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[Fine Ham Abounds]

I think the lack of a solid space program is one of the factors in our loss of vision and wonder at the natural world. So many people nowadays take their inspiration from fiction and special effects since there is nothing in the real world that can compare to Hollywood magic. That's not to say that I blame this on our entertainment industry, no. They and the science fiction writers have had more imagination than the government in the last 40 years and we've all enjoyed the stories they tell and the worlds they build.

But it's not real.

We've been wasting money on telling our kids why math and science are important rather than investing it on showing them why math and science are important and what they mean to the future of our species.

That's what's so exciting about this mission for me.

Every single high res shot I've seen so far looks like something I could have taken in my backyard (not really, but fidelity-wise, you know what I'm getting at), but it's not. It's on Mars.

That rock is not a CG rock. It's not a rock in Arizona. It's not plaster. It's not foam. That photo looks like that because it's a photo of a real place. A real place like any other place. Every other place in this solar system is another real place. Every other place in this universe is another real place. Just like your backyard.

This is really happening. It's a real other world to be explored and experienced. It's a grain of sand on the shoreline of a universe bigger than we can comprehend, but is directly accessible to us. Sometimes it takes venturing to the edges of our ability to better understand what we've always had.

The greatest gift of science is not just a bunch of new facts to be memorized or things to be categorized and filed, it's the potential every second of every day to have your perspective of everything shattered, rebuilt, and expanded beyond anything you could have possibly imagined the second before.

 

[Cyan]

Mars? Or... Bakersfield?

 

[Oozer3993]

Pretty nice set.

Dammit LEGO, why are these not sets I can buy? You'd have all of my money. ALL OF IT. That MSL descent stage set is amazing. I'd pay just about anything for an official one. On a related note, vote for the Mars Science Laboratory LEGO Cuusoo model to get it actually released as a set by LEGO. If it reaches 10,000 supporters, LEGO will actually investigate making it, which in this case almost assuredly means it would get released. Pretty much the only reason they deny one is because of licensing issues, and they've done several NASA sets in the past, and still make several sets in partnership with NASA.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Dammit LEGO, why are these not sets I can buy? You'd have all of my money. ALL OF IT. That MSL descent stage set is amazing. I'd pay just about anything for an official one. On a related note, vote for the Mars Science Laboratory LEGO Cuusoo model to get it actually released as a set by LEGO. If it reaches 10,000 supporters, LEGO will actually investigate making it, which in this case almost assuredly means it would get released. Pretty much the only reason they deny one is because of licensing issues, and they've done several NASA sets in the past, and still make several sets in partnership with NASA.

I think a properly worded plea for NASA's support on this issue might find success. Just to pitch a suggestion, I'd recommend getting in touch with the media contact for MSL:

Guy Webster (Mars Science Laboratory) 818-354-5011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory Mission guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov
Pasadena, Calif.

There is a social-media specialist from either MSL or JPL that was in on the early MSL briefings. I can't remember her name and haven't dug enough to find the name without watching the videos again, it would be at the beginning of the briefing.

The curiosity Lego kit design was done by a JPL engineer. I think that NASA would consider doing something simple, like having Curiosity Tweet: “Hey, checkout this...(or something cutesy) and upvote it if you want to build me.”

There is a NSF science camp for kids at a nearby University. They use some of the Lego Robotics Kits. It might be a stretch but it can't hurt to frame an argument that would benefit all parties, and then present the argument to have NASA "lightly" advocate production. Lego->build-> learn science angle. Dropping a word in the Lego thread here on GAF might do good as well.

[edit:] the Lego Thread pages 290-291 has some neat pics.
[edit2:"] Veronica McGregor is one of three people in charge of Curiosity's tweets. Google her name + JPL . Apparently Curiosity is at over 900,000 followers.

 

[pestul]

I love the colour panoramas. I know it's the real deal, but it's funny how everything in the distance (crater walls) looks like it was stripped from Just Cause 2 or something lol. Probably just a nice haze or something.

 

[jgkspsx]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/nasa-calls-it-a-mission-as-curiosity-rover-fills-u,29115/

NASA Calls It A Mission As Curiosity Rover Fills Up Whole 2-Gigabyte Memory Card

Curiosity storage solutions by Nintendo.

Somebody forgot to clean the fridge. *glares*

 

[akira28]

This isn't Mars, but holy freaking god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08LBltePDZw&feature=player_embedded

It just boggles the mind.

 

[Slime]

New picture of the Arizona desert.

Mars? Or... Bakersfield?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE. THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN.

