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[Namikaze1]

I hate all of you who keep mentioning Jiraiya!


I still haven't gotten over his death! ;__;

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

So are Anko and Yamato confirmed dead or what?

Also, Jiraiya was definitely kage level. He pushed Pain further than anyone else with only two toads as his back up. Like the poster above me just said, Pain even said if he had information on his abilities he could've lost.

I'm so glad they haven't tainted Jiraiya's legacy by bringing him back to life.

Yamato was at least shown recently. He is caught in infinite tsukuyomi. Anko is chillin in a cave somewhere.

I also like that they kept Jiraiya pure. An edo Jiraiya just doesn't fit.

I hate all of you who keep mentioning Jiraiya!


I still haven't gotten over his death! ;__;

 

[Frog-fu]

Tobirama is nothing to sneeze at though. I imagine the battle to be a close one, Tobirama might be slower but he doesn't need the shurikens. I feel the bijou cloak is wasted in Minato since he doesn't know the bijou dama or any moves that can use all that Chaka. Poor guy died before hitting his stride.

And I believe Kabuto can handily beat itachi. Eye genjutsu won't work, taijutsu won't work, susanoo won't work. He is a bad matchup.

He sure isn't but Minato is still the better fighter.

As for Kabuto VS Itachi - Itachi hardly used Susanoo. He didn't draw his Sword of Totsuka or his Yata Mirror. He didn't try to use Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. He wasn't even actively trying to hurt Kabuto throughout the majority of that fight. He was mostly defending Sasuke and lecturing Kabuto, most likely already certain of his victory.

Kabuto tailored his entire fighting style to take out Sasuke but hadn't anticipated he would have to fight Itachi. Not that the outcome would have been different if he fought Sasuke as he was significantly stronger than Itachi at that point, and if he hadn't been as flustered and frustrated by seeing Itachi again, he would have likely approached his fight with Kabuto with the same cold analysis and forethought he showed Deidara, who also trained to beat the Sharingan - specifically Itachi's. I'd say Kabuto severely underestimated both brothers in that fight.

The Akatsuki didn't attack Naruto inbetween Part 1 and 2 because of Jiraya, correct?

But doesn't Pain just solo Jiyara later on?

Pain solos Jiraiya mainly due to the fact he caught him slipping. That one moment Jiraiya let his guard down, Pain brought out 3 more bodies and took an arm. After the fight Pain admitted Jiraiya could have very well beaten him had he known about the other bodies beforehand - which is also the reason why Jiraiya inscribed his message on Fukasaku's back.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Pain was lucky as fuck Gai wasn't there when he invaded Konoha.

Wow, I forgot about this. That's actually a pretty convenient way to keep Gai from using the eight gates and killing himself on Kishi's part. He would have, too. And then Naruto would have never had his signature battle.

 

[Winterfang]

Itachi been warning people not to underestimate Gai since part 1.

Jiraiya >Itachi, frog song would have ended Kisame and itachi.

Possibly, Living Itachi was actually not that strong. Frog Sage would be too much and Kabuto confirmed Sound Genjutsu goes trough susanoo.

Guy almost solo'd himself if not for Narujesus. And to what you said about Itachi above. I don't think it means it cheap that he always has the perfect strategy/jutsu for any given moment, that's what makes him the best!

Asuma died against the weakest of the akatsuki, I think Gai dying and saving the entire world of high rank terrorist organization would be a fair trade LOL.

Jiraiya most certainly would be able to defeat pain with Intel. Without that information would had being almost impossible to figure it out and even if they did they would never find the real body. I like that he could had retreat and escape but rather came back to the danger just to be 100% sure and paid the price. He also willed himself back to life. Amazing character.

 

[The Silver]

Didn't they already have two sealed when they caught Gaara? I think it's only the Kyuubi has to be sealed last.

yeah Kurama is so much stronger than the other ones its silly

Half of his chakra is enough to beat 5 other tailed beasts.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

It's a damn shame Orochimaru became so corrupt. No denying that he is probably one of the best Ninjas, even with all the OP people walking around these days. Where would you guys place him vs everyone including the Kages. Assuming he had full use of his jutsus and whatnot. He is up there.

