They said version 1 isn't aimed at gaming, not that it won't have any games...
Nadella: HoloLens Version 1 aimed at Enterprise Users not Gaming
- Thread starter Captain Zyrain
- Start date
They said version 1 isn't aimed at gaming, not that it won't have any games...
Mr. Giggles
Member
Ice. Cold.
This would be a 'I understood that reference' moment if E3 didn't stand for Electronics Entertainment Expo
."Isn't aimed at gaming" could also mean there won't be games in version 1, right? Or did I miss that quote that version 1 will have games - can you please post/link it?
What I read in the OP is this quote (truncated):
"Gaming will always be a scenario and there will be other entertainment broadly. But, with the V.1 of HoloLens, I want us to push a lot more of the enterprise usage."
There's certainly room for interpretation here.
Mr. Giggles
Member
This would be a 'I understood that reference' moment if E3 didn't stand for Electronics Entertainment Expo
E3 has always been about games and gaming.
We have CES for everything else electronics
Sure, there's room for interpretation, but there's nothing there that actually backs up what you're claiming. Minecraft could be there at launch on the v1 and it would still be sold primarily into businesses. Gaming wasn't the initial (or current) focus for the Surface either, yet it (and Windows 8) launch with a decent line up of Xbox branded games. Gaming is simply not as high a priority for MS in these other areas. That doesn't make gaming non-current in any of them though.
Minecraft is a game though... so E3 it is.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep. I thought I seen it all, when gamers of all people arguing against E3 being a gaming focused trade show.
Oh internet, you never disappoint.
Captain Zyrain
Member
Your position?
Pretty sure their "WOW" moment was backward compatibility.
But regarding HoloLens, why would it be out of place at E3? They showed it right after their Windows/VR portion of the conference. They showed it interacting with a game, since, well, it's a games conference. It's really cool new technology.
I don't see why you insist there is some sort of duplicitous reasoning going on here. They didn't announce a price, release date, or a game list, or.. anything regarding HoloLens. They did not even remotely imply it's tied to the Xbox One in any meaningful way.
Seems about right for new technology. Getting developers on board is key for any new technology. Pushing "a lot more of enterprise usage" does not mean zero gaming.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
If and when they get to a version without a restricted field of view, it will be an astonishing experience in my opinion. Can't wait for it.
People really are just grasping at reasons to twist what was said into a negative.
Hololens will have many uses, including gaming, but the main push for version 1 will be enterprise... Not the only push. It was no doubt at E3 because all eyes are on that show and MS has a huge presence so why not use it to show off their new tech? They'd be stupid not to! At no point did they promise anything about future games, give a price or talk about release dates. They just showed a potential use.
Not hard to understand really unless of course you just want it to fail for some sad reason.
Hololens will have many uses, including gaming, but the main push for version 1 will be enterprise... Not the only push. It was no doubt at E3 because all eyes are on that show and MS has a huge presence so why not use it to show off their new tech? They'd be stupid not to! At no point did they promise anything about future games, give a price or talk about release dates. They just showed a potential use.
Not hard to understand really unless of course you just want it to fail for some sad reason.
It actually does back up the claim completely. The point is why is Microsoft showing this device at E3 at their conference during their gaming showcase when they're not really positioning it for gaming OR entertainment but more on the enterprise side (at least the first version). After Nadella's quote it seems as though Phil threw that in there to combat the move in our industry to VR which they don't have an answer for. It clearly worked because the demo looked great.
You're making assumptions with "could" but not applying your same logic about it not backing up your own claim. For all we know Minecraft Hololens Edition is a glorified tech demo just like Halo's showing to the press. We just don't know.
Do you treat every game that's not yet out, and could potentially pull a TLG (PlayStation Version???) as a glorified tech-demo? If not, why is this any different? It was shown in a more advanced state than a LOT of what is shown at E3 on the main stages.
It doesn't back up you're claiming. The device doesn't have to be gaming specific to be at E3, it just needs gaming software. The HoloLens was there because that's what this new verion of Minecraft runs on. They're not simply looking to win a few E3 polls by making a quick Minecraft concept.... they have entire studios they've created specifically to create content for the device...