 

[Karma Kramer]

SCIENCE

 

[CiSTM]

Curiosity killed the cat

 

[Bowdz]

Curiosity killed the cat

 

[Scrow]

Terraformed Mars rendering:

as much as i'm in love with the concept, i don't think we'll ever terraform (marsform?) the planet to that degree.

sure we'll change it drastically by thickening the atmosphere a bit and making it warmer, but anyone who thinks we'll ever have lush forests, jungles, bushlands, grasslands etc. in the open-air are kidding themselves.

realistically i think the best we could ever hope for are antarctica like conditions. liveable, but definitely not a paradise. forests and the like will need to be nurtured under bio-domes where we can completely control all variables.

greatest limiting factor for mars to be more earth like? mass... and unfortunately there's very little we can do to, aside from sending millions or billions of asteroids/comets crashing into its surface to bulk it out to more earth-like mass. but why bother with that? just terraform venus. it'd probably be easier.

 

[Rentahamster]

greatest limiting factor for mars to be more earth like? mass...

Magnetosphere, imo. That radiation is a bitch.

 

[Neo C.]

realistically i think the best we could ever hope for are antarctica like conditions. liveable, but definitely not a paradise. forests and the like will need to be nurtured under bio-domes where we can completely control all variables.

greatest limiting factor for mars to be more earth like? mass... and unfortunately there's very little we can do to, aside from sending millions or billions of asteroids/comets crashing into its surface to bulk it out to more earth-like mass. but why bother with that? just terraform venus. it'd probably be easier.

Magnetosphere, imo. That radiation is a bitch.

True. Bio-domes should be the goal, at least for the next two hundred years.

By the way, did we already have this panorama view?
http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-29377.html

 

[Log4Girlz]

Thanks for typing all that, I learned a lot! You got any other reading recommendations on the subject? I hadn't even thought of cores freezing off before!! Amazing!

Crap, I don't. I've seen so many science shows, read so many internet articles that I have just absorbed a lot of information. Now, whenever I state something, feel free to google it. I'm no expert and sometimes my memory is foggy.

Hmm. Perhaps Mars isn't so dead after all?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120809155831.htm

A scientist claims that plate tectonics is occurring on mars.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Does anyone know when they are going to have the full res landing video up? I'm still sort of confused about the time table for this stuff. Do they only have a limited amount of bandwidth per day or something.

 

[Mengy]

as much as i'm in love with the concept, i don't think we'll ever terraform (marsform?) the planet to that degree.

sure we'll change it drastically by thickening the atmosphere a bit and making it warmer, but anyone who thinks we'll ever have lush forests, jungles, bushlands, grasslands etc. in the open-air are kidding themselves.

realistically i think the best we could ever hope for are antarctica like conditions. liveable, but definitely not a paradise. forests and the like will need to be nurtured under bio-domes where we can completely control all variables.

greatest limiting factor for mars to be more earth like? mass... and unfortunately there's very little we can do to, aside from sending millions or billions of asteroids/comets crashing into its surface to bulk it out to more earth-like mass. but why bother with that? just terraform venus. it'd probably be easier.

I can see where, with today's technology, you would feel this way. But in the future, anything is possible. Merely a little over a 100 years ago something as common as the airplane was science fiction, and the idea of flying across the oceans in comfort with a movie would have been ludicrous. And people having their own automobiles? Motorized carriages with combustion engines? LOL, motorized vehicles were the size of steam locomotives back then. Just 50 years ago, computers were something that fit into several large rooms, now a computer 100 times more powerful can fit on a watch.

Who's to say that hundreds of years from now we won't have machines that can easily create an artificial magnetic field around Mars? Who's to say we won't be able to create an atmosphere there as easily as we fly across our own planet today? If history has shown us anything, it's that anything is possible with enough effort and time.

 

[gutshot]

Here's the full panorama version of the image posted above. You can clearly see two of the pairs of blast marks. Pretty cool.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

seems like it would be so much easier to build mars colonies underground, away from harmful radiation and using the bedrock itself as natural walls rather than build some massive biodome that you constantly worry about collapsing. Because the planet is geologically dead you don't have to worry about earthquakes...the only thing that could ruin your day would be a direct hit from a meteorite.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

There are failsafes installed that will be in the background but the rover's activities will be pre-programmed prior to any given day's activities. In order for a remote-controlled operation, one of the two NASA birds (or the ESA craft -likely employed soon) need to be in the right places to allow for transmission. Everything is meticulously planned and a human controller might introduce too much room for error.

Interesting, I was wondering how control was handled, never knew what was needed for a remote control operation. So basically code is written, uploaded (that in itself is something I want to read more on how it's done), and executed with no person ever using a joystick/controller, crazy.

