past everyone.

Camo was another great thing that helped make the game much better, although it was useless for me in indoor areas.

At first, I found the game very annoying without the Radar, I just couldn't seem to do anything, but after a while, you feel that the game plays so much better without a radar. I have to admit I felt that the game had a very slow pace, but I soon got over that.

The sound and Graphics were amazing. The amount of detail in graphics was mind blowing. MGS3 has one of the best graphics in any game. The music was really good and I liked the james Bond inspired themes.

There were some characters I loved and some I hated. I couldn't stand The Pain, The Sorrow or The Fear, but I liked The Fury, The End and The Boss. I thought Volgin was a very cool character and I also liked Ocelots younger form.

Some of the boss battles were the best I've ever done, but the one that stood out the most was The End. There has never been a boss battle as good as that and there never will be. That was probably the most fascinating part of the game. The battle against Ocelot kicked so much ass too. The pains battle was boring, the fear was ok, the fury was good. Volgins battle was really good if you include everytghing you fought during his battle.

My comclusion: best game ever

I didnt mention story because there was a lot of it I didnt understand:

Who exactly are the Philosophers? From what I understod, they are a group of people from the USA, USSR and China who put together a lot of money and resources (such as weapons, armies and the cobras), but at the end of the game, it says that the philosophers changed their name to the Patriots.

Did Volgin have all of the Philosophers legacy?

Who was Ocelot working for?
 
Synbios459 said:
You haven't played MGS2 have you:)
Click to expand...

I am thinking the same exact thing...

Who is Ocelot working for now all of a sudden, who and what are the patriots and the ending of MGS2 now does not make any sense and or is still unanswered!
 
I agree with pretty much all of your review, though I thought The Sorrow was an awsome character and I consider Snake's encounter with him face to face to be one of the many high points of the game.

About your story questions:

1.
I think you're assessment of the Philosphers is about right. They were a secret organization whose goal was to protect the interests of the 3 great powers. But they slowly became corrupted, becoming more interested in starting wars and conflicts than protecting their nation's interests. They adopt the name Patriots but seems to be just a masqurade considering their real intentions.

2.
According to the game it seemed like Volgin had inherited the entire "Legacy" through the actions of his father.

3.
Ocelot is actually an agent of the U.S. sent to infiltrate Volgin's ranks and secure the Legacy for America. At the end of the credits he calls up the Director of the CIA to give him a status report. This fits in with what Ocelot said in MGS2, about selling Russia out during the Cold War.
 
I'm at The Fury and I FUCKING HATE THIS FIGHT. It's pissing me the hell off. I don't want to sneak up on his fire ass, I just want to unload some fucking shotgun shells in his shittyass space suit and MOVE THE FUCK ON.
 
Answer to story questions

the Patriots are the the US philosophers. They changed their name once they got control of the Philosophers legacy. Yes, Ocelot was a US CIA agent, but his true loyalties lied with The United States Philosophers. Ocelot was sent by the Patriots to retrieve the Philosophers Legacy for the American Patriots, just as EVA was sent by the Chinese Philosophers to retrieve the legacy for them. Ocelots father, was the person who was in change of the Philosophers money, and after the chaos that insued after WW2, Volgins father laundered the money and claimed it as his own. He then died and past it onto Volgin.
 
I'm at The Fury and I FUCKING HATE THIS FIGHT. It's pissing me the hell off. I don't want to sneak up on his fire ass, I just want to unload some fucking shotgun shells in his shittyass space suit and MOVE THE FUCK ON.
Click to expand...

I actually thought the fight with The Fury was a little too easy, especially since he seemed like an interesting character. I stayed near the top area (away from the ledge and most exploding barrels) and just ran East/West doing hit and run attacks with the MK22. While the fire effects of the Fury's weapon look devistating he really doesn't do much damage and putting out any flames is solved by either a couple of rolls or switching camo. Just make sure you get your shots in and you'll bring him down.
 
I've played MGS2 loads of times, I just didnt really understand.

The Patriots are an organisation that control America secretly, but in MGS3, it says that the Philosophers are organisations from China, USSR and the USA who contributed to putting resources and money to fight the war. At the end of MGS3, it says that the Philosophers changed their name to the Patriots. I'm sure that doesnt mean that the people that control America are the philosophers from China and USSR. I think that The group of people that changed their name to the Patriots are just the philosophers from the USA, which would make sense.