You're being kinda petty about all this, if you think they shouldn't show their gaming software at a gaming show, just because the device will likely be purchased by non-gamers as a majority.
And they showed it at CES...
And recognizing that they are at a game show, they showed a game running on it at E3...
There's literally nothing wrong here...
No, they are positioning it to be the next leap in personal computing... And like any other personal computing breakthroughs, the scope of its utility grows over time... The reason they bring it to every tech show, is because they need to demonstrate its capabilities on all fronts, enterprise, gaming, entertainment, etc...
So what V1 will be mostly shopped to enterprise!... It's probably going to be prohibitively expensive for gamers initially. Also the FOV is currently less than ideal for the gaming market.
that doesn't mean MS shouldn't start getting developers thinking about how they would make games for it, or that they shouldn't start getting gamers talking about the kinds of games they way to see..
panda-zebra
Member
Away from the presser, it wasn't just Minecraft they showed at E3. In private sessions they showed what they called a 'mixed reality first person shooter' : project x-ray. So they very much were touting gaming for HoloLens at E3.
https://youtu.be/zG2I5y7cxss
In the video above describing the project x-ray game, input was via 'a standard xbox controller'.
Pathfinder
Member
This would be a 'I understood that reference' moment if E3 didn't stand for Electronics Entertainment Expo
You're both right.
There's no harm in letting people believe they're being clever though. Let them have their moment.
Then what's the point of having it up there to begin with at E3? It's a legit question - at E3 I'm looking for announcements and looking forward for things to come - with this quote it adds question marks. Saying "it's showing it with a game" doesn't mean anything - it's a tech demo and IMO shouldn't have a place there especially if they by their own admission are trying to push this to enterprise.
Backwards compatibility was a huge announcement and everyone clapped but when everyone saw Hololens and Minecraft - jaws hit the floor in disbelief. It looked like something incredible. To me - playing 360 games on an Xbox one doesn't have that same effect.
It really seems like they felt the need to compete in the VR space and brought Hololens in.
Yeah honestly those use cases seem more interesting to me for HoloLens. Ultimately, it's an augmented reality setupso why would you focus on stuff that can be created entirely on a normal screen right now?
I'm being petty eh. I guess we'll have to see what games come out on it once version 1 is released.
Prophet Steve
Member
That they are pushing for the enterprise market doesn't mean they are dropping the gaming market all together, it is even implied they are going for multiple markets.
For a first version is just seems way more useful for the enterprise market, I agree with them.
For a first version is just seems way more useful for the enterprise market, I agree with them.
Probably about 1 or 2 at most...why? Because developers don't have their hands on the devices as it is not finished. This isn't like a new game console coming out. It's a totally new platform that changes the way developers have to make applications (not only games) and/or extend their applications. They still have to gauge the interest of the technology to who they would be selling it to, and that's why they showed it at E3. It has gaming capabilities, let's show that off to who may be interested.
There's a reason why people compare it to how the first iPhone came out...it wasn't for everyone and it didn't appeal to everyone and it didn't have certain things one would expect out of a version 1.0 product. So they'll still show it off to what it can do but it will focus on enterprise and developers as they will most likely build off of it and can afford it.
Captain Zyrain
Member
I totally missed that before. That sounds really cool!
The HoloLens is more of a result of Microsoft not feeling a need to compete in VR if anything. If they felt a need to compete in VR, they'd be offering a VR headset, rather than having worked on HoloLens since before Morpheus was even an announced thing.
It think MS is aware that they can just be a platform provider for VR (whilst companies like Oculus and HTC create the actual headsets). However in the AR space, because the devices are more likely to be untethered to an existing computer, falling behind in that area would leave them in a similar scenario to the phone market, where the majority of devices are running an OS made by their competitors. So they're moving to secure their place in that arena, so if (when) it blows up, the devices are more likely to be running Windows and other Microsoft services.
Even if there isn't many (any), that doesn't really change anything. Minecraft is far enough along to have been demonstrated at E3 this year. They're evidently creating games content for the device, through multiple studios. There's no good reason to single this out to be contested. Every year at E3 there are numerous games shown that are not explicitly dated. Often they don't even any realtime gameplay to show yet... hell quite a few miss the goddamn generation they were debuted for (and those generation don't have yearly refreshes). There's nothing wrong here, and if anything that they were actually demonstrating the software running (cross platform even) puts it above an awful lot of E3 showings.