But I wonder if he'd be as good as he is if he didn't become corrupt because maybe it's that fiending for more power that made him so. ALSO, he clearly has the best theme song in the entire series and one of the best of any series.

1. Hashirama
2. Young Sarurobi
3. Minato
4. Jiraiya
5. Tobirama
6. Orochimaru
7. Tsunade

People really sleep on Jiraiya. He was a monster. Itachi himself said that he didn't think he could beat him in a fight.

 

[Namikaze1]

Pyromaniac, why?! *sobs*

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

1. Hashirama
2. Young Sarurobi
3. Minato
4. Jiraiya
5. Tobirama
6. Orochimaru
7. Tsunade

People really sleep on Jiraiya. He was a monster. Itachi himself said that he didn't think he could beat him in a fight.

Itachi might have just been saying that though. He WAS undercover. I think Orochimaru vs Jiraiya is a great matchup that isn't easily called. If it's all out both at their best all jutsus allowed. I think Oro wins. But At the same time I could see Jiraiya winning but with VERY high difficulty, as in it would NOT be easy at all. It's a close matchup. Would be an awesome fight to watch.

Pyromaniac, why?! *sobs*

 

[Maddocks]

Itachi said at best him and kas vs Jiraiya would end up in a draw as they all would end up dead. He was probably being honest.

This is the same itachi that mind fucked kakashi, he was not holding back at the time.

 

[Winterfang]

Wow, I forgot about this. That's actually a pretty convenient way to keep Gai from using the eight gates and killing himself on Kishi's part. He would have, too. And then Naruto would have never had his signature battle.

Thank God he didn't, if Gai had died against pain, Kabuto could had Edo Gai with 8 gates+ zero draw backs. War = Ended in a couple of minutes, bad guys win.

Edit: New chapter tomorrow. Sweet.

 

[Namikaze1]

I want Jiraiya as my sensei. I don't care if he's a massive pervert! He was the best! ;__;

 

[Frog-fu]

Eight Gates Gai really has to be the most annoying thing in Naruto in recent times. People overestimate shit out of Gai's abilities, crazy as they are, to the point of actually believing Madara was going to let himself be done in by Gai.

It's like people completely ignore the fact Madara was letting Gai do his thing. Goading him constantly and marvelling at the power of the Eight Gates. The dude was obviously on a power trip due to his newfound even greater god complex and Gai was the perfect instrument to see how far he could go. Even when Gai was done with his Evening Elephant, Madara goaded Gai to show off even more. And even then, after Madara took on the full brunt of Yagai, Madara was laughing out of sheer admiration before granting Gai the "honour" of dying by his hand.

At no point was there an actual fight between Madara and Eight Gates Gai wherein Madara was unwilling ragdoll.

Remember, Madara regenerated from all the damage inflicted by Gai like it was nothing. And again later one when Sasuke bisected him. Context is king.

 

[Pein]

What? Madara was getting rag dolled. He tried not taking all of the evening elephants strikes and he said he was lucky to survive the night moth.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

Itachi might have just been saying that though. He WAS undercover. I think Orochimaru vs Jiraiya is a great matchup that isn't easily called. If it's all out both at their best all jutsus allowed. I think Oro wins. But At the same time I could see Jiraiya winning but with VERY high difficulty, as in it would NOT be easy at all. It's a close matchup. Would be an awesome fight to watch.

I think Jiraiya could mop the floor with Oro. Remember, Itachi was way more powerful than Orochimaru, and Itachi when asked by Kisame remarked that he could only hope to tie with Jiraiya. Hell, their stats are dead even on the Naruto wiki.

Even Pain knew that if Jiraiya knew the secret of his bodies from the outset, Jiraiya would have thrashed him.