Now, Correct me if I am wrong, but in MGS2, We are told that Solidus was in cahrge of the MG Rex project. if that is the case, how did he get his hands on the designs that Ocelot stole off Glanin?

We're also told that ocleot gave a fake copy of the film to Eva. Is that a fake film of the Shagohod data or the Philosophers legacy?
 
Gonaria said:
Answer to story questions

the Patriots are the the US philosophers. They changed their name once they got control of the Philosophers legacy. Yes, Ocelot was a US CIA agent, but his true loyalties lied with The United States Philosophers. Ocelot was sent by the Patriots to retrieve the Philosophers Legacy for the American Patriots, just as EVA was sent by the Chinese Philosophers to retrieve the legacy for them. Ocelots father, was the person who was in change of the Philosophers money, and after the chaos that insued after WW2, Volgins father laundered the money and claimed it as his own. He then died and past it onto Volgin.
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Thats what I though. Thanks a lot anyway.

The fight against The Fury was the easiest one. Just use the M37 when you find him from the front or back then just run away from the fire as fast as you can.
 
Now, Correct me if I am wrong, but in MGS2, We are told that Solidus was in cahrge of the MG Rex project. if that is the case, how did he get his hands on the designs that Ocelot stole off Glanin?
Click to expand...

Yeah, basically ignored the whole
"Grainin developed the blue prints for Metal Gear Rex revelation"
because it flies in the face of Metal Gear cannon. Dr. Petrovich developed the first Metal Gear and the Metal Gear D that were at Outer Heaven and Zanzibar.

Metal Gear Rex was developed entirely by the U.S., though based on Petrovich's designs.
It is totally implausible to suggest that Granin would be able to design Metal Gear Rex "to the letter" in the 1960's, incorporating technology such as Rex's railgun.

We're also told that ocleot gave a fake copy of the film to Eva. Is that a fake film of the Shagohod data or the Philosophers legacy?
Click to expand...

The fake data was about the location of the Legacy.
 
KilledByBill said:
Yeah, basically ignored the whole
"Grainin developed the blue prints for Metal Gear Rex revelation"
because it flies in the face of Metal Gear cannon. Dr. Petrovich developed the first Metal Gear and the Metal Gear D that were at Outer Heaven and Zanzibar.

Metal Gear Rex was developed entirely by the U.S., though based on Petrovich's designs.
It is totally implausible to suggest that Granin would be able to design Metal Gear Rex "to the letter" in the 1960's, incorporating technology such as Rex's railgun.



The fake data was about the location of the Legacy.
Click to expand...

Kojima did mention once that the plot to MGS3 would change something's thats already been said in the series. One thing I found interesting about the Granin scene was that at one point Snake looks at a picture of Granin with a guy that has a very strong resemblance to Otacon.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Kojima did mention once that the plot to MGS3 would change something's thats already been said in the series. One thing I found interesting about the Granin scene was that at one point Snake looks at a picture of Granin with a guy that has a very strong resemblance to Otacon.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remember that picture. i though it could have been Otacons dad or granddad since Otacon mentioned that his family have worked on weapons just like him.

I also want to say that this game makes MGS1 and 2 look like shite (I really can't believe i said that). They were both very good games, but they both lack that special something MGS3 has.

From now on, I won't trust gamespot reviews. they got the review so wrong. MGS3 deserved a 10, there want a fault in the game. Its an insult that they give the gameplay only an 8 and rate Jak II's graphics higher than MGS3's
 
This game is definitely a sleeper. I think GTA:SA is the best game released this year, but MGS3 comes very close. It's one great apology for MGS2.
 
I'm not quite sold on this yet, it can be very frustrating as you say but since I'm crap without radar and solid hiding spots, I forced my way through the game. I'm always getting caught, so unlike MGS and MGS2 where I felt compelled to explore the environment, a lot of the time I feel I'm missing out on large portions because I'm just running as quickly as I can to the next possible exit.

I miss the crazy plot twists from MGS2 as well, MGS3 is a bit too predictable.
 
Oh! My Car! said:
I'm not quite sold on this yet, it can be very frustrating as you say but since I'm crap without radar and solid hiding spots, I forced my way through the game. I'm always getting caught, so unlike MGS and MGS2 where I felt compelled to explore the environment, a lot of the time I feel I'm missing out on large portions because I'm just running as quickly as I can to the next possible exit.