They almost certainly did give that impression. They certainly didn't try to clarify it isn't anyway. They showed it at CES, the consumer electronics show. much like Hololens it was a prototype, we only learnt wasn't coming out in any form months later. They used that crap for xbox PR for months before telling people it's not actually a thing.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=550020
we had respected insiders saying stuff like this 5 months later:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=559932
because they didn't clarify this is not an actual future product at all. They were all too happy to lead people on for a long time, I guess MS was doing anything and everything to quash that always online backlash at the time including leading people on, going as far as saying XB1 supports 4k games even.
Alx
Member
Come on, they never even hinted at illumiroom being a commercial product, and never mentioned it in the same sentence as xbox. You can't blame them if some gamers got crazy ideas when everybody could tell it would be too impractical for common use.
It always was a proof of concept for a research paper, like many other crazy things that MS Research produces. Same thing for their "VR in the cloud" thing, for example.
Are you referring to Paul Thurrot here? He says it's going to be part of an event. Was he wrong, and it wasn't?
He doesn't seem to be thinking that it's going to see release based on the twitter link in that post.
I mean... this is him a month prior to that:
Not very comparable to where we are with HoloLens today.
We already know this isn't true... The leaked XboxOne documents from long before its reveal showed the MS was planning on having an augmented reality device.
We now know that that device was shown to MS heads, and they determined that its potential was too great to be limited to gaming, so they expanded the scope...
It started as a gaming thing, and grew into much more...that's why it's being shown at everything from general consumer electronics shows to gaming conventions...
Sure you can say it was research all along, isn't any prototype that doesn't get mass produced in the end? But the idea that they didn't give the impression it was a future product i can't agree with and it's beside the point even. Ask most people in any of those illumiroom threads, they got that impression. They got that impression because they wilfully let it run rampant for months, they showed it at CES, released a flashy marketing video to most blogs, invited media around and that fuelled speculation MS was planning to bring the concept to market. This was a time that they were trying to create positive news for a product. They didn't formally quash that rumour until months and months later when that switch was flipped. Just to be clear I'm not saying hololens isn't going to release, I'm giving an example because somebody asked
I gave one, because they certainly were showing off tech stuff that didn't end up coming out with illumiroom.
The only thing MS has done wrong with the way they marketed the Hololens is the FOV as far as I can tell. Anyone complaining about how they marketed the thing as a gaming hardware and are now backtracking are just looking for reasons to hate. They have always said it will be a standalone product with many uses such as gaming. The Hololens V1 will have games (probably a limited amount) but it will primarily be used in business, probably due to the high cost of the hardware 1000-1500$?
I'm talking about the timing/venue (E3 2015 - xbox presser). Not that Hololens is Microsofts answer to OR, Vive, Morpheus. We all know about the leaked docs.
The timing overlaps, because E3 has a set date... The HoloLens was already unveiled at MS' own conference, and E3 was the first gaming focused conference where it would make sense to discuss Minecraft at length.
Are you suggesting that they sit E3 out until next year (when the device and possibly even Minecraft) would already have hit the market. Or should they not have even unveiled the device this year, in order to avoid treading on VR's toes?
What's wrong with the timing? They've shown it at pretty much every consumer electronics show since it was revealled at MS' own conference... E3 was simply the next stop for the train...
Why show it off at every event? because it's intended to be multi-utility device. It's simply about showing off their vision for their products utility... There's no better place to show off its prospects for gaming than e3... That's how fans start thinking about what they want from it. That's how game developers can start thinking about how they can use it... So they showed it. It makes perfect sense...
With this methodology it didn't seem like anything much can be done with gaming for at least their first device iteration since they've clearly changed focus to prioritize enterprise applications over gaming.
No, they're targeting the enterprise sector primarily for sales. The device itself is likely just as suitable for gaming as it's likely to be at any point in the near future. Nothing's preventing a development team from realising a gaming concept they may have for the device. Apple didn't focus on gaming for the iPhone/iPad either, but that doesn't prevent people from making gaming apps. It's just that right now, there are less likely to be as many consumers purchasing the product for entertainment purposes.