He was an amazing shinobi.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I think Jiraiya could mop the floor with Oro. Remember, Itachi was way more powerful than Orochimaru, and Itachi when asked by Kisame remarked that he could only hope to tie with Jiraiya. Hell, their stats are dead even on the Naruto wiki.

Even Pain knew that if Jiraiya knew the secret of his bodies from the outset, Jiraiya would have thrashed him.

He was an amazing shinobi.

Yeah I think the thing that puts Jiraiya over the top is sage mode. But don't forget Orochimaru has Edo Tensei...

 

[Frog-fu]

What? Madara was getting rag dolled. He tried not taking all of the evening elephants strikes and he said he was lucky to survive the night moth.

Explain how he kept goading Gai to bust out more techniques. Furthermore explain how Gai could supposedly end him when an even more devastating Sage powered Lava RasenShuriken that ended the God Tree couldn't get the job done?

Madara was never seriously fighting Gai. He was being an arrogant tool.

 

[Winterfang]

Nobody gave Madara a beating like Guy did, blood gushing through mouth, losing control of the situation, being unable to react to the speed and power.

 

[Necromanti]

Yeah I think the thing that puts Jiraiya over the top is sage mode. But don't forget Orochimaru has Edo Tensei...

Orochimaru might have attained sage mode if he found a stronger host (or never transferred himself into another vessel to begin with), as well.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

Yeah I think the thing that puts Jiraiya over the top is sage mode. But don't forget Orochimaru has Edo Tensei...

He's not gonna have time to revive corpses when he's insta-killed by Jiraiya's sage mode genjutsu.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

He's not gonna have time to revive corpses when he's insta-killed by Jiraiya's sage mode genjutsu.

psshhh are we assuming Jiraiya is already in sage mode? While he's collecting energy Oro will already have the Kages resurrected.

 

[Winterfang]

He's not gonna have time to revive corpses when he's insta-killed by Jiraiya's sage mode genjutsu.

To be fair, it takes Jiraiya like 10 minutes to gather the Chakra for Sage Mode, then 3-5 more for the frogs to get their throats in synch.

Orochimaru can just do 1 hand seal and suddenly 4 Hokages comes out. Edo Tensei outs Orochimaru leagues above Jiraiya. Without it, they are pretty equal.

 

[Pein]

If this is Orochimaru pre zetsu body his edo tensei ain't shit.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If this is Orochimaru pre zetsu body his edo tensei ain't shit.

When you do matchups you gotta state restrictions. I said both at their best. That's why I think it's either Orochimaru ftw or Jiraiya with extreme high degree of difficulty.

 

[Hero]

I think Jiraiya could mop the floor with Oro. Remember, Itachi was way more powerful than Orochimaru, and Itachi when asked by Kisame remarked that he could only hope to tie with Jiraiya. Hell, their stats are dead even on the Naruto wiki.

Even Pain knew that if Jiraiya knew the secret of his bodies from the outset, Jiraiya would have thrashed him.

He was an amazing shinobi.

With the sannin I could've sworn it was supposed to reflect rock/paper/scissors. Like Jiraiya loses to Orochimaru but Orochimaru loses to Tsunade while Tsunade would lose to Jiraiya.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Eight Gates Gai really has to be the most annoying thing in Naruto in recent times. People overestimate shit out of Gai's abilities, crazy as they are, to the point of actually believing Madara was going to let himself be done in by Gai.

It's like people completely ignore the fact Madara was letting Gai do his thing. Goading him constantly and marvelling at the power of the Eight Gates. The dude was obviously on a power trip due to his newfound even greater god complex and Gai was the perfect instrument to see how far he could go. Even when Gai was done with his Evening Elephant, Madara goaded Gai to show off even more. And even then, after Madara took on the full brunt of Yagai, Madara was laughing out of sheer admiration before granting Gai the "honour" of dying by his hand.

At no point was there an actual fight between Madara and Eight Gates Gai wherein Madara was unwilling ragdoll.

Remember, Madara regenerated from all the damage inflicted by Gai like it was nothing. And again later one when Sasuke bisected him. Context is king.