I miss the crazy plot twists from MGS2 as well, MGS3 is a bit too predictable.
Click to expand...

couldn´t have said it better.. I also just seem to run for the next exit as fast as possible. I get no feeling that i want to explore.. the camera destroys that aspect.. with the radar the camerasystem worked but without it the game feels REALLY broken..
 
Oh! My Car! said:
I'm not quite sold on this yet, it can be very frustrating as you say but since I'm crap without radar and solid hiding spots, I forced my way through the game. I'm always getting caught, so unlike MGS and MGS2 where I felt compelled to explore the environment, a lot of the time I feel I'm missing out on large portions because I'm just running as quickly as I can to the next possible exit.

I miss the crazy plot twists from MGS2 as well, MGS3 is a bit too predictable.
Click to expand...

Take advantage of all the gadgets (APS, Active Sonar, Motion Detector) they give you to keep track of the gaurds. That way you can explore everything alot easier without worrying about being caught.
 
Oh! My Car! said:
I'm not quite sold on this yet, it can be very frustrating as you say but since I'm crap without radar and solid hiding spots, I forced my way through the game. I'm always getting caught, so unlike MGS and MGS2 where I felt compelled to explore the environment, a lot of the time I feel I'm missing out on large portions because I'm just running as quickly as I can to the next possible exit.

I miss the crazy plot twists from MGS2 as well, MGS3 is a bit too predictable.
Click to expand...

I understand how some people might get frustrated with no radar. I'm far from being an expert when it comes to stealth games, and I was very worried that MGS3 would become irritating because of the lack of a normal radar this time around. But it's all about practice really. And patience. You have to take your time, crawl a lot, and use your gadgets to your advantage. The motion detector, the sonar radar, and the thermal goggles in FPV.

If you just rush through it, you have missed the whole point with sneaking. For the first time in an MGS game, it actually feels like you have to sneak your way past guards (I never chose to play without radar in MGS and MGS2). You can't just leave the area to turn off the alert anymore. Learn to know the game, give it some time, and you'll be rewarded with a much better experience.

And about the lack of crazy plot twists...I think the story itself is interesting enough. It's like Kojima dropped his super-serious attitude and loosened up a bit for this game...and I can imagine him having fun adding all those crazy details (like all the Raiden references). :lol
 
I found it quite easy to explore every area pretty thoroughly. I killed all guards and backup patrols in every area I was in, giving me total freedom to explore. I didn't use the sonar, radar or any other locating gadget at any point. Just used FPV a lot. 500+ kills in the end!
 
Docpan said:
I'm at The Fury and I FUCKING HATE THIS FIGHT. It's pissing me the hell off. I don't want to sneak up on his fire ass, I just want to unload some fucking shotgun shells in his shittyass space suit and MOVE THE FUCK ON.
Click to expand...

That fight was easy as fuck. Very disappointing, cause he looks SO cool...maybe in harder modes it gets better. Just RPG him to hell.
 
I'm still in the first section of the game - I hate how it takes FOREVER for the guards to kill you if you get caught. And there's no load game option either. What's the damn shortcut key to restart the PS2?
 
Yes, you gotta hold them for more than a sec. If you accidentally trigger the Codec screen, just repeat it from there.

I did it when I wanted to kill The End using the cheap quick, 5 second tactic, but missed him the first 2 times.
 
Just a few more questions here.

Did The Boss say that she is a member of the Philosphers/Patriots, or is she just a spy like Ocelot?

At the end of MGS2, Otacon says that the Patriots died 100 years ago. Was that ignored in this game or was there a bit that I missed out?
 
psycho_snake said:
Just a few more questions here.

Did The Boss say that she is a member of the Philosphers/Patriots, or is she just a spy like Ocelot?

At the end of MGS2, Otacon says that the Patriots died 100 years ago. Was that ignored in this game or was there a bit that I missed out?
Click to expand...

The Boss's father was one of the original Philosophers/Patriots, so she was a "member" by default and also an instructor.

I think Otacon's 100 year comment was an estimate, if you go by MGS3, they actually ceased to exist around 1930, so from 1930 to 2007 there's about 70+ years.
 
Kojima did mention once that the plot to MGS3 would change something's thats already been said in the series. One thing I found interesting about the Granin scene was that at one point Snake looks at a picture of Granin with a guy that has a very strong resemblance to Otacon.
Click to expand...