 

[asa]

seems like it would be so much easier to build mars colonies underground, away from harmful radiation and using the bedrock itself as natural walls rather than build some massive biodome that you constantly worry about collapsing. Because the planet is geologically dead you don't have to worry about earthquakes...the only thing that could ruin your day would be a direct hit from a meteorite.

Caves would also create safe haven from electric sand storms.. let's call NASA

 

[gutshot]

Interesting, I was wondering how control was handled, never knew what was needed for a remote control operation. So basically code is written, uploaded (that in itself is something I want to read more on how it's done), and executed with no person ever using a joystick/controller, crazy.

A joystick/controller would be impossible, considering it takes 13 minutes for the signal to travel to Mars and then another 13 minutes for the operator to get visual confirmation that the rover is actually moving.

Talk about input lag!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

A joystick/controller would be impossible, considering it takes 13 minutes for the signal to travel to Mars and then another 13 minutes for the operator to get visual confirmation that the rover is actually moving.

Talk about input lag!

I see, that's why I was wondering if there was a way to cheat and get around the signal delay using something besides radio signals. I thought it was remote controlled at points. I see that any of the 10 fps 720p that comes out, even live is still delayed.

I think the lack of a solid space program is one of the factors in our loss of vision and wonder at the natural world. So many people nowadays take their inspiration from fiction and special effects since there is nothing in the real world that can compare to Hollywood magic. That's not to say that I blame this on our entertainment industry, no. They and the science fiction writers have had more imagination than the government in the last 40 years and we've all enjoyed the stories they tell and the worlds they build.

But it's not real.

We've been wasting money on telling our kids why math and science are important rather than investing it on showing them why math and science are important and what they mean to the future of our species.

This is so true.

I think either Buzz or John Glenn said a few years ago that sci fi and things like Star Trek basically ruined the space program, because it set expectations unrealisticlly high in the mind of the public. They were right, NASA even has a page dedicated to explaining why things in many sci fi program are impossible or will take a long long time, but we are trying even if just the theortetical end (they also explain the process of discovery).

I've been showing my daughter, who just turned 7months old as many pictures of this as possible. I want to inspire her to look into science and math if she wants too, even if they were never my strongest areas, more math than science (of course things like physics were never fun).

 

[Partial Gamification]

Caves would also create safe haven from electric sand storms.. let's call NASA

NASA is all over that, and all the little details. First need to come up with a workable life-support system, recycling water and waste, and whatnot.

If you have the inkling to contact NASA (and you have a Twitter account), I'd say push for the above Curiosity/MSL &Lander to be an offficial Lego kit. Contact Veronica McGregor JPL Social Media Specialist and plea, respectfully, for the Curiostiy Twitter feed to advertise for the chance to upvote and see it produced.

Space exploration is a generational endeavor. It might seems trite to push for a Lego kit but I see it as another drop in the pool of motivation for future space explorers and scientists. "...maybe I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one...."

 

[BruiserBear]

Does anyone know when they are going to have the full res landing video up? I'm still sort of confused about the time table for this stuff. Do they only have a limited amount of bandwidth per day or something.

Of course they have a limited amount of bandwidth.


It would be like if you had a very limited internet connection. You would prioritize certain things before others. Do I download this Xbox game demo now, or do I watch this youtube video first? I only have enough bandwidth to do one or the other.

So the landing video is not a high priority, but they've said they expect it to be out in the next week or two.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

NASA is all over that, and all the little details. First need to come up with a workable life-support system, recycling water and waste, and whatnot.

If you have the inkling to contact NASA (and you have a Twitter account), I'd say push for the above Curiosity/MSL &Lander to be an offficial Lego kit. Contact Veronica McGregor JPL Social Media Specialist and plea, respectfully, for the Curiostiy Twitter feed to advertise for the chance to upvote and see it produced.

Space exploration is a generational endeavor. It might seems trite to push for a Lego kit but I see it as another drop in the pool of motivation for future space explorers and scientists. "...maybe I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one...."

I bought my son the space shuttle lego kit, am I part of the solution?

 

[Chichikov]

I see, that's why I was wondering if there was a way to cheat and get around the signal delay using something besides radio signals.

There's just no way to get around that, and there's no good reason to believe that there ever will be (outside wishful thinking).

You gotta learn to lead those rocks with your laser to compensate.

 

[Partial Gamification]

I bought my son the space shuttle lego kit, am I part of the solution?

Maybe, sounds like your son will be

[edit:]

There's just no way to get around that, and there's no good reason to believe that there ever will be (outside wishful thinking).

