-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NBA 2017 Playoffs |OT| WE DID IT
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
- Status
beat
Member
johancruijff
Banned
Pop gives me life
oof
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Part of me likes the idea of a rested, but never once challenged Warriors team going to the finals over a battered but had their "oh shit this won't be a free chip" moment already. I'm not really sure what the better scenario for them losing is.
PadWarrior
Member
Ouch!
I don't understand the but Bruce Bowen defense. Kawhi is a generation removed from Bowen, is Pop hypocritical in his response? Yes. Is his response still 100% valid? Yes. Bruce Bowen doesn't make what Zaza did any less dangerous or unsportsmanlike. A genuinely nice guy is out of the playoffs and people are like yeah but that guy from a decade ago was dirty and wore the same jersey.
I don't really know what you expect them to do. I'm fine with them making this a flagrant foul, but there's really no way to assess intent.
Magic there to apply pressure in person? I'm most looking forward to the Embiid process pop off if the Sixers or Kings pick move into the top 3.
I fear Joel Embiid and Devin Booker.
The potential for Lakers fans having to look at the new brains of the operation Magic Johnson as the Lakers have 2 of their next 3 first round picks slip through their fingers has the potential to be amazing.
my name is ed
Banned
Damn, this could make for good trolling material if the Warriors wanted to.
Btw Fuck Bruce Bowen
beat
Member
Kawhi is a generation removed, but Pop coached Bowen. There may have been other dirty players over the years, but Bowen was one of the dirtiest of his generation and he played for the same team and coach that benefited from his dirty plays (and the Horry hip check) that's currently feeling the hit from Zaza's risky closeout.
Look, I'll even agree that what Zaza did was risky. Closeouts are inherently risky. So is diving for loose balls. But for Pop to get furious about dangerous undercuts when he straight up pretended Bowen's deliberate, 1000x shadier undercuts* weren't dirty... it's hard to take.
Now, if we were talking about say, Detroit instead of the Spurs, where there's little to no continuity from 10-20 years ago, then yeah, it would just be about the team. (Which is still something because the fans haven't turned over as fast, and again, fans will almost always excuse their guy.) But this is the same coach.
* again, Bowen slid his foot underneath from a standing position, not a running or jumping closeout. Multiple times.
"The people who cry about [my guy not giving shooters room to land] are just frustrated about having to go against [my guy]" - anonymous future HOF coach
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Popovich should go into politics with the way he displays such rampant hypocrisy.
I think people are just looking for consistency within the league, coaches, refs, etc. I'm a Warriors fan and I wont't defend the play from Zaza. He absolutely deserves criticism. I would've much rather seen Kawhi stay in the game and the Warriors lose than him get injured and the Warriors win.
The problem is the hyperbole driven narratives that always seem to surround this league and this team. Curry regularly falls on 3's because guys get in his landing space, he's just gotten used to it and adjusts his landing zone. It even happened a few times last night. But the narrative is "oh Curry has weak ankles so he flops all the time." I mean sure, that's true on some plays, but how about actually looking at his landing space and why he feels the need to tumble to the ground instead of sticking the landing with his feet? Why not judge those on a play-by-play basis instead of coming to some broad conclusion about it that discredits any potential foul that may be occurring?
I think it should be a Flagrant 1, and I hope the league reviews and changes the rules, but it needs to be enforced regardless of whether there is an injury on the play or not. If Kawhi doesn't get hurt on that play, nobody would be saying shit about it today, because it happens so regularly. There needs to be consistency in calling the foul, and it should consistently be considered a Flagrant.
The problem is the hyperbole driven narratives that always seem to surround this league and this team. Curry regularly falls on 3's because guys get in his landing space, he's just gotten used to it and adjusts his landing zone. It even happened a few times last night. But the narrative is "oh Curry has weak ankles so he flops all the time." I mean sure, that's true on some plays, but how about actually looking at his landing space and why he feels the need to tumble to the ground instead of sticking the landing with his feet? Why not judge those on a play-by-play basis instead of coming to some broad conclusion about it that discredits any potential foul that may be occurring?
I think it should be a Flagrant 1, and I hope the league reviews and changes the rules, but it needs to be enforced regardless of whether there is an injury on the play or not. If Kawhi doesn't get hurt on that play, nobody would be saying shit about it today, because it happens so regularly. There needs to be consistency in calling the foul, and it should consistently be considered a Flagrant.
friskykillface
Banned
Ainge should be going to the draft lottery
Or, Bird because Bird is coming home to Boston
Ainge gonna be shook for two straight days if they lose
NBA players have big ass feet, I doubt they know where their foot will land half the time
I'll give Zaza a slight pass but if it happens again he's a dirty player.
Spurs already took out Klay , so who's next
Or, Bird because Bird is coming home to Boston
I know he's from Indiana
Ainge gonna be shook for two straight days if they lose
NBA players have big ass feet, I doubt they know where their foot will land half the time
I'll give Zaza a slight pass but if it happens again he's a dirty player.