I guess that could be what Kojima meant but it still doesn't make any sense. In MGS a big part of the story focused on what made MG Rex such a unique and destablizing weapon
(the Railgun, the new type of nuclear warhead designed to be fired like a bullet, etc.) things that Granin would have no way of foreseeing.
 
im gonna ask some simple, non-story spoilerific questions.
how are the environments? is it just the forest or are there different environments?
are the environments designed well?
ie, are they an improvement over the extremely simple hexagonal structure like the strut in mgs2 where you just went from A to F?
how many boss battles, and are they designed well? for instance, i liked the fatman fight, the fight against the vampire dude and the metal gear ray fight in MGS2, but the fight at the bridge against the jet and the last battle was beyond bad as far as i was concerned. and the first battle vs the chic was decent, just wished the area was more expansive.
is the 45 minute cutscene actually a 45 minute cutscene? jesus christ...
also are the scripted sequences diverse and fun? i really liked the sniper sequence (saving the girl) in MGS2, but there werent more sequences like that in the game which was disaapointing. underwater sequence was OK, graphics were great there, but in general i dont like underwater stuff because i lose my way quickly.
 
nitewulf said:
im gonna ask some simple, non-story spoilerific questions.
how are the environments? is it just the forest or are there different environments?
Click to expand...

A good variety, not just forest. Although I'm loving the forest environments the most personally.

nitewulf said:
are the environments designed well?
ie, are they an improvement over the extremely simple hexagonal structure like the strut in mgs2 where you just went from A to F?
Click to expand...

VERY improved. They're definitely not as stale and unimaginative as in MGS2 IMO.


nitewulf said:
how many boss battles, and are they designed well?
Click to expand...

Let's just put it like this. It feels like there are more boss battles in this game than in any other MGS game before it. And so far (I've beaten about 4 or 5) they all ROCK. They're one of the best parts with the game, and miles ahead of the MGS2 bosses as far as I'm concerned.
 
The enviroments are by far the best in the series. They include(im just going to name the different locals)
Jungle, caves, rivers, A mountanous region, forest, and a gigantic base.

Yes, a big improvement. Even though i loved mgs2, i thought that the big shell was a really really crappy location. It was just to damn boring. However, this is complete opposite of mgs2.

there are about 8 boss battles depending on how you look at things, and 4 of those battles are among the best and most memorable boss battles ive ever played. The two weakest boss battles i still think were fun to play. From a gameplay perspective, the bosses in mgs3 are by far the best. If you wanted a huge enviroment to fight a boss battle you get one.
In one boss battle the area you get to fight in is 3 areas, and each individual area is huge.

The game is cutscene heavey during the first 3 hours and the last 4 hours. There is very little use of the codec as well, outside of the begining of the game. However, this does have the highest gameplay/total game time ratio of any mgs.

I could be wrong but, i dont think that their were to many scripted events like that. I remember a few, but not a whole lot.
 
how are the environments? is it just the forest or are there different environments?
Click to expand...

The environments are very diverse. There's forests, swamps, bases, lakes, caves, and mountains that I can think of off the top of my head. I'd say that the forest areas are the most common but many of them have a very different look from one another. Also there are day/night time shifts that occur periodically making for quite a different experience.

re the environments designed well?
ie, are they an improvement over the extremely simple hexagonal structure like the strut in mgs2 where you just went from A to F?
Click to expand...

VERY well designed. MGS1 & MGS2 environments are down right boring in comparison. Everything outdoors has a very organic feel to it and your constantly dealing with varying elevations, brush, terain (mud, dirt, grass), running water, etc. I'll put it this way, nothing feels repetative.

how many boss battles, and are they designed well?
Click to expand...
I couldn't give you an exact number, I lost count. But that should tell you something though. :) For the most part the boss battles are very original and some are easily the best of the series. The first few are rather easy on normal difficulty but the challenge ramps up later in the game.

s the 45 minute cutscene actually a 45 minute cutscene?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it was actually 45 mins long but I recommnend skipping the actual briefings (you'll know them when you see them, grainy footage of Snake talking with Major Tom)
for Virtuous Mission and Operation Snake Eater
because you really don't need to hear the full thing to understand your mission and you can watch them outside of the game at your lesuire anyway(like in MGS1 and The Twin Snakes). The game does start off a bit slowly but after that the cutscenses are well spaced out with gameplay until you beat the game(the epologue is where you'll get most of the drawn out movies).

also are the scripted sequences diverse and fun?
Click to expand...

There aren't too many but some of them are amazing. The final few hours of MGS3 are some of the most action packed in any game, EVER.
 