Not every nin was Madara though. Madara was hella broken, and plot armored to the point where even the author had little idea on how to beat him.

Against any other ninja alive, Gai would have been an unstoppable terror.

The biggest issue so far in the manga is why exactly Kakashi is suppose to be Kage level, when he seems to be an absolute scrub. Without his sharrigan, I've no idea how he's really suppose to fight.

 

[Winterfang]

Ok if we are talking Edo Tensei.

Real talk here.

Who takes it Orochimaru vs Kabuto.

Oro had a senju body, his arms back and the hokages.
Kabujo has Sage Mode and his army (including itachi, Edo Madera)

Are the 4 Hokage's enough to clean house?

 

[TelluricTokoro]

psshhh are we assuming Jiraiya is already in sage mode? While he's collecting energy Oro will already have the Kages resurrected.

Lol touché.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Ok if we are talking Edo Tensei.

Real talk here.

Who takes it Orochimaru vs Kabuto.

Oro had a senju body, his arms back and the hokages.
Kabujo has Sage Mode and his army (including itachi, Edo Madera)

Are the 4 Hokage's enough to clean house?

Both at their best I think Kabuto wins. The dude can do sage mode while moving. Kabuto wins with medium to high degree of difficulty. In fact it's pretty frighting how strong Kabuto is.

 

[Heroman]

Ok if we are talking Edo Tensei.

Real talk here.

Who takes it Orochimaru vs Kabuto.

Oro had a senju body, his arms back and the hokages.
Kabujo has Sage Mode and his army (including itachi, Edo Madera)

Are the 4 Hokage's enough to clean house?

If orochimaru has the 4 kages than he wins, if it was one on one Kabuto would win.

 

[Necromanti]

That would be one of those hypotheticals that would only be easier to reason out in a vacuum, as not only is Orochimaru a smarter tactician, he has also been emotionally manipulating and grooming Kabuto since he found him.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If orochimaru has the 4 kages than he wins, if it was one on one Kabuto would win.

Edo Madara doesn't seem to have much trouble handling the Hokages. Also he who has access to Edo Itachi WINS.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

Ok if we are talking Edo Tensei.

Real talk here.

Who takes it Orochimaru vs Kabuto.

Oro had a senju body, his arms back and the hokages.
Kabujo has Sage Mode and his army (including itachi, Edo Madera)

Are the 4 Hokage's enough to clean house?

If Kabuto has Madara he wins. Otherwise Oro. Minato alone is enough to beat everyone else.

 

[The Silver]

Ok if we are talking Edo Tensei.

Real talk here.

Who takes it Orochimaru vs Kabuto.

Oro had a senju body, his arms back and the hokages.
Kabujo has Sage Mode and his army (including itachi, Edo Madera)

Are the 4 Hokage's enough to clean house?

Madara stalemates Hashirama for a good while

Nagato and Itachi would have to deal with Minato

Kinkaku and Ginkaku with some other akatsuki members can beat Tobirama

The other Kages beat up on Sarutobi


Sage mode Kabuto is stronger than Oro and has plenty more edos left to help him out or anyone else.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

We haven't even mentioned Kabuto's medical ninjutsu....as I said. It's scary how much power this guy has.

 

[Vermillion]

Jiraiya's death was the saddest moment in the series.


Guy's flashbacks meant nothing seeing that Naruto saved him moments later. Like, I didn't want him to die, but at least he was about to die a hero's death.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Jiraiya's death was the saddest moment in the series.


Guy's flashbacks meant nothing seeing that Naruto saved him moments later. Like, I didn't want him to die, but at least he was about to die a hero's death.

It wasn't his time. He has to rub it in Kakashi's face that he is now officially better now that he lost his Sharingan.

 

[Heroman]

It wasn't his time. He has to rub it in Kakashi's face that he is now officially better now that he lost his Sharingan.

But how can be better if he lost his leg.