It is "wishful thinking" but two words that might prove a faster communication: quantum entanglement.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Of course they have a limited amount of bandwidth.


It would be like if you had a very limited internet connection. You would prioritize certain things before others. Do I download this Xbox game demo now, or do I watch this youtube video first? I only have enough bandwidth to do one or the other.

So the landing video is not a high priority, but they've said they expect it to be out in the next week or two.

Well, yeah. I had assumed that much. I was more wondering if anyone knows the specifics. Ok, so some time in the next two weeks.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Nukes or greenhouse factories seem doable. We're trying to prevent global warming and greenhouse emissions on earth and failing. Imagine what would happen if we purposely tried to increase gas emissions. Earth's atmosphere would start turning into a Venus atmosphere. They seem convinced that intentional global warming on Mars could make a significant difference in a reasonable amount of time.
.

I don't think we could find enough stuff to burn to make our atmosphere 96% CO2 (like venus). It represents just .04 percent of the Earth's atmosphere currently.

 

[Insane Metal]

Will there be any conference today? Any pictures, news? I'm so anxious, goddamnit.

 

[FACE]

Will there be any conference today? Any pictures, news? I'm so anxious, goddamnit.

Yup, 10 am PDT.

 

[Parch]

The lag is a hassle. Moving and working with the last two rovers seemed like such a tedious chore. Baby steps.

Check the environment. Decide what to do. Send the signal and wait. Hope the damn thing did what it was supposed to without problem. Check the environment again and wait for that signal. Start process all over again. When it comes to the actual movement they're working blind.

It's especially risky when dealing with the loose soil environment where you might send the thing into a hazard that they can't get out of. I remember one of those rovers getting stuck in a dune and taking a month to get out. They really did a fantastic job keeping those rovers out of trouble for so long.

 

[andycapps]

seems like it would be so much easier to build mars colonies underground, away from harmful radiation and using the bedrock itself as natural walls rather than build some massive biodome that you constantly worry about collapsing. Because the planet is geologically dead you don't have to worry about earthquakes...the only thing that could ruin your day would be a direct hit from a meteorite.

Not a lot of people would jump at the opportunity to live the rest of their lives underground away from the sun and nature. You'd have to build massive caves that could have their own artificial sunlights, ecosystems, etc for people not to go nuts.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Not a lot of people would jump at the opportunity to live the rest of their lives underground away from the sun and nature. You'd have to build massive caves that could have their own artificial sunlights, ecosystems, etc for people not to go nuts.

true but you could have some kind of mini dome at the entrance where people could come and have it be like a public park. But yes living your life underground would be difficult for some

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not a lot of people would jump at the opportunity to live the rest of their lives underground away from the sun and nature. You'd have to build massive caves that could have their own artificial sunlights, ecosystems, etc for people not to go nuts.

Well not the type you would want to send in space on entrust billion dollar equipment and highly explosive rocket fuel too.

Begs an interesting question on a space colony how would legal issues both domestic and international and governance be handled? I've always tried to find some white papers on the issue, but haven't.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

There's just no way to get around that, and there's no good reason to believe that there ever will be (outside wishful thinking).

You gotta learn to lead those rocks with your laser to compensate.

Quantum entanglement will be the answer to getting around the speed of light; mark my words!

 

[Insane Metal]

Yup, 10 am PDT.

Uhm... sorry I'm not familiar with time zones... how much time until that? :/

 

[BruiserBear]

Uhm... sorry I'm not familiar with time zones... how much time until that? :/

2 hours

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Quantum entanglement will be the answer to getting around the speed of light; mark my words!

if only we were photons

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Uhm... sorry I'm not familiar with time zones... how much time until that? :/

How can someone answer that question if they don't know what time zone you're in?

It's not that difficult; assuming you're in the U.S.:

 

[Chichikov]

It is "wishful thinking" but two words that might prove a faster communication: quantum entanglement.

Our current understanding of physics prohibits that.
And anything that breaks the light cone of causality will require a major re-working of physics.

But who knows.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

if only we were photons

For sending information. I really think in the future we will master the quantum, enabling instantaneous communication across anywhere in the universe. I was amazed when the video game Mass Effect actually touched on this if you ever ventured into the communication room.

I know I'm off topic here, but speaking of photons, I watched one of the most amazing TED episodes I've ever seen. We can now take photos at a trillion frames a second, enabling video of individual photons! The below video is beyond amazing.
http://www.ted.com/talks/ramesh_raskar_a_camera_that_takes_one_trillion_frames_per_second.html

 

[gutshot]

Quantum entanglement will be the answer to getting around the speed of light; mark my words!

