The thing is, there are multiple ways to be an elite point guard and Chris Paul is not an elite point guard in the way that Isiah Thomas was, but more in the way that John Stockton was. Stockton's career high, after all, was 34. Of course, apparently Bill doesn't believe that John Stockton is one of the top seven point guards so there's that I guess.
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NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
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The thing is, there are multiple ways to be an elite point guard and Chris Paul is not an elite point guard in the way that Isiah Thomas was, but more in the way that John Stockton was. Stockton's career high, after all, was 34. Of course, apparently Bill doesn't believe that John Stockton is one of the top seven point guards so there's that I guess.
"And I dont love the Ringz Culture, either. But there has to be a middle ground. If Chris Paul is really the Point God, why cant he carry the Clippers past the well-rounded Jazz when hes the best player in the series? Why isnt a top-3 center, some shooters, and home court enough to win one fricking round?
If Chris Paul is really the Point God, how should we explain his monumental collapse in Game 5 of the OKC series in 2014  the final 20 seconds, with the Clippers leading by two, when Westbrook stripped Paul for an indefensible turnover, then Paul fouled Westbrook shooting a 3, then Paul dribbled the potential game-saving possession off of his foot? Has a better player ever had a worse 20 seconds?
If Chris Paul is really the Point God, how did the Clippers blow a 19-point lead in Game 6 of the 2015 Rockets series to Josh Smith and Corey Brewer  AND WITH JAMES HARDEN SULKING ON THE BENCH? That wasnt just one of the worst playoff losses ever, its the single-biggest basketball choke job Ive ever witnessed in person. And I was there for Bird steals it over to DJ, he lays it in! This was worse."
Really good excerpt from the article and echoes my thoughts perfectly. The man just doesn't have what it takes to win. He's missing something which is why I never understand people putting him on all time lists.
Yeah, I guess I only see CP3 as great for flashes instead of a full-game effort. He doesn't put the fear of god in me life some of these other guys.
Here's Simmons top 12 for those who didn't click:
1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isiah
5. Curry
6. Nash
7. Paul
(With Curry climbing and Frazier, Kidd, Stockton, GP and Russ fighting for the next five spots.)
I would say he's slightly better, LeBron being the primary ballhandler most of the time has probably stunted his development in that area a bit but really no way to tell unless LeBron gets a major injury sometime. I think if the team was constructed around Irving instead of James he could do pretty well in the East. Of course this is all hypothetical.
John "Hardest motherfucker for Payton to guard" Stockton was great. That Al Pacino lookin bastard was great
So hypothetically if you were a gm and could construct a team around Irving what type of players would you go after?
Obviously with LeBron it's a pretty simple formula. Put 3 point shooters, defenders and one other playmaker around him and you're good.
With Kyrie, since he goes after his own shot so often and is a minus defender, it's tougher to know who would play well alongside him.
Game of Zones Episode 2
D'antoni's library is incredible. I watched twice and paused to read all the titles. Clock that counted to 7 seconds was a nice touch.
D'antoni's library is incredible. I watched twice and paused to read all the titles. Clock that counted to 7 seconds was a nice touch.
If we're ranking the all-time dirtiest players, Stockton and CP3 would be right at the top.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Raptors vs. Bucks game 6 and the NFL Draft. Damn gotta switch back and forth.
The problem with this is that Chris Paul's current legacy/ranking among people who aren't (a) extreme Boston homers and (b) bros with Steve Nash is right around the 5th best point guard of all time (Steph is such a wild card in these discussions right now; he might end up at No. 2 when it is all said and done) and that placement is the middle ground between hot take ringz culture and dispassionate stat nerdiness. If CP3 had a ring or two and someone tried to argue that Isiah was better they would get laughed out of the fucking room because Paul's stats across the board are better than Isiah's, and in many ways significantly so.
I would give him floor spacing, plus athletic defenders on the wings so you can hide him on defense, athletic bigs that can also pick and pop. Pretty much what the Cavs have currently except maybe replacing guys like Korver and Jefferson with more players like Shumpert and Smith.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
I also don't get how he's the GOAT leader in the NBA. Apparently Blake and him have issues, and I don't see players rallying up for him or some shit. He even goes off on teammates when they screw up as well.
As for Kyrie, it doesn't matter who is better but whose better for Cavs. He has proven that very few PGs would be better in his place considering the varying amount of things Bron offers.
That's the route I would go too. The problem though is LeBron makes those role playing shooters so much better because he keeps them involved and consistently gets them open looks. Kyrie doesn't really do that. I doubt Shumpert/Smith/Frye would shoot as well from 3 if it was mainly Irving creating for him.