 

[Winterfang]

If Kabuto has Madara he wins. Otherwise Oro. Minato alone is enough to beat everyone else.

Kabuto's army has some tricky enemies though. The gold/silver brothers with the sealing tricks, the 4 kages (Muu is invisible and dangerous, the Mizukage clam has a genjutsu that get's thought the pores/nose maybe), there's the jinchurikies, Nagato, Deidara jutsu that has nano bombs, zabuza with the silent mist, and a lot of regular strong folks.

Edit: I forgot Kabuto has Orochimaru also

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

But how can be better if he lost his leg.

Naruto has already proven he can restore body parts. A leg will be easy shmeezy.

 

[Heroman]

Naruto has already proven he can restore body parts. A leg will be easy shmeezy.

When did he do that?

 

[The Silver]

When did he do that?

gave Kakashi his eye back

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

When did he do that?

Kakashi lost his sharingan eye and Naruto gave him a brand new eyeball. If he can create something from scratch like that, no reason he can't restore a shattered leg. This is Narujesus we're talking about. Surrender to your new lord.

 

[Heroman]

Kakashi lost his sharingan eye and Naruto gave him a brand new eyeball. If he can create something from scratch like that, no reason he can't restore a shattered leg. This is Narujesis we're talking about. Surrender to your new lord.

Oh yeah, I forgot that he is ninja Jesus. On side note am I the only one who has forgotten what happen in this arc?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Oh yeah, I forgot that he is ninja Jesus. On side note am I the only one who has forgotten what happen in this arc?

So much has happened because it has gone on for so long and includes so many powers that I don't blame anyone for forgetting details. Though you should have remembered that!

 

[Winterfang]

I don't remember anything had happened between obito becoming the host of the Juubi, until Madara was reamimated. I kind of tuned out at that point, maybe I was use to the manga going between different scenes, and too much obito burnt me out.

I only remember a DNA sword, Naruto and Tobirama doing a badass combination, and Chakra jackets, I'll have to re-read that part soon.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Edo Tensei isn't really fair to factor into "who would win" fights... it's the equivalent to calling in the cavalry to back you up. It says little of the abilities of the person who uses it.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Edo Tensei isn't really fair to factor into "who would win" fights... it's the equivalent to calling in the cavalry to back you up. It says little of the abilities of the person who uses it.

Even without it though. In the Jiraiya vs Orochimaru fight. Jiraiya's biggest asset would be sage mode but he'd never get into it. It would be a toss up for sure. I think it's fair if you choose to include it. If someone states no edo allowed then yeah it's a different story. Edo isn't everything though...look at Madara taking them on. There are ways to combat it just like any jutsu. If you have the skill.

 

[TelluricTokoro]

With the sannin I could've sworn it was supposed to reflect rock/paper/scissors. Like Jiraiya loses to Orochimaru but Orochimaru loses to Tsunade while Tsunade would lose to Jiraiya.

You've got the order wrong.

It's Slug > Toad > Snake > Slug

Before his death, Jiraiya said the two closest times he'd come to death was:

1. Training with Naruto, and fighting him in his 4th tailed state.
2. Fighting Tsunade

Meanwhile, when Tsunade fought Oro when she poisoned Jiraiya (so he couldn't intervene and kill Orochimaru) to protect Naruto, he shrugged off all her blows. She couldn't even knock him unconscious with punches directly to the head, while she was physically strong enough to lift Gamabunta's sword and stab Manda's mouth shut. Orochimaru has shown to be highly resistant to taijutsu-based fighting styles, while Genjutsu prove highly effective.

So it would make sense for Tsunade's attacks to not be very effective. But on the same hand, Jiraiya's sage mode affords him a very special genjutsu that could instantly kill Orochimaru.

 

[Winterfang]

Tsunade was rusty in that fight, Orochimaru didn't had any arms, Jiraiya was the only one fighting at full capacity.

I also think is fair to include the Edo Tensei in the characters repertoire. Especially mow that characters like Gai and Naruto raised the power level.