So I went to the Wiki page of quantum entanglement and my brain pretty much exploded. Someone want to explain in layman's terms what quantum entanglement is and how it is going to help us break the light barrier?

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

So I went to the Wiki page of quantum entanglement and my brain pretty much exploded. Someone want to explain in layman's terms what quantum entanglement is and how it is going to help us break the light barrier?

Say you have a paritcle pair. When you change one, the other changes instantaneously, no matter the distance - there is some type of 'bond' linking them; they are quantumly entangled. This isn't science fiction, it's reality. We do not know how to master this yet though. I love physics so much; such an amazing area of study.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Begs an interesting question on a space colony how would legal issues both domestic and international and governance be handled? I've always tried to find some white papers on the issue, but haven't.

Space Law, one of the newest branches of the Law. The UN has documents on various space treaties and committees that are set-up to monitor and discuss space-exploration/exploitation. It is much like International Law, it is only as good as participants allow it to be.

Looking at International Business Law, it is clear that these regulations can strengthen confidence and ensure exchange. The best places, in the US, for Space Law are (arguably) George Washington University, Georgetown, and American University. Search around those places for published information and upcoming events. Being in DC they get some of the best speakers and lecturers. Tuition will cost you a couple hundred thousand dollars, so it is not a poor man's pursuit. It should be reiterated that the business-side of enacting policies will ikely be the most influential.

[edit:]

Our current understanding of physics prohibits that.
And anything that breaks the light cone of causality will require a major re-working of physics.

But who knows.

No, because the entanglement does not actually travel. There is no distance-traveled involved. The particles are entangled, so the light barrier is not broken. It is "instantaneous" information exchange and there is no physical distance to pass. It is being studied for a number of applications and communication is one. For now, it is fair to call it speculation.

 

[BruiserBear]

How can someone answer that question if they don't know what time zone you're in?

I seemed to figure it out.


He didn't ask "what time is that for me?". He said "how much longer til then".

 

[Chichikov]

No, because the entanglement does not actually travel. There is no distance-traveled involved. The particles are entangled, so the light barrier is not broken. It is "instantaneous" information exchange and there is no physical distance to pass. It is being studied for a number of applications and communication is one. For now, it is fair to call it speculation.

You still break causality - i.e. you can impact objects outside your light cone.
And again, that might be possible, but it requires a major reworking of physics.

For a little more formal look at the problem of using entanglement for faster than light communication, look at the no communication theory.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Scientist Discovers Plate Tectonics On Mars

For years, many scientists had thought that plate tectonics existed nowhere in our solar system but on Earth. Now, a UCLA scientist has discovered that the geological phenomenon, which involves the movement of huge crustal plates beneath a planet's surface, also exists on Mars.

"Mars is at a primitive stage of plate tectonics. It gives us a glimpse of how the early Earth may have looked and may help us understand how plate tectonics began on Earth," said An Yin, a UCLA professor of Earth and space sciences and the sole author of the new research.

Yin made the discovery during his analysis of satellite images from a NASA spacecraft known as THEMIS (Time History of Events and Macroscale Interactions during Substorms) and from the HIRISE (High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment) camera on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. He analyzed about 100 satellite images -- approximately a dozen were revealing of plate tectonics.

The surface of Mars contains the longest and deepest system of canyons in our solar system, known as Valles Marineris (Latin for Mariner Valleys and named for the Mariner 9 Mars orbiter of 1971-72, which discovered it). It is nearly 2,500 miles long -- about nine times longer than Earth's Grand Canyon. Scientists have wondered for four decades how it formed. Was it a big crack in Mars' shell that opened up?

"In the beginning, I did not expect plate tectonics, but the more I studied it, the more I realized Mars is so different from what other scientists anticipated," Yin said. "I saw that the idea that it is just a big crack that opened up is incorrect. It is really a plate boundary, with horizontal motion. That is kind of shocking, but the evidence is quite clear.

"The shell is broken and is moving horizontally over a long distance. It is very similar to the Earth's Dead Sea fault system, which has also opened up and is moving horizontally."

The two plates divided by Mars' Valles Marineris have moved approximately 93 miles horizontally relative to each other, Yin said. California's San Andreas Fault, which is over the intersection of two plates, has moved about twice as much -- but Earth is about twice the size of Mars, so Yin said they are comparable.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I seemed to figure it out.


He didn't ask "what time is that for me?". He said "how much longer til then".

Touche.

You still break causality - i.e. you can impact objects outside your light cone.
And again, that might be possible, but it requires a major reworking of physics.

For a little more formal look at the problem of using entanglement for faster than light communication, look at the no communication theory.

Thanks for this read; hadn't read this theory.