Wall, however, was a big part in Otto Porter/Bradley Beal having career years from three with his superior passing ability. Being the best player on a good to great team requires you lifting the level of play of your role players. I'm not sure Kyrie has that in his game. But you're right, without LeBron suffering a major injury we'll probably never know that for sure.
That list is enough to invalidate the entire article. I mean what the fuck is that? Curry in the top 5 after 3 seasons of elite ball? Nash???? What a joke. Not to mention Cousy...
The Grapes of Shaq
Catch-22 Lobs
1984 Points
Infinite Rest (by Gregg Popovich)
A Brief History of Dimes
All Quiet in the Western Conference
War and Meta World Peace
The Selfish Jeanie (ouch)
For Whom the Raja Bell Tolls
The Darko Tower
A Song of Dunks and Fire
The Da Wight Howard Code
Anna Karinbound Plays
Slaughterhouse 5 second violation
Mobley-Dick
All The Sacramento Kings Men
That's one hell of a reading list
Depends how much emphasis Simmons is putting on "peak play" vs "career accomplishments". 2 MVPs and a title is already impressive.
Some shooters is being generous. Redick is the only good shooter aside from Paul on the roster, and he's had a poor series because the Jazz know he's the only shooter that will consistently hurt them. Crawford is incredibly inconsistent, Rivers is coming off an injury, and Speights has never been a good three point shooter. They also start a small forward that is extremely limited offensively. And the top 3 center you're referring to is also extremely limited offensively.
This is and always will be indefensible. It was bad. But we're talking about one really bad game in his playoff career.
I would say this was more of a choke job by Griffin than it was Paul. Blake has consistently not shown up in the 4th in his career and him remaining in the game cost the Clips. Paul consistently made the right play in the pick and roll and Blake missed all his wide open jumpers and then was afraid to shoot. Paul is the type of player that always makes the right play in the pick and roll, sometimes to his own detriment. Also don't forget Josh Smith for that quarter was a completely different player. If you never watched the NBA before and you're introduction to the league was that 4th quarter, you would think that Josh Smith is the greatest basketball player ever and a terrific 3 point shooter.
I think if you're making lists with guys from the past 50 years then it's dumb to go off peak play, since you're really only judging older players from career accomplishments. Will Curry be top 5 if he stays at this level of play? Sure, no debate from me there. I just think it's early to be putting him ahead of CP3 who has been the model of consistency for 12 seasons and never had a surrounding cast like most of these guys.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
Powell!!
DerangedHermit
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MetalFearSolid
Banned
Keep it going Raptors!
panthapanda
Member
Let's say LeBron gets knocked out before the finals or something.
What do you guys think he'll do to improve the team? Love would probably be the first to go along with Tristan.
What do you guys think he'll do to improve the team? Love would probably be the first to go along with Tristan.
Gully State
Member
A lot of them are names of previous GameOfZones episodes
Here's a bigger list that a guy on reddit wrote down
LOL...this must've been a fun brainstorming session.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Kyrie is the far more offensively gifted player. But if Kyrie isn't scoring he isnt doing much of anything.
Before Lebron showed up Kyrie couldnt lead a team to a none embarassing record. Conley as is right now and not through their whole careers, is the better point guard.
Kyrie may be the biggest star with the least responsibility I have seen in some time. Kevin Love takes the blame for everything even though his responsibilies are greater. Kyrie is a point guard who isnt even expected to be the primary ball handler. Kyrie scores and all is forgiven.
Conley very rarely makes mistakes. Basketball IQ is great. Is actually a very good defender. Carries a scoring load for his team. He doesnt turn the ball over. We arent talking about Conley compared to Steph here where its obvious Steph is better in almost every area.
Conley>Kyrie
Kyrie is the most overated star imo.
MetalFearSolid
Banned
LET'S GO! RAPTORS FINISH THIS OFF.
Raps got this.
Sign Blake Griffin
BigJonsson
Member
Holy crap, I'm not gonna say it's over but 
Lionel Richie
Member
Raptors could legit win if Derozan and Lowry both have a good series.
BigJonsson
Member
The series really turned around after that ugly Game 3 blowout. The Bucks continuing blitzing the Pn, but the Raptors' spacing has greatly improved since the first two games. Their inexperience is showing but I really like their team going forward. They should be a force through the next few seasons. It's nice to see the Raptors show some killer instinct that was severely lacking in past years. Next round should be competitive.
BigJonsson
Member
Uh oh
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