If gaming was something they weren't giving any consideration for, they wouldn't have opened up numerous new first party studio specifically to create gaming content for the device.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Wonder if you whinged like this about the Shen Mue announcement, they don't even know what they're thing to make, much less have a release date or price.
A) Since the initial reveal of Hololens the primary focus has never been gaming. Nothing they've said has even hinted at that being the case.
B) Why does it seem like there is no way you can play a game on the first version?
Smh
such is life with technology... Sometime you have to iterate. They've broadened the focus from being just a gaming device... Changed it from being a tethered device, to a standalone PC... Threw in an powerful custom holographic GPU that is undoubtedly more expensive than their original plan, and brought in a bunch of partners that are helping with research...
Sound reasoning would suggest that V1 will be too expensive to market directly to gamers... It's not that nothing can be done with gaming... (We already see how it can be used for gaming...) the question is whether or not the software and hardware can be ready for a gamer friendly device in time for launch...
People are just digging for a conspiracy where there is not...
Why does the focus need to be on games? It's meant to be a personal computer... Gaming is just one of many things it is expected to do... This has been the message since it was first revealed...
At e3 they showed it playing games, because that's what people show at e3...
Gtfo with that console warrior nonsense. This is not a PS4/shenmue thread. Nor do I even care about that game.
Except the pr videos showed games and it's on stage at the e3 xbox presser.
You can - no one is saying you can't. My calculator can play games too. The focus is the question.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Here's a new demo from yesterday's WPC event. Show an Autodesk 3D animation. Pretty cool stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yADhOKEbZ5Q
This is the reason I want one, fantastic stuff.
If sound reasoning would suggest that V1 will be too expensive for gamers than why would it be sound reasoning to show this off at an event targeted to gamers. And on top of that in tech demo fashion. And then say "well we're really not targeting gaming and entertainment with this first version" AFTER the fact. And questioning this is "conspiracy theories".
Smh.
They showed it at E3 to show some of the gaming applications of it. Just because they aren't focusing on games with Hololens V1 does not mean they can't show some of the gaming applications of the device and get us excited for future uses.
They showed a completely new platform, that is only seen in movies. Obviously it is going to amaze people.
Hololens ain't competing with VR, different markets.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Rofl, console warrior nonsense? I just asked a perfectly fair question. You had a moan over hololens being shown without a price or release date, they haven't even started designing Shen Mue so I wondered whether you've been equally bitchy at that appearing at e3.
Also, showing it can play games = the device is focussed on games?
Charles Brandon
Member
Enterprise just means it's going to be expensive as fuck.
Whining/bitchy - bring up PS4 games in a Microsoft thread. Yea.
Pathfinder
Member
The first gen device will be, no doubt about that.
Yes - already posted this (#281).
Because the the device will play games! Why is that so hard for you to understand?...
When is a better time to get game developers thinking of how they'll use the device? When is a better time to get gamers thinking about what kinds of games they want...
When the device IS ready for gaming, we do want content available for it, don't we?
That's like saying, hey no smartphone games at E3, because Smartphones are primarily for communication...
Or no PC games at E3 because PCs are primarily for productivity ...
What's with this mentality that a device needs to be primarily focused on gaming in order to warrant being shown...
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
What, like when Sony was showing off a new 3D TV on stage at E3?
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/06/06/new-3d-display-and-ps3-accessories-debut-at-e3/
Very simple, E3 isn't about just Xbox One for MS, its about gaming as a whole, all of their gaming platforms. That means console, PC, and soon to be HoloLens. Some gamers upgrade and buy expensive PC parts for their gaming. These same people most likely will put down cash for a HoloLens if they like what they see. Why not show it to them? Those gamers aren't the primary target but they are a target and they would show them stuff.
Basically, they are early adopters and they are going to show it to them.
Why not show Surface at the xbox presser then as well? It plays games and is a dedicated platform just like Hololens. Pretty sure you can play Minecraft on it.
...Its not a wearable though and that's the new "in" thing.
Also for everyone who is acting "surprised" that someone can even question this - please read over the first page or so. I just happen to be replying why I think so.