I finished mgs3 last nite i have one big question:

SO wtf is up with Big Boss? Was he really the asshole he was in MG or was he set up by the patriots? I dont remember much about mg but i remember Big BOss basically setting up solid Snake and then they fought to the death.
 
Doc Holliday said:
SO wtf is up with Big Boss? Was he really the asshole he was in MG or was he set up by the patriots? I dont remember much about mg but i remember Big BOss basically setting up solid Snake and then they fought to the death.
Click to expand...

Kojima obviously didn't answer enough of the question, but the gist of it is
that this event shaped Big Boss into a guy who has little reason to trust his own government (as they sacrificed The Boss, some nukes and more just to get their hands on some money). From his perspective, "Outer Heaven" and Metal Gear then becomes an ideal way to create a nation free from the hand of the Patriots.

Solidus basically does the same thing in MGS2, but is brazen enough to try and take New York City instead of a foreign land.

The Les Enfants Terrible project can also be looked at as a way to continue unstabilizing the Patriots, by doing what the Boss couldn't - provide more Snakes.

As for the Rex details, well, I admit the "images" provided were clearly for the audience, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to explain such an early Rex plan using a slide launcher instead of an actual railgun.

And my memories are a bit hazy, but didn't either Rex or Ray come from russian designs? Ocelot is quick to mention about Ray being stolen in the first half of MGS2.
 
As for the Rex details, well, I admit the "images" provided were clearly for the audience, but it probably wouldn't be too hard to explain such an early Rex plan using a slide launcher instead of an actual railgun.

And my memories are a bit hazy, but didn't either Rex or Ray come from russian designs? Ocelot is quick to mention about Ray being stolen in the first half of MGS2.
Click to expand...

In MGS2 Col. Gurlukvich says that "even the technology that gave birth to these weapons is Russian, developed by us!" He is not refering to Ray or Rex just Metal Gears in general. I've got no issue with that. IMO, Russia is a perfectly natural place for such a weapon to be created considering the country's vast and diverse terrain, large military/industrial complex, and relience on a nuclear arsenal.
My only problem is the implication that Granin somehow specifically designed Metal Gear Rex as opposed to "simply" being one of the fathers of Metal Gear technology.
Rex was, at earliest, a 3rd generation machine far more advanced than the Metal Gear commisioned at Outer Heaven and even the Metal Gear D from Zanzibar.
If Kojima was just making a nod to series veterans then I think he choose the wrong MG to showcase with Granin.

I'll be the first to admit this is nitpicking but it was one of the few moments in the game that seemed jarringly out of place.
 
Dez said:
I'm still in the first section of the game - I hate how it takes FOREVER for the guards to kill you if you get caught. And there's no load game option either. What's the damn shortcut key to restart the PS2?
Click to expand...

Just eat the fake death pill. Problem solved.
 
KilledByBill said:
I'll be the first to admit this is nitpicking but it was one of the few moments in the game that seemed jarringly out of place.
Click to expand...

Another weird bit about it, though - Sigint, at one point in the game, actually mentions Otacon's grandfather and his supposedly kooky Metal Gear plan (although he obviously doesn't use the term Metal Gear), and then surprise surprise, we see him in a photo with Granin in Granin's office.

If that's the case, well, Metal Gear / D could be based on the Shagohod design, while Rex has multiple origin points. It's pretty obvious Kojima is somewhat uncomfortable about his pre-solid works, so maybe he's mixing some new bits into the backstory (as with the Patriots, a detail that obviously drove Big Boss) - maybe Petrovich had some technical data to use beside his own head?
 
Here's my take on the entire Metal Gear issue.

I think that Granin's designs were definitely Rex. Maybe not with the railgun and such but far beyond Metal Gear and Metal Gear D. So Ocelot took the Rex designs and gave them to the US government, but the technology level just wasn't anywhere close to making it a reality.

Meanwhile, Big Boss forms Outer Heaven and gets Petrovich involved in helping him design a weapon, influenced by his meeting with Granin, he wants a "two-legged walking tank" and calls it Metal Gear.

After the fall of Zanzibar Land, the technology from those experiences finally made it possible for the US government to green light the Rex project which they've been sitting on for decades. Ironically because Big Boss called the prototypes Metal Gear, Rex was also called a Metal Gear, and Big Boss got the name from Granin who..... provided the initial specs for Rex!

See it all makes sense if you think about it, Kojima's mad but he's not too shabby in covering his own tracks when rewriting his own history.
 
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