Spurs already took out Klay , so who's next
I totally agree. I have no issue with it being a flagrant foul. You can't legislate on injury or intent though. I don't think this was intentional per se, but it's reasonable to expect players to control their body to not put other players in jeopardy.
Not relevant on this play, but shooters should be expected to keep their vertical space as well. Already having nightmares about Harden somehow drawing flagrant fouls in next year's playoff.
metalslimer
Member
Those creating contact 3s need to be changed into offensive fouls. Change those two and I would be much happier next season.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Pop kept that 100.
Hopefully Kawhi is at least 75% on Saturday. That will be enough to give them a shot.
The argument about intent is just clouding the issue. It doesn't matter if Zaza made that move intentionally. He committed a foul and it didn't get called. It so happens this time it ended up in an injury to a high profile player. The rage is misdirected because even if the NBA suspended Zaza it wouldn't change anything. Blame him and let him be the scapegoat but that's not going to prevent this from happening again.
What will change things is if the officials start calling these fouls more consistently. If the officials did that then players would change their behavior just as they do with other rule changes. Same goes for the illegal screens and other fouls that happen all the time and never get called.
It's probably incredibly difficult to call in real time from a ref's perspective. They have to watch the hands/arms for contact and then also watch the feet as well.
PadWarrior
Member
They need another ref who lies on his belly all game to watch players feet. Might get more travels called too.
He was called for the foul and Kawhi shot free-throws. The problem is it isn't considered a flagrant foul and it should be. Calling it a flagrant and being more consistent with calling it would prevent players from doing it regularly.
Fair and balanced head coaches is for the birds!
Pop reports, YOU decide!
hydragonwarrior
Member
WWE x NBA merger incoming?
Ah I didn't even remember him shooting free throws. You're right it should be a flagrant if likely to inflict injury, just like smacking someone in the head. Not sure how you call it though.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Oh shit, and then the heel turn:
Kawhi joins Golden State.
Kawhi joins Golden State.
I think the answer is you call it whenever you see someones foot/body in the landing space of the shooter, regardless of whether the shooter then makes contact with the defender, and it's always called as a flagrant. That would stop players right quick if they're regularly getting called for it. The problem is that the refs just don't have enough eyes on the court to be looking down low, as they're always (understandably) looking at the shooters motion to see if there's contact up top.
A lot of the current problems with the NBA could be fixed with more refs on the floor. I was listening to the radio awhile back and some data analytics guy was making the argument that refs should be assigned to one side of the floor, and made the perfectly reasonable argument that we shouldn't expect 40-50 year old refs to be running with NBA players for an entire game. Makes a lot of sense to me.
True Savior
Member
Joel Anthony is about to help Lebron again.
PadWarrior
Member
David Lee a dirty player?
He may want revenge for losing his starting spot.
I'm playing around, don't think he'd do that
PadWarrior
Member
LOL ah. Yeah he never struck me as that type of guy.
Definitely feels like it, this is the guy who coached Bowen after all. Joel Anthony is still on the roster not doing very much so...
But seriously, Pop's comments aren't really anything new or unexpected. Its not so much he's hypocritical (it is) but he's doing it more so to get the team fired up. I mean, he doesn't get chucked from two games a year for no reason.
beat
Member
Imagine how unstoppable Steph could be if defenders gave him landing room.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
What, no way Lee would ever do that. Dude is a friend and a huge fan of Steph. Someone else though, yeah I wouldn't doubt it. LMA literally did it in the same guy to Steph. Common practice or the usual I'm contesting and then hitting you on the way down after you shoot.
Spurs are gonna be rough next game.
Lee is playing the long game to get revenge for this dirty Curry play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaENn-7t_hk
friskykillface
Banned
If Thomas loses the game by doing another dumbass turnover he's gone before next season
PadWarrior
Member
Man they look so young lol.
darkwing-buck
Member
A few more years and we'll be able to move on from potato quality rookie videos.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
While I love Pop, he really shouldn't go off on this considering he's told Bowen to continue defending like he always does when the league threatened to suspend him for jumping underneath Stevie Francis on a jump shot. Just opens up the hypocrisy argument that much easier.
Pop's hypocrisy is rich, maybe he really should run for office. Meanwhile, Warriors' reddit is filled with clips like this from last night, everyone else is outraged(but not at any other big men that close out pell mell, hi Horford) and the world keeps turning.
Lionel Richie
Member
Yeah he isn't the guy to go for Zaza much like Draymond wasn't the guy to call out Olynyk.
I don't really think past reputations should really matter here. Despite the whataboutisms, they're both still completely correct. Zaza is still a less skilled Laimbeer at this point and Olynyk is still a dirty player.
And really, there's ulterior motives to their actions. Draymond is busy creating drama/taking shots at the Cavs/Eastern Conference and Pop is busy standing up for Kawhi and his team. Both people aren't unaware of what they're doing and the optics of their